Cooked food gives more energy to the human

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by waterfast

But, she acknowledges that Cooking, DESTROYS MANY NUTRIENTS, not just Taurine.

Sure. Other effects of cooking are that it kills bacteria that might otherwise give you salmonella or some other nasty disease. Certain types of grains are also not digestible by humans, unless cooked to some extent.

However it can be very well possible that cooked meat lacks many enzymes and nutrients present in raw fresh meat.

Could be. Uncooked food could also lack various parasites such as tapeworms and toxoplasma gondii, and bacteria such as pathogenic strains of Escherichia coli, and Campylobacter, and viruses such as noroviruses from shellfish, and harmful protozoa.

Notice that Humans do not eat Raw Meat?

Depends. I love sashimi. That's stuff like raw salmon, tuna, mackerel.

And there's at least one forummer here (Russian Rocket) who regularly eats raw meat (apart from seafood). Ask him.


One orange has 70mg of Natural Vitamin-C COMPLEX
Along with hundreds of other Anti-Oxidants, Flavinoids, Poly-Phenols and Plant Hormones, many of which have yet to be discovered or understood.

when Vitamin C was first isolated and produced in a supplement form, we did not know about bioflavonoids. They were discovered later. It was found that in nature, bioflavonoids always accompany Vitamin C. In fact, the bioflavonoids are essential for better absorption. They increase bioavailability by 30%. This suggests you should take the natural form of vitamin C.

Sure. However, let's say you eat two oranges a day and I take one 500 mg tablet. Even if your bioavailability is superior by 30%, I probably absorb way more Vitamin C.

You see, let's say one orange is 70 mg and you absorb x% of it. You eat two oranges and get 2x% of 70 mg, or around 1.4x mg.

My bioavailability is 30% less. So It's around 0.7x%. My raw amount of vit c is 500mg. My actual absorption is 0.7x times 500 mg. That means 3.5x mg.

So I still absorb 2.5 times more Vitamin C than you.

You have to eat about 5 oranges per day, to match my 500 mg supplement.

Anyway, i have nothing against fresh fruits. I like them actually. There are other reasons to consume them, eg fibre and other good stuff.

[russianrocket]

Yep, raw meat eater here. It's very easy to digest, and never leaves me with a feeling if being stuffed. Far better then cooked, in my opinion. I'm definitely not alone in this either( there is a huge forum dedicated to this), and humans started their meat eating with raw meat (eating carnivores kills) and it's been going on forever. Not just beef, but pork and poultry...but I'm not that brave yet.

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Yep, raw meat eater here. It's very easy to digest, and never leaves me with a feeling if being stuffed. Far better then cooked, in my opinion. I'm definitely not alone in this either( there is a huge forum dedicated to this), and humans started their meat eating with raw meat (eating carnivores kills) and it's been going on forever. Not just beef, but pork and poultry...but I'm not that brave yet.

I agree with you on the historical aspect, but see our omnivorous meat eating only as an emergency survival adaptation mechanism.

What kind of raw meat are you eating?

That doesn't sound healthy in the long run.
I think its one thing to eat a piece of raw meat to save your life, in the middle of nowhere when there is nothing else available, compared to stuffing your face with it while there are fresh fruits and veggies to be had.


There is a high likely hood that you would eventually get a serious bacterial/viral infection and parasites in your body that would potentially overwhelm your system which could cause life-threatening organ damage, to you.

The only way to counter-balance this in a daily preventative way would be to also consume Raw Oranges/Lemons along with veggies like Garlic/Onions.

A good example is a Mexican Fish food, Ceviche, which is only cooked in Lemon Juice. So without the Fruit Juice to protect you aka cook the fish, it would be a lot more dangerous to eat it truly raw.

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure. Other effects of cooking are that it kills bacteria that might otherwise give you salmonella or some other nasty disease. Certain types of grains are also not digestible by humans, unless cooked to some extent.

The reason you have to cook it is because your body is not designed to digest it, bacteria and all...

By cooking it, you are simply avoiding the truth. And prolonging your body's suffering, by forcing it to age more quickly from over-exertion.



[quote]However it can be very well possible that cooked meat lacks many enzymes and nutrients present in raw fresh meat. [quote]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Could be. Uncooked food could also lack various parasites such as tapeworms and toxoplasma gondii, and bacteria such as pathogenic strains of Escherichia coli, and Campylobacter, and viruses such as noroviruses from shellfish, and harmful protozoa.

You wouldn't have to worry about these things if you were only eating the food that actually belongs in your body.

Fruits and Veggies do not provide you with the same degree of exposure to bacteria/viruses and parasites as you are getting from meat.
Fruits and Veggies also simultaneously protect you against them, just in case there are any minimal amounts of anything present.

This is why many different kinds of Fruit and Veggies, Kill Bacteria, Viruses and Parasites as well as Fungus.
This takes the burden off of your body's immune system and allows you to preserve your energy and this keeps you looking younger and lengthens your life span.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Depends. I love sashimi. That's stuff like raw salmon, tuna, mackerel.

I'm sorry, I thought that I was speaking to a Human Being.

You are making me think that you may in fact be some parasite infested wild animal that has learned to how to talk.



[quote]One orange has 70mg of Natural Vitamin-C COMPLEX
Along with hundreds of other Anti-Oxidants, Flavinoids, Poly-Phenols and Plant Hormones, many of which have yet to be discovered or understood.[quote]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Sure. However, let's say you eat two oranges a day and I take one 500 mg tablet. Even if your bioavailability is superior by 30%, I probably absorb way more Vitamin C.

You see, let's say one orange is 70 mg and you absorb x% of it. You eat two oranges and get 2x% of 70 mg, or around 1.4x mg.

My bioavailability is 30% less. So It's around 0.7x%. My raw amount of vit c is 500mg. My actual absorption is 0.7x times 500 mg. That means 3.5x mg.

So I still absorb 2.5 times more Vitamin C than you.

You have to eat about 5 oranges per day, to match my 500 mg supplement.

Before I answer this, lets read the very next thing you said first.

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Anyway, i have nothing against fresh fruits. I like them actually. There are other reasons to consume them, eg fibre and other good stuff.

As you can already see for yourself, there is much more than just Vitamin C in an orange, so by taking a vitamin c supplement, you are losing out the Vitamin-C Complex as well as the other Vitamins, Minerals, Enzymes and Anti-Oxidants that it provides. May I only need to add that these additional Nutrients are numbered in the Thousands and many of which we have not even discovered yet.

How far into a single conversation do you think you can get, if you could only use a single word for everything you needed to say?

Our bodies are more complicated that we realize and our need for Nutrients goes far beyond any single one and the way we got to where we are today is though evolution, but we did not do it on our own.

We evolved together with trees/plants, in a symbiotic relationship. In which we always picked the fruits and veggies that we found to be the most beneficial and healthy for us and guided them towards an evolutionary path that went in the same direction as our own until we arrived to where we are today.

It is ridiculous to think that isolating a single nutrient and taking x1000 times the normal daily requirement of it will compensate for the diversity that has slowly but surely evolved out of Millions of years of careful natural selection through positive reinforcement.

(Please do not compare this to some pharmaceutical industry funded scientific trials that showed positive results for people that took their Isolated Vitamin C supplements. 2 years of research does not match 2 Million Years of Evolution.)

(And please do not say that Man has been around for less than 2 million years, because trees have held our hands far longer than before we were even Mankind.)


Choices:

1) Isolated Vitamin-C (x1 Nutrient) 1000 Times Daily Requirement

2) Vitamins,Minerals,Enