If thoughts create everything...

[Sam988]

According to Max's and other's point of view about SR, whatever we think of, we create. I can't stop thinking about the chicken and egg metaphor when i think that how does a baby that just came to the world chooses where to be born, in whicn family to be born, how is his body going to look like, and so on.
In short, how does a baby create his reality? And what about babies that die soon after they've been born? How the hell did they choose that?


This is just one of the many SR theory (the "solipsism" (http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-vs-solipsism/) view) inconsistences. To assume that we create EVERYTHING around us is just megalomaniacal and nonsensical.

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Sam988

According to Max's and other's point of view about SR, whatever we think of, we create. I can't stop thinking about the chicken and egg metaphor when i think that how does a baby that just came to the world chooses where to be born, in whicn family to be born, how is his body going to look like, and so on.
In short, how does a baby create his reality? And what about babies that die soon after they've been born? How the hell did they choose that?


This is just one of the many SR theory (the "solipsism" (http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-vs-solipsism/) view) inconsistences. To assume that we create EVERYTHING around us is just megalomaniacal and nonsensical.

According to SR, you are the only conscious one. Everything and everyone outside of self is a projection or image of your thoughts/beliefs. This is how everything is your creation. You were the only one "Born" into this reality, and even that is an illusion.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by torilink

According to SR, you are the only conscious one. Everything and everyone outside of self is a projection or image of your thoughts/beliefs. This is how everything is your creation. You were the only one "Born" into this reality, and even that is an illusion.

When did i create it? Before i was born? The only way this SR theory could make sense is that i'm a god, that created everything and then decided to become a simple human inside all this huge creation of mine.

Hey sounds like i'm jesus. Even though the theory sounds cool, and here's where i wanted to get on my arguments, doesn't it sound too much like a megalomaniacal stuff?

The chances that this theory is just a megalomaniacal self delusional thought are much greater than the possiblity of it ( of me really being god, and having decided to create a huge world just to enter it as an avatar, forget about my divine nature, and have some fun) being true.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Sam988

According to Max's and other's point of view about SR, whatever we think of, we create. I can't stop thinking about the chicken and egg metaphor when i think that how does a baby that just came to the world chooses where to be born, in whicn family to be born, how is his body going to look like, and so on.

That is not SR, in SR there are no baby's being born all over the world, there are only babies being born within your present moment awareness.

In short, how does a baby create his reality? And what about babies that die soon after they've been born? How the hell did they choose that?

There is no 'they' there is no one outside of your present moment awareness.

To assume that we create EVERYTHING around us is just megalomaniacal and nonsensical.

Only if you believe that the center of existance is your physical mind/body. IN SR you are not a mind/body, you are the container in which everything (in present moment awareness) exists including your own mind/body.

SR is an identity shift, to empower creativity.

Originally Posted by Sam988

When did i create it? Before i was born? The only way this SR theory could make sense is that i'm a god, that created everything and then decided to become a simple human inside all this huge creation of mine.

Essential that's SR, but the word god implies religion and a being sitting somewhere on a throne. I prefer the term Energy Being rather than god or conscsiousness.

Hey sounds like i'm jesus. Even though the theory sounds cool, and here's where i wanted to get on my arguments, doesn't it sound too much like a megalomaniacal stuff?

No, you're still viewing the idea form the limited singular person that you consider you are. You are as much a door, frog, other person, sky as you are the body you seem to have the best control over.

The chances that this theory is just a megalomaniacal self delusional thought are much greater than the possiblity of it ( of me really being god, and having decided to create a huge world just to enter it as an avatar, forget about my divine nature, and have some fun) being true.

Then don't subscribe to it. Many people like the basic idea of SR, but don't want the responsibility or the perception of self, which considered from the limited human POV is lonliness, which is actually the opposite of a true sense of SR.

SR is the realisation that everything in your awareness is you and that means everything is wonderful because you would never create anything that wasn't. Yes you may create some challenging stuff to test the boundries of your ability to control what you create, but the whole concept is grounded in your desire for experience.

Max

[Sam988]

Ok Max, i get your theory. There's no baby being born, there's nothing outside what i create. I'm the container where everything exists. I'm god, or as you call it, the energy being. So all the creativity to create such a complex and huge universe/world comes from me.

So i'm an infinite being, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. I just don't know it. I'm in an illusion. I wonder why i decided to give away all my powers and wisdom and live as an ignorant. As i said before, i can't help but think that according to SR i was probably bored and decided to have some fun as someone normal.

