Does LOA Really Work? How Can We Tell?

[Acting Like Godot]

How do you know that it's not just random good luck? Coincidence? Or the result of your own hard work, talent or skill?

The simple test is this. Suppose you already understand fairly well how LOA is theoretically supposed to work (you've watched "The Secret"; read three or four different books on LOA; and discussed LOA a fair bit with people on Internet forums).

You then spend quite some time trying to apply LOA in different areas of your life - for example, you set intentions concerning your family, your career, your health, your money, your love life, your hobbies, your car parking lots etc etc.

If LOA works, then after one year of this, your life should generally have improved quite dramatically, in comparison with what it was like, one year ago. Across different areas. Because one year is more than enough time for LOA to change your life a lot (assuming that LOA works).

Well, it works for me. Among other things, my monthly salary in September 2007 is more than double what it was in September 2006.

I'm just wondering whether it worked for the rest of you.

[Wreck]

Interesting.

Last month (August) made one year for me actively working with this. While nothing has yet been crossed of my list, I can see plenty of movement in many areas.

[Akashic_Librarian]

The LoA is something I am slowly working into my life. But personally i think you shouldn't go it as an experiment, you should go at it as a lifestyle change.

[Dan.Linehan]

But are the changes due to LOA? Or visualization with adept goal setting and followthrough?

[Akashic_Librarian]

There isn't a difference Dan. Its all the same. Everything is interconnected.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

There isn't a difference Dan. Its all the same. Everything is interconnected.

Yet, that's where most of the arguments lie, people battling back and forth about whether success is due to LOA or merely goal-setting.

[Addict]

I posted this as a response to a thread in the Business section. No one has responded to my reply yet. It actually seems more relevant here:

My husband pointed out to me that actually, the loan is still a form of abundance. The universe is still providing for me, it's just that it's in a different form than actual money.

My god. This scares me. How many people actually have this thought process? A loan is not abundance. A loan is debt. It can help you. It can be beneficial. It is still debt.

The thing I hate about LOA and similar ideas is it's like this:

Person A-"You can have anything you want by wanting it and being positive."

Person B-"How do I start?"

Person A-"You must rid negative thoughts completely out of your head."

Person B-"What if I'm poor?"

Person A-"You must believe you are not poor."

Person B-"What if I stay poor?"

Person A-"You must believe you are getting richer"

Person B-"What if LOA fails?"

Person A-"It won't. You must believe that it won't fail."

So basically, for LOA to work, you have to convince yourself that it works and that is working regardless of your circumstances.

You keep getting poorer and the LOA keeps working for you (in your mind), because you've agreed to believe in it 100%. I don't want to hate on people's system, especially if it's working for them, but how do I know if it's working for them if they're going to convince themselves of their success one way or another? It seems like this line of reasoning is destructive as people will stop providing value (that in turn gets them real value) and instead wait on the universe to provide them their welfare check. Am I completely missing the point?

[Akashic_Librarian]

In a word Addict. Yes.

You don't sit there a wait for the Universe to provide. (Essentially the Universe is you) You have ot act. Its all so complicated.

[Addict]

(Essentially the Universe is you)

The universe is you as in your thoughts or just your body? It seems if it's the former, than you should indeed be able to wait around for something to happen (with positive thinking of course).

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

In a word Addict. Yes.

You don't sit there a wait for the Universe to provide. (Essentially the Universe is you) You have ot act. Its all so complicated.

And don't forget about gratitude.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Addict

A loan is not abundance. A loan is debt. It can help you. It can be beneficial. It is still debt.

I agree Addict.

Debt is debt, not abundance.

I like Steve's take on intention formation here: A Better Life

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I agree Addict.

Debt is debt, not abundance.

I like Steve's take on intention formation here: A Better Life

The belief and consideration of debt or abundance is still part of the illusion. The desire for abundance is still illusion. It still means we are still struggling to get more. Why?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

The belief and consideration of debt or abundance is still part of the illusion. The desire for abundance is still illusion.

I grew up in a really nice house, now I don't have one. Would you say that's an illusion?

