Polyphasic Beginnings

[watchmeunravel]

Greetings all,

First time poster, and a new reader as well. I am heavily interested in adopting a polyphasic routine into my college life, as I think I'd fit the mold of one who follows such routines. I adore naps and feel really refreshed if I get to the REM cycle in a 30-minute nap (and I usually do). With me, it's either I undersleep or oversleep it seems... I can never hit the target 8 hours or so a night, whether I block it off or not. With the summer break still in full swing, I think I might try to alter my sleep pattern to see how I fare over the semester if successful during the summer. But I had a few questions before I get the ball rolling:

-- Do I just jump right in or should I take a super siesta or "regular" night's sleep beforehand?

-- I'm a contact lens wearer, in which I am prescribed to remove them while I sleep at night and just leave them in during the day... with a new sense of night and day here, how should I rearrange this schedule?

-- Has anyone used Pzizz to go with their polyphasic routine? It usually gives me a good night sleep when I regularly use it for monophasic, and since you can set specific times for their Energizer module, I'm thinking this could be a great addition. Anyone else using this?

Hope all you polyphasic sleepers are enjoying it, it all looks good for now and I'm excited to get started.

--CB

[Sam988]

WOW, this makes me believe a bit more in LOA, because i was just going to start a thread in polyphasic sleeping to ask some questions, since im starting it in an hour or when i start feeling tired.

Originally Posted by watchmeunravel

-- Do I just jump right in or should I take a super siesta or "regular" night's sleep beforehand?

Well i'm going to start polyphasic in an hour and didnt get a "super sleep" even tho i've been sleeping for 10 hours a night for the last 3 days.

Originally Posted by watchmeunravel

-- -- I'm a contact lens wearer, in which I am prescribed to remove them while I sleep at night and just leave them in during the day... with a new sense of night and day here, how should I rearrange this schedule?

I'm a contact lens wearer too, and yes you should be careful about using it, i use it for no more than 12 hours a day, more than, for a few days on a row, that can get my eyes red and irritated. And since i dont usually spend more than 12 hours daily out of home, i just take off my lens when im home and put on my glasses.

Originally Posted by watchmeunravel

-- -- Has anyone used Pzizz to go with their polyphasic routine? It usually gives me a good night sleep when I regularly use it for monophasic, and since you can set specific times for their Energizer module, I'm thinking this could be a great addition. Anyone else using this?

Never heard of it.




-------------------------




NOW TO MY QUESTION (THE ONE I WOULD CREATE A THREAD FOR), SOMEONE ANSWER IT PLEASE SOON BECAUSE I'LL GO TO SLEEP SOON TO START MY POLYPHASIC SCHEDULE

Here it is: Is there a significant gain in energy (or resistence to drowsiness in adaptation period and energy&alertness level once adapted) between a six 20-minute nap schedule and a six 30-minute nap schedule? That would be 2 sleep hours a day against 3 sleep hours a day, does it make any difference, since it seems like ppl who have been on six 20 minute naps seem to be alright?

[Minsc]

Some advice(I haven't been able to successfully do it but these helped):

-Keep a dim light on during the night... It'll help you wake up. You don't have to do it during the day as long as you keep a window open or something. I started doing this when I forgot to set my alarm and slept for quite a long time... It'll help in that situation to.

-Have one alarm close to you and another a bit farther away. The second should be far enough so that you have to get up and turn it off but not so far that you can't hear it. They should go off at the same time, and should preferably make noise after they go off forever until you stop them(I.E. they don't stop the alarm after a certain time).

-I have to set my second alarm 10 minutes later than the first since it has some warning beeps before it goes off.. Not sure if it'll help.

-If you're going to use the computer a lot, kneel in front of it instead of sitting in a chair. You should probably get a pillow or something to kneel on. As long as you don't sit on the pillow, you won't fall asleep... Practice when you aren't sleepy to make things more comfortable when you need to use it, so you won't decide to sit on it or something. If it gets uncomfortable, stand up and use it again after some time standing.

-There will be some times where you oversleep and can't remember what happened. You'll have to piece together some clues to figure it out. It'll help to have something to give you info about it(I wrote a screensaver that just tells you when it was started and how long it's been running for).

-Most people who implement the schedule successfully seem to use 30-minute naps at first.

-You might end up sleeping on the floor or something if you oversleep. Expect to have some numb limbs then and some red marks. One time I slept with my legs on a heater and burned one pretty badly(enough to leave a big red scar).

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Minsc

Some advice(I haven't been able to successfully do it but these helped):

-Keep a dim light on during the night... It'll help you wake up. You don't have to do it during the day as long as you keep a window open or something. I started doing this when I forgot to set my alarm and slept for quite a long time... It'll help in that situation to.

