Children on a raw food diet?

[cheesedip1]

Is it possible to start your kid's diet with only raw food (or as close as possible) from birth and maintain it?

A lot of adults say that young children/toddlers do not like the taste of fruits or vegetables that much. Is that just because of the other "crap" many young ones get fed (addictive sugar etc.), or is it natural to just hate how lettuce tastes?

[Roby]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is it possible to start your kid's diet with only raw food (or as close as possible) from birth and maintain it?

A lot of adults say that young children/toddlers do not like the taste of fruits or vegetables that much. Is that just because of the other "crap" many young ones get fed (addictive sugar etc.), or is it natural to just hate how lettuce tastes?

Instead of raw fruits and vegetables, you can feed your baby with boiled fruits and vegetables. there are some fruits which can be given in raw state like mango, banana, orange and so on.

[GregD]

do you really want to risk the health and long term well being of your kids because of your own beliefs?

If you want to be a raw eater, a christian, a nudist, a painter, whatever then fine - do that, but don't force children into these things, let them grow up and choose themselves instead of being brainwashed from birth.

Yes there are many arguments for raw eaters, but there are also many arguments for non-raw eaters and as far as that debate is alive and as far as science has not 100% proven one way or another then feed the children the way they have been fed for thousands of years so you are sure they will be healthy.

[votoshka]

The best thing you can do for a baby is not feed it processed rubbish, whatever that rubbish may be.

Some foods are best eaten raw, and some are better assimilated if they're cooked (at least, according to what I've read).

Just do some solid research and read from a variety of sources.

It is true that everyone should eat SOME raw food, but whether 100% raw food is best or not is certainly a big debate and something that requires a lot more research than just asking a question in a forum.

[cheesedip1]

Is there anyone out there, who has raised their kids on a raw food diet and it worked?

[kat]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is there anyone out there, who has raised their kids on a raw food diet and it worked?

http://thegardendiet.com/ seems to be down at the second, but a movie they made about themselves is available: Breakthrough, an inspiring raw food documentary. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

On the other hand, Shazzie (a relatively famous raw vegan) argues against raising children as raw vegans: see Shazzie's article on raw vegan children

I've met a guy who says he was raised as a raw omnivore (with meat once a week) until he was 11.

Is it possible to raise kids on an all-raw diet? Sure - people did so all the time before we had cooking. Is it a good idea? Harder question. And it's clear that quite a few people have seriously messed up their kids by trying to raise them as raw vegans and doing a poor job of it.

[Moriarty]

Perhaps some good advice and guidance from a Pediatrician would be the wisest path for childrens dietry needs?

[cheesedip1]

Originally Posted by kat

http://thegardendiet.com/ And it's clear that quite a few people have seriously messed up their kids by trying to raise them as raw vegans and doing a poor job of it.

Yeah, I'm wondering what to eat to get all the essential vitamins and minerals. Although, surprisingly, no one really cares about nutrient intake for regular diets. Also, I think getting enough caloric intake would be important as well.

[featherstory]

Go to Fruit Lovers of The World Unite. and Vegan Raw Food Health and Fitness, 80/10/10 Diet by Dr. Douglas Graham Dr. Doug Graham and wife Roz Graham have a 5 year old, and Anne Osborne has two children one who is now an adult and was raised raw his whole life and still is.

There are quite a few more that I know of who have or are raising their kids raw, but those two are more vocal and actually working in the field of education about doing so. Also check out karen ranzi and karmyn malone.

I know quite a few others who have and are raising their kids raw vegan, but they don't promote it and are private about it. As for me, my oldest started off that way, but when we got around family they pretended to feed our kids as we wished but actually gave her junk behind our backs. My kids love fruit and veggies and definitely will turn down most junk and ask for raw fruit/veg over anything else.

I don't understand what the big deal is... of course its possible to raise your kids raw. It is important to have real, relevant, practical information about how to do it correctly, but food is food... there is no debate about whether it is possible to raise a child vegan, so why is it that there's a debate about whether the vegan food has to be cooked or not? Obviously raw foods are more nutritious than cooked foods and you can just avoid foods that have to be cooked.

The most important thing is to feed a child human milk for an extended period of time... at least 3 years is most optimum.

