How to recognize a good karate club?

[Niki]

I want to train karate but i got a small problem. There are a few clubs to choose from and i really dont know how to recognize the best or the greatest. I want a good combination of kumite and kata.

If there are any karate experts on this forum, maybe you can tell me what i should look for in a club.

Thankyou .

[JohnnyJimJams]

Hey Niki,

Most clubs provide the first lesson free (or first few free).

Try a few and see which instructor/s bring the best out in you.

[micth]

go round to each of the clubs and ask the instructors to break bricks with their hands...


...choose the club with the instructor that can break the most bricks

[Lotus]

Good dojo:

*Ditto to the above note about "free lesson" or three. You want to make sure you're comfy there before you start investing a lot of money in it. The sensei or teacher and the other students should want you to be there and to feel comfortable.

*Doors are open to everyone. If a paraplegic wheels in and says "I want to learn martial arts," she is welcomed with glee.

*The classes are broken up by age and ability so that everyone gets time learning at their skill level, BUT all ages and abilities are welcome to spar with one another for practice. In a good dojo, the better students will want to help those who aren't as good to progress. (There is a contact system taught to ensure no one gets hurt, and there is an agreed "release" signal if something starts hurting... usually "tapping out.")

*Some competition among students exists, but sensei or teacher doesn't favor the winners over the losers or vice versa.

*There is discipline in the dojo, but there's room for humor too. Flexible bodies, flexible minds.

*The sensei or teacher should have at least a black belt, preferably in more than one form.

*The sensei or teacher gives you lessons in philosophy as much as s/he gives you lessons in fighting, if not more. S/he will speak of her/his sensei with great respect.

*Other fighting systems, meditation, yogas, gymnatics, and other physical disciplines are valued.

*You'll usually sense a centeredness in the sensei or teacher and in the experienced students. It's hard to explain, but these people exude a quiet, but (unless they are sparring or involved in a formal competition for titiles) humble dignity and confidence.

*Criticism is given with explicit instuction on how to improve what you're doing wrong, usually manually or physically, at the time the criticism is delivered.

*"You need to practice more" is heard continually. "Very good, but do this slightly different" is heard quite a lot. "That's perfect" is almost never heard. "That sucks, only seppuku will save you." is never heard... in a serious way.

*After about a month, you feel very safe and comfortable socially, even if you're physically clumsy.


Bad Dojo:

*People are mean to one another, in-fighting develops.
*New students or those of lesser ability are picked on.
*The teacher is focused on fighting, not on developing mind.
*You feel uncomfortable... for whatever reason.

***
p.s. I'm not an expert, like you wanted to ask. I've only done karate since 99.

[MartialDev]

I've written two articles on this particular subject, see:
How To Choose a Bad Martial Arts Instructor
Scarcity and Abundance in Martial Arts Instruction

My advice is to visit all the martial arts instructors in your area before making a decision--not just the Karate schools. This is a big investment and you should exercise due diligence.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by MartialDev

I've written two articles on this particular subject, see...
My advice is to visit all the martial arts instructors in your area before making a decision--not just the Karate schools...

MartialDev,
This is very good advice, especially about the area instructors! I very much enjoyed "teaching from scarcity" vs "teaching from abundance" ... Makes me love my sensei even more.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by MartialDev

My advice is to visit all the martial arts instructors in your area before making a decision--not just the Karate schools. This is a big investment and you should exercise due diligence.

Ditto that if you're starting out in the martial arts, unless you've already made your choice

If you're starting out, it's best to start with what you'd like to get out of martial arts training, because there's a wide variety out there and not all martial arts address the same needs.

(Me? Wing Chun 2 years, a little bit of Tai Chi & Tai Chi sword, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu for 9 years)

[elainevdw]

Don't join a place that guarantees you a black belt in a year, or a new belt every several weeks or whatnot. We used to call that "fast food martial arts" when I was an assistant instructor in Choy Li Fut kung fu.

[nursenox]

I agree with a lot of what Lotus wrote, but that bit about the instructor having black belts in more than one art was a bit off. Better to be taught by a specialist

[Donkey]

Try several places at least twice. Not only is the instructor important but so is the quality of fellow students. Are the students supportive and friendly or do they keep to themselves? Are the students in good shape? You want students that will challenge you. How is the amount of contact controlled? As you get experience you will want more and more contact if you want to be able to defend yourself but you so much contact that you go to work with black eyes. The hardest part of martial arts is what I call "standing in the pocket". This means that you stand and fight instead of trying to fly around like a bird b/c you're afraid of being hit. It's a very tough balance to figure out.

I like instructors that have plenty of am and or pro fight experience b/c I think they make the best teachers.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by Niki

I want to train karate but i got a small problem. There are a few clubs to choose from and i really dont know how to recognize the best or the greatest. I want a good combination of kumite and kata.

