All thoughts, including good ones, are useless

[Cantando]

LoA may have some value in daily life - you have a negative thought, so you replace it with a positive one and you feel a bit better for a while. That's all well and good. But, how lasting is that? Isn't the negative thought still there, lurking in the background, ready to spring into your attention again?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that all teachings about thoughts leading to the manifestation of things in reality are simply incorrect.

What if you have had a traumatic, childhood experience which you cannot remember? You go about your day generally feeling cr*p, but you don't know why. You manage to generate a good feeling thought, using your will power, but it soon fades and you are back to feeling cr*p. There is no specific negative thought, just a lousy, overall state.

I'm coming round to thinking that thoughts, whether poitive or negative, don't really matter
I don't believe they create anything. If I focus on a thought of having a big house, it doesn't mean I'll get one. If I focus on a thought of being sick tomorrow, it doesn't mean I will be. I may allow thoughts to colour my view of reality, but it doesn't mean things are going to start popping up in front of my eyes, no matter how hard I focus on a thought. A thought is a just thought - you create it in your mind and it has a bit of energy and significance attached to it. That's all it is. It doesn't become real in front of you (unless you are hallucinating).

If you want to manifest anything, thought doesn't have to come into it. All you have to do is state the initial desire to yourself and it is answered. You then allow it to manifest by releasing all resistance. All thoughts are resistance - whether good or bad. If you meditate and ignore all thoughts, you will connect with source. Once that happens, the allowing begins. You don't have to think or worry about it. Thinking nice, happy thoughts during meditation is just as much an obstacle to connecting with source as thinking sad, depressing ones. You are actually just diverting your focus and attention from the flow of source energy, and thus preventing the manifestation.

If you are spending a lot of time trying to think nice, happy thoughts and wondering why you are still not manifesting your desires, then that is the reason. You are just daydreaming.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Cantando

All thoughts are resistance - whether good or bad.

Well then, I guess you are nothing but resistance today, Cantando!

[cdn2wheeler]

Cantando actually has a point.

Thoughts alone are only one part of the process of attraction. They're important, but thoughts removed from action are just daydreams.

From where I sit, the Law of Attraction requires thought AND action. Thoughts without actions are meaningless. Actions without thoughts are chaos.

[cylon]

Thoughts ARE actions though. CD do you have any resistance yourself, any feeligs of guilt that would come from just getting the good stuff without taking any outward action? As hard for it was for ME to accept, things are coming TOWARDS me, I'm not moving towards them. The action tends to be just acknowledging what's happened.

At least for my self, I had a lot of resistance, because I thought it was too good to be true, but the more I relax, the more things flow to me, with me literally doing nothing. Yes I still take action, but it's about as difficult as making my bed or getting a shower in the morning. Do you really consider that "action"? Those are just things you do without thinking. Effortless.

Of course I am still discovering this, and sometimes my mind says "work HARD!!!" and there's also the guilt that comes from getting what you want without torturing yourself (enough torture equals permission from yourself to claim part of what you want.... until the next thing comes up)

but when I don't work "hard", more things happen. That's the paradox.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well then, I guess you are nothing but resistance today, Cantando!

That's exactly right!
While I'm meditating and not thinking of the forum, I feel great. Then I get this negative urge to post something and then resistance (the know-all, critical, judgemental, self-proclaimed teacher and bore) takes over!

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by cylon

Thoughts ARE actions though. CD do you have any resistance yourself, any feeligs of guilt that would come from just getting the good stuff without taking any outward action? As hard for it was for ME to accept, things are coming TOWARDS me, I'm not moving towards them. The action tends to be just acknowledging what's happened.

That's an excellent observation because it goes directly to the heart of my current bias; that is, a rammed-in philosophy of my tender years that the only way to generate monumental wealth was through monumental effort.

Good point. Re-examining belief systems isn't something that comes easily, at least to me. Thanks for the prod.

[cylon]

Cool. I can tell a change in myself just from a couple months ago. For whatever reason people kept talking about the lottery, and as I imagined winning the lottery, it was horrible. I could see all my friends getting jealous, money getting away from me, not to mention me thinking that I would "abandon" the career I have, and I guess on top of all that, the feeling that I would have to explain myself to everyone. "Yeah, I'm rich now but don't worry, I'm still a good person, I still know what it's like to have to bust your ass working hard to make it in the world, you can still relate to me though", just an endless circle of thoughts like that.

