How to recognize a good karate club?

[Niki]

I want to train karate but i got a small problem. There are a few clubs to choose from and i really dont know how to recognize the best or the greatest. I want a good combination of kumite and kata.

If there are any karate experts on this forum, maybe you can tell me what i should look for in a club.

Thankyou .

[JohnnyJimJams]

Hey Niki,

Most clubs provide the first lesson free (or first few free).

Try a few and see which instructor/s bring the best out in you.

[micth]

go round to each of the clubs and ask the instructors to break bricks with their hands...


...choose the club with the instructor that can break the most bricks

[Lotus]

Good dojo:

*Ditto to the above note about "free lesson" or three. You want to make sure you're comfy there before you start investing a lot of money in it. The sensei or teacher and the other students should want you to be there and to feel comfortable.

*Doors are open to everyone. If a paraplegic wheels in and says "I want to learn martial arts," she is welcomed with glee.

*The classes are broken up by age and ability so that everyone gets time learning at their skill level, BUT all ages and abilities are welcome to spar with one another for practice. In a good dojo, the better students will want to help those who aren't as good to progress. (There is a contact system taught to ensure no one gets hurt, and there is an agreed "release" signal if something starts hurting... usually "tapping out.")

*Some competition among students exists, but sensei or teacher doesn't favor the winners over the losers or vice versa.

*There is discipline in the dojo, but there's room for humor too. Flexible bodies, flexible minds.

*The sensei or teacher should have at least a black belt, preferably in more than one form.

*The sensei or teacher gives you lessons in philosophy as much as s/he gives you lessons in fighting, if not more. S/he will speak of her/his sensei with great respect.

*Other fighting systems, meditation, yogas, gymnatics, and other physical disciplines are valued.

*You'll usually sense a centeredness in the sensei or teacher and in the experienced students. It's hard to explain, but these people exude a quiet, but (unless they are sparring or involved in a formal competition for titiles) humble dignity and confidence.

*Criticism is given with explicit instuction on how to improve what you're doing wrong, usually manually or physically, at the time the criticism is delivered.

*"You need to practice more" is heard continually. "Very good, but do this slightly different" is heard quite a lot. "That's perfect" is almost never heard. "That sucks, only seppuku will save you." is never heard... in a serious way.

*After about a month, you feel very safe and comfortable socially, even if you're physically clumsy.


Bad Dojo:

*People are mean to one another, in-fighting develops.
*New students or those of lesser ability are picked on.
*The teacher is focused on fighting, not on developing mind.
*You feel uncomfortable... for whatever reason.

***
p.s. I'm not an expert, like you wanted to ask. I've only done karate since 99.

[MartialDev]

I've written two articles on this particular subject, see:
How To Choose a Bad Martial Arts Instructor
Scarcity and Abundance in Martial Arts Instruction

My advice is to visit all the martial arts instructors in your area before making a decision--not just the Karate schools. This is a big investment and you should exercise due diligence.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by MartialDev

I've written two articles on this particular subject, see...
My advice is to visit all the martial arts instructors in your area before making a decision--not just the Karate schools...

MartialDev,
This is very good advice, especially about the area instructors! I very much enjoyed "teaching from scarcity" vs "teaching from abundance" ... Makes me love my sensei even more.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by MartialDev

My advice is to visit all the martial arts instructors in your area before making a decision--not just the Karate schools. This is a big investment and you should exercise due diligence.

Ditto that if you're starting out in the martial arts, unless you've already made your choice

If you're starting out, it's best to start with what you'd like to get out of martial arts training, because there's a wide variety out there and not all martial arts address the same needs.

(Me? Wing Chun 2 years, a little bit of Tai Chi & Tai Chi sword, Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu for 9 years)

[elainevdw]

Don't join a place that guarantees you a black belt in a year, or a new belt every several weeks or whatnot. We used to call that "fast food martial arts" when I was an assistant instructor in Choy Li Fut kung fu.

[nursenox]

I agree with a lot of what Lotus wrote, but that bit about the instructor having black belts in more than one art was a bit off. Better to be taught by a specialist

[Donkey]

Try several places at least twice. Not only is the instructor important but so is the quality of fellow students. Are the students supportive and friendly or do they keep to themselves? Are the students in good shape? You want students that will challenge you. How is the amount of contact controlled? As you get experience you will want more and more contact if you want to be able to defend yourself but you so much contact that you go to work with black eyes. The hardest part of martial arts is what I call "standing in the pocket". This means that you stand and fight instead of trying to fly around like a bird b/c you're afraid of being hit. It's a very tough balance to figure out.

