Masturbation

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Chinese Dragon

This is something that I've never been able to understand: Why exactly do people (especially Christians) view this as sinful? I just don't get it.

You know... with organized religion... anything that is fun has to be a sin...

However, wars are not seen as sins... go figger... maybe it's because it's not much fun...
.

[jsot]

You know, I should try doing this too. I'll start when school begins this week so it's easier to focus on something besides sex. >_<

[mlc82]

Originally Posted by Shamou

You know... with organized religion... anything that is fun has to be a sin...

However, wars are not seen as sins... go figger... maybe it's because it's not much fun...
.

Many organized religions also profitted greatly from wars.

[Truefire]

Originally Posted by jsot

You know, I should try doing this too. I'll start when school begins this week so it's easier to focus on something besides sex. >_<

Good idea. I live in a semi-tropical area, and man, it's too hard to concentrate sometimes. Pun, SO INTENDED.

On a serious note. Since starting the challenge, I've found myself more appreciative of female beauty in general. I'm far less judgemental about girls looks than when I started, which makes conversation all the more easy with the really cute ones because they're less objectified in my head.

It's like my brain is less focused on looks, while also appreciating beauty without necessarily falling into a sexual fantasy every time I see a hottie.

[stephencp]

While not necessarily the definative answer, here's a long article by a real expert:
Here's how to handle the problem of sexual desire and sexual urges and meditation or other spiritual practices

Stephen
Make sure you download your 117 free gifts and use them to improve your life.

Here is the link:
The Internet Largest Free Give Away Ever - ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[Matthew Shea]

I'm sorta kinda gonna jump on this bandwagon, too. I've given this matter a fair amount of thought and want to see if my sex life will get a boost from cutting back on masturbating. I haven't been perfect about it, but I've cut way back over the past couple weeks (since shortly after this thread started). We'll see what happens.

At this point, my wife and I aren't doing it any more often (babies have a way of really wearing you out), but yesterday we had some of the best sex in quite a long time. Perhaps I'll have to push to get the little tyke in bed early a few nights this week.

[Matthew Shea]

Oh, and for those who don't wish to join the challenge, remember:

[Mr.Mustache]

This thread caught my eye in a very strange way...I usually only post once in a while on the steve pavlina forum but spanking the monkey has been on my mind for the past few days.

I disagree with the 30 day challenge. There is no point. However, I think rubbing your stick in intervals instead of everyday is better, based upon my own experience. I agree that masturbation should be used to relieve stress and also that sexual energy should be brought up instead of being constantly drained. (You also get a stronger orgasm when you wait a couple days lol).

So, I guess I'm saying wacking it every other day, instead of everyday (or only after 30 days) is the best way. You don't get drained but you also get a release.

[Peter S C]

Originally Posted by Mr.Mustache

This thread caught my eye in a very strange way...I usually only post once in a while on the steve pavlina forum but spanking the monkey has been on my mind for the past few days.

I disagree with the 30 day challenge. There is no point. However, I think rubbing your stick in intervals instead of everyday is better, based upon my own experience. I agree that masturbation should be used to relieve stress and also that sexual energy should be brought up instead of being constantly drained. (You also get a stronger orgasm when you wait a couple days lol).

So, I guess I'm saying wacking it every other day, instead of everyday (or only after 30 days) is the best way. You don't get drained but you also get a release.

Yup.... those were my thoughts exactly.

LOL @ Ceiling Cat.

[Acting Like Godot]

Earlier this year in my country, there was a highly publicised case about a serial rapist who had violently raped several women before eventually getting arrested.

Anyway, bits and pieces of his personal life started coming out in the press. Apparently, he was a real charmer with the ladies (not the rape victims, but other women) and despite being lowly-educated, broke and an odd job worker, he was never short of girlfriends.

He also had an addiction to porn and masturbation and on days when he didn't get sex, he'd apparently masturbate himself anywhere between 7 to 14 times a day.

[Sourcerer]

Hello,

I've been over 20 days without masturbation not long now (I started again , and it is true - you do get an increased desire to talk to/meet women. In fact, I think you get more social overall. However, I also think that you *should* masturbate once in a while (or several times in a while), because the sperm quality changes if you don't masturbate. It looked a bit too transparent in my case and seemed to go towards gray, rather than staying white. Also, you might ejaculate more quickly if you haven't masturbated in a while. But that depends on how aroused you are when you start, I guess, which could be a lot given you haven't "tossed off" for so long.