-Have one alarm close to you and another a bit farther away. The second should be far enough so that you have to get up and turn it off but not so far that you can't hear it. They should go off at the same time, and should preferably make noise after they go off forever until you stop them(I.E. they don't stop the alarm after a certain time).

-I have to set my second alarm 10 minutes later than the first since it has some warning beeps before it goes off.. Not sure if it'll help.

-If you're going to use the computer a lot, kneel in front of it instead of sitting in a chair. You should probably get a pillow or something to kneel on. As long as you don't sit on the pillow, you won't fall asleep... Practice when you aren't sleepy to make things more comfortable when you need to use it, so you won't decide to sit on it or something. If it gets uncomfortable, stand up and use it again after some time standing.).

Thanks for the advices. The struggle i got ahead of me is going to be hard i hope i can make it through the first weeks, which seems to be when most people fail.

Originally Posted by Minsc

-There will be some times where you oversleep and can't remember what happened. You'll have to piece together some clues to figure it out. It'll help to have something to give you info about it(I wrote a screensaver that just tells you when it was started and how long it's been running for).

-Most people who implement the schedule successfully seem to use 30-minute naps at first.

-You might end up sleeping on the floor or something if you oversleep. Expect to have some numb limbs then and some red marks. One time I slept with my legs on a heater and burned one pretty badly(enough to leave a big red scar).

Lol man im scared now. I didnt know things would get that extreme. Oh well seems like driving is forbidden then on these first weeks.

As long as i dont unconsciously throw myself out of the window or something i think i can handle the drowsiness amnesias.

[Sam988]

Took my nap from 6:30am to 7am then took a shower and took a breakfast.


I'm feeling kinda tired but not too much and i think its only going to get worse along the way of adaptation.

I woke up and got out of bed very easily once the alarm went on thats a good thing but i wonder when the sleep deprivation gets too big if im still going to get out of bed so easily.


Well time will tell

[Sam988]

I've got another question for the polyphasic sleepers or ex-polyphasics out there.


In the adaptation period, can you read and get it in your head? Because i've just started polyphasic and already dont feel very much like reading or exercising my brain very much, i'd much rather just stay still looking somewhere in space.

[Calculusaurus]

Welcome to the boards.

Originally Posted by watchmeunravel

-- Do I just jump right in or should I take a super siesta or "regular" night's sleep beforehand?

I recently went the "cold-turkey" approach to Uberman adaptation. That is, I jumped right in and started sleeping 2-hr a day from day one.

I recently obtained Stampi's book, Why We Nap. I haven't finished reading (and rereading) it, but it's clear that among the blogging community, there are a lot of misconceptions about polyphasic sleep. One misconception is that the cold-turkey approach is the only way to adapt. There are reasons to believe that a gradual approach -- start with six 80-min naps and gradually decrease their length to 20-min -- works well.

I recently blogged about my cold-turkey adaptation approach. It's a long article, but I think there's a lot of valuable information in it: Adapting to Polyphasic Sleep by jseely.com

-- Has anyone used Pzizz to go with their polyphasic routine?

I love pzizz. It seems to work really well for me. I use the voice on intro and outro, for a length of 25-30 minutes.

There will be about 2-4 naps of the day that will be very difficult to wake up from (this occurs during a dip in your circadian rhythm, which surprisingly stays in tact even for polyphasic sleepers). During these "hard naps," the pzizz "alarm" won't be enough to get you up.

I created a pzizz MP3 then used an audio editing program to add 2 or 3 hardcore techno tracks (rave music) in place of the beeping. Those get me up just fine. Be extra careful. Your brain will work autonomously while sleep deprived. So unless you train your brain to wake up from this alarm, you will unconsciously unplug your earphones and go back to sleep.

I'm a contact lens wearer..

Not sure about contact lenses, but invest in some eye drops or anything else that will aleviate dry eyes. My eyes became unbearably dry around day 6 or so.

In the adaptation period, can you read and get it in your head? Because i've just started polyphasic and already dont feel very much like reading or exercising my brain very much, i'd much rather just stay still looking somewhere in space.

I wrote about this in my Uberman adaptation article (Adapting to Polyphasic Sleep by jseely.com).

Reading is very difficult. Keep yourself busy with noncreative tasks like cooking, organizing, or cleaning. Also, take walks while listening to audiobooks on an ipod when you feel like a zombie. When your alertness levels are high, you will be able to do other tasks (I played piano and did artwork, for example).

