Dropping out of U.S. Health Care system

[jbischke]

I'm pretty much done with the U.S. Health Care system. As Michael Moore's new movie is apt to point out we're spending almost a sixth of our GDP on health care and yet we're near #40 in the world in terms of quality. In the last year I've had insurance companies deny claims for me for the sole reason that I wanted a couple of tests taken that they deemed "preventative." We have a system where if you have horrible health habits and want to wait until something is really wrong we'll cover a lot but if you're healthy you'll get charged pretty much the same premiums and can't get a basic test to run to prevent problems down the road.

Anyway, I'm contemplating dropping out. In other words, dropping all coverage except for catastrophic (e.g., some sort of accident). I'm wondering what the best way to do this is. I'd love to hear from other people who were frustrated with U.S. health care but otherwise healthy and decided to shuck the system. I have a feeling more and more people will do this as we realize how incredibly bad the existing system has become.

OK, done with my rant. Would love to hear thoughts.

[TheIronStar]

Originally Posted by jbischke

Anyway, I'm contemplating dropping out. In other words, dropping all coverage except for catastrophic car (e.g., some sort of accident). I'm wondering what the best way to do this is.

Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

[jbischke]

Funny (or not) as I was thinking the very same thing as I typed that up. I even inserted the word "car" without intending to as that's certainly high on the list of things I'm concerned about (i.e. getting hit by something and not being covered). I guess that's a by-product of living in LA where drivers can be...well, crazy.

Anyhoo, I think not having insurance at all is probably a bad idea and at the same time I'm in really good health, eat well, etc. and paying the same premiums as some dude who sits on his ass and eats junk food doesn't make any sense to me.

[Michelle]

One of the best things I ever did was to move to Switzerland. I don't know how anyone can claim that the quality of life in the US is high compared to over here. While a teenager in the US I broke my foot and with no insurance waited hours and hours for poor treatment at the hospital. In the end, my foot healed badly.

Fast forward to a few months ago when I had to go the emergency room here in Switzerland. There was no wait, several people cared for me, and it was very clean with the newest technology. With my mandatory Swiss health insurance I pay ten percent of everything which amounted to about 20 US dollars in that case. I am always telling my Swiss friends and colleagues that they live in paradise and don't even know it. For them it is normal that things work smoothly and well. And I daresay they consider good health care a human right.

I know it isn't probably feasible for you to move, but there must be a way to do better for one's self in the US. If I were to live there now, I honestly don't know what I would do. I might actually look to have myself insured in another country.

[Dan.Linehan]

You know things have gotten pretty bad when moving out of the US seems like the best option. I can't even argue, it seems like America has become so... I don't even know what we've become lately? Complicit mostly. We're digging ourselves some holes lately.

I do have health insurance right now, just because its free at work; I pay $0 to maintain it, so I have it, but in general I could care less if I was covered or not.

Let's say I didn't have any insurance and I got in a bad car wreck. At the risk of sounding irresponsible, I'd get fixed up by the hospital either way, right? Insurance coverage would be about the last thing I was worried about. If I had to file bankruptcy or whatever afterwards because of medical bills, so be it.. I don't see how that affects me all that much.

If someone has insurance their medical bills are covered after an accident because they're paid for by the people who pay into the insurance system. If they don't have it, the hospital has to eat all the bills they've accrued. Then the hospital has to raise rates by a couple cents for everyone else. That, in turn, ends up billing the insurance companies more anyway, so the bills still get paid for by the people who pay into the insurance system. I don't really see the difference between the two scenarios, at the end of the day the people paying into the system pay for everyone regardless.

I can't say that I feel any kind of ethical obligation to maintain insurance just because our society isn't bright enough to universalize coverage. That's our society's fault, not mine. And paying into a broken system perpetuates its problems rather than solving anything.

For example, if we didn't have anyone paying into the insurance system it would simply collapse, causing immediate and drastic reforms to take place, but instead it keeps going this way because people keep feeding into it. So why should I feed into it too, doesn't that make me just as complicit as anyone else? Why should I pay into a system that I fundamentally disagree with?

