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| | #61 (permalink) | ||||
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007
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You know - the sex drive is only instinct which decreases when not satisfied, that's also the great difference from other human needs like food or water. Of course not after two days or two weeks of abstinence, maybe 3 months can bring substantial results. It does not mean that if for you guys is so difficult - it's utterly impossible. Quote:
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You cannot turn back the time and be back on the trees. And I even don't want to. | ||||
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| | #62 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007
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I want to add something to my previous post. What really differs man experience of sex from animal one? For me the most essential difference is that man can assign a meaning to it, an animal never does it. We can see in this thread how different and various meanings can be associated with sex and I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of them which were not mentioned. Even assuming that sex has no deeper meaning at all and is purely physiological phenomenon useful in releasing some tension is also based on some (very selectively chosen) scientific knowledge and has nothing to do with the pure, so called 'natural' worldview. Nowadays this kind of thinking gains status of common sense and becomes a part of social conditioning as well. Through advertisments, movies, tv we receive the message that sex is essential to our happiness, our well-being and not having sex for some time means that you are a kind of outcast, dork or oaf. Which is of course completely untrue. For me if you prefer lower quality pleasures like masturbation, casual sex and so on you simply miss the oportunity of experiencing something more exciting and demanding like building healthy, strong relationship. The choice is always yours. Maybe for many people it's too difficult, they are too strongly conditioned to not fear that if they will not masturbate the sperm stored will eventually blow up their brains. Last edited by moonlite; 08-02-2007 at 08:56 AM. |
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| | #64 (permalink) | |||||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moscow, Russia
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Of course, nobody dies from abstinence, but there are major health problems associated with it. Fortunately there is no way to force it really beyond the point of wet dream. The body is protecting itself from the negative effects of abstinense. And the stress of abstinence is always there. Now if there is the easy and natural way to fight this stress, why not do it? Why take the long and unnatural way, when there is a straightforward one? Quote:
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Having said that, it is not that hard to get to the animal level of behavior. I've owned a dog, and had a lot of time to watch it and to study from it. I know how it feeds, I know it breathes, I know it doesn't think. There are techniques that let you enter the "animal state" and go way beyond what can be seen on a Discovery channel. Quote:
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to the lair of a male, who they don't see as a sexual partner. They do not let males make their advances if they do not like them. They hit the male with claws and bite him till he bleeds. It is in human society, females are forced to be nice to an unworthy partner instead of clawing his face at a mere hint of inappropriate advances. Quote:
And there is no contradiction between acknowledging our nature and advancing our civilization. Roman Empire was one of the pinnacles of human civilization, however it was devoid of hypocrisy we are dealing with these days. It all comes down to what we believe, but having a part of yourself and clearly marking it as bad... Well, I believe it is bad for whoever does it. Knowing yourself, both animal and human traits is essential for growth. Shutting some parts away is harmful for growth. Then everyone decides for themselves. | |||||||||
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| | #65 (permalink) | |||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moscow, Russia
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Humans indeed are abstraction machines. Take hunger. It has no meaning other then to make us get food. But humans abstracted the pleasure associated with eating and created a whole culinary art out of it. Is it good? Can't say. This is a whole avenue of personal growth to pursue the good taste. But when it comes to a situation when people wouldn't eat something if is does not have a pleasant taste, this is an illusion of growth, it is actually a form of degradation. Coming back to sex. It's purpose is to breed. The rest is attached meanings. Some of them are benefitial, some of them harmful. And our strength should be in being free from these attachments and being able to choose what meanings we attach to sex or any other activity. Currently the huge layer of meaning attached to sex is the layer of social conditioning. Debates on monogamy-polygamy, homosexuality, masturbation, age of consent are part of it. And we've started tackling these issues mere hundred years ago at most. Speak about turning the time back. Quote:
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I should note that these days most long relationships are starting with casual sex. Quote:
And talking just about the quality of sex I have a strong feeling that both male masturbation and having multiple partners before entering long relationship helps. Not necessary, but helps. Quote:
People do it when they feel the need to do it. This need can be controlled, of course, but there is a point when controlling it becomes the waste of time and willpower and the returns diminish below any reasonable levels. | |||||||
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| | #66 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 462
| I'm excited that this thread got so big. As an 18 year old male, this is an issue for me, and this quote I think sums it up. The question we have to ask ourselves as aware human beings is, should we be addicted to it or not?? Whenever we say "addiction" everyone shutters, but in reality, I don't think being addicted to masturbating or sex is that bad of a thing. A man who masturbates once a day is shunned by society, but a man who has sex once a day is a pimp, player, mack, exc... Physically speaking, and putting all of the ego boosts from real sex aside, it is the same thing. Based on personal experience, I'm not sure how sexual energy works. I don't think it's as simple as, you release -> you lose energy. I think I said this in another thread, but people who are highly sexed, and those who abstain from sex both seem to have more of an energy boost that regular people. Who knows?? Hopefully someday we'll figure it out, but in the meantime, I'm gonna go meet some beautiful babies. Erock |