[kat]

Originally Posted by featherstory

I don't understand what the big deal is... of course its possible to raise your kids raw. It is important to have real, relevant, practical information about how to do it correctly, but food is food... there is no debate about whether it is possible to raise a child vegan, so why is it that there's a debate about whether the vegan food has to be cooked or not? Obviously raw foods are more nutritious than cooked foods and you can just avoid foods that have to be cooked.

It's important not to get it too wrong: BBC News | HEALTH | Baby death parents spared jail

The big deal is that fruitarian children seem to be rather small, in the best case. In the worst case, I hear about various deficiencies and even deaths due to malnutrition.

Shazzie's page goes so far as to say that she's never seen a raw unsupplemented vegan kid past the age where the kid is breastfed (often 3 or 4 years) who's normally sized for their age, and claims tooth decay is common.

Raw fruit isn't very dense food. Whether it's the 30 pounds a day of fruit that the runner in this article ( http://www.thefruitarian.com/wp-cont...et-resized.jpg ) eats, or the 20 pounds of tomatoes that the former raw omnivore I mentioned ate once in a sitting as a kid, it's a rather demanding diet in some ways.

Edit: and this is without going into the problems that sheer quantity can't solve, like the lack of B12 (for raw unsupplemented vegans, not for raw omnivores).

[kat]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Yeah, I'm wondering what to eat to get all the essential vitamins and minerals. Although, surprisingly, no one really cares about nutrient intake for regular diets. Also, I think getting enough caloric intake would be important as well.

Some people care about nutrient intake, some don't, regardless of diet. This is true of both people eating 'regular' diets, and of raw foodists.

Fruitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is a bit pessimistic, though it's accurate about B12.

As for exactly what to eat to get the rest, everyone seems to have a different idea. Eating things like seeds rich in omega3 fatty acids, and a lot of leafy greens in addition to fruit, addresses the above deficiencies, other than B12. It still doesn't include K2, unless one adds raw fermented foods, and is rather low in choline, which seems to matter more for some people than others.

And, as you said, caloric intake is important.

[GregD]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is there anyone out there, who has raised their kids on a raw food diet and it worked?

Please realize that even if all 7 billion people on the planet started feeding their children 100% raw diet then the consequences of this would not be clear for another 50-100 and more years.

Do you really want to make such a bet in the life of your children, grand children and grand grand children to force your belief on them and then later they come out with whatever genetical mutations?

I am not saying they will, I am saying if there is even 1% chance that this could happen I would not take such a chance. And the chance is far more than 1% because there is absolutely no consensus in the scientific community on this subject with fighters on both sides, so the risk factor is HUGE!

Please don't mess up future generations - if the kids want to, when they grow up they can make the choice to become 100% raw, but they need high energy dense foods like meat which is extremely difficult to replace by other means for a super fast growing child.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

Is it possible to start your kid's diet with only raw food (or as close as possible) from birth and maintain it?

Yes, if you want to kill your newborn baby.

In the first place, babies should just be on breastmilk for the first six months of their lives. There's little else they can digest.

Young babies are very vulnerable to bacteria etc that adults or older children can easily deal with. That is why milk bottles have to be scrupulously sterilised before use. Your raw veggies etc have bacteria that will make a young baby very ill, even if adults / older children could easily digest them.

[kat]

Originally Posted by GregD

Please don't mess up future generations - if the kids want to, when they grow up they can make the choice to become 100% raw, but they need high energy dense foods like meat which is extremely difficult to replace by other means for a super fast growing child.

Vegetarian kids tend to grow up perfectly fine, and there are vegetarian communities (vegetarian traditions in India date back thousands of years). Meat isn't necessary.

Cooked vegan is possible. There are plenty of energy dense cooked vegan foods.

Raw vegan kids tend to survive, but be small, as far as I can tell.

[momo3bur]

It's possible, I would think, but you'd be very limited early in age as to what you can actually feed your child.

Breast milk is obviously the best raw food available for your baby, and like ALG said, that's what your child needs until 6 months of age when you start introducing new foods. After that, it should still be the staple of your baby's diet and the foods should be sort of a ... treat. Don't get me wrong, they're very important, but until at least a year old the main part of your baby's diet should be breastmilk.