Originally Posted by Max Power

SR is an identity shift, to empower creativity.

This is what caught my eyes. So SR empowers creativity? It rather empowers daydreaming, seriously.



I would rather believe in a theory that includes planning and taking action, instead of waiting for "divine/delivered-by-the-universe signals" to take some action. We can always and everywhere find "signals" to take action, all it takes is a bit of wishful thinking and some interpretation of events filtered by our subconscious to match that which we're searching for. So waiting for something to tell us when to take acton isn't the best way to go (and even worse, there's a huge risk that we may screw things up by making bad/risky decisions just because we thought that they were inspired by the Universe so they couldn't go wrong).

Rather, we must know where we want to get, make a plan to get there, and follow it through, making some changes to the plan as we walk our way to achieve the goal.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Sam988

This is what caught my eyes. So SR empowers creativity? It rather empowers daydreaming, seriously.

That is your perception, so it's your reality.

I would rather believe in a theory that includes planning and taking action, instead of waiting for "divine/delivered-by-the-universe signals" to take some action. .

Again, that is your perception, so it's your reality, but you're confusing SR with the universe 'out there' in SR there is no out there.

Make a plan, work, take action, work some more, fail, suffer, plan again, work, effort, plan, work, struggle, plan, work, effort.

If you like that, then good luck I'm too lazy for that.

Work, effort and struggle are experienced conditions to sense self worth, I can still feel very worthy sitting on my ass doing nothing, but I'm not doing nothing, I'm creating everything. I may desire to sense the experience of hard work, struggle, toil and effort, but it's hardly a requirement to sense self worth.

Max

[torilink]

Originally Posted by Sam988

When did i create it? Before i was born? The only way this SR theory could make sense is that i'm a god, that created everything and then decided to become a simple human inside all this huge creation of mine.

according to SR, it is created in the moment.

it isn't that everything was created and then I decided to step into it - it is I AM and then I imagine/create everything I PERCEIVE is outside of me. of course nothing is outside of "Me"/consciousness it is all contained within it.

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Max Power

That is your perception, so it's your reality.



Again, that is your perception, so it's your reality, but you're confusing SR with the universe 'out there' in SR there is no out there.

Make a plan, work, take action, work some more, fail, suffer, plan again, work, effort, plan, work, struggle, plan, work, effort.

If you like that, then good luck I'm too lazy for that.

Work, effort and struggle are experienced conditions to sense self worth, I can still feel very worthy sitting on my ass doing nothing, but I'm not doing nothing, I'm creating everything. I may desire to sense the experience of hard work, struggle, toil and effort, but it's hardly a requirement to sense self worth.

Max

You say it as if hard work and planning and going through it was the "hard way" to success. I'm aware that whatever i say or argument to be the reality you'll just shoot back at me a "then that is your reality", so i will just point out some more things.



In some other thread, i've displayed this link (Secrets Of The Self-Made 2007 - Forbes.com) where most of the billionaires there said that to get where they got, they needed to work hard.
Then most of you said that their kind of hard work is different from most people. But how do you know it? They worked very hard, but with a purpose. The difference is the mindset; the billionaires had the mindset of wealthy people, they were optimistic and persistent, and didn't have any moral issue with getting wealthy, while most people who work hard and get nowhere, have the mindset of "working hard to pay the bills, have a nice family, stay in the status quo, and live a decent and honest life, without never getting greedy or wanting much money, because rich people are sad in the inside and money is the root of all evil". No wonder they get nowhere...



Money won't grow on trees, the people who are billionaires can testify it better than anyone. And i prefer to trust on what the billionaires said than to trust what a bunch of self-proclaimed successful folks say in a forum where i know no one's real life or if what they claim is really true and not distorted so that they can prove their points.

[ExploringTheMatrix]

Money won't grow on trees, the people who are billionaires can testify it better than anyone. And i prefer to trust on what the billionaires said than to trust what a bunch of self-proclaimed successful folks say in a forum where i know no one's real life or if what they claim is really true and not distorted so that they can prove their points.

The difficulty you're seeing is coming from the viewpoint that you're holding. When you have the view that getting money is hard, your attention is going to be on that instead of noticing the opportunities for easy wealth creation that are out there. I notice that as soon as I start to focus on making money, ideas start showing up in my head and I start to brighten up and see the possibilities.

That's not to say that the money is suddenly going to fall from the sky and drop into your lap. To manifest money that quickly you're going to have to remove an enormous amount of limiting beliefs. But it can be fairly effortless.