I know people seem more responsible when they are covered by insurance, but I really question the validity of that perception. I just can't see any greater good in contributing to our system the way it currently runs; supporting it validates the idea that health care coverage is something that should be paid for only by people who can afford it, rather than recognizing it as a basic societal right for every citizen.

This is mostly just my instincts and gut talking, as well as a lack of having any better answers. I'd really like to hear what everyone else thinks. The situation is so screwed up that I don't know what to do about it beyond completely removing myself from it.

[Doku]

jbischke: I don't have time to look it up now, but there are some other posts here on these forums about HSA medical accounts... I think that Steve uses that system, actually.

Dan.Linehan: So, you're just expecting the other people to take care of you? Kinda reminds me of the government handout programs... just helping lazy people stay lazy. I'm reminded of a teacher that my wife used to work with. She asked her senior class a question: "Where do you plan to go to college or work once you graduate?" The one kid's answer? "College? Work? Oh, hell no! I ain't doin neither." "Then how are you going to earn a living?" "Earn a living? You mean get money? Why work when the government will give me a check just like pops!?"

[escapee]

The strength and weakness of std conventional health care - Mercola

[RT Wolf]

Move to Canada. Universal health care.

That's not even funny, a knew a guy who was an american who came up here to live here for a few years to get the citizenship, because he said its actually cheaper to break a leg and come to canada to get fixed up rather than trying to get fixed up down in the states. I don't know the validity of that, but it is an interesting situation.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Doku

So, you're just expecting the other people to take care of you?

You got it backwards buddy. I'm healthy, yet the system expects me to carry insurance and pay for everyone else. Why should I?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I don't have health insurance at the moment. I am healthy for the most part. A little while back I was having a lot of nausea and went to a clinic to get checked out. I paid the $320 or so out of pocket from my savings. If I were to get in a car accident, I have full coverage on my car which also covers medical. If I am walking down the street and someone runs over me, I think the ball is pretty much in their court. If I were to have some other kind of accident (like falling off a ladder at home or something) and couldn't pay the full emergency room bill, I would negotiate a payment plan with the hospital and pay it in full.

I don't see a benefit to me of having health insurance right now. It's something like $400 per month (after half being paid by my employer). I would do better to just put that much per month in savings (or one of those HSAs).

I have often thought of moving to a country that knows what they are doing, but so far I am still in the US.

[Adrienne]

I agree here as well. I carry insurence, but it is only for big things, and honestly, i am not a follower of conventanal meds, so even if i were to get sick, i would see someone insurence companies dont cover like a natural health care person.
I have thought about dropping it all together. I took a look at all those little things insurence companies give you, turns out they have save me around 40 bucks a year.. well since i pay more then that a month..

Adrienne

[AirBreather]

Originally Posted by jbischke

I'm pretty much done with the U.S. Health Care system. *snip*

"Dropping out of U.S. Health Care system" - I thought that can't be done with something that does not exist... /silly. :P

...And I saw SiCKO as well. Intense stuff.

[dcaldwell]

Saw SiCKO as well. Nice timing, great movie. Most of the horror stories I've heard from my American friends relate to the insurance companies RE getting things approved. Most of the horror stories from my Canadian friends relate to the care they receive in-hospital.

Moore misrepresented the Canadian system though. Do not think we have true universal health care. We have universal "principles", but how those principles are executed varies by province, so what I get in Ontario is not necessarily what I get in Alberta. In Ontario, adult optical and all dental isn't covered, so if you don't have private insurance for those you'll pay out-of-pocket. One of my kid's dental jobs just cost me $1,500. In my last job, I set up the company's benefits plan, and the company's largest family (mine, in fact) only had to pay $150/m for full family coverage.

[Jim]

If you never get sick, definitely check out an HSA. Generally, your employer will contribute X number of dollars per month and you can contribute more money up to $2800 per year (at least that was our cap at work, I don't know if it varies).

