Alcohol

[Stephen]

This topic crops up from time to time in tandem with personal effectiveness and I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Personally, when I drink alcohol, it generally clouds my thoughts and I become ineffective in thinking and planning. Even a glass or two of wine will be enough to allow procrastination back in through the back door. Thus, I tend not to drink alcohol that much, (never whilst working) and only occassionaly at night.

It also doesnt do your 5 am early rising any favours, to boot.

I have never found alcohol to be a 'problem' but have occassonaly overdone it on a 'night-out'.

But in my late 30s now, I can see more and more that it is more of a curse than anything, and I have witnessed people around me make life changing mistakes and health breaking habits all from the bottom of a bottle.

For this reason, I am considering ditching alcohol for good. I dont take any other form of stimulants and even shy away from over the counter and prescription medices: rather I let my body win any health battles along with the help of a good vegan diet.

Anyone else like to share their opinions on this?

[Andrew Brunelle]

I am 20 right now and I hardly ever drink alcohol. As a matter of fact, I've only done it maybe six to seven times and it was only one or two drinks each time. I really did not enjoy the taste, nor did I enjoy the way I was acting afterwards. I had a very narrow focus and I really could not get any work done or anything, so I would definitely not recommend it. Although I cannot be sure if it completely clouds my mind, I'm sure it does not help with personal effectiveness. Although I'm sure there are some days where anyone could use a drink...

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

I am 20 right now and I hardly ever drink alcohol. As a matter of fact, I've only done it maybe six to seven times and it was only one or two drinks each time. I really did not enjoy the taste, nor did I enjoy the way I was acting afterwards. I had a very narrow focus and I really could not get any work done or anything, so I would definitely not recommend it. Although I cannot be sure if it completely clouds my mind, I'm sure it does not help with personal effectiveness. Although I'm sure there are some days where anyone could use a drink...

Hi Andrew

I think your cultural and social backdrop makes a big difference to your experience of alcohol. I am a Scot, living in Ireland and I can say that both of those countries has a real problem with alcohol. Ireland far worse than I could possibly imagine.

Socially if you tend to work with a group of people as employess, the probability of going for a drink after work and the infamous work night-out are larger than life. they often end up spiralling individuals to self destruction.

Also many jobs seem to have that macho drinking image attached to them like the military for instance.

Often people are so unaware of where they are in life that they dont recognise they have a problem. I also think that their may be a preponderance genetically for some people.

[Adam Sargant]

I have experiemented with periods of complete abstinence... the first time, there was a moment about two weeks in when I realised that this was probably the first time in my adult life that I experienced consciousness unclouded by the influence of alcohol... it seemed to take that long before a sudden and profound change took place. Since then I do drink socially, but the periods of abstinence get longer, and the change in the quality of awareness is noticable

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Adam Sargant

I have experiemented with periods of complete abstinence... the first time, there was a moment about two weeks in when I realised that this was probably the first time in my adult life that I experienced consciousness unclouded by the influence of alcohol... it seemed to take that long before a sudden and profound change took place. Since then I do drink socially, but the periods of abstinence get longer, and the change in the quality of awareness is noticable

I wonder Adam, did this 'sudden' change occur to you because you refected on it and eureka! or did it creep up on you and hit you on the back of the head, so to speak? This mental clarity, somewhat sums up what alcohol robs you of.

[Focus]

I really think it depend on the person. I'm 20 and I can say for sure that it's one of the worse thing for me. I used to take alot of it and I was in a 'blah' mindstate most of the time. I don't think I'll touch that stuff again. It's just me though ;-).

[Adam Sargant]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I wonder Adam, did this 'sudden' change occur to you because you refected on it and eureka! or did it creep up on you and hit you on the back of the head, so to speak? This mental clarity, somewhat sums up what alcohol robs you of.

Oh it was definately the latter... *thwack* I remember walking up to my daughter's school when I noticed that everything looked different. clearer, sharper, more lucid. And then it hit me, that the internal experience matched the external perception. Everything was clearer, brighter....

And it is interesting that the clarity vastly exceeded that of which I would previously have associated with sobriety. It wasn't enough not to drink alcohol to experience it, I had to not to have drunk alcohol for weeks.

[Matt]

This article sums up my feelings on the subject.

[jfalconer]

For me, it's a strange and unpredictable thing.

