A drug with these side effects? No thanks!

[Tuumble]

Some of you may know that I have a mild form of epilepsy called petit mal. My mother called a while back to say she's heard of this new drug that may be able to stop the 'blackouts' that I've been having for last 16 years.

It's called Keppra and looking at the side effects I think I'm happy the way I am!

• sleepiness or feeling tired
• weakness
• difficulty coordinating muscles normally, (e.g., abnormal walk)
• aggression, anger, and irritability
• agitation, anxiety, and other mood changes
• decreased ability to cope with daily life events
• feeling depressed or worsening depression
• thoughts of suicide

I think the company should fire their copywriter coz it sure aint selling the product to me!

[realignedliving]

Not taking a drug because it can produce mild side effects is sort of like saying, "I don't get into a car to travel because it might crash and cause me to have severe injuries or even die!" If it wasn't safe, they wouldn't have approved it for human use.

[Tuumble]

To be honest I've been on so many different cocktails of tablets for this condition over the years I don't want to fill myself with any more chemicals. In fact I've been off them altogether for months with literally no change in the number of blackouts I have.

Therefore, what's the point?

[Addict]

If it wasn't safe, they wouldn't have approved it for human use.

I disagree. I wouldn't say anything that gets approved is safe.

Also, the comparison with car crashes is sort of weak because side effects are usually guaranteed or at least common.

[Angela]

I'm glad the drug companies are required to disclose potential side effects now, because even if they're "safe", I think the patient should have the opportunity to choose whether or not he wants to risk those particular side effects. In the case of this drug, I can't see where these side effects would be worth risking unless you were really in a bad spot with your illness.

How about Alli with its anal leakage? Or Accutane with its propensity to causing almost-certain birth defects (you have to sign a document promising to have an abortion if you get pregnant while on Accutane.)

Tuumble, what's the alternative? Do you just learn to deal with your seizures drug-free? What happens if you're driving when a blackout occurs? Are there 'natural' treatments for petit mal?

p.s. your mom loves you and wants you to be safe and healthy. what a great feeling, huh?

[Tuumble]

Originally Posted by Angela

Tuumble, what's the alternative? Do you just learn to deal with your seizures drug-free? What happens if you're driving when a blackout occurs? Are there 'natural' treatments for petit mal?

I've long accepted the situation and it doesn't really affect my life these days because you kinda get used to not driving when you haven't done it since February 18th 1991.

I've not looked at natural cures - where do you suggest I look? Is it a Google job?

p.s. your mom loves you and wants you to be safe and healthy. what a great feeling, huh?

Indeed it is!

[geekchic9]

Originally Posted by Addict

I disagree. I wouldn't say anything that gets approved is safe.

Also, the comparison with car crashes is sort of weak because side effects are usually guaranteed or at least common.

I thought car crashes are very common, practically guaranteed.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by realignedliving

If it wasn't safe, they wouldn't have approved it for human use.

Hahaha!

Tell me this is irony.

[realignedliving]

"I disagree. I wouldn't say anything that gets approved is safe." and "Tell me this is irony."
In the grand scheme of things, most of what's approved for medical use is safe for the general population. There probably have been less than stellar drugs that were allowed for general use in the past, but it's rare now. Things are insanely tested, monitored, and assigned for specific uses, and you yourself are considered when given a drug to take. Sure, you might end up with an undesirable side effect that doesn't happen very often (at all), but how are you to know unless you take it?

"...the comparison with car crashes is sort of weak because side effects are usually guaranteed or at least common."
Really? With 99% of the drugs I've taken for medical problems, I've had no visible side effects. Then again, it most likely depends on what the drug is, what it's treating, and the specific person. I wouldn't even say side effects are "moderate" for most drugs - I'd say "minimal" or less would be normal.

The car crash comparison wasn't to make some flamboyant point. Of course crashing in a car would be a ton worse than almost any of the side effects listed! But you wouldn't not get in a car because it has a very slight chance of crashing and causing damage to yourself, much like how most people wouldn't not take a drug because it has the potential for (mainly) very mild side effects, if any even appear.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Tuumble

I've not looked at natural cures - where do you suggest I look? Is it a Google job?

Indeed it is!

I would think that if you're looking at this sort of solution, there's probably many others who would like know more about it, as well. Maybe you should start an online support group? You could probably even get funding for it if you try.

[CoolStuff]

here's some natural stuff for epilepsy that I found really quick:
Treatment for Epilepsy
Epilepsy Prevention, Cure, Curing Protocol, Remedies, Herbs, Alternative Medicine
those two sites have served me well.

The world according to the FDA and Big Pharma
The World According to FDA

I don't really care about what the FDA says. They're just like most of the government is now, revolves around corporate interest. And how can you BAN a natural vitamin like B17. But you allow anti depressants and "A.D.D." medication?

[realignedliving]

B17 is not a vitamin, and most of the research out there suggests that it does not help out patients who use it to treat cancer. Also, it's not entirely banned, as some doctors can prescribe it for other uses, just not cancer. With such a scattered history of actually being useful for treating illnesses and cancer, it's obvious to me why that was "banned" and A.D.D./anti-depressants are not. The latter group actually works for treatment.