If there are any karate experts on this forum, maybe you can tell me what i should look for in a club.

Thankyou .

I'm not a karate expert (or a karateka of any kind), but I'll posit a few questions:

Why are you training?
What kumite and kata? Dojos that do point-sparring kumite versus medium-contact or full-contact kumite probably have different training goals. Dojos that also do kobudo-kata probably have different training goals than those that do solely unarmed kata.

And, of course, what's that karate style's or dojo's preferred beer? Is it something you'd consider slamming down at a dojo meetup or after a tournament, or would you run away from it faster than you would from a more formidable opponent who happens to be armed?

[Amit_S]

The 1st thing to do is call them up and request very nicely whether they can teach you a fast karate course and give you a black belt in a few months. Also tell them that you are willing to pay more for the super fast black belt course. Those who reply in the affirmative -just ignore them.
I'm serious- this does happen.

After that ask for the age of the youngest black belt student they have. If you find anyone below 18 wearing a black belt or conducting a class -cross them off your list. Now there are exceptions to this rule. If there's this 15-16 year old kid who is competing in the adult division and winning-then yes. A black belt will be justified in this case.

Some other questions to ask for:
Is strength important?
If they say no then strike them off. Strength and conditioning is extremely important. A lot off Hollywood karate fighters say that all you need to do is learn the proper technique. Strength and conditioning don't matter. Not true.

Can you teach me how to take down multiple guys?
If they say yes- then again it would be best to ignore them. Anyone who has been in a real fight (sports tournament or otherwise) will tell you it's so damn
difficult taking down one guy- multiple guys is just not possible- at least not without weapons.

After that- I guess its up to you.
Why do you want to practice martial arts?
To defend yourself on the street? In that case I would recommend taking up boxing for a while. Compete in as many tournaments as possible and once you've won a few matches consecutively, then start taking shooting lessons and buy a hand gun. No amount of martial arts training will teach you how to handle yourself on the street as well as a gun in your hands.
(You might ask- If that's so then why boxing? That's to train your nervous system. So that you don't freeze up when adrenaline hits your system when you are accosted on the street.)

Do you want martial arts to fight better? In that case look for 'full-contact' karate schools. Look for Kyokushin. (If you want to know what full contact is then go to youtube and sarch for Kyokushin). Personally I would recommend Boxing , Judo, Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu over Karate. But thats personal preference.

Confidence? Then look for a sports oriented school. Not form based (kata / kuen) but real fights. Going toe to toe against others and holding you own ground against them will be great for self confidence.

Good luck!

[Niki]

I think it's going to be no karate for me. Maybe thai box. There are some good thaibox clubs here. It looks like all the karate clubs are showclubs(black belts even under 16, too much kata for me, ..) There is also a wingchun club i'm going to check out one of these days.

Thanks for the wonderful reply's guy's. You all saved me lots of wrong training time.

[Amit_S]

Muay Thai!
Cool!
just 1 thing- attend a class and make sure its a muay thai school- BEFORE u pay anything.
There are a lot of aerobic kickboxing schools out there.

[febflake]

@Amit_S:
Something I wonder.. would a good teacher accept you as a student if you come up with questions such as 'Can you teach me to take multiple oppenents down', 'Super fast black belt courses' ? Wouldn't he want to refuse a student with such motives ? Then how would you find a good teacher? What would a good teacher think of a student testing his morality ?

And on totally different note:
It seems to me Karate is really different in the US and in Europe. Looks much more like shotokan style with a lot of black belt given over Kata. What is the real situation ?

edit: I dared wrote 'chuck norris/walker texas ranger' style but I am not quite sure it is shotokan.

[Jams]

In response to "*The sensei or teacher should have at least a black belt, preferably in more than one form."

I would say at least 3rd dan black belt, i wouldn't ever consider training under someone who was a first or second dan. In Japanese martial arts a person is considered a capable instructor after 3rd dan, and a 'master' after 5th dan.

Another thing i would look for in an instructor is a direct inheritance from the founder of that particular art or style. For instance, i can trace from O Sensei (founder of Aikido), to Kancho Sensei (founder of Yoshinkan Aikido), to Sensei Crawford (my instructor), to myself. This means that the Aikido i'm learning is relatively pure and hasn't been diluted too much.

[Amit_S]

Originally Posted by febflake

@Amit_S:
Something I wonder.. would a good teacher accept you as a student if you come up with questions such as 'Can you teach me to take multiple oppenents down', 'Super fast black belt courses' ? Wouldn't he want to refuse a student with such motives ? Then how would you find a good teacher? What would a good teacher think of a student testing his morality ?

Hye!
Most of the good martial arts teachers out there are well aware of the perverse situation going on. Once you have found a good school and are having trouble signing up cause of the questions asked- you can simply tell them why you were
asking those questions. The good ones will understand.