I don't actually THINK about the lottery, but I am more comfortable in my mind now, of having a much larger income with little effort, becausue I have allowed other manifestations in my life, and they feel good and natural, so having more money should feel good, and natural as well. And there's a lot of it.

[Anagogy]

Originally Posted by Cantando

If you want to manifest anything, thought doesn't have to come into it. All you have to do is state the initial desire to yourself and it is answered. You then allow it to manifest by releasing all resistance. All thoughts are resistance - whether good or bad. If you meditate and ignore all thoughts, you will connect with source. Once that happens, the allowing begins. You don't have to think or worry about it. Thinking nice, happy thoughts during meditation is just as much an obstacle to connecting with source as thinking sad, depressing ones. You are actually just diverting your focus and attention from the flow of source energy, and thus preventing the manifestation.

In Ask and it is Given, Abraham explains that they recommend meditation because for most people it is easier to cease thought rather than think positively about their goals. When you meditate, your vibration naturally rises, because you aren't offering negative thought, and your natural state is well being. They offer the analogy of a cork that is held under water, when you cease thought, the cork is let go and naturally rises to the surface.

But I have to disagree with you about positive thought being resistance though .

[cylon]

Another way is what is in Tolle's book, the Power of NOW, which I am practicing. That is to not deny the thought, positive or negative, but to just observe it without judgement. In this way your mind still takes it's "natural course" but as you observe, you realize that your thoughts aren't you, just something that is happening IN you. As I do this, I notice the thoughts kind of stop and I'm back in the moment, where I belong.

[Angela]

cdn, I believe you're right, thoughts are inherently meaningless (the only meaning they have is the meaning we give them), but thoughts are certainly not useless, as Cantando proclaims.

Deliberate thought changes the world, because it changes the way we feel. The way we feel influences the actions we take, wouldn't you agree? And as cylon mentioned, thinking is an action. Deliberate thinking is a dynamic, vital action.

Why would we see dynamic vital action as useless?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

cdn, I believe you're right, thoughts are inherently meaningless (the only meaning they have is the meaning we give them), but thoughts are certainly not useless, as Cantando proclaims.

Deliberate thought changes the world, because it changes the way we feel. The way we feel influences the actions we take, wouldn't you agree? And as cylon mentioned, thinking is an action. Deliberate thinking is a dynamic, vital action.

Why would we see dynamic vital action as useless?

In the context of my thread, I meant that thoughts are useless as they get in the way of connecting to source (especially during meditation), where allowing can take place of one's desires.

Thoughts are not actions. They are the result of thinking. I prefer to treat them in a neutral way, neither investing them with positive or negative feelings.

Yes, for most of us, thinking is a necessary action in this world. But, you can go beyond thinking to just knowing, where thoughts aren't necessary.

[Angela]

But Cantando, isn't "connecting with source" just a thought? It sounds to me like you actually do judge the thought of connecting with source to be "good," not neutral.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

But Cantando, isn't "connecting with source" just a thought? It sounds to me like you actually do judge the thought of connecting with source to be "good," not neutral.

Well, for me, connecting with source is your natural state of consciousness or being, when all thoughts (positive or negative) and beliefs are not blocking the view, as it were.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Well, for me, connecting with source is your natural state of consciousness or being, when all thoughts (positive or negative) and beliefs are not blocking the view, as it were.

I understand your OP to imply that connecting with source is something you desire (and therefore think about.) That connecting with source is "good" and "just daydreaming" is not so good; but in any case that connecting with source is "better" than just daydreaming. You want to connect with source. You want to not just daydream. Is that not correct?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

I understand your OP to imply that connecting with source is something you desire (and therefore think about.) That connecting with source is "good" and "just daydreaming" is not so good; but in any case that connecting with source is "better" than just daydreaming. You want to connect with source. You want to not just daydream. Is that not correct?

What I meant was (after reading Ask and It is Given) that in order to manifest a desire, we need to connect with source energy (e.g through meditation). If we are connected and one with the flow, the 'allowing' can take effect.