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| | #67 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 112
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I too, jerk to gherkin. I'm past the "right or wrong" stage that most guys face. When you really strip it down past all the cultures and dogmas that have plagued masturbation there really is nothing wrong with the practice. When you really think about it there is nothing right about it either. Nature (or God) created animals and human animals, both have gay sex and pleasure themselves, regardless of human cultural ideals. Masturbation is just there. You can do it or not, it is your choice. You should figure out why YOU choose to masturbate. Find out just why its such a need for you. How does it serve you? It is for sexual release? Or is it to space yourself out in a subtle way? I think they both boil down to the same thing. (Don't tell me you do it for the quoted health benefits or I'm going to have to smack you through your screen) Does it make you a better person? If so, then wank away son. If you find yourself more motivated to be all you can be when you don't slap the one-eyed snake, then you shouldn't. I'm one of the latter case, so I'm joining the 30day challenge here a little late. I think in the last few years the longest I've ever gone without jerking off is 20 days. I didn't succumb to sexual desire(read: I couldn't find a girlfriend), I caved and numbed myself through self gratification. Wet dreams and unconscious lusting don't count unless you are a lucid dreamer |
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| | #68 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 112
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And now, my take on sexual energy, at least from the masculine perspective. There is a polarity between masculine and feminine energy. Like Yin and Yang. They are both opposite and complementary. They are also naturally attracted to one another. Masculine men are attracted to feminine women and vice versa. Also, feminine men are attracted to masculine women and vice versa. For example, the well put together business women (masculine) is more attracted to the starry eyed sensitive artist guy (feminine) than her male boss(masculine). In a more conventional (and general) sense, women in general are more attracted to older men who have their life in order(masculine traits), and those men are more attracted to younger, full women in the flow of feminine energy. This masculine feminine polarity can be extended to the masculine relationship with the world in general. Pure Consciousness being the masculine, everything else being the feminine. Masculine emptiness, feminine fullness. Feminine women are just extremely concentrated forms of feminine energy, so in actuality there is little difference between your sexual tension with your woman, and your passion for the world. As Napoleon Hill mentioned, successful people are usually highly sexed as well. Imagine a very successful, self directed man in charge of his life. The kind of guy that knows what he wants and goes after it, without hesitation or regret. He stands tall, is immediately respected, and commands the world with his conscious presence. You know, that guy every feminine girl wants and who other guys wish they could be. There is a reason women find that kind of guy sexy. The natural masculine desire is the release of tension. All our lives are dedicated to creating and releasing this tension. We create hurdles and challenges to overcome. We need more money, so we make a plan and stick to it until it comes to fruition. Then we think that we will be able to finally relax being financially secure, but of course there is something else to conquer after that. Tony Robbin's calls those "quality problems." With each greater task to accomplish or goal to conquer, a greater tension between the masculine and feminine must be withstood. Greater goals require greater passion, and a greater ability to handle that tension between the masculine and feminine as the stakes grow ever greater. People both fear and desire that heightened sexual tension. Sure, you would love to be with a supermodel, but do you think you could handle her for even a day? Sure, you would love to be the CEO of a multi-million dollar company, but could you take that stress? On one hand you enjoy a greater quality of life, on the other you have to face that responsibility to maintain that tension and pressure and not give in to the vices of life. Masturbation is a subtle way to distract yourself from living life the way you want to deep down. The orgasm of masturbation is usually quick and to the point. Build up that tension using whatever lame fantasy you choose. lube up and stroke the shaft until you can't take it anymore and the dam breaks, you squirt your load in some lame excuse of an orgasm and you are finally freed of tension. Congratulations, you've mollified yourself. You have undercut your ability to handle sexual tension, and you have further ingrained a habit of breaking tension prematurely. Do you seriously imagine yourself in the future, successful, mutually sexually fulfilled by a wonderful woman, and still undertaking such a selfish and pointless ritual? Masculine/feminine theory borrowed in mostly from David Deida. Opinions my own. |
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| | #70 (permalink) | |||||
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007
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Unless they involve removing a huge part of my neocortex... Quote:
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| | #71 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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Most western spiritual disciplines originated in cultures where people could not grasp the concept of sexuality properly, they had no basis for it. Historically, sex is a taboo subject, speaking too liberally could get you killed. However, in eastern religions/philosophies sexuality is discussed in depth. (ie. tantric hinduism/buddhism, taoism, but not all sects of those) Masturbation is included in certain practices, however ejaculation is usually avoided. Don't quote me, this is second(third?)hand knowledge and I have never seen a monk bragging about his sexual prowess... You can quote me on this: I believe that we should all have more sex. If we all could get some, the world would be a happier place. Thats a fact. Last edited by Truefire; 08-03-2007 at 07:51 AM. | |