[Addict]

I thought car crashes are very common, practically guaranteed.

[ginkgo]

Many (including author of Natural Cures, Kevin Trudeau) that taking DRUGS is the worst thing that you can do for your health.

[realignedliving]

"Many (including author of Natural Cures, Kevin Trudeau) that taking DRUGS is the worst thing that you can do for your health."

Who's "many", and what is the basis of that claim?

[dennis08]

LOL ! Thats worse then your condition.

[CoolStuff]

Drugs are bad I mean **** why would you wanna **** with nature. Mostly everything of today came from messing with our nature.

LOL @ anti depressants working.
Antidepressants suicide link (FDA warning)- The Doctors Lounge(TM)
Antidepressants & Suicide, FDA Warns - Depression symptoms, causes, and treatments including clinical and manic depression.

Also LOL @ ADD meds working. I know people who have taken their meds, take them half the time, don't take them at all, they've tried everything. They're always switching meds and ****. They don't change really. I talk about it with them. They're all very smart too. Really creative and everything. I know someone with "really bad ADHD" and he smokes weed (which they tell him not to do because he "has ADD"), and he memorizes plays all the time (he's a great actor).

Also I have to laugh at things they suggest pregnant women not to do. If it's not safe for pregnant women, it's most likely not safe for anyone, it's just easier to see the effects because it will show up in the baby, who at the time is too weak.

[realignedliving]

First of all, most of your "natural cures" - such as "vitamin" B17 you were just hawking about earlier - are found in nature, and have to be extracted (by MAN) to get them. Ironically, the same goes for aspirin - the phenol used to make it comes from coal tar, a natural substance - but since that's a synthesized medication now, that can't be good for you! Since people have to mess around with plants to get B17, does that mean you're messing with nature as well? Seems like it to me. No different than synthesizing medication for people to use.

Those links are old; there is evidence now that shows there is some link between suicide (at the start of treatment) and the antidepressant medication. However, an adverse side effect is hardly a case for saying the mediation doesn't work. While antidepressants do not work for 30% to 50% of the patients they are prescribed to, it DOES work for 50% to 70% of the patients. That's a fairly large amount. While side effects can range from low motivation and moods to gaining weight, the side effects are small compared to what the medication can do (and does!) for people. There's no comparison.

If they're "always switching meds" for their ADD, it sounds like they don't give one medication a long enough chance to see if it works. With therapy and medication, ADHD can be treated very well... given the glimpse of the lifestyle your friend has, it doesn't seem like he'd care enough to try therapy or medication to solve his problem.

"if it's not safe for pregnant women, it's most likely not safe for anyone"

A pregnant women has a completely different body than a normal person due to a developing child; different nutrition is required, some medications cannot be used, etc.

How can you equate what happens to an unborn baby who is developing to a grown human? It doesn't even make sense.

[WanderingOak]

One thing I have always wondered about is when you are given a huge grocery list of 'potiential side effects' such as:

Originally Posted by Tuumble

• sleepiness or feeling tired
• weakness
• difficulty coordinating muscles normally, (e.g., abnormal walk)
• aggression, anger, and irritability
• agitation, anxiety, and other mood changes
• decreased ability to cope with daily life events
• feeling depressed or worsening depression
• thoughts of suicide

how many of those effects are caused by the drug, and how many are caused by suggestion. IOW, could a patient cause those side effects himself, just from worrying about getting those side effects?

Case in point, a few years ago I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease, and even after antibiotic treatment, I was told that I would have joint problems and arthritis in the future. So, if I do have joint problems, are they actually cuased by Lyme Disease, or are they psychosomatic, or 'all in my head'?

It sounds a bit like 'the dark side of the placebo effect'. I wonder if any placebo research has been done on this? IOW, the Doctor says "This (placebo) is a wonderful new painkiller, but you may get a rash", how many people would manifest a rash afterwards?

[realignedliving]

IOW, the Doctor says "This (placebo) is a wonderful new painkiller, but you may get a rash", how many people would manifest a rash afterwards?

A few, but nearly not as many who'd actually develop a rash as a real side effect. Placebo effects can work both ways; like psychosomatic illnesses, it's sort of an 'expectancy' thing. For example, somebody could say "I think I'm REALLY going to feel drowsy after taking this Nyquil", and then falling asleep 5 minutes after you take it (5 minutes is not enough time for the medication to fully kick in).

More often than not, whatever is causing the side effect is a real disease / illness. Your joint problems are most likely caused by Lyme disease, unless you worried yourself to death for hours a day THINKING you're going to have joint problems.

EDIT: They even have a term for what you're referring to, WanderingOak - the "Nocebo effect". How cool! I didn't know that until I did some research on placebos just now.

[WanderingOak]

Originally Posted by realignedliving

More often than not, whatever is causing the side effect is a real disease / illness.

However, the list of side effects that Tuumble gave included 'anxiety', in which case, just reading the list of mood-altering side effects might induce such feelings. I have a feeling it would with me (in which case it more than likely will).

Originally Posted by realignedliving

They even have a term for what you're referring to, WanderingOak - the "Nocebo effect". How cool! I didn't know that until I did some research on placebos just now.

Now that is interesting.