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Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
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08-23-2007, 11:30 PM
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 going vegan Hey there, all. I have been considering going vegan for a few weeks now, however i am very passionate about food especialy cheese's and i love meat and realy love fish. So i'm a bit concerned that i could not manage. Also i belive its going against nature, no offence to vegan's and veggie's but, we have canine's for a reason, dont we? I am considering this because i belive the popular theory that, our digestive system's can't process dairy produce, and i belive it be a great move to make on my journey to optimum health. At the same time, although i may be able to cope without meat, i have for a year when i was about 12, fish, is a hole nother kettle of fish, ( pardon the pun ), and fish is extremely good for you, isn't it? So any tips, advice, benefits to being a vegan, that may persuade me further would be appreciated. Thanks all Karlos
__________________ He who dares to fail miserably, acheives greatly There's no such thing as insanity, just different degrees of normality      |
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08-23-2007, 11:38 PM
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  If that does not motivate you... nothing will...  . |
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08-24-2007, 12:13 AM
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| I was a vegetarian for many years. My best friend is vegan, and another friend of mine is a raw foodist... there are many good websites out there dedicated to helping people to understand the benefits of being vegan. I think it's a great lifestyle choice, but it requires a lot of time and commitment. I was very close to being a vegan; I didn't eat any animal products except when they were baked into something like a slice of bread or muffin. I went back to eating chicken and fish only and I'll tell you why. To be a proper vegetarian or vegan takes a lot of research. You'll need to supplement your diet with new foods to be able to get things that you would normally get from animal products. If you don't pay enough attention you can wind up short on a lot of nutrients that you need. As a single mom working full time and everything else, I found my habits slipping in favor of saving time and I no longer felt I was as healthy as I should be. I am a total supporter of it and I think if you are committed to doing it you should by all means take that step forward. Just be sure to plan and read and know what you're gonna need to make it a healthy step forward! |
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08-24-2007, 12:22 AM
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It requires more work to eat healthy than not. Fresh foods don't have the shelf life that processed foods have, so more trips to the market are required. You just have to make the commitment. But it's not nearly as work-intensive as going vegan  |
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08-24-2007, 12:24 AM
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However, please consider that you don't necessarily have to go vegan to cut out dairy (it's what my blog is about). I also agree with you about our teeth, that is our bodies are evidently made to be omnivores. If you do go vegan, make sure you get all your vitamins, especially B12: Vegetarian / Vegan Nutrition - Vitamin B12 Good luck!
__________________ Want readers? Try BLOG RUSH. It's 100% free. Still looking for the ideal diet? The answer is 10,000 years old: I'm an Omnivore |
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08-24-2007, 12:25 AM
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I just used substitutions. Boca for hamburger, vegan lunchmeat for sandwichs, earth balance butter, soymilk, rice dream ice cream, amys frozen pizzas, oatmeal with dark chocolate chips, mock chicken salad (delicious on sourdough,) etc. What's so hard about it exactly? Are you vegan?
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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08-24-2007, 12:29 AM
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08-24-2007, 12:33 AM
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What exactly do you mean by "true vegan?"