I like instructors that have plenty of am and or pro fight experience b/c I think they make the best teachers.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by Niki

I want to train karate but i got a small problem. There are a few clubs to choose from and i really dont know how to recognize the best or the greatest. I want a good combination of kumite and kata.

If there are any karate experts on this forum, maybe you can tell me what i should look for in a club.

Thankyou .

I'm not a karate expert (or a karateka of any kind), but I'll posit a few questions:

Why are you training?
What kumite and kata? Dojos that do point-sparring kumite versus medium-contact or full-contact kumite probably have different training goals. Dojos that also do kobudo-kata probably have different training goals than those that do solely unarmed kata.

And, of course, what's that karate style's or dojo's preferred beer? Is it something you'd consider slamming down at a dojo meetup or after a tournament, or would you run away from it faster than you would from a more formidable opponent who happens to be armed?

[Amit_S]

The 1st thing to do is call them up and request very nicely whether they can teach you a fast karate course and give you a black belt in a few months. Also tell them that you are willing to pay more for the super fast black belt course. Those who reply in the affirmative -just ignore them.
I'm serious- this does happen.

After that ask for the age of the youngest black belt student they have. If you find anyone below 18 wearing a black belt or conducting a class -cross them off your list. Now there are exceptions to this rule. If there's this 15-16 year old kid who is competing in the adult division and winning-then yes. A black belt will be justified in this case.

Some other questions to ask for:
Is strength important?
If they say no then strike them off. Strength and conditioning is extremely important. A lot off Hollywood karate fighters say that all you need to do is learn the proper technique. Strength and conditioning don't matter. Not true.

Can you teach me how to take down multiple guys?
If they say yes- then again it would be best to ignore them. Anyone who has been in a real fight (sports tournament or otherwise) will tell you it's so damn
difficult taking down one guy- multiple guys is just not possible- at least not without weapons.

After that- I guess its up to you.
Why do you want to practice martial arts?
To defend yourself on the street? In that case I would recommend taking up boxing for a while. Compete in as many tournaments as possible and once you've won a few matches consecutively, then start taking shooting lessons and buy a hand gun. No amount of martial arts training will teach you how to handle yourself on the street as well as a gun in your hands.
(You might ask- If that's so then why boxing? That's to train your nervous system. So that you don't freeze up when adrenaline hits your system when you are accosted on the street.)

Do you want martial arts to fight better? In that case look for 'full-contact' karate schools. Look for Kyokushin. (If you want to know what full contact is then go to youtube and sarch for Kyokushin). Personally I would recommend Boxing , Judo, Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu over Karate. But thats personal preference.

Confidence? Then look for a sports oriented school. Not form based (kata / kuen) but real fights. Going toe to toe against others and holding you own ground against them will be great for self confidence.

Good luck!

[Niki]

I think it's going to be no karate for me. Maybe thai box. There are some good thaibox clubs here. It looks like all the karate clubs are showclubs(black belts even under 16, too much kata for me, ..) There is also a wingchun club i'm going to check out one of these days.

Thanks for the wonderful reply's guy's. You all saved me lots of wrong training time.

[Amit_S]

Muay Thai!
Cool!
just 1 thing- attend a class and make sure its a muay thai school- BEFORE u pay anything.
There are a lot of aerobic kickboxing schools out there.

[febflake]

@Amit_S:
Something I wonder.. would a good teacher accept you as a student if you come up with questions such as 'Can you teach me to take multiple oppenents down', 'Super fast black belt courses' ? Wouldn't he want to refuse a student with such motives ? Then how would you find a good teacher? What would a good teacher think of a student testing his morality ?

And on totally different note:
It seems to me Karate is really different in the US and in Europe. Looks much more like shotokan style with a lot of black belt given over Kata. What is the real situation ?

edit: I dared wrote 'chuck norris/walker texas ranger' style but I am not quite sure it is shotokan.

[Jams]

In response to "*The sensei or teacher should have at least a black belt, preferably in more than one form."

I would say at least 3rd dan black belt, i wouldn't ever consider training under someone who was a first or second dan. In Japanese martial arts a person is considered a capable instructor after 3rd dan, and a 'master' after 5th dan.

Another thing i would look for in an instructor is a direct inheritance from the founder of that particular art or style. For instance, i can trace from O Sensei (founder of Aikido), to Kancho Sensei (founder of Yoshinkan Aikido), to Sensei Crawford (my instructor), to myself. This means that the Aikido i'm learning is relatively pure and hasn't been diluted too much.

[Amit_S]

Originally Posted by febflake

@Amit_S:
Something I wonder.. would a good teacher accept you as a student if you come up with questions such as 'Can you teach me to take multiple oppenents down', 'Super fast black belt courses' ? Wouldn't he want to refuse a student with such motives ? Then how would you find a good teacher? What would a good teacher think of a student testing his morality ?