Sometimes I will find I am shut off to reality. If I am really affected I'll do stupid things that no conscious being should do.

But just recently, after a couple of beers and a few more bourbons, myself and a good friend had one of the best conversations I've had, on existence and reality, energy, the Source, and how the concept of God ties in. I've never felt more conscious, and I've never felt more close to reality and oneness with existence. It was a strange experience, and I felt it for days afterward. In fact, I'm still feeling that strange feeling of oneness and unusual understanding now, though not to such a degree that I did at the time.

At the time I thought it might be a passing novelty thanks to the alcohol, but as time went by I found that I really did experience something that raised my consciousness to a new level that I could not use words to explain now, while I could use words after drinking alcohol.

I think, while alcohol can be really bad and lead to bad experiences, it can also lower your inhibitions and allow you to experience and reach for things you could not before. A trade off and a gamble. You probably won't reach anything spectacular or new, but just one time, you might.

It's probably a bad thing but it can lead to an incredibly good thing. Judgement? Don't use it. It's more harm than it's worth, and you're only getting lucky if it does lead to an incredibly consciousness-raising situation.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by jfalconer

For me, it's a strange and unpredictable thing.

Sometimes I will find I am shut off to reality. If I am really affected I'll do stupid things that no conscious being should do.

But just recently, after a couple of beers and a few more bourbons, myself and a good friend had one of the best conversations I've had, on existence and reality, energy, the Source, and how the concept of God ties in. I've never felt more conscious, and I've never felt more close to reality and oneness with existence. It was a strange experience, and I felt it for days afterward. In fact, I'm still feeling that strange feeling of oneness and unusual understanding now, though not to such a degree that I did at the time.

At the time I thought it might be a passing novelty thanks to the alcohol, but as time went by I found that I really did experience something that raised my consciousness to a new level that I could not use words to explain now, while I could use words after drinking alcohol.

I think, while alcohol can be really bad and lead to bad experiences, it can also lower your inhibitions and allow you to experience and reach for things you could not before. A trade off and a gamble. You probably won't reach anything spectacular or new, but just one time, you might.

It's probably a bad thing but it can lead to an incredibly good thing. Judgement? Don't use it. It's more harm than it's worth, and you're only getting lucky if it does lead to an incredibly consciousness-raising situation.

Hi jfalconer

Dye think that maybe the 'best conversation' you had was because it was merely a coincedence and in no way related to the alcohol? Perhaps that you just felt good that day and you both 'connected'.

I hate to give alcohol any credit, to be honest. I more or less think its dangers outweigh dramatically any benefits.

[madgeylou]

i like to drink. i've never had a problem with it, but like jfalconer, i have had some of the most amazing nights in my life whilst drunk -- great conversations, great feelings of connection, great amounts of fun and laughter, swinging on swings at the top of a hill so that you feel like youre going to fly off the edge of the world. good times with good friends.

maybe we didnt *need* the alcohol to have those great times, but we had it, and the great times still happened, so i definitely dont see it as a damaging thing, at least not for me.

luckily, i dont like it enough to have a problem with it. if i go several weeks without drinking, i barely notice it. it's certainly no hardship.

i am definitely a big believer in the power of drugs to transform a person's consciousness in a powerfully positive way, though, so maybe that's why i have good experiences.

[angelicfruit]

I think your cultural and social backdrop makes a big difference to your experience of alcohol. I am a Scot, living in Ireland and I can say that both of those countries has a real problem with alcohol. Ireland far worse than I could possibly imagine.

I agree. As an Irishman I know from experience how deeply alcohol is ingrained in our culture. The old Guinness ad sums up some of the drinking attitude.. "Drink Guinness, it's good for you/Guinness gives you strength". Most social events in Ireland revolve around alcohol. I think historically Ireland has a strong association with alcohol and also the climate has a lot to do with it. I imagine if we had a climate more like Spain the drinking culture would be radically different.

I'm living in London now and alcohol is a major social lubricant here too, although less so than Ireland.

I've drank my fair share of alcohol in the past 10 years and this is the 1st month in all that time that I made a conscious decision not to drink it. Since Nov 1st I have not had any and don't intend to for at least 30 days. I know I don't need to drink to have fun, and I'm perfectly able to not drink - the challenge for me is changing my social life/circle so it doesn't revolve around alcohol.