So, if it's rarely been a day that you haven't masturbated for as long as you claim, I would suggest trying to hold back and not do it as often. Go a couple of days without it. Then a couple more.

Also, it's always better to have sex than to masturbate; but if you're very religious then, well, you are most likely only willing to see only one option, and that's not premarital sex.

[benway]

I think masturbation is basically a double edged sword. The sex drive, this screwy biological urge we have is basically a blessing and a curse. I cannot speak for how other people feel when they engage in the batty business, but I know for myself that after I do it I feel depressed, weak, slow, unmotivated, etc. and I feel guilty, not because I feel the thing itself is bad but the effects are bad and I know what the effects are before I do it but then I do it anyway. I think this is healthy guilt. However, if I abstain from it for too long, obviously I start going crazy, as anyone knows.

Anyway, this is all I know about myself, above. Howver, I think everybody could agree, though I may be wrong, that we are all different chemically, are balanced differently, that we have similar or the same chemicals, but they are balanced in different quantities. That is why some people are fat, and some people are thin, and some people are depressed, and some people are schizophrenic, and some people are hyperactive, and some people are pre-disposed to cocaine habits and others can't understand a cocaine habit but love to masturbate themselves till the cows come home, while their next door neighbour feels guilty about having just done it because he has a report due in at the office tomorrow and now has no energy to do it and so will probably fall asleep in front of the television with a beer in one hand and his dick in the other while his neglected wife wanks herself off in the other room over fantasies of Fabio, and never has a conscious thought about wether it is good or bad. Maybe her and the next door neighbour will hook up, since orgasming seems to have no noticeable affect on them physiologically.

Anyway, these people are not acting. They ARE fat or schizophrenic, or depressed, or have a drinking problem, or feel flat and unmotivated after they masturbate, and they may notice they have a problem, even if nobody else seems to or does not care for whatever reason, or thinks about things along the lines of "I read a scientific report somewhere which stated there was no harm or problems associated with masturbation to any individual and any opinion to the contrary is just puritanical religious nonsense. I just love a good wank, and you should too, or else you will go insane, so wank yourself! DO IT!" (the report just happened to be researched by Pfizer who produce Prozac and Viagra, and starts with a sentence along the lines of "continuing a well established line of research, it is well established as a medical fact that such and such a thing has no effects whatsoever).

To say that masturbation has no effect but to relax and relieve is still an effect, and what, exactly, does it relax and relieve? It must be relaxing and relieving something, not just your penis. If it was only your penis that was effected by the drive, your brain would just laugh at it (ha ha ha, silly thing, look at how tense it is. Oh well, better give it a polish. Seems a useless chore, really. Wish it would just stay down till I asked it. Mind of it's own. Penises these days, I tell you. Can't keep a good penis down, ho ho ho, why back in my day you'd never..." etc.) Well, it is relaxing and relieving something in your brain, not just your penis, but is this necessarily a good and necessary thing for all people? Is it a good kind of "relaxation"? Is relaxation always "good"?

Consider statements like "he relaxed his standards and had sex with the sheep" or "his sphincter relaxed and the **** came pouring forth like an unmitigated guyser at Yellowstone park".

Is relief always good? Eg "He was relieved of a portion of his frontal lobe after the lobotomy" or "He was relieved of his wallet."

"He was relieved of certain neurochemicals necessary to function on certain levels but which kept him in a state of tension and neurotic behaviour nonetheless. However, when relieved of these he was no longer capable of functioning on these levels and reduced himself to a state of masturbational emptyness. But he was relaxed. He relaxed his capacities and strengths."

Anyway, I think it is spurious to say that masturbation has no effect on the brain. The penis is inextricably tied up with and to the brain, and it may even be redundant to make a distinction between the penis and the brain, as they are the same thing in a way, like the eye for example. The eye is connected directly to the brain, through the optic nerve. You do not just see with your eye, though, you see with your brain. Similarly the brain is connected to the penis, though not by just one single nerve but by a good many connected nerves, much like a lightbulb which is not connected to a socket by one cord but by many cords linked together over a distance. Turn the light switch on, it will illuminate the room. Leave the light on, and it may be less noticeable when you are tired so you will have more trouble getting to sleep. Fiddle with the lightswitch long enough, and the bulb will blow out.