Originally Posted by Cantando

It still means we are still struggling to get more. Why?

We struggle to get more because we want to feel more secure.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

I grew up in a really nice house, now I don't have one. Would you say that's an illusion?



We struggle to get more because we want to feel more secure.

You grew up in a really nice house. So what?
Now, you don't have one. So what?
Yes, it is illusion.
Why do you want to feel more secure?

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Why do you want to feel more secure?

What would the alternative be?

What is best practice in life if possessions and a sense of security are illusion?

[Addict]

Are you an existentialist or something?

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

What would the alternative be?

What is best practice in life if possessions and a sense of security are illusion?

Possessions and security are transient. They may come or not come. It doesn't really matter. Essentially, they are meaningless. You can pump all your life's energy into acquiring them, only to have them all taken away from you in an instant. There is a lesson to be learnt from that.
What matters is becoming more spiritualized as a self-realized soul, connected to Source/God/Universal Consciousness.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Cantando

What matters is becoming more spiritualized as a self-realized soul, connected to Source/God/Universal Consciousness.

I think security is a rather large part of spirituality.

For example, I think it would be hard to feel very connected or self-realized in the middle of a holocaust.

[Lil Chris]

Security is an illusion.

According to Deepak Chopra the most secure place you can be is in being insecure.

It falls under the law of detachment, I have the article in word format if anyone is interested in reading it, just PM me and i'll send it to you. (it's about 4 pages)

Excerpt:

People are constantly seeking security, and you will find that seeking security is actually a very ephemeral thing. Even attachment to money is a sign of insecurity. You might say, "When I have X million dollars, then I’ll be secure. Then I’ll be financially independent and I will retire. Then I will do all the things I really want to do." But it never ever happens.

Those who seek security chase it for a lifetime without ever finding it. It remains elusive and ephemeral, because security can never come from money alone. Attachment to money will always create insecurity no matter how much money you have in the bank. In fact, some of the people who have the most money are the most insecure.

The search for security is an illusion. In ancient wisdom traditions, the solution to this whole dilemma lies in the wisdom of insecurity, or the wisdom of uncertainty. This means that the search for security and certainty is actually an attachment to the known. And what’s the known? The known is our past. The known is nothing other than the prison of past conditioning. There’s no evolution in that absolutely none at all. And when there is no evolution, there is stagnation, entropy, disorder, and decay.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

But personally i think you shouldn't go it as an experiment, you should go at it as a lifestyle change.

I know ... but that assumes that you already know, believe or assume that LOA works. If you don't already know, believe or assume that it works, you'll have to do it as an experiment first. Or at least part experiment, part lifestyle change.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Addict

So basically, for LOA to work, you have to convince yourself that it works and that is working regardless of your circumstances.

Aha. That is why my test is structured the way it is structured. Part of the idea is to eliminate or reduce the risk of self-delusion.

In other words, you give it time (say, a year). And you check for its effects (or lack thereof) across different areas of your life.

It is quite difficult to delude yourself across all (or many) different areas of your life. On the other hand, if all (or many) different areas of your life are showing marked improvement after one full year of LOA, it is quite difficult to delude yourself that LOA doesn't work.

(This test assumes that you will use LOA in all different areas of your life, as opposed to only one or two areas, say, your career or your health).

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

But are the changes due to LOA? Or visualization with adept goal setting and followthrough?

Before the term "Law of Attraction" was popularised by Abraham Hicks, the same thing was often referred to as "creative visualisation" (google Shakti Gawain).

They are all just different versions of the same thing. Shakti places more emphasis on visualisation; Abraham places more emphasis on emotions; Deepak Chopra places more emphasis on the two concepts of "intention" and "attention"; Jose Silva places more emphasis on brainwave frequencies and communication with a Higher Intelligence; Anthony Robbins adds in the element of "massive action" ....

But it's all the same thing.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Lil Chris

Security is an illusion.

According to Deepak Chopra the most secure place you can be is in being insecure.