It is interesting that in all the time I have drank alcohol that I never questioned why I was drinking and how seriously it impacted on me. When I did reflect on this I realised that alcohol was one of the primary factors for not meeting some of my personal goals.. such as meditating daily, eating well, getting up early and being productive.

It's been a real eye opener for me.

[dmaterialized]

Originally Posted by madgeylou

i like to drink. i've never had a problem with it, but like jfalconer, i have had some of the most amazing nights in my life whilst drunk -- great conversations, great feelings of connection, great amounts of fun and laughter, swinging on swings at the top of a hill so that you feel like youre going to fly off the edge of the world. good times with good friends.

maybe we didnt *need* the alcohol to have those great times, but we had it, and the great times still happened, so i definitely dont see it as a damaging thing, at least not for me.

luckily, i dont like it enough to have a problem with it. if i go several weeks without drinking, i barely notice it. it's certainly no hardship.

i am definitely a big believer in the power of drugs to transform a person's consciousness in a powerfully positive way, though, so maybe that's why i have good experiences.

Sorry for the long quote, but I have to agree with most everything you're saying. I'm twenty, male, and in college, which means I basically am expected to drink, haha --I used to not like it, a few years back, but I've come to completely agree with madgeylou here. I have had some of the best nights of my life while drunk, and enjoy drinking, and while I'm sure such nights would have been good either way, I honestly feel that there is a responsible way to use the "clouding" effect as well as an irresponsible one. One cannot do "work" while intoxicated. That much is clear, and for that purpose alcohol is a very big problem. One can, however, learn about other aspects of themselves while drunk and this is what I think leads to real utility.

I, too, feel that one can use drugs in a way that can lead to very real personal breakthroughs, but that this is very hard to do. I decided to stop getting high with my friends (we're talking maybe twice a month, if that) because I recognized that it for some reason made me sad roughly 2-3 days afterwards, without fail. A short time after making this decision, though, I gave in and smoked with them (I'm not sure why)--and had one of the most profound, life-altering nights of my life. The ideas, conversations and thoughts I had that night have ramped up major aspects of my life--changing the way I see myself, my life purpose, and my place in the universe, permanently. This isn't the "stoner goes 'woaaaaaah'" kind of thing, this was my own thought, uninhibited, leading me to profound conclusions that have stayed with me. I am CERTAIN that these kinds of thoughts would have occurred at another point without the use of anything illicit, and I don't intend to keep smoking, but I do realize there is a very real purpose for one's use of such things.

I think that anything in the world can conceivably give us insight, and I try to gain as much perspective/awareness as possible wherever I am. That's what PD is about in the first place, isn't it?

[Polonius Funk]

What about "nothing in excess, including self denial"?

I enjoy drinks in moderation, but when I make it a habit to have a beer at dinner I find I get *nothing* done for the rest of the night.

That said, there's nothing wrong with having a drink with friends, I think. Are you really going to be tackling a major project at that point? For me, one of the pleasures of spending time with friends is putting all the "to-do" aside for a bit and just savoring the moment. Sure, it's great to get things done, but it's also important to give your mind some downtime. My wife and I have been started socializing with our child's friend's parents, and it's a great exposure to new ideas and new people.

As others have said, I think that it does have dangers - some of you have mentioned the college drinking culture, and I think that in that context alcohol is deliberately used as a tool to cloud judgement - it's no coincidence that new freshmen drink the most and they're also going through a major life change (change is scary, leaving home for the first time is scary - even though it's taboo to say this, and drinking to excess is typically characterized as newfound freedom!). College freshman take part in a ritual of mass self-drugging: clouding their thinking and taking comfort in the fact that there's hundreds of their peers doing the same thing right there next to them.

I've always found it odd that doing "crazy" things while under the influence of mind-altering substances is more noble than doing crazy things while sober, at least in this age group. It's the pressure of conformity, I guess.

[Nova]

I don't know the lyrics of the national anthem. I don't have a flag of my country. But relaxing and enjoying a Belgian Beer? That's one act of patriotism that I'm not giving up.

[Rat-race]

I had a problem with alcohol a few years ago. It slowly crept up on me. Now I only drink socially, and never if I have to perform any task that requires a clear head.

I hope to make a small portion of my living from writing, and to do that, I need a clear head. Even one beer is enough to force me to pack it in for the night.