Anyway, to say that it is either the bulb or the socket which produces the light is inaccurate. They are both producing the light, and the energy and the mechanisms are not infinite.

Again, double edged sword. A blessing and a curse. The quantity of our chemicals and the time and frequency we should expel and mess with them are relative to our own problems. I know I go weak in the knees after sex or a wank, and I am not an un-muscley person. I once had real trouble walking up stairs after sex and blowing my stack. I think that says something. There are times to wank and times to not. For myself, I try to definitely not do it everyday or every week if I can help it.

I say keep the experiment going.

[benway]

What do you think, judging from the post above, do I need a wank? Cast your votes at Steve Pavlina dot com.

[ManifestingMax]

Hello All!!

This will be my first post on the forums, but as a guy, and one with some experience with this, I actually had to sign up and put my two jerks in...(between the title to this post and that first sentence...have I double entendra-ed enough yet?)

My other qualification is that I have done, already, exactly what you are doing, except I did it for 108 days, you read that right -- 108 days brothah. Dude, by the end, I could lift cars

I did it during a spiritual practice with my kung fu instructor. The practice was called the "Golden Bell." During the 108 days, there were physical exercises to do in combination with energy visualizing/feeling exercises to make the energy (that I wasn't releasing) surround me like - a golden bell.

Also, just for the record, I was living in Vegas at the time, working in a nice casino, where there was plenty of constant...feminine temptation. So I'm NOT saying it was easy! When you have 108 days worth of "grrr" waiting to get out, the ladies notice!

(On an interesting side note, about a week after I started, I met the women who is now my wife. That may really speak to the spiritual/social/sexual attraction aspect of it!)

My advice to you would be to DO something with this energy your not letting slip through your fingers anymore. Go to the gym, you will see crazy results. Meditate, you will go deeper. Create something, you will be super-focused. You probably noticed that you have a crazy amount of that creative (sexual) energy building up. This will attract everything from synchronicity to sexy ladies. You should do something productive with this energy, if you figure that every time you used to toss one off, you also tossed of enough potential energy to create a human life, you can the see the power you now have a your fingertips (or no longer have at your fingertips, depending on how you look at it).

Also, I think that someone (Max0r?) posted about when you ejaculate, you loose a bit of energy that you can't get back. I'm not sure if anyone has commented on this, but it seems to line up with Traditional Chinese Medicine philosophy. The philosophy being that the type of qi (energy) that semen contains (there are a few types) is your original qi (Jing qi, I think) and depending on which chinese medical expert you listen to, some say you should only ejaculate during the spring & summer, a few times in the fall, never in winter. Others say it depends on you age, (when your young, once a day is okay, but as you get older you should do it less and less, so eventually you're only releasing once a week, then once a month. etc.). So even within the Chinese medicine philosophy, there are different theories, so I doubt the "end all" answer will be found here in the SP forums, but it sure does make for one lively discussion

So dude.....GO FOR IT....and keep us all posted!!


PS. During my practice, if a wet dream happened it was alright, because that was different than taking things into your own hands, and I don't know if this is true with you, but with me, my wet dream release is different (I mean the actually semen is different) than during a waking wack.

[escapee]

Too much of Masturbation may not be good for heath as you lose a bunch of Zinc through excretion of Semen .

On the other hands, to my surprise ....

BBC NEWS | Health | Masturbation 'cuts cancer risk'

The prostate provides a fluid into semen during ejaculation that activates sperm and prevents them sticking together.

The fluid has high concentrations of substances including potassium, zinc, fructose and citric acid, which are drawn from the bloodstream.

But animal studies have shown carcinogens such as 3-methylchloranthrene, found in cigarette smoke, are also concentrated in the prostate.

Dr Giles said fewer ejaculations may mean the carcinogens build up.

"It's a prostatic stagnation hypothesis. The more you flush the ducts out, the less there is to hang around and damage the cells that line them."

[Herbalist]

ManifestingMax, and what about old good sex (for pleasure)? Are we losing energy also? Or something else happens (maybe depending on _how_ we do it)?

Thanks for your post! I'm very interested in the "energy loss through ejaculation" topic, and you gave me some insights. Now I'd like to research it a bit deeper.

[LightWork]

**** it, lets give this one a go. Starting, um, three days ago For the first time in 3 years, I don't have a girlfriend anymore, so it's an optimal time to try it. Not sure my partners would have appreciated it otherwise...