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| | #72 (permalink) | |||||||||
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Anyway, in my worldview sex means much more than making babies, afterall I'm not an animal. Quote:
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And that's the reason why it's so easy to do some sexploitation. If everybody was unhappy with masturbation and casual sex there would be no point in our discussion. Quote:
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That was my irony... And the wrong analogy once more. Now I don't understand. How controlling any need can be the waste of time, and how could it be waste of willpower??? I don't think of sex as a bad thing which has to be painfully restricted or better eradicated. I deem it powerful tool, a beautiful gift from G-d. A kind of power supply, wellspring of energy and joy to be used wisely. This is the way in which His light travels through worlds. And I could not imagine greater pleasure than being His light transmitter. | |||||||||
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| | #73 (permalink) | |||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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I have to add here though that crass oversexualization that mass media seems to do, doesn't mean openness though. Quote:
2) For me too, sex is about relationship. Masturbation can be about relationship as well - with yourself then. In that case, I feel that masturbation for release doesn't really count(and it very rarely feels good either). And if you say that sex is fun, relationship is difficult, and sex is about relationship, do you mean that sex is about difficulty? Quote:
Why do you repulse animality(is that a word?) so much? Where did cure furry animals go? | |||||
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| | #74 (permalink) | |||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 452
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You know, you can expect some to abstain from ejaculation, but you can't seriously expect boys not to get aroused. And once the arousal has started, the blood was drawn to pelvic area, the most healthy release is through orgasm or ejaculation. Otherwise you start having the problems mentioned above. Quote:
I've tried to find something on Google, but I just don't know where to start looking. Sorry, that I start sounding like a sect member, but I just can't find a ready links. My guess is it would deal with shamans, native americans, etc. There is also a very simple, but unhealthy practice of drinking strong alcohol, but I won't recommend it. Well, this is really off-topic in this thread, and I brought it up as a counterexample to the claim that we can learn about animals only on Discovery Channel level. Quote:
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| | #75 (permalink) | ||||||||||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moscow, Russia
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I agree with Erki almost on every point he makes, but I'll give my version as well. Quote:
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Abstinence will not kill an individual, it is much more dangerous. If allowed it will lead the species to the extinction. Therefore proliferation instinct is at least as powerful as feeding instinct. According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, food takes precedence over food. But since we are talking about healthy, well nourished individuals living in a safe environment, sex drive is the most powerful instinct at work. Quote:
"If" is the operational word in "if compulsive", isn't it? Quote:
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This is a claim that you can't possibly prove. And I can't really disprove it. For me masturbation was never a kind of withdrawal. How can I prove it? I can't. And you can't prove otherwise. That's like making any other unprovable claim. You either believe it or you don't. Now if we are not trying to start a holy war here, we need some provable claims here. Can you provide some? Or are you just speculating? I'd like to hear from the guys on trial what their achievements would be. That will be something to discuss. I expect to hear about more energy, more clarity. That's what I had after just a week of abstinence. I'm not expecting better appreciation of long-term relationships or better sex life. If this is reported, then we would discuss it. Maybe I'll sign up for the same trial then. Quote:
But if someone can feel happy from only some of these activities and not from the others, that, in my opinion would be something to worry about. Quote:
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Probably you think that it never goes beyond a frantic 10-second jerk in the bathroom that everybody starts with. Well, for some people it doesn't. It is the same as some bad lovers who never advance beyond a frantic 10-second poke. You know such guys exist, don't you? But it doesn't lead you to come down on sex. You use your experience with sex, which seems to be good. Why do you deny the existence of enlightening, skillful masturbation, that boards with meditation (no pun intended)? I can tell you from my experience that such masturbation exists. It is in fact a part of Tao sex teachings. But a man can not reach this level if he does not start with that first frantic jerk. Just like any good lover goes through a scary, confusing, and sometimes disappointing "first time". Quote:
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| | #76 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 452
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But those who do, do it for various reasons. One is to put everyone in a position of a sinner. By the way even in Christianity, masturbation is not a sin and is frowned upon because of Onan contradicting the custom of having sex with his dead brother's wife. Once you have everybody at a sinner's position it creates great amount of control. In Islam masturbation is piled together with any extramarital sexual activity. This is also a way to control the followers. In Hinduism nothing is said against or for masturbation. Neither in Buddhism In Taoism masturbation is encouraged as a practice that leads to the control of ejaculation and sexual energy. Some schools might prohibit masturbation for the reasons of building character, but I'm not sure about that. | |
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| | #77 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 62
