Growth Hormone+Eating After Workout

[Iamsuperman]

I've read that immediatly after a workout (weights or cardio) is the best time to replenish glycogen stores in the muscles and the more time you spend after a workout, the less glycogen gets absobered into the muscle.

I've also read that growth hormone is high immediately after workout and eating suger, causing and insulin spike, will blunt the release of growth hormone.

Is it really a one or the other, or is there any way to replenish those carbs without blunting growth hormone?

[hazerfazer]

Everything I have read stresses the insulin spike after the workout. All the experts' work I read indicates that the optimal thing to do is get a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of fast acting carbs (I use 100% grape juice and/or a banana) and quickly absorbed protein (whey protein) within a half hour after intense workouts. I would say 20-30 grams whey protein and 40-60 grams fast acting carbs. I have not heard anything about growth hormone being blunted after a workout due to an insulin spike, and if it is, then the priority must be the insulin spike. Otherwise, you can kiss your greatest potential for anabolism goodbye and say hello to catabolism.

[Shamou]

Glycogen is the storage form of glucose found in the liver and muscles... and the glucose is the fuel for the body...

Now, after you have finished exercise there is no immediate need for glucose... what is needed is proteins that will be eventually sent to the liver to manufacture more glucose and glycogen...

So the best thing to absorb after a workout is proteins... and that should in no way impede the growth hormones...
.

[hazerfazer]

While protein is indeed more important after a session, if you are trying to gain muscle, carbs are a valuable tool in creating an insulin spike post workout. "Carbs themselves are not anabolic; they can help muscle growth through glycogen replenishment and via an insulin spike, which prevents muscle breakdown and facilitates the uptake of amino acids in the muscle" - Christian Thibaudeau

And my carb recommendations are all dependent on your weight, body fat, and goals.

[Uplift]

Its a classic controversial topic. Heaps of contradictory info. I have been training people for around thirty years, am fully qualified and know what my preferences are. I am 6' 225 lbs muscular weight at 52 years. I believe that you need protein and plenty of simple fast acting carbs straight after a heavy, intense workout. Your body is set up for pushing nutrients into cells. Heavy intense workouts deplete muscle glycogen stores. The quicker they are replaced, the quicker you are free to recover. A lack of glycogen will result in protein or muscle tissue being used for energy, which is undesirable and inefficient. Fast acting proteins like whey are best, and the insulin spike from whey and the simple carbs will also contribute to uptake. Thats the perfect time to use creatine if you want to. Also make sure that you eat really well (vitamins, minerals, enzymes and other micro nutrients) to aid recovery. And have enough water. It can help to have a fast protein or some amino acids about an hour before a workout, to help preserve muscle tissue.
An hour or so after your post workout meal I like to have slow digesting protein and carbs and some healthy fats. That keeps you set up to recover for a long period. If you are underweight it is a good thing to do before bed. Just leave out the carbs. I like casein, as I only eat animal products from milk.

As far as hormones, growth hormone is another controversial issue. I llike the way I train and eat, as I always feel strong and fit, and get a good pump, and feel that it is indicative of being in growth mode. I also like to do a burn set towards the end of my workout. Testosterone is really important too. There is a high degree of agreement, and I personally find that short intense workouts (45min max), also incorporating heavy low rep work, results in elevated testosterone. If your diet is too low in protein and fat, it will adversely effect testosterone. Zinc is important too. In fact, it is easy to figure out, it's common sense. Your body is always in survival mode. Not enough of anything affects hormones. No good being set up to grow muscle if there isn't the food to support it. Same thing with training. No good to build too much muscle if your training is tending towards aerobic. So no need for elevated hormones.

Generally to grow you need to swing the anabolic/catabolic ratio slightly in your favour. When reading training and diet articles by top bodybuilders and other athletes, keep the drug issue fully in mind. Despite the fact they like to play it down, drug use plays a massive role in their appearance and performance, and what they can get away with. I have seen plenty of them, even Arnold, when they are forced to take a break from drug use, and its a dramatic difference. In fact I have a theory that sadly, particularly these days, the best bodybuilders are those types of people that can tolerate the most drugs, mentally and physically. Similar to how some people can drink alchohol with little effects compared to most people.

[Iamsuperman]

Is there any way to get a lot of glucose in your blood without the insulin spike? (without drugs)

Is the insulin spike necessary for the glucose to be absorbed?

[Minsc]

Originally Posted by Iamsuperman

Is there any way to get a lot of glucose in your blood without the insulin spike?

Lots of glucose in your blood causes an insulin spike...
The insulin causes your muscles to absorb the glucose. I don't think there's any other reason to eat simple carbs after a workout.

If you have type I diabeties, though, you won't have a spike after eating simple carbs.