[supertom]

I did this with a friend we went for about 2 months, we happen to give up on the same day haha but it becomes normal after a while.

[ManifestingMax]

Hey Herbalist...in general the answer is, Yes. The evidence being right beside you. (speaking in general)... That's why after doin' the deed, guys role over and fall asleep while the ladies feel more energized. The women have actually taken the guy's energy ( & you thought they were only after your $$ The way to combat this loss of energy us to go either tantric, or learn to orgasm without ejaculating, which, I understand, is possible, but is something I have yet to experience....maybe I need to tell the wife I need more practice Apparantly, yogis & guys like Sting do this on a regular basis.

That's the just of it. Oh, and women don't get off scot free, they loose their energy through pregnancy & childbirth. It takes more out of them (for obvious reasons) but it doesn't happen as much as men ejaculate so it kind of evens out. Once again, some Chinese theories say that women lose a little bit of there original qi with their monthly cycle. There is anecdotal evidence of this with pets that are spayed living longer (no cycle = no loss of original qi) Tgere are even practices where the woman can stop her monthly cycle, just like a guy can keep from ejaculating....

If this is getting a bit too far out there for you, just tell me to shut up!

[Herbalist]

No, please tell more! Seriously. Thanks again for the info.

[escapee]

Once again, some Chinese theories say that women lose a little bit of there original qi with their monthly cycle.

In science, Women lose plenty of Iron , the mineral that help build hemoglobin to carry oxygen during monthly cycle.

[Erki]

They also lose quite a bit of toxic stuff too. This could help them live longer (than men).

[m18pak]

I've been trying to give up masturbation too because it was basically draining my energy to the point where I was too weak to face life. I feel so much better now that I've stopped since I've basically bought myself the necessary energy and time to do the things that I really want to do instead of obeying what my body tells me to do.

What I've found is that trying to stop with sheer force of will generally won't work, because the pressure will just keep building and building until something snaps, and usually it'll be your resolve. I've honestly tried to stop at least 5 times in the past but ended up doing it again with one to two days. This time was different though because I tried a spiritual approach, where I did a visualization everytime I felt the urge growing to sublimate the energy.

You can find it here if you're interested:
Real Jesus, sexual energy

[Sourcerer]

TBH, I have no idea what energy draining you are talking about. I have heard it said that after ejaculation most men just go to sleep (if at night). I also do not deny that sometimes after ejaculation sexual urge wanes. But that is not the rule, at least not for me.

I never feel exhausted after masturbating or having sex; in fact, most of the time I'm ready for more within a minute or two after the climax (just as soon as the sensation goes away). I don't even lose an erection unless the atmosphere changes to something other than sexual.

[ManifestingMax]

Hey Sourcerer..

Let the rest of us know what type of crazy ginseng-tabasco-viagra-voodoo mixture you're taking to keep your self so up & at-'em all the time. Or are you just 18 or something?

For the rest of us (Herbalist) there's a book called "The Tao of Health, Sex, & Longevity" by Dan Reid. It gives a great in depth look of exactly what the title describes. I find it good to pick through the information and see what I can fit into my life, and what is a little too far out for me.

If you want to do an personal experiment, there's a place you can push, right in the middle of your..well....t'aint (you know, between your jewels, and your main exit). ANYWAY...there's a spot you can push there just before you ejaculate, and well, you don't. You still orgasm, just the juice stays inside. You notice a difference in you energy level wen doing this, or at least I do. You also need a rather understanding partner. It's this same area/spot where there are muscles that you can train to do it without having to physically push from the outside. This same training essentially let's you have conscious control over your ejacualtion, as well as your erection. I've tried this technique, but usually, once I'm about to "peak" the last thing I'm thinking about is squeezing some masculine kegal muscle in my nether-regions, and I end up releasing outward instead of inward.

Boy, am I giving myself one hell of a reputation in these forums. (What's up with the new guy? He's a little weird with the sex thing)

So there you go...Let me know if I have reached the point of no return. I think I should spend a bit of time with the wife.

And Herbalist, either you and I are both freaks, cuz we're diggin this, or we're sane and the rest of the forum is laughing.

[LightWork]

Hey ManifestingMax that's really useful insight. I'm new here too, try posting on other threads too, be nice to see what else you know

Two interesting things with me - this is day no.5 now (more than I usually do) and I actually had a spontaneous sexual experience last night (no ejaculation involved) which is far from rare, but unexpected with this particular person, who I do find rather attractive. However I'm wondering if this is coincedental.