The other thing is that past a certain point, most of the people here aren't really that interested in making billions of dollars. I'd imagine that most of the billionaires accumulated that much money because they really liked playing the money game and were compelled to beat everybody else, they really liked what they were doing, or had huge amounts of greed. Past a certain point, numbers stop mattering much - after all what's the difference between $2 million and $3 million. Once I have a good amount of money, I want to get busy spending it.

A couple instances I can think of that required minimal effort to generate large amount of wealth:

The Million Dollar Homepage - Own a piece of internet history!
Can't imagine that took more than a month's worth of work.

one red paperclip
A guy traded a paperclip into a $300,000 house in 13 trades. Plus he ended up with a great story that he could use to sell books and make more money.

Marc Allen - author and inspirational speaker on wealth creation and personal fulfillment
He works 20 hours a week and created a million dollar fortune while taking it easy.

[cylon]

The people that said they had to work very hard to get successful, had to do that. The people that said they didn't need to work hard, needed to do that.

Which one is lying?

[Sam988]

ExploringTheMatrix, i don't think that money is hard to get, but i think that anyone willing to get it must be willing to work a lot towards getting it.

Billionaires do have winner mindsets, but that alone won't bring them billions. They were willing to work a lot, and that's what they did.


About the examples you've shown of people who didn't work much and accumulated some good money, for every one of these that make it, there are other thousands who sit without taking any action and think that they will be like these successful people. You take these examples as if anyone who had the mindset that he can accumulate wealth virtually without working would make it. It's like taking examples of the NBA players that made it to millions and saying that any poor kid in a ghetto who starts playing basketball will become an NBA millionaire player, when it's just not going to happen; the huge majority of these once dreaming kids will live in poverty for their entire lives.




cylon, i didn't get your point. Can you rephrase your argument to make it better understandable?

[cylon]

More of a riddle. One successful person got there through "hard work". Another successful person got there by "going with the flow".

Both intendended to be successful at the outset. Which one of the two is being dishonest?

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by cylon

More of a riddle. One successful person got there through "hard work". Another successful person got there by "going with the flow".

Both intendended to be successful at the outset. Which one of the two is being dishonest?

No one is being dishonest. If you can get to be very wealthy by "going with the flow", GREAT; i have no problem with that watsoever. I actually admire such people, i have no problem with one getting rich easily.

What i'm questioning is the actual possibility of one getting rich as quickly just by having the mindset that he will make it easily, since evidences show that very few of those who believe they will make it easily actually make it.

Also, if there was a way to get rich other than working a lot, i'd be the firts to go for it, because i have no moral issues with that, i really have none. But it's not as easy as some people make it sound. There's unfortunately a lot of work involved for most of the time.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Billionaires do have winner mindsets, but that alone won't bring them billions. They were willing to work a lot, and that's what they did.

You mean self-created billionaires. A few of these billionaire were born into it because their parents were self-created billionaires.

Actually, come to think of it, one of these "self-created" billionaire actually didn't work much at all at creating it. He co-founded Microsoft with Bill Gates and after a very few short years, he quit. But he kept his stock and simply by keeping his stock over the years while he did other stuff, he became a billionaire thanks to Bill Gates growing the company tremendously

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Sam988

....i have no moral issues with that, i really have none. But it's not as easy as some people make it sound. There's unfortunately a lot of work involved for most of the time.

Cool. Just curious, since this is a mindset you don't hold true for yourself, why are you even here? Not to be rude, you're obviously here for a reason.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I used to enjoy debating "believers" as well. I wouldn't be here (IM forum) if I hadn't had that experience. There were unresolved issues for me, that had to be "played out" in the context of Atheist vs. Christian™.

What is it about this stuff that is drawing you here?

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by cylon

Cool. Just curious, since this is a mindset you don't hold true for yourself, why are you even here? Not to be rude, you're obviously here for a reason.

Everything has an opposite.

Life is the opposite of self.

Sammy is your opposite, the people who offer up a opposing opinion are you moving yourself closer to the truth, your truth. They are a requirement, but they never last, because as you move forward, higher, the opposition fades away.

Do you remember the person here who opposed within the IM topic the most?? Where is that person?.........

Max

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Do you remember the person here who opposed within the IM topic the most?? Where is that person?.........

Max

Being banned somewhere else?

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by cylon

Cool. Just curious, since this is a mindset you don't hold true for yourself, why are you even here? Not to be rude, you're obviously here for a reason.