[Uplift]

Increase of glucose loading after exercise is a natural reaction, regardless of trying to enhance the process. There is a scientific explanation, but think about why that would be. We have only lived this way for a speck on the time scale. For an extremely long period, we had to virtually exercise to eat. No rolling out of bed, or off the lounge, or out of the office and waddling to cafes or the fridge. There was competition for food. Other animals were interested in eating us. Being able to eat and utilise food quickly, and recover from exercise quickly was paramount. So we are equipped to do so, or wouldn't have survived. Our bodies are set up that way. The modern maladies effecting a lot of peoples health are easy to understand.

Whey causes a similar effect with insulin spikes as does simple carbs. Thats why slower proteins and fats are useful and necessary too, to stabilise blood sugar and metabolism, as well as providing a long anabolic window. Protein and fat are essential, you must ingest them to survive. Any signal that something is wrong in that area puts the body in emergency modes. Metabolism and hormone levels are effected. Again its simple. Think about Pygmies and Hotentots compared to Nigerians and Polynesians. The similar scenario can be observed everywhere.

Once you think about what our bodies are designed to do, you can begin to optimise their performance. Like buying and owning a car that can repair itself, awesome!

[beetee2]

Well I came here to research biphasic sleep and it's effects on weight training and recovery, but I couldn't resist responding to this thread so here goes.

Originally Posted by Iamsuperman

Is there any way to get a lot of glucose in your blood without the insulin spike? (without drugs)

Is the insulin spike necessary for the glucose to be absorbed?

Yes, there is. Like has been previously mentioned, it is a very debated topic among the bodybuilding community, but I take sides with what must be the minority.

The solution is Low GI carbohydrates post-workout. Carbs are essential for the insulin spike so that nutrients are shuttled into your muscles. This is important both pre-workout (so that you have energy for your workout) and post-workout (to feed nutrients into the muscles so that you grow / recover). One thing to keep in mind is that the higher GI of the carb you consume, the more pronounced "crash" you'll experience. To circumvent this, 45 minutes to an hour pre-workout I'll consume 1 cup of oats (oatmeal) with 1 scoop of whey protein and water, put it in a blender and consume it. This way I don't crash during my workout from a High GI insulin spike pre-workout. Sometimes I DO sip on gatorade throughout my workout, just for kicks, and to keep energy levels sustained. And then afterwards I'll consume the same shake I had pre-workout, except with skim milk rather than water, simply because I don't prefer drinking milk pre-workout.

I simply prefer low GI carbs to high GI carbs pre / post workout due to the lessened "crash factor" and because the high GI carbs promote fat storage moreso than the low GI carbs. When insulin is secreted, nothing gets brokedown, but rather your body is saying "go to storage mode" so that nutrients are stored in the muscle cells. When this happens, fat oxidation is put on hold. So basically, the higher GI carbohydrates you consume, the longer it takes for your body to reach homeostasis in regards to blood glucose regulation, and the longer time your body spends storing fat! However, if you are a genetic freak who has little to no insulin sensitivity, then chances are you shouldn't worry yourself with things like this. =)

May I suggest Googling 'glycemic index' and read about it if you aren't familiar with Low / High GI carbohydrates and how they affect energy levels / insulin spikes / nutrient shuttling.

[IAmSoOverMe]

There was a study done where a group of people were given at least 10 grams of high quality protein within 10 minutes or less after a weight lifting workout. Another group waited 2 hours before they got any protein. The group that ingested protein within 10 minutes immediately following a workout showed much greater gains. I have tried this one myself, and it is true. The human body is much more sensitive than what we realize. http://www.IAmSoOverMe.com

[beetee2]

Originally Posted by IAmSoOverMe

There was a study done where a group of people were given at least 10 grams of high quality protein within 10 minutes or less after a weight lifting workout. Another group waited 2 hours before they got any protein. The group that ingested protein within 10 minutes immediately following a workout showed much greater gains. I have tried this one myself, and it is true. The human body is much more sensitive than what we realize. http://www.IAmSoOverMe.com

This is very true also. It is recommended to consume protein within 30 minutes prior to completing your workout to maximize the benefits. Good advice.

[John Hill]

Since you have diminished your glycogen supplies, that have been stored in your muscles, during your workout, your muscles are screaming to be refueled after your workout. Hence, this is the ideal time to take in carbs and the sugar contained within the carbs acts as a transport for the protein to enter the muscles immediately after your workout to help repair and rebuild the muscle tissue that was stressed during your workout.

Growth hormone production is encouraged by an increase in carbs although most of your GH is produced while you sleep. For this reason bodybuilders often take a dose of carbs and protein just before bed to help repair and build new muscle while they sleep. If you have an overweight problem, taking carbs before bed is not a good idea.

John