As far as feeding raw foods, mushed up bananas and a few fruits...maybe avocado?? You'll have to check the danger of allergens with that one, though. I'm not sure about it.

I agree strongly with Moriarty. If you're really considering doing this, you should be advised by a pediatrician first and foremost. There are way too many horror stories that involve babies very malnourished or dying because of trying to maintain rawfood diets.

[cheesedip1]

Originally Posted by GregD

.

Do you really want to make such a bet in the life of your children, grand children and grand grand children to force your belief on them and then later they come out with whatever genetical mutations?

I am not saying they will, I am saying if there is even 1% chance that this could happen I would not take such a chance. And the chance is far more than 1% because there is absolutely no consensus in the scientific community on this subject with fighters on both sides, so the risk factor is HUGE!

Please don't mess up future generations - if the kids want to, when they grow up they can make the choice to become 100% raw, but they need high energy dense foods like meat which is extremely difficult to replace by other means for a super fast growing child.

-So If I believe in a standard american diet, and I force my kiids to eat meat, dairy and whatever, that's somehow NOT forcing my beliefs on them? (assuming I have kids).

-Yes , if people were to feed their kids raw, it would entail risks. It's probably good for people to know what they're doing before they decide to raise their kids' raw.

-How would this mess up future generations? I'd think if someone screwed up their kids' lifestyle, it would just affect their kids.

[cheesedip1]

[QUOTE=kat;1043950]It's important not to get it too wrong: BBC News | HEALTH | Baby death parents spared jail

The big deal is that fruitarian children seem to be rather small, in the best case. In the worst case, I hear about various deficiencies and even deaths due to malnutrition. ]"


Is a fruititarian diet healthy? I thought people needed greens for minerals and some fats?




EDIT: Honestly, if I ever had kids, this is what their diet would probably look like:
-Probably little to no grains
-no dairy
-maybe some meat
-no sugar
-as less processed food as possible
-fruits and vegetables (cooked and raw)

-I think basically the food groups would do fine (no dairy or grain), as long as most of the food is organic and isn't processed as much as possible.

[cheesedip1]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Yes, if you want to kill your newborn baby.

In the first place, babies should just be on breastmilk for the first six months of their lives. There's little else they can digest.

Young babies are very vulnerable to bacteria etc that adults or older children can easily deal with. That is why milk bottles have to be scrupulously sterilised before use. Your raw veggies etc have bacteria that will make a young baby very ill, even if adults / older children could easily digest them.

Who WOULDN'T feed their kids breastmilk early on? Isn't that mostly the only thing they can digest for the first couple months or so?

Breastmilk is very healthy for kids. Yay!

---PS. How long do babies usually stay on breastmilk? (6 months? a year? 2 years?)

[ainsleigh]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

-So If I believe in a standard american diet, and I force my kiids to eat meat, dairy and whatever, that's somehow NOT forcing my beliefs on them? (assuming I have kids).

-Yes , if people were to feed their kids raw, it would entail risks. It's probably good for people to know what they're doing before they decide to raise their kids' raw.

-How would this mess up future generations? I'd think if someone screwed up their kids' lifestyle, it would just affect their kids.

I agree. I think the important thing is the nutrients that your child is receiving and how healthy they will be as a result of the diet.

The standard Western diet is a belief in itself, and one based largely on ignorance to and corporate profit. People enforce this belief on their kids all the time. It has lead to an incredible amount of obesity. I'd certainly feed my kids raw organic vegetables and fruits over McDonalds/processed foods any day that aren't even prepared by me!

Eating raw food isn't controversial. There are dehydrators, food processors, juicers, and blenders which make it all the more digestible for children. I think researching and learning is the most important thing to make sure the nutrients & vitamins are comprehensive enough.

I think that its not natural at all for children to dislike vegetables. I think thats societal conditioning to do with mainstream diet, and advertising. Jamie Oliver talks about this in his TED talk. I've listen some interesting ones below.

Here's some interesting TED talks:

Mark Bittman on what's wrong with what we eat | Video on TED.com

Jamie Oliver's TED Prize wish: Teach every child about food | Video on TED.com

Ann Cooper talks school lunches | Video on TED.com

[Acting Like Godot]

Standard recommendation is six months, as a minimum. That's breastmilk, exclusive of anything else.