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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08-24-2007, 12:48 AM
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Every measurable taxonomy matches humans with herbivores, not omnivores. Teeth (Incisors) Carnivore Short and pointed Omnivore Short and pointed Herbivore Broad, flattened, and spade-shaped Human Broad, flattened, and spade-shaped Teeth (Canines) Carnivore Long, sharp, and curved Omnivore Long, sharp, and curved Herbivore Dull and short or long (for defense) or none Human Short and blunted Teeth (Molars) Carnivore Sharp, jagged, and blade-shaped Omnivore Sharp blades and/or flattened Herbivore Flattened with cusps vs. complex surface Human Flattened with nodular cusps Chewing Carnivore None; swallows food whole Omnivore Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing Herbivore Extensive chewing necessary Human Extensive chewing necessary Saliva Carnivore No digestive enzymes Omnivore No digestive enzymes Herbivore Carbohydrate-digesting enzymes Human Carbohydrate-digesting enzymes Stomach Acidity Carnivore Less than or equal to pH of 1 with food in stomach Omnivore Less than or equal to pH of 1 with food in stomach Herbivore pH of 4 to 5 with food in stomach Human pH of 4 to 5 with food in stomach
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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08-24-2007, 02:29 AM
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08-24-2007, 02:35 AM
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| Vegan is not ideal I honestly feel that being a vegan is not ideal for optimal health. Yes you maintain a healthy weight and have overall health being vegan if you do it right, however doing it right is the tricky part. Erin, Steve's wife, told me a few months ago on this forum that she was not eating a healthy vegan diet at the time because she was eating too much vegan "junk food". I personally went on the vegan diet for 3 months. I am overweight and I stayed overweight. In three months I may have lost 5 pounds. I did not exercise, which is key to lose weight. However, at my bodyweight I should have lost more weight than 5 pounds in my opinion. My blood pressure did go down and I usually was satisfied. I honestly think the most efficient and health diet consists of a proper ratio of carbs, lean protein, and fat. The Zone by Barry Sears seems to be a great diet and lifestyle to live. He states that for every 3 grams of lean protein you eat, you should eat 4 grams of good fibrous carbs and 1 gram of good fat (extra virgin olive oil and unsaturated fats). He also states that we should eat 6 times a day (smaller portions than meals). When we eat several times a day we are communicating to our body that there is plenty of food out there and we will not need the fat for future use. When we only eat 3 meals a day (and especially a larger dinner) we are telling our bodies to store fat because we are eating too far between meals. So a great small meal would consist of a small salad, piece of lean chicken, and some walnuts. The Abs Diet that is also popular goes by this same mantra (6 meals a day, lean meats, fibrous carbs). It expresses the importance of exercise and building muscle. For every pound of muscle we put on it takes 50 calories just to maintain it sitting. That is an awesome incentive to do resistance training along with a great diet. Now I'm not saying you can't build muscle and lose weight on a vegan diet, it is just a hell of a lot harder without animal protein, period. Animal protein gives you a solid and efficient supply of protein that provides that sixth amino acid that our bodies can't make by itself. It's so easy to deprive yourself of this protein when we are not paying attention with the vegan diet. Animal protein helps make losing weight a lot easier, however after you are at a healthy weight, maybe a vegan diet is ok........I just think it makes life a lot difficult and who the hell doesn't want to eat fish, turkey, chicken, fish, and cheese the rest of their lives? |
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08-24-2007, 03:49 AM
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Comparative Anatomy Updated. Humans--Omnivores or Vegetarians? Humans are Omnivores -- The Vegetarian Resource Group(written by a vegetarian) I'll delve into this deeper when I have more time. I will ask this if anyone is willing to respond: What about B12? You can't live without it. It is only found, in significant quantities, in animal products. Anyways, it's very unlikely someone is going to change my mind about the ideal diet being the one we are adapted to eat. Does that include meat? I think so, but if I found evidence to the contrary, I would definitely go vegan.
__________________ Want readers? Try BLOG RUSH. It's 100% free. Still looking for the ideal diet? The answer is 10,000 years old: I'm an Omnivore |
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08-24-2007, 08:56 AM
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| I went on a Vegan diet as a means to more easily adapt to Polyphasic sleep and found turning Vegan to be one of the easiest and most beneficial things I've ever done for myself. That Polyphasic sleep attempt lasted only one week but I've been Vegan now for over a year. I lost about 35 lbs during my first 3 months of Veganism, with moderate exercise. Mainly because my diet was so poor prior to switching, and at 22 years old my metabolism was ripe to ramp up as soon as I started eating healthy. I also noticed that if I kept my diet at around 70-80% raw, I would experience some crazy hikes in my energy level. Going Vegan doesn't guarantee that you'll be healthy, but what it does do is totally shift your mindset on health. Before a broccoli and cheese hot pocket was about as healthy as I got. Now, I consider myself being unhealthy when I eat multigrain flax bran cereal with unsweetened soy milk. From the outside-in this may sound like a bad thing, but it's actually quite reassuring to know that even when I really let loose and eat poorly, my diet is still much healthier than it was a few years back. People love to tear diets apart and compare and contrast them citing untold quantities of conflicting research and reports. But the bottom line is that ANY diet that gets you away from the Standard American Diet and closer to eating natural, unrefined foods, is a step in the right direction; and anyone who cares about you as a person should encourage you to go ahead and try it. Being a healthy Vegan is not that hard. Eat organic fruits/veggies or supplement with B12. Make sure you get about 15 minutes of sun light a day so your body can make Vitamin D. And ensure that you eat a wide variety of foods and go easy on the processed Boca and Soy products that are commonly overeaten by otherwise healthy Vegans (myself included). Regardless of whether human beings are omnivores or herbivores, going Vegan in a non-Vegan world is not for everyone. So, give it a 30 Day trial and see if it's right for you. But don't let some thread in a forum decide for you whether or not trying something is worth your while. |
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08-24-2007, 10:02 AM
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| @Addict: apparently, the B12 deficiency thing is yet another myth: Vegans and the B12 Deficiency Myth Jim.