Since you don't get sick, you can keep that money in a high yield savings account (e.g. HSBC or ING) and the money will keep working for you. Consider it as one more retirement savings account.

Just my two cents worth. In 2006, I had a host of medical issues and for the most part was very satisfied at the service that I received from the hospitals. There weren't people spilling out into halls, service was prompt at the emergency room, and from what I can deduce, all of the diagnostic testing that they put me through appeared to be right on par for what was needed.

On the flip side, dealing with those medical bills was definitely a nightmare and the whole process needs an overhaul.

My point is that I was quite pleased with my quality of care, but wasn't too impressed with the paperwork associated with those services. But your mileage may certainly vary.

[bdp]

After reading books such as "Reclaiming our Health," "Overdosed America," and Fuhrman's books, I see no need for standard health insurance for healthy people. With proper diet you can prevent and reverse most of the diseases that plague and/or kill Americans and avoid any need for long-term medication.

For example, in Sicko there is a guy that had 4+ heart attacks and he and his wife had to move in with their children because of their medical bills. Does he know that he caused his own heart disease with his diet, and that he can reverse it the same way? There is no need for the disease-care system to get involved.

Anyway, my wife and I only get health insurance for the several months before and after childbirth in case there is a big problem (we still have our children at home with a midwife). We have catastrophic insurance and good car insurance coverage for things we can't control.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by Jim

If you never get sick, definitely check out an HSA.

Ours is $1,500, and the price is right...

[pylonian]

I only carry catastrophic coverage and then devote a portion of my budget to visiting Classical Chinese Medicine physicians regularly. I also get a couple of major health screening tests at a local clinic for a very low price "just to be safe." I pay about 50% less, overall, than my close friend who has an opt-in plan through his employer. I'm also about 100% healthier. I haven't been sick in years and I look better now than I did 10 years ago.

I say do it - get out of everything except what will pay for what Western medicine does best - trauma and serious surgery. Use a part of your savings to pay for Chinese medicine or the alternative medicine system of your choice.

[jbischke]

Wanted to bump this to see if anyone had any more suggestions here. What I'm contemplating doing is taking out a policy with a high deductible (say $5,000) and then taking my savings and plugging it into an HSA. Has anyone else done something similar. If so, what's been your take thus far?

Thanks!

[Amadeus]

Seriously, why would people move out of the US? Competition is good and it is good for the healthcare system. The little ranking system that the fat man used in his documentary was "overall health" for the overall population in the country (birth to death). However, the majority of people have excellent health care here in the US.
Personally if the **** hits the fan ever, I would rather live in the US. The US is geographically blessed and has more farmland and empty ackers than any other "developed" nation. We have the same amount of land as China, but China has over 4 times the population as the US.
As far as Univeral Healthcare, I can't see how people on this forum would be for it. We are the ones who carry the weight (tax dollars) of the country and are small business owners. Now if you can't afford the $200 a month to get health insurance, well, what is wrong with you? If you want someone else to pay for your healthcare and don't want to open your own business move to Canada.

[wbuch]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Ours is $1,500, and the price is right...

Dan, are you saying your health insurance doesn't have premiums, i.e. it's deductible-only??

[AddictiveX]

Move to the UK the NHS ....SUCKS

[Ree]

I'd rather be safe than sorry. You never know what's just around the corner. In '01 and '06, two separate members of my immediately family suffered 1) a life threatening disease and 2) a life threatening accident, both of which were thankfully covered by our major medical insurance to the tune of about $100,000 each. Neither of these was caused by an unhealthy lifestyle. It's very easy to look down your nose at the health care system in this country and at people who are ill or injured when you're healthy, but no one is invulnerable to health problems. I was glad that 1) the quality of care both of my family members received was excellent to the point that both made full recoveries and 2) insurance paid for that care. It's up to each individual to evaluate their insurance needs and have an appropriate amount of savings/coverage. I couldn't sleep at night if I didn't.