Apart from breastmilk, other foods can be gradually introduced around six months, but they should not be raw. On the contrary, they have to be very well-cooked.

A common first food is porridge, very well-cooked. A little later, bits of broccoli, again very well-boiled, and then carrots, very well-cooked and mashed up, and so on.

Nothing raw, please! Babies' digestive systems aren't built that way.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by Moriarty

Perhaps some good advice and guidance from a Pediatrician would be the wisest path for childrens dietry needs?

Ummm probably not. While some paediatricians may have taken a course in nutrition, I'm sure a lot are like most doctors who haven't... I've seen a lot of current dietary advice which really makes me want to scream because it's so darn bad, and yet it's what the so-called professionals are espousing. Most paediatricians would NOT recommend an all raw diet, simply because they haven't done the research on it.

Also remember that raw and raw vegan are NOT the same thing. Plenty of raw foodists consume raw dairy and some consume raw meat too!

I know plenty of children become very sickly and unwell on a raw vegan diet, so it's not something you should do without reading comprehensively on BOTH sides.

[Moriarty]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Ummm probably not. While some paediatricians may have taken a course in nutrition, I'm sure a lot are like most doctors who haven't... I've seen a lot of current dietary advice which really makes me want to scream because it's so darn bad, and yet it's what the so-called professionals are espousing. Most paediatricians would NOT recommend an all raw diet, simply because they haven't done the research on it.

Also remember that raw and raw vegan are NOT the same thing. Plenty of raw foodists consume raw dairy and some consume raw meat too!

I know plenty of children become very sickly and unwell on a raw vegan diet, so it's not something you should do without reading comprehensively on BOTH sides.

Yes, I get your point and some of it I agree with. I imagine it also depends on what part of the world you live in.

I am neither of these groups of vegans and don't believe young children digestive systems are meant to cope with such diets. I also imagine a dietrician or paediatrician would steer you away from such drastic childhood diets and for good reason IMO.

Unfortunately, parenthood doesn't come with a license to practice and we hear some horror stories involving children. In this case though, I'm sure the parents are trying to do the right thing in addressing unwanted additives in foods these days. We are seeing more and more cases of child cancers and taller youths from undesirable additives and toxins.

I think though that parents can strike a happy medium by being aware and able to find a healthy middle ground.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Nothing raw, please! Babies' digestive systems aren't built that way.

Although I agree with your posts in this thread for the most part, you can give babies raw fruits such as avocado and banana (or a mix of the two) when you're introducing fruits, generally well before their first birthday.

I can't think of any other raw fruit or veg that you could safely give to a baby.

Once they get teeth, of course, the possibilities open up with things like melon and mango (both eaten raw).

[GregD]

Originally Posted by kat

Vegetarian kids tend to grow up perfectly fine, and there are vegetarian communities (vegetarian traditions in India date back thousands of years). Meat isn't necessary.

Cooked vegan is possible. There are plenty of energy dense cooked vegan foods.

Raw vegan kids tend to survive, but be small, as far as I can tell.

Yes, if you are from THAT community with THAT genetical information inside your body with THOSE immune systems and with the body created for THAT environment then no problem, but if you take an American or similar baby and try to convert it straight away to THAT kind of life you will destroy the baby.

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

-So If I believe in a standard american diet, and I force my kiids to eat meat, dairy and whatever, that's somehow NOT forcing my beliefs on them? (assuming I have kids).

-Yes , if people were to feed their kids raw, it would entail risks. It's probably good for people to know what they're doing before they decide to raise their kids' raw.

-How would this mess up future generations? I'd think if someone screwed up their kids' lifestyle, it would just affect their kids.

It has nothing to do with American or whatever other country diet. It simply has to do with statistics. We know today that children brought up in whatever culture and being fed exactly like their parents and grand parents that both those children and the children of those children will be fine. Now you want to introduce a change to this sytem, but you do not have any statistics (hundreds of years of data) whatsoever to back up your claim and you propose to use "your children" as experiment dummies.