__________________ Jim Offerman ~ music that moves you blog - twitter - free music - join the fan club! |
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08-24-2007, 12:31 PM
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| I read the article and it didn't actually seem to contradict anything I already knew. In fact, the article states that: -deficiency causes severe nervous system damage -the primary source of B12 is in animal products -the human body produces some, but it's not enough -the author comes to the same conclusion that a "cautious vegan" must use supplements I'm not saying B12 is a problem for vegans. All they have to do is take a supplement. I am arguing that there are no natural vegan sources.
__________________ Want readers? Try BLOG RUSH. It's 100% free. Still looking for the ideal diet? The answer is 10,000 years old: I'm an Omnivore |
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08-24-2007, 03:25 PM
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| I think, by the wide range we can digest, humans are scavengers. Pretty gross on the whole. But having higher reasoning, we can choose our diets for optimum health and ethics. I don't want to put BGH in my body. I know it's terrible for me. Lots of milk from another animal? Probably not good for me. I don't want to support the slaughter house industry. Having B12 problems in the past and feeling better with minimal animal sources in my diet, I'll continue to consume a little, but you research and make the choices best for you, and so long as you're healthy, ignore the naysayers.
__________________ <jamariquay> I never understood the need for people to kill for their religion. Then I remembered, "Wait. If Optimus Prime tells me to gack someone, that ****er's going down." |
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08-24-2007, 04:28 PM
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| I personally don't see how one can honestly believe humans are anything but omnivorous by nature. You can argue all day long about what foods are better than others, but the fact remains that we can derive energy and nutrition from just about anything we put in our mouths, provided it's not poisonous. That said, diet is a personal choice. You do your homework and make a choice based on what you find. Don't assume, though, that you have to be vegan because humans were only designed to eat a certain way.
__________________ A truly open mind will seriously consider all points of view, even those with which it strongly disagrees for there may be a grain of truth in even the most ridiculous of opinions. |
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08-24-2007, 05:32 PM
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Seriously? What about B12? I think you need something like a millionth of a gram of it per the FDA.. Check out these stats though, about heart disease, the number one killer in the US. Code: Number of U.S. medical schools: 125 Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30 Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four years in medical school: 2.5 hours Most common cause of death in the U.S.: heart attack How frequently a heart attack kills in the U.S.: every 45 seconds Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 percent Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat: 15 percent Risk of average U.S. man who eats no meat, dairy or eggs: 4 percent Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of meat, dairy and eggs by 10 percent: 9 percent Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption by 50 percent: 45 percent Amount you reduce risk if you eliminate meat, dairy and eggs from your diet: 90 percent Average cholesterol level of people eating meat-centered-diet: 210 mg/dl Chance of dying from heart disease if you are male and your blood cholesterol level is 210 mg/dl: greater than 50 percent
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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08-24-2007, 05:35 PM
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Food animals are tortured systematically.. when you buy the resultant products you fund and perpetuate those practices.
__________________ Best, Dan Linehan |
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08-24-2007, 05:52 PM
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| Yes, you need minute amounts, but you still need it. Deficiency can cause irreversible nervous system damage. I have a friend that went on a vegetarian diet and didn't take supplements. Shortly afterwards, she started constantly feeling dizzy, weak, and lethargic. I'm fairly certain it was because of vitamin deficiency. The nutrition education levels of doctors you provided is indeed shocking. Could you give the source for that data? I wish they had the statistics on men who ate meat and eggs, but no dairy. I'm kind of tired of the association between cutting dairy and cutting meat out. Let me say that I do believe Americans consume way too much meat.
__________________ Want readers? Try BLOG RUSH. It's 100% free. Still looking for the ideal diet? The answer is 10,000 years old: I'm an Omnivore |
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08-24-2007, 06:13 PM
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 When I get my own place, I plan on having pet chickens, and eating their eggs.
__________________ <jamariquay> I never understood the need for people to kill for their religion. Then I remembered, "Wait. If Optimus Prime tells me to gack someone, that ****er's going down." |
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08-24-2007, 06:33 PM
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