[elainevdw]

I've only had one unpleasant incident related to alchohol consumption. I don't drink often -- maybe a margarita every month or two, or a glass of wine or champagne at a family occasion. It's relaxing, and I usually contribute more to conversations after a beer or something. It's not in situations where I'm out to impress anyone.

I'm not sure if this makes a difference, but I'm one of those people who doesn't like eating when I'm upset. Adding alchohol to the mix is an absolutely aweful feeling. So I'm not the sort of person who drinks their sorrows away. Perhaps that makes a difference.

And as far as hangovers are concerned -- DRINK WATER! My brothers took me out on my 21st birthday to learn how to play craps and drink all sorts of different kinds of things. Before I went to bed, they convinced me to drink an entire Double Gulp cup full of icewater. Slept like a baby and felt right as rain the next day. The "bad incident" I had was the one time I didn't drink water. Now I drink at least equal amount of water to alchoholic beverages, if not more.

[Leonard]

I've never felt any effects of how alcohol, if taken in moderation could cause my effectiveness to dip. Neither have I seen an increase in effectiveness as well. But anything beyond my threshold, I do feel getting a little excited, other than having a full bladder.

[Fizzgig]

I do believe that alcohol has a debilitating effect for much longer than people realise after being consumed. You may feel ok, but your reactions and sensitivities can still be affected for many hours. Yes this is from personal experience! Alcohol can have its place, but never when you have responsibilities for anything other than yourself.

[Nneka]

Everything in moderation.

I don't drink a lot. By that I mean about once or twice a quarter and it really doesn't affect me. Part of it is cultural. Growing up in Trinidad, I learned to drink socially with food and dancing. Today, when I go out with friends, it's not the focal point of the evening. I didn't grow up with that habit.

I would say that for about 3 months one year I went out for a glass of wine every night after work with co-workers. I still woke up early and I was exercising for about 45 minutes in the morning. However, the entire culture of going out for a drink after work to talk about more work became a problem. It didn't impair my ability to get the job done, but it did impair my receptivity to my True Self.

I think it was the whole package though, not just the act of drinking.

[jfalconer]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Hi jfalconer

Dye think that maybe the 'best conversation' you had was because it was merely a coincedence and in no way related to the alcohol? Perhaps that you just felt good that day and you both 'connected'.

I hate to give alcohol any credit, to be honest. I more or less think its dangers outweigh dramatically any benefits.

It certainly could be a coincidence. I just find that the content and nature of the conversation itself would tend to imply that the alcohol forced us to subconsciously drop some barriers and limiting beliefs. It still could have been completely unrelated, though.

I too hate to give alcohol any credit, and I rarely drink it. But nothing is ever quite so black and white as that; like those stories were the villain ends up rescuing the protagonist from death in the end, something that is overall dangerous and evil can still cause minute, isolated acts of good.

[Amit]

When I was 12, we moved to London and brought an Off License. (Liqueur store). I began drinking as a result but at the age of 15 I consciously made a choice not to drink. I had never gotten to the point where I was drunk and so last year I truly wanted to know what the fuss was all about so I went on a stag doo to Amsterdam with some friends and I decided to join in and drink because I objectively wanted to know why people drank.

I didn't enjoy the experience. Naturally, I'm happy, fun loving and outgoing. When I drank I became a grumpy, moody git who seemed to have terrible mood swings. I only wanted to try it once and I knew I would never drink again because I guessed that it would seriously affect my spiritual development.

I am definitely against alcohol because it affects my ability to make choices and my choices are what shape my life.

[Shaden]

I drink out of respect for all the lives the foul intoxicant has ruined. I wouldn't want their mistakes and the words of warning to fall on deaf ears. I also don't like the taste of the stuff and I think it shrouds our spirituality somewhat. I've never given into peer pressude in that sense and my friends and family accept my teetotality with great humanity. I feel fortunate that I was born into a group of people who never put pressure onto me to do something I knew wasnt right for me.

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by Focus

I really think it depend on the person. [snip]

I completely agree with this. Personally, I drink very infrequently these days and it's limited to 1 or 2 drinks in a social situation where personal effectiveness takes a back seat to relaxing and enjoying the company of your friends and family. The next morning I'm back to my normal self (not that my brain is very much affected anyway) and life moves on. There have been instances where I've had way too much to drink, but after a day of recovery time, it was back to normal.