Anything that blocks the flow (resistance), which for me, includes thoughts and daydreams, will delay or prevent that manifestation.
The more united we are with source energy, the faster the desire will be manifested.

I am not 'comparing' source connection with daydreams.
Daydreams have their place, e.g as a means of relaxation and de-stressing

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Daydreams have their place, e.g as a means of relaxation and de-stressing

So all thoughts are not useless, after all, then, huh? They can be a means of relaxation and de-stressing (which of course can lead to connecting to source. )

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Angela

So all thoughts are not useless, after all, then, huh? They can be a means of relaxation and de-stressing (which of course can lead to connecting to source. )

They are worse than useless in the context I described - they are an absolute hindrance!

Anyway, I hope you're not daydreaming when the bingo-caller calls out your last winning number!

[Angela]

Yikes! I would need to relax if I found myself at a bingo game!

[David365]

Originally Posted by Cantando

LoA may have some value in daily life - you have a negative thought, so you replace it with a positive one and you feel a bit better for a while. That's all well and good. But, how lasting is that? Isn't the negative thought still there, lurking in the background, ready to spring into your attention again?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that all teachings about thoughts leading to the manifestation of things in reality are simply incorrect.

What if you have had a traumatic, childhood experience which you cannot remember? You go about your day generally feeling cr*p, but you don't know why. You manage to generate a good feeling thought, using your will power, but it soon fades and you are back to feeling cr*p. There is no specific negative thought, just a lousy, overall state.

I'm coming round to thinking that thoughts, whether poitive or negative, don't really matter
I don't believe they create anything...

Thinking affects our mood. I don't believe in a LoA or that you can "create" by thinking. However, I do strongly believe in the power of positive thinking.

Unfortunately, throughout our life we take on board millions of messages from those around us, and most of us get more negative that positive – how many children get told to talk more?!! This sets up the habit for our mind to take on negative perspective as we get older. This negativity feeds our automatic thoughts, giving us negative self talk.

We can change what is ultimately a habit. We can challenge our negative thinking and self talk and find positive alternatives. Its not easy and using techniques like affirmations can help - as can using the support of others. I would be the first to suggest that if anyone has had real trauma they will need professional help to change their thinking.

Why bother? If your automatic thoughts are negative, your mood is going to be affected and you will find reasons to avoid stuff. If I can quote from a post I did on thinking for my blog:-

“Would you like to … go for a walk” [”it might rain”]

“… go for a meal at a restaurant” [”everywhere will be busy”]

“… meet my friends” [”they won’t like me, I’ve nothing in common with them”]

“… apply for this job” [”I won’t get it, I’m too old/young/inexperienced/over experienced/unqualified/overqualified … there’s lots of people going to apply, there is no way they’ll chose me..]

I expect very few people think positively all the time, its certainly not a "permanent" state. But it is a habit you can change - with effort.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Cantando

What if you have had a traumatic, childhood experience which you cannot remember?

Scott Peck had previously given various examples to demonstrate that the effect of a traumatic childhood experience is unpredictable, beyond the fact that it will have an effect.

For example, he outlined the life histories of two individuals, whose backgrounds in early life were largely similar (in terms of demographics like nationality, socioecnomic class, religious background etc). Both suffered the traumatic loss of their respective mothers to cancer, at an early age.

One individual grew up to be an insecure, issue-ridden man with numerous problems, the root cause of which Scott Peck, through psychiatric counselling, traced to be the death of his mother.

The other individual grew up to be a highly successful, well-known and respected oncologist, and according to Scott, a very well-adjusted, emotionally healthy personality. The effect of his mother's death was that he had geared himself from young, to the view that life was short, and therefore precious, and to be cherished, and furthermore that he would dedicate himself to helping others who were in pain.

Scott gave another account of a person who grew up in a very dire set of circumstances (poor family; abusive father; alcoholic mother; neighbourhood ridden with gangs etc; parents divorced; kids given up to state orphanage). Despite that, or as Scott put it, perhaps because of that, the kid grew up to be highly successful, wealthy, and respected, a community leader, had a stable family of his own, raised kids, happy, secure etc etc.

In Abraham's terminology, we might say that the kid's early life gave him the advantage of contrast - he received very clear ideas of what he did not want in life, and naturally gravitated towards the opposite.