Hye!
Most of the good martial arts teachers out there are well aware of the perverse situation going on. Once you have found a good school and are having trouble signing up cause of the questions asked- you can simply tell them why you were
asking those questions. The good ones will understand.

[MartialDev]

Originally Posted by febflake

@Amit_S:
Something I wonder.. would a good teacher accept you as a student if you come up with questions such as 'Can you teach me to take multiple oppenents down', 'Super fast black belt courses' ? Wouldn't he want to refuse a student with such motives ? Then how would you find a good teacher? What would a good teacher think of a student testing his morality ?

One of the problems with these "morality tests" is that they are usually tuned to find the next Mr. Miyagi, rather than a genuine and suitable teacher.

Or maybe it all works out for the best, when you find what you are looking for (even if you are looking for a Hollywood stereotype).

Originally Posted by febflake

...edit: I dared wrote 'chuck norris/walker texas ranger' style but I am not quite sure it is shotokan.

Chuck Norris learned Tang Soo Do.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by Jams

In response to "*The sensei or teacher should have at least a black belt, preferably in more than one form."

I would say at least 3rd dan black belt, i wouldn't ever consider training under someone who was a first or second dan. In Japanese martial arts a person is considered a capable instructor after 3rd dan, and a 'master' after 5th dan.

I'd have to disagree here. Not all martial arts even have belt ranks.
I can understand that an understanding of an instructor's qualification is necessary, though, and belt ranks where applicable may be the proxy that is most visible to someone who isn't experienced in the martial arts.

Even in the cases where they do have belts (you mentioned some Japanese martial arts), definitions of instructor qualification aren't always standardized or ascribed to any specific dan rank.

[Bleicke]

A good instructor will teach you Muay Thai.

[Bubblewrapman]

Don't do Karate, it sucks big time. Try Muay Thai boxing or a freestyle that is actually about fighting in real life situations. I can recommend Zendokai if they have it in your area.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by Bleicke

A good instructor will teach you Muay Thai.

A good muay thai instructor would, yes. Unfortunately, bad muay thai instructors would also teach muay thai, so it reduces to the same problem. Perhaps you could explain how to recognize a good muay thai club?

[Trezker]

How come no one posted the classic answer to these threads?

You should ask the instructor what to do in a real fight/when being robbed.
He should answer run or give the robber what he asks for, if he doesn't it's a bad club.

[MartialDev]

Perhaps none of us consider that a good answer?

[Richard McBeef]

Having studied in several schools with several teachers, and styles over the years I'd recommend that you visit each school in your area talk with the instructor, ask if you can observe a class, and make your decision based on which school/teacher you feel the most connection and comfortable with.

An excellent teacher in a martial art that you might not have considered previously can give you a lot more value than a mediocre teacher in a style that you consider to be prefect.

Things I would watch out for are contracts that require you to sign up for a given time, buy equipment, and so on, and a large number of injured students. Also be wary of schools that seem to use a lot of indoctrination, and promises of "secret" information. There ARE "secrets" out there, but this kind of school, and stuff can get seriously weird really fast, and without the experience to understand what's going on it can get difficult for a beginner.

Consider carefully what you want out of your devotion to martial development, and look for a teacher who can take you in that direction. Remember just because you study with someone even for years, doesn't mean you're obligated to stay with them for life.

I learned different things from each of my teachers, each one gave me lessons that took me on to my next stage. Eventually I did find a teacher who could teach me what I wanted, but it took years of gaining experience about the "martial marketplace" to know where to find him, and how to get the most out of the relationship, and be ready for his instruction.

So good luck to you!! Have a blast!

[Bleicke]

If the teacher and the other students are friendly to you and to each other, everything will be fine.

When I joined my Muay Thai school I was a bit scared. There were five or six hoodlums hanging out in front of the gym. I asked them if this was Muay Thai and immediately they said yes and smiled and pointed out the teacher nearby. I was friends with most of them after one or two lessons.

Another thing I like is when the older students (older as in more experienced) help the newer students. The teacher can't focus on everyone at the same time, so help from other people is always great.

Look for frequent sparring: in my Muay Thai school we spar for 4 or 5 rounds every lesson. In the Kickboxing school I went before that, we sparred every thursday. Frequency of sparring will depend on how sport oriented (vs. katas, etc.) the school is, but it should always be regular. I think sparring is one of the most important parts of martial arts training. It taxes the body a lot more than just hitting each other, gets you used to pain, keeps your head cool, teaches you strategic thinking, etc.