For those people that feel alcohol is a negative influence in their lives, I would say it's a very personal matter and, if you feel that way, by all means cut it out of your life. You'll be a stronger person for it.

[JohnnyJimJams]

I asked myself all of these questions and more.

The best question I asked myself was... what would my life be like with out alcohol?

So I decided not to touch any for all of 2006, and I haven't.

Just quietly though... bring on 2007.

[ahimel]

I can't stand the taste of alcohol; the most I ever managed to get down was 1/2 a beer. I didn't notice an effect, but since I was listening to a concert at the time, I don't think I would have.

I think it's unhelpful to try to classify alcohol as "good" or "bad". It has various effects on the human body, and you have to decide whether those effects are good or bad for you. Since in general it lowers conciousness and inhibits intelligence, I would say that in general it's bad. But there are certain circumstances where a single benefit could potentially outweigh that.

Alcohol does dampen social inhibitions. If this allows you to to discuss something with someone that you wouldn't be willing to discuss while sober, this could be a good thing. Or it could be a bad thing. But if you end up having a conversation about God and Truth and obtain insights from it, then it was a good thing this time. If a shot of Tequila is the only way you'll ever stand up to your overbearing mother and tell her that you're a grown-up now and you'll live your own life, then it was a good thing this time. If a beer or two is what it takes for you to talk to that cute guy and possibly develop a relationship, then it was a good thing this time.

My grandmother-in-law was instructed to start drinking by her doctor. She had some plaque buildup in her arteries, and he was concerned about prescribing drugs to a 90-year-old woman. So he told her to drink 1 glass of red wine each day, and come back in a month to see if it had helped. It had, with no ill side effects. So in this case, it was definitly a good thing.

A couple years ago, I tried a job as a financial advisor. The way that company was set up, that meant calling people to see if I could set up appointments with them. I had referrals from people I'd worked with, so it wasn't "cold" calling, but I'm incredibly shy, and I have a deep phobia about telephones, and the daily hour-long dial session just about killed me. My boss suggested that I go get a drink; it might help me relax just enough to actually complete a phone call. After a few successful calls, I might have learned not to fear it so much, but I was so scared that I screwed up every time.

The job wasn't right for me in a lot of ways, and I don't regret being fired, but I can't help thinking that I'd be a better person today if I'd faced that fear. If it had taken one drink/day for 2 weeks for me to do that, I would have said that alcohol was a good thing.

In an extreme hypothetical situation, suppose your fiance got shot, and your resulting sorrow caused your work performance to drop so much that you got fired. You come home to your empty apartment, pull out a bottle of whiskey and a gun, and sit there, trying to decide which one to use. In this case, although you are using it to numb yourself, to deliberately take away your conciousness of the current situation, I'd have to say that alcohol is a good thing. It gives you time to learn to get over it. And yes, it's entirely possible that you'll then have to learn to get over your new crutch, but it's still an improvement on dead.

I think the best option for you is the same one angelicfruit is using -- do a 30-day trial, and decide whether it's had a positive, negative, or null effect on your personal development.

[Lucas]

I love having a good beer with my dinner, especially if it is mexican food. I rarely get drunk, maybe once every 3 months. Maybe I will try a 30 days with no alcohol and see if the boost is worth it, but good beer is a little pleasure in life that I really enjoy.

Actually, I am going to do a 30 day trial without any alcohol.

[Ibanez]

Using alcohol in moderation shouldn't be a problem. However, I can understand how it can be a crutch to some people. For instance, maybe a guy uses alcohol to meet women because of his shyness, but he should work on that sober instead.

[Strangemagik]

I put unsure. I've never drank enough to know. I'm one of the few 28 year olds that have never EVER been drunk.

[Dbarker]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJimJams

So I decided not to touch any for all of 2006, and I haven't.
Just quietly though... bring on 2007.

I, too, have had extended periods of not drinking. Three, in fact, of at least a year. I understand your last statement JJJ. Each time, I felt like I "needed" to quit due to excess drinking. But, during that time, I never felt any more effective. I actually did feel better physically, but I was also running and working out, and I think I feel pretty good when I do that whether I'm drinking or not.

I do find now that I drink in moderation, as others have suggested and feel that it is not the alcohol that inhibits our personal development/effectiveness, it is the other choices we make outside of that.