[Sam988]

Sh*t i overslept



Went to take nap at 10:30am and woke up at mid day. Didnt even hear the alarm as i saw later that i didnt turn it off.


I've been using one alarm only so far but today i'll buy another one a loud one so i guess i'll hear two alarms at the same time.

[Erock]

Watch out for early success, because my sleep schedule (3 hour core and 3 20 minute naps) was really successful in the beginning, but like a week later it started to get really hard. I can't seem to shake this morning fatigue, and I'm starting to think I should switch to something else.... It's been 17 days now, so you would think it would get better by now.

Erock

[Sam988]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

I wrote about this in my Uberman adaptation article (Adapting to Polyphasic Sleep by jseely.com).

Loved your relating about your experience, calculusaurus.

Already downloaded citrus alarm clock, waking up with the sound of my favorite music is something that might work to turn me from zombie to a conscious being.

[Sam988]

Some observations about today (the first polyphasic sleeping day)

1. I overslept my nap at 10:30am until mid day, and couldnt get any nap after that, i would lie in the bed without falling asleep; its already 7pm now and i still cant take any nap

2. I felt cold THE WHOLE DAY, my hands always freezing, no matter what i eat or do (they only got warmer after 15 minutes of jogging, but this was the only time in the day)

I must make the observation that its winter here now, so its more difficult to keep to this polyphasic schedule

[Erock]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

Welcome to the boards.

I recently blogged about my cold-turkey adaptation approach. It's a long article, but I think there's a lot of valuable information in it: Adapting to Polyphasic Sleep by jseely.com

Wow dude, I really gotta ask, after doing so well for 10 days, why did you go back? You obviously had the dedication to continue it.

Erock

P.S. you inspired me to continue my weaker version of the Uberman schedule (3 hour core and 3 20 minute naps)

[Minsc]

Originally Posted by Sam988

I must make the observation that its winter here now, so its more difficult to keep to this polyphasic schedule

Speaking of winter, another thing you could try is to sleep in the cold. Get rid of most of your blankets, ect, and use a thin sheet instead, if anything. If you're cold then, try sleeping in your clothes. So I guess it'd be easier in winter. Some more advice:

-Also, not being able to sleep during naps would make it easier to oversleep later.

-A cold shower will wake you up. Or, you could splash cold water on your face, which will work very, very well for a second or two. Cold showers have a longer-lasting effect.

-Your alarm clock should be a kitchen timer, since it'll let you sleep for exactly 20 or 30 minutes(or however long). You'll also want to have it never stop going off and make it as hard as possible for you to stop it(ex. a design where you have to press two buttons to stop it). I'm usually in a pretty confused state after I wake up so I won't know what my alarm clock is or how to turn it off, so I'll press random buttons in hopes of stopping the alarm and going back to sleep so that I can oversleep. If I'm in this state long enough(if I can't stop the alarm), I'll snap out of it, realise what I'm doing, and get out of my bed and turn the lights on, ect.

-And playing a video game might help if you're at the computer(one that requires quick reactions instead of something like solitare). The kneeling works very well though.

-Don't ever lay down unless you intend to sleep... If you want to lay down, you're probably pretty tired... If you're like me, you'll keep deciding to lay for a few more seconds until you fall asleep and will wake up two hours later.

-Also, you might be in a stupor after waking up(which only happened to me once so it's pretty uncommon).. If you're like me, you won't be able to think... Your thoughts will make no sense. You'll somehow end up doing everything correctly even though you can't think properly...

The time it happened to me was after a short nap.. I wasn't really tired before the nap, but really was after it. It was painful to be awake, because I was so tired... I was afraid to stop standing since it might make me sleep, and once I leaned in a corner and considered sleeping like that. During this time, I had to go to the bathroom, but I didn't know what it meant... I had the feeling of wanting to go to the bathroom but didn't know how badly or that I should actually go to the bathroom.. Eventually, I decided to go for some reason. After that, I had to go again but someone was using it.. I played Kingdom of Loathing quite a bit recently and thought that "I have to go to the bathroom, but I'm out of adventures! What do I do?!". In KoL, you get a certain ammount of "adventures" every day and you use them to do stuff in the game. After that, I took a series of naps to see if I could get better.. I decided to sleep on the floor, and it felt like the most comfortable spot I'd ever slept in at the time... They helped a bit but I decided to just sleep with no alarm afterwards..

[Calculusaurus]

Originally Posted by Erock

Wow dude, I really gotta ask, after doing so well for 10 days, why did you go back? You obviously had the dedication to continue it.

Erock

P.S. you inspired me to continue my weaker version of the Uberman schedule (3 hour core and 3 20 minute naps)

I mentioned the answer briefly in the article -- admittedly, the answer might have been easy to skim over.