Why i'm here? That's a good question, i try to keep myself away from this IM forum since there's nothing for me here but since i love the other forums i end up taking some looks at this one and i see so many topics and stuff about SR that i don't agree with, and i feel such an urge to debate it and argue that i sometimes post stuff here like i'm doing now.

Originally Posted by Max Power

Everything has an opposite.

Life is the opposite of self.

Sammy is your opposite, the people who offer up a opposing opinion are you moving yourself closer to the truth, your truth. They are a requirement, but they never last, because as you move forward, higher, the opposition fades away.

And some people buy this kind of stuff.... amazing.

Originally Posted by Max Power

Do you remember the person here who opposed within the IM topic the most?? Where is that person?.........

Ahh i knew it was you the one behind shamou's banishment you evil filthy god. Please don't manifest my banishment too

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I try to keep myself away from this IM forum since there's nothing for me here ....

But you CAN'T STAY AWAY!!

Something about IM bugs you, maybe you'll work that out here.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

But you CAN'T STAY AWAY!!

Something about IM bugs you, maybe you'll work that out here.

I can relate; it's just like me and Jesus.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I can't stop thinking about the chicken and egg metaphor when i think that how does a baby that just came to the world chooses where to be born, in whicn family to be born, how is his body going to look like, and so on.
In short, how does a baby create his reality? And what about babies that die soon after they've been born? How the hell did they choose that?

It's not as if the questions haven't been asked before. You could try reading Abraham Hicks, among others.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

It's not as if the questions haven't been asked before. You could try reading Abraham Hicks, among others.

Not to mention the innumerable times the same questions have been asked and discussed and mulled over right here in these forums over the past year. Same SR questions keep coming up over and over again -- "well, what about the people in Botswana? Are STARVING people creating their own reality?"

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Angela

I can relate; it's just like me and Jesus.

I can relate too, for a couple years it was my sole purpose to disprove Christianity to anyone who would listen. Then I got to the point that I wasn't afraid of Hell anymore, because after years, I finally accepted deep down, that no loving god could send his children to Hell. At that point, I had no need to debate Christians anymore. But I actually had to go through that, in order to be able to walk away from it for good. Now I'm here.

[munish]

Originally Posted by Sam988

According to Max's and other's point of view about SR, whatever we think of, we create. I can't stop thinking about the chicken and egg metaphor when i think that how does a baby that just came to the world chooses where to be born, in whicn family to be born, how is his body going to look like, and so on.
In short, how does a baby create his reality? And what about babies that die soon after they've been born? How the hell did they choose that?


This is just one of the many SR theory (the "solipsism" (http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-vs-solipsism/) view) inconsistences. To assume that we create EVERYTHING around us is just megalomaniacal and nonsensical.

If you begin from an OR perspective, then you would say they cannot both coexist. -S.P.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...ercoming-fear/

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Sam988

And some people buy this kind of stuff.... amazing.

No one buys anything, one being made of energy discovers the truth.

Ahh i knew it was you the one behind shamou's banishment you evil filthy god. Please don't manifest my banishment too

Shampou's ceasation was more easier than I thought but everything has an opposite, so you'll be around in one form or another I'm sure

Max

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by cylon

But you CAN'T STAY AWAY!!

Something about IM bugs you, maybe you'll work that out here.

Originally Posted by cylon

I can relate too, for a couple years it was my sole purpose to disprove Christianity to anyone who would listen. Then I got to the point that I wasn't afraid of Hell anymore, because after years, I finally accepted deep down, that no loving god could send his children to Hell. At that point, I had no need to debate Christians anymore. But I actually had to go through that, in order to be able to walk away from it for good. Now I'm here.

cylon, it seems that you're judging me based on your experience. Just because you had to argue with every christian because deep down you were afraid that they were right doesn't mean that everybody is like that...

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Sam988

Just because you had to argue with every christian because deep down you were afraid that they were right

Opposition isn't always fear, but a path to finding the truth. Everything has an opposite to realise what it is.

Max

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Sam988

cylon, it seems that you're judging me based on your experience. Just because you had to argue with every christian because deep down you were afraid that they were right doesn't mean that everybody is like that...

I'm not judging you. But some of your posting reminds me of the way I used to be, so I can relate to it.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Opposition isn't always fear, but a path to finding the truth. Everything has an opposite to realise what it is.

Max

Yeah, it started as fear but at the same time it didn't make sense for me, so I had to "get to the bottom of it".