It falls under the law of detachment, I have the article in word format if anyone is interested in reading it, just PM me and i'll send it to you. (it's about 4 pages)

Excerpt:

DC talks of freedom within the moment and non attachment, but in his book he contradicts himself big time. One minute he's saying that while in the field of pure potentiality, everything manifests instantly and is easy. Then he goes on to say about karma and attachement as important factors, stopping manifestation. Karma and attachemnt are human invented states of fear.

He also says that we are consciousness, but then he says we must abide by the rules. While I respect his writing he is no more knowledgable about anything than anyone else and therein lies the problem with gurus. They all take a simple basic acceptable premise and dress it up and take it to the bank, while everyone stumbles around confused. Steve does this also, it's inherent in the nature of sharing information. It's not a bad thing, but does all this information actually help??

Every guru, every religion, every belief system is fundamentally the same just with a different flavor stacked on top to confuse. All we really know is that we are a human being and we are something else. Both have power and the trick, the secret is to empower both.

There's nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and trying different belief systems and following people's information, but after a few years of doing this, it usually turns into a bit of a mess and then we desire to simplify.

I'm creating this now and I love it!

Works for me

Max

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Max Power

DC talks of freedom within the moment and non attachment, but in his book he contradicts himself big time. One minute he's saying that while in the field of pure potentiality, everything manifests instantly and is easy. Then he goes on to say about karma and attachement as important factors, stopping manifestation. Karma and attachemnt are human invented states of fear.

He also says that we are consciousness, but then he says we must abide by the rules. While I respect his writing he is no more knowledgable about anything than anyone else and therein lies the problem with gurus. They all take a simple basic acceptable premise and dress it up and take it to the bank, while everyone stumbles around confused. Steve does this also, it's inherent in the nature of sharing information. It's not a bad thing, but does all this information actually help??

Every guru, every religion, every belief system is fundamentally the same just with a different flavor stacked on top to confuse. All we really know is that we are a human being and we are something else. Both have power and the trick, the secret is to empower both.

There's nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and trying different belief systems and following people's information, but after a few years of doing this, it usually turns into a bit of a mess and then we desire to simplify.

I'm creating this now and I love it!

Works for me

Max

Max,
I totally agree... It's funny, the whole day I've had this thought in my head "Those who can't do... Teach". Anyway...

I just thought it may be relevant to the discussion.

[Uplift]

Originally Posted by Addict

I posted this as a response to a thread in the Business section. No one has responded to my reply yet. It actually seems more relevant here:



My god. This scares me. How many people actually have this thought process? A loan is not abundance. A loan is debt. It can help you. It can be beneficial. It is still debt.

The thing I hate about LOA and similar ideas is it's like this:

Person A-"You can have anything you want by wanting it and being positive."

Person B-"How do I start?"

Person A-"You must rid negative thoughts completely out of your head."

Person B-"What if I'm poor?"

Person A-"You must believe you are not poor."

Person B-"What if I stay poor?"

Person A-"You must believe you are getting richer"

Person B-"What if LOA fails?"

Person A-"It won't. You must believe that it won't fail."

So basically, for LOA to work, you have to convince yourself that it works and that is working regardless of your circumstances.

You keep getting poorer and the LOA keeps working for you (in your mind), because you've agreed to believe in it 100%. I don't want to hate on people's system, especially if it's working for them, but how do I know if it's working for them if they're going to convince themselves of their success one way or another? It seems like this line of reasoning is destructive as people will stop providing value (that in turn gets them real value) and instead wait on the universe to provide them their welfare check. Am I completely missing the point?

That scenario can be played out in the sporting field. In fact any situation. It is usefull to identify something you want to change, and why, but useless to continue to focus on it. Focusing on your preferred state is necessary to achieve it. Wandering around saying the equivalent of woe is me, I am a poor, below average athlete, its no point trying to be something I'm not, or whatever, is useless. There are myriads of examples in all fields, where people held an image in mind, long before they were there, and it came into fruition. That's the common denominator. Their ability to do so, to stay focused on that image against popular derision, and positive, in seemingly impossible situations.