And how would it mess up future generations? Everything you do has a chain reaction impact for hundreds and thousands of years to come from now. You do not just affect your family. If your family (i hope not) would pass away then there would be no future consequences, but if they survive and multiply into tribes and nations then everything you ate and all your genetical mutations - be those good ones or bad ones - will be passed on to every single one of them.

[firenexx]

Of course it's possible to feed a child a raw diet.

I laugh in derision at all the people saying "No, because you don't want to screw it up!" Do you have any idea how many people screw up the STANDARD AMERICAN DIET and their kids end up getting malnourished, cancer, diabetes, or FAT? I'm pretty sure that it's much easier for a kid to get all the nutrients he needs from a diet that is BY DEFINITION MORE NUTRIENT-DENSE THAN ANY OTHER DIET. Also, is breast milk raw? YES.
The only real issue is amount of food. People tend to underestimate the amount of food that a growing child needs. For this reason, many raw food gurus will tend to recommend feeding children at least some cooked food, in the form of steamed greens and root veggies and other things, just so it's easier for the child to get the food energy that he or she needs to grow. This does not mean that the raw diet is impossible for children, it just means that kids need to eat a lot. I'd rather have a kid eat lots of healthy, nutritious food than chips and ho-hos and dingdongs and chicken sandwiches from MacD's.

We know today that children brought up in whatever culture and being fed exactly like their parents and grand parents that both those children and the children of those children will be fine.

If you call diabetes, morbid obesity, and ADHD fine, then yes, keep feeding them energy drinks and ramen noodles.

I don't understand what the big deal is here. The raw diet isn't anything magical or extraordinary or "experimental." It's FRUIT AND ♥♥♥♥ING VEGETABLES. (Oh and nuts and seeds). (And of course, raw dairy and meat, if you please.)

Sorry about the caps people, but this thread needed some more common sense and less panicky paranoia.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by ainsleigh

I think that its not natural at all for children to dislike vegetables.

I was just reading information on a study recently that indicates that something like 60 percent of children are much more sensitive to bitter flavors than adults, which could explain why so many kids don't like a variety of vegetables.

[ButterflyWoman]

Originally Posted by firenexx

then yes, keep feeding them energy drinks and ramen noodles.

Bit of a slippery slope fallacy there. I mean, there's a far cry between "energy drinks and ramen noodles" and a healthy, balanced diet that includes cooked foods. You're all like, "Raw diet or complete crap!" and there's nothing in between.

Originally Posted by firenexx

Oh and nuts and seeds

You can't introduce nuts and seeds into a child's diet until they're considerably more than babies. Aside from the risk of sensitising allergies, kids are prone to choking, so you'd have to make butter out of anything you gave them.

Originally Posted by firenexx

Sorry about the caps people, but this thread needed some more common sense and less panicky paranoia.

A little less hyperbole could work, too. I'm just saying.

[kat]

Originally Posted by GregD

Yes, if you are from THAT community with THAT genetical information inside your body with THOSE immune systems and with the body created for THAT environment then no problem, but if you take an American or similar baby and try to convert it straight away to THAT kind of life you will destroy the baby.

Ehm - there are a lot of vegetarian families in the USA, who raise their kids as vegetarians with no problems. I know European first/second/third generation vegetarians, who have been vegetarian their whole lives as well.

Babies start off with milk or formula, and then various soft foods get introduced - such as cooked grains or fruit. They all start off vegetarian, since babies can't initially eat solid food, and most are vegetarian for at least a while after solid food is introduced.

[cheesedip1]

Do kids need grain? I think most grain is just white, nutritionless crap. Also, I know it may not always be easy, bit I'd say try to keep sugar (white processed sugar) out of your kid's diet. If your kids get a taste of sugar from pop or junk food or something, they will probably always want it. Sugar is very addictive.

Also, I'd say no coffee or soda. Juice is okay, but many juices have too much sugar added. Want a hint? Make apple juice with a real apple and then try the fake apple juice that stores always sell. There's a big difference.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I was just reading information on a study recently that indicates that something like 60 percent of children are much more sensitive to bitter flavors than adults, which could explain why so many kids don't like a variety of vegetables.

Actually, in general, young children are more sensitive to strong tastes of any kind. That's why for example they don't take very well to spices. And that's why baby food (whatever kind of baby food) is quite bland.