Another thing - I started the biphasic sleep routine 2 days ago and, WOW. Energy levels HIGH. I thought this was just the power of the routine, but A/ I've yet to get 4.5 hours sleep for, say, 4 days in a row (that'll kick it in) and B/ I'm doing this too, which is said to increase energy levels. I may have found a very clever idea - abstain from sex and masturbation for the period of time you adopt a potentially tiring sleep regime. Seems to work for me!

I swim every morning and run pretty much everywhere by the way - I'm far from inactive. So this is something special.

[Jamie]

Very interesting thread. I've also read (some of) Daniel Ried's book, and have a little experience with TCM and Chinese Health Arts. I imagine the energy loss assosiated with ejaculation, is refering to jing (pre-natal energy we are born with and inherit from parents), and is not replaced, like other energy we absorb from food and environment etc.

I really dis-like to masturbate, myself, because I feel it to be a little draining, and if I go for several days without, I do feel more power and energy from this, as a result. I'm going to do a 7 day abstain from masturbation, starting from today, just to see for myself the results. I also really don't like looking at porn. Yeah, it visually excites me, but for me, it kinda gives me a dirty unwholesome (sick) feeling too.

I am thinking, the most difficult part, is when I feel sexual desire building, and sexual energy is seeking to express itself (i.e. before masturbation begins). I can see the wisdom of redirecting this energy, perhaps in to micro-cosmic orbit (TCM), where the energy is circulated around the body. I will also avoid any stimulating images and such-like designed to provoke sexual desire.

Other than this, is there any specific advice, appropriate in this situation?

Jamie.

[Herbalist]

Sourcerer: sounds like you're 18 indeed. Wait until 30-40 and you'll understand

ManifestingMax: there are much weirder topics here, so don't worry As for the process you describe, I'm familiar with it, although never tried. And I've heard, this can be dangerous, because, doing this, you're actually redirecting your semen to your bladder. However, it's at the "rumour" level, and I've just recently started digging this topic.

Anyway, what I want to try, is plain ejaculation control. I mean, having sex without it, ejaculating, for example, once a week.

Jamie: try eating vegan. Hormones in meat stimulate your desire. And vegan foods make it controllable. Also try meditation and relaxation.

I can also advice some calming herbs, like Motherwort. Oh, and avoid hot spices, like pepper. In other words, eating like Steve during his trial would be perfect.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by ManifestingMax

If you want to do an personal experiment, there's a place you can push, right in the middle of your..well....t'aint (you know, between your jewels, and your main exit). ANYWAY...there's a spot you can push there just before you ejaculate, and well, you don't. You still orgasm, just the juice stays inside. You notice a difference in you energy level wen doing this, or at least I do. You also need a rather understanding partner. It's this same area/spot where there are muscles that you can train to do it without having to physically push from the outside. This same training essentially let's you have conscious control over your ejacualtion, as well as your erection. I've tried this technique, but usually, once I'm about to "peak" the last thing I'm thinking about is squeezing some masculine kegal muscle in my nether-regions, and I end up releasing outward instead of inward.

I've read about this also, I think in Mantak Chia's "The Multi-Orgasmic Man". I don't know if he mentions it, but I think this can be quite dangerous, as it needs quite a bit of force applied to prevent the flow of fluids through these correct channels, god only knows what damage you may do as a result. I suspect such practices may be best done under the guidance of an experienced teacher. I say this, because I've tried it myelf, for maybe 6 months or so (several years ago), and now this area can at times, feel a little sensetive. I think they call it the million dollar spot in Taoism?

It may well be better to just limit frequency of fluid loss, or re-utilise re-direct the sexual energy before it builds up to such an extent that you find yourself 'sporting wood'.

I'm also wondering if even in the case of orgasm without fluid loss, there is not some energy loss, perhaps less energy is lost because energy contained in the fluids themself are retained; just wondering if there is not some kind of chi outbusrt or loss, assosiated with the orgasm itself?

Just some thoughts.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Herbalist

Jamie: try eating vegan. Hormones in meat stimulate your desire. And vegan foods make it controllable. Also try meditation and relaxation.

I can also advice some calming herbs, like Motherwort. Oh, and avoid hot spices, like pepper. In other words, eating like Steve during his trial would be perfect.

Thanks, I try the diet change. I have no idea where to get some Motherwort though, any suggestions?