Bill gates left University to achieve his vision. He virtually went temporarily into education debt as a point of change. So, what would have he achieved by thinking, 'I cant do this, look at my reality, I am broke, I have lost my education, I am going backwards, face reality, I must stop deluding myself, wake up and get back to Uni'.

Leighton Hewitt dropped out of school, the population focused on the disaster of his lack of education. News papers chastised his parents. Where would he be if this and that happened. Again, he held his focus, despite at one stage just being a hopefull, who had dropped out of school.

Richard Branson, Robbie Williams (Robbie Williams teachers told him he wasn't much of a singer and dancer, and would never make it in showbiz), same thing. The list is huge. One of my mates recently told me that as a little kid he stuck a picture of a perfect surf break on his wall, Gland, and told me he dreamed about surfing it continually, despite being considered a 'kook' by his peers. He is a surfing legend now, described by world champion surfers as the best surfer to have ever surfed the place, and ended up as the first westerner to be employed there, and be able to live there. Its hilarious, his description of how everyone surfing it used to rant and rave about what a paradise it would be, to be able to live there. One day the Indonesians rounded everyone up, and said they wanted a camp manager. My mate said he's never seen so many people #### themselves, dribbling excuses coming from everywhere... 'wow, I'd love to, its just that my mom's auntie's, uncle's, sister needs a new toothbrush and I have to rush back and get it,' or 'gee I don't think my boss will let me, and I can't contact the bank manager...he might get angry'. His story interests me, because he has never read a personal development book in his life, and dropped out of school, but he had a crystal clear vision which he imagined vividly, daily.

And following your dream mightn't always mean it turns out exactly the way you thought. Leighton Hewitt may have become a coach, a manager, a guy working in a tennis store, a commentator, linesman, umpire, official, but at least would be involved in, contributing to something he loved. Who knows, once he experienced it, he may have decided a life in tennis wasn't for him. He may have gone back to school later. Neither is following your dream a guarantee that your whole life will suddenly be perfect...that takes belief and focus too. But, denying your dreams, a life without inspiration and dreams, without self power and belief. Not for me. Like we say in surfing, 'You'll never know if you never go.'

[liverpool footballer]

I have another test which works quite well

It's the weather test. Whenever i'm playing football (the one where you don't use your hands) and grey clouds start appearing, i'd intend for dry, sunny weather and it nearly always comes. I've tried it for about 6-7 times and only failed once.

One of the most significant experiences was when i was training by myself and the sky becomes really greyish-dark, the smell of the rain was in the air and the softballers in my school had gone in to seek shelter. I intended and continued training even though a storm looked imminent and the storm never came.

Other times i've intended for it to rain so i could have a good reason for being late to school but those haven't been really successful, probably because i had considerable doubts in my head.

[Adelina]

To Acting:

Interesting post,
Was your life always on an upward trajectory, even before LOA?
If you could diagram growth in each area of your life,
is the slope significantly greater after LOA than before?

[Red Willow]

I sit around all day mostly doing nothing--well, I'd hardly call what I do all day "work." And amazing things just come to me. Sure, I have to focus and take some initiative, but I'm literally amazed at how little effort I put into things. My most incredible manifestation is coming into being right now. I'll post the story later. The LOA totally works.

[Lil Chris]

Originally Posted by Red Willow

I sit around all day mostly doing nothing--well, I'd hardly call what I do all day "work." And amazing things just come to me. Sure, I have to focus and take some initiative, but I'm literally amazed at how little effort I put into things. My most incredible manifestation is coming into being right now. I'll post the story later. The LOA totally works.

I'd love to hear your story...

[Zukin]

Originally Posted by Red Willow

I sit around all day mostly doing nothing--well, I'd hardly call what I do all day "work." And amazing things just come to me. Sure, I have to focus and take some initiative, but I'm literally amazed at how little effort I put into things. My most incredible manifestation is coming into being right now. I'll post the story later. The LOA totally works.

I'd love to hear the story as well. I've experienced lots of synchronicities myself and I'm always glad to hear any additional information and evidence.