I had to stop the Uberman adaptation because I started a full-time job on day 11. My hope was that 10 days would have been enough to adapt. It wasn't. My estimate is that adaptation, for me, takes around 15 days, with probably another 15 days to really iron out any glitches.

My full-time job involves doing mathematics research, so at no cost could I afford decreased mental performance. I had to shift focus to my job.

Like I mentioned, however, my body didn't want to go back into full monophasic. I kept waking up within a few hours of nocturnal sleeps, and I have maintained the 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, and 12am 20-minute naps. In the past couple weeks, my body might prefer full Uberman one night, then a 3-hour core next night, then a 7.5 hr core the following night, then Uberman again. Regardless of my nocturnal habits, I am always taking my daytime naps. Energy, of course, is rather high.

So I'm still polyphasic. Just not fully Uberman. I'm on a free-form quasi-polyphasic schedule. 2 days ago, however, I decided to gradually move myself into full Uberman. I'm sleeping 90 minutes during my nocturnal naps, and 20 min during my daytime naps. I will gradually decrease the nocturnal episodes over the course of a few weeks until they are also 20 min in length. Even a few days in I've noticed that I rarely sleep the full 90 minutes of my nocturnal naps.

[Sam988]

Hah Minsc, thanks for the tips.

Originally Posted by Minsc

Speaking of winter, another thing you could try is to sleep in the cold. Get rid of most of your blankets, ect, and use a thin sheet instead, if anything. If you're cold then, try sleeping in your clothes. So I guess it'd be easier in winter.

-A cold shower will wake you up. Or, you could splash cold water on your face, which will work very, very well for a second or two. Cold showers have a longer-lasting effect.

No, thanks man but i dont really feel like torturing myself so much in the beggining of the game, i guess after some more time not much of me will be left

Seriously, about sleeping in cold, i think it's not a very good idea because since im sleep deprived my body is weaker and sleeping in cold would only weaken my immunologic system further. The last thing i want now is to catch a flu in addition to being sleep deprived... I dont want to know how that feels like.

Originally Posted by Minsc

-Also, not being able to sleep during naps would make it easier to oversleep later.

Yea, thats why i try to get all my naps, but as i said i had overslept in the day so i just couldnt fall asleep. Now i want to make an observation about this; even though i was feeling tired and drained of energy, i still wasnt able to fall asleep! I would just lay in the bed tired and off energy but couldnt sleep. Now its 2:45am and i already overcame this problem, took 2 naps since i had written my previous post.

Originally Posted by Minsc

-Your alarm clock should be a kitchen timer, since it'll let you sleep for exactly 20 or 30 minutes(or however long). You'll also want to have it never stop going off and make it as hard as possible for you to stop it(ex. a design where you have to press two buttons to stop it). I'm usually in a pretty confused state after I wake up so I won't know what my alarm clock is or how to turn it off, so I'll press random buttons in hopes of stopping the alarm and going back to sleep so that I can oversleep. If I'm in this state long enough(if I can't stop the alarm), I'll snap out of it, realise what I'm doing, and get out of my bed and turn the lights on, ect.

Right now i have 2 alarms, one is my cell phone and the other is a software alarm in my pc. This software alarm i thought was really sweet because it made my pc play any music i wanted at the time i set it to play it, and i thought that would easily wake me up, but last time i almost overslept because u unconsciously turned the music off on the pc and when i got conscious i was sitting in my chair in front of the pc... really weird.

Originally Posted by Minsc

-Don't ever lay down unless you intend to sleep... If you want to lay down, you're probably pretty tired... If you're like me, you'll keep deciding to lay for a few more seconds until you fall asleep and will wake up two hours later.

I still didnt get to the point where just sitting down or laying down will get me to sleep. I can still sit and watch a movie in a dark room wihout falling asleep or getting that feeling that you cant keep your eyelids open. Maybe i'm not sleep deprived enough since im just starting day 2 now.

Originally Posted by Minsc

-Also, you might be in a stupor after waking up(which only happened to me once so it's pretty uncommon).. If you're like me, you won't be able to think... Your thoughts will make no sense. You'll somehow end up doing everything correctly even though you can't think properly...