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Day 6 (7-8 days). What makes it easier is not sending energy down to the dick in the first place. If too much energy gets sent down there, it can collect there and build up pressure. This pressure is felt as a fullness in the ejaculatory back-plumbing. I do not feel that fullness one bit. It's been 20x easier doing this than previous times. Gee I wonder why. By the way showing me pictures of women will not tempt me to masturbate any more. I'm not lying. This is true. First, I only find a small percentage of these pics to actually be attractive. Secondly, with this buildup of sexual energy I've noticed that if a picture arouses great lust (the picture has to be reallllllly nasty just the way I like it, but not in a way that grosses me out), the resulting feeling of energy from it seems to be evenly divided between my heart region, solar plexus region, lower gut region, and the penis. Hardness barely occurs, or comes in small spurts. Third, I prefer masturbating to videos anyway, but even the videos get the same result now. It seems I have to deliberately intend to move into my default masturbatory state to properly jack off to porn now, because it isn't automatically stimulating me in that respect. Interesting. |
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| | #81 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 462
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I think from a biological perspective, men become "addicted" to sex because there is a relatively small chance of a woman becoming pregnant in just one time (isn't it like 1 in 10 or something?). That's why it's easier to be on either a frequent schedule or completely celibate. In "nature," a man would have spells where he did not have sex at all, then form a relationship, have a bunch of sex (in this period he would become addicted, so that nature makes sure the woman becomes pregnant) and then have another long dry spell. This makes sense based on my personal experience, because I've done 30 day trials and such. It is hard at first, then it's really easy, but once I start again I immediately get "addicted" again. This emulates the natural relationships that I described above. Erock | |
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| | #82 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
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Im totally doing this 30 days with no Masterbation. I know It sounds odd me being addicted as a woman. But I am. Not only to masterbation to sex and porn. Im not really sure when I became addicted but its getting pretty out of hand I masterbate about 15 times a day to the point where I have nothing left to cum I just orgasm. I've masterbated driving down the road a few times iand in the bathroom at work. Ive also aquired an addicted to porn. I try to look at it every chance I get which would be about 20 times a day. And with the addiction to sex. Me and my ex had sex alot when we were were together for 3 years i would say we had sex about 1500 times when we were togther. Before we daited I had only had sex 2 times with 2 different people. After the breakup (which was a year ago) Ive had close to around 20 different sexual partners and had sex about 400 times. I am not at all a "whore" as everyone would call it but i really Am addicted. I made sure I used protection everytime and do not have Std's. I would love to be able to not masterbate or do anything sexual for a while do to the fact that I have a wonderful boyfriend who I am completly attracted to and this would be a big thing for him to do without also. I suppose I just need some advice. thank you. |
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| | #83 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4
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I'd imagine the most difficult part of masturbation addiction is trying to stop simply because it is so much a natural part of us as humans. With alcohol or drugs all you have to do is put them down, but with sex it seems fasr more difficult.
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| | #84 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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| | #85 (permalink) | |
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I'm not a Christian and still consider masturbation as something not to be proud of. | |||
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| | #88 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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Wow, this same attitude is exactly why I left the (christian) church I attended and organized religion in general... The idea of "My way is absolutely correct, your way definitely isn't, and I damn sure should be condescending toward those who think differently than me and choose what I consider the wrong path, even though I can't prove that my way is right and theirs is wrong beyond my own speculation" sounds like the main reason why I didn't stick around any longer than I had to... This reminds me why I also ran from the old religion/politics forum I used to post on, it wsa nothing but theists and atheists flaming each other over how their side was absolutely correct and the other was either wasting their lives or going to hell, not for one moment considering that just maybe, "spirituality" or whatever you want to call it might work differently for different people. Last edited by mlc82; 08-05-2007 at 05:05 AM. | |
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| | #89 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Jul 2007
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And I did not write that I should be condescending but asked Ilya what is his argument against being condescending, because I'm always interested how people support simultaneously an idea that this is wrong to be condescending and this is wrong to say that for me something is wrong. I think it is a kind of schizophrenia. It's illogical. Either you reject the whole idea of morality and then you have no base to say what is right or wrong or you accept some morals but then of course they are exactly like mine - the matter of faith. There are no scientifically proved morals. AFAIK Nietzsche has proved that rejection of the whole idea of morality is utterly impossible because soon it becomes replaced with different set of morals. It doesn't matter whether you preach them or they remain hidden - everyone can easily trace it in your way of thinking. Let me ask you one question: So you think that being condescending is wrong, can you explain me why? I can trace a bit of contempt (if not some ekhm, patronizing) in what you wrote about condescending behavior. | |
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| | #90 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
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