The time it happened to me was after a short nap.. I wasn't really tired before the nap, but really was after it. It was painful to be awake, because I was so tired... I was afraid to stop standing since it might make me sleep, and once I leaned in a corner and considered sleeping like that. During this time, I had to go to the bathroom, but I didn't know what it meant... I had the feeling of wanting to go to the bathroom but didn't know how badly or that I should actually go to the bathroom.. Eventually, I decided to go for some reason. After that, I had to go again but someone was using it.. I played Kingdom of Loathing quite a bit recently and thought that "I have to go to the bathroom, but I'm out of adventures! What do I do?!". In KoL, you get a certain ammount of "adventures" every day and you use them to do stuff in the game. After that, I took a series of naps to see if I could get better.. I decided to sleep on the floor, and it felt like the most comfortable spot I'd ever slept in at the time... They helped a bit but I decided to just sleep with no alarm afterwards..

Yea something like that actually happened yesterday morning, the beggining of day 1. I went to take a nap at 6am (didnt sleep all night) and woke up at 6:30am and as usually went to take a shower. I had dreamed something about being in china and about chinese mobs or something cant remember anymore so well.. Anyways when i was in the shower i was pretty much like you said, in a state where reality and dream mixed. I felt like some part of the dream mixed with the reality, maybe i was still a character of my dream or something, its a really weird state. I wasnt thinking very well, i was probably not wide awake yet, but after a while in the shower i came to my senses and then got fully conscious.

[Jugga J]

Another important point is when you get to the point your waking up before the alarm and getting REM sleep, don't get over-cocky and let your guard down. It's what I did, i was so close and then I just screwed it up. That was last year anyway. Today me and my dad are starting together, which should be loads more help, I'm on summer hols, he runs his own business. So it suits us both. Anyway..good luck Sam

[Erock]

Originally Posted by Calculusaurus

I mentioned the answer briefly in the article -- admittedly, the answer might have been easy to skim over.

I had to stop the Uberman adaptation because I started a full-time job on day 11. My hope was that 10 days would have been enough to adapt. It wasn't. My estimate is that adaptation, for me, takes around 15 days, with probably another 15 days to really iron out any glitches.

My full-time job involves doing mathematics research, so at no cost could I afford decreased mental performance. I had to shift focus to my job.

Like I mentioned, however, my body didn't want to go back into full monophasic. I kept waking up within a few hours of nocturnal sleeps, and I have maintained the 12pm, 4pm, 8pm, and 12am 20-minute naps. In the past couple weeks, my body might prefer full Uberman one night, then a 3-hour core next night, then a 7.5 hr core the following night, then Uberman again. Regardless of my nocturnal habits, I am always taking my daytime naps. Energy, of course, is rather high.

So I'm still polyphasic. Just not fully Uberman. I'm on a free-form quasi-polyphasic schedule. 2 days ago, however, I decided to gradually move myself into full Uberman. I'm sleeping 90 minutes during my nocturnal naps, and 20 min during my daytime naps. I will gradually decrease the nocturnal episodes over the course of a few weeks until they are also 20 min in length. Even a few days in I've noticed that I rarely sleep the full 90 minutes of my nocturnal naps.

Yeah I had read the part about starting your job, but I figured you had done so well that you wouldn't have wanted to give up. I understand though, there is no way you can think really hard if you are not fully adapted.

Erock

[Minsc]

Originally Posted by Sam988

No, thanks man but i dont really feel like torturing myself so much in the beggining of the game, i guess after some more time not much of me will be left

You'll get used to cold showers, and you'll probably like them a lot more than hot ones... (I doubt you'd get a cold from it)

If you don't want to take them, though, you could still try the water-on-the-face thing. It's not uncomfortable at all, but not as effective.

About the sleeping in the cold, the important thing is to wear more clothes when sleeping and get rid of your blankets, which won't necessarly make you colder. But if you're very sleeping and you're worried about oversleeping when you nap, you could try actually sleeping in the cold.

[openeyes]

Minsc, I take cold showers most of the time now and indeed find them to be more enjoyable and invigorating than warm/hot showers. A warm shower can be excellent for making you sleepy, but in starting out with polyphasic that's not necessarily what a person wants.

And Calculusaurus, excellent article. I went ahead and checked out the book you'd referenced, Sleepfaring, and am already finding some useful information in it. One thing it mentioned is that having a 2500 lumen light (particularly white light with a slight blue tinge) on from about 2-4 am completely suppresses melatonin production and improves alertness (page 109).

Since nights are the most difficult for a lot of people, this could really help. To produce 2500+ lumens an average light may be ~300 watts, while a fluorescent could be ~65 watts. I found one of the latter on an ebay store for about $23 with shipping.

edit: actually 150 watts could be enough, ~40 watts for a compact fluorescent. go for a light with white light and a blue tint (maybe called daylight or full spectrum). The light at this link looks like it would work. If I get it I'll report back on how it works.

40 Watt Compact Flourescent 5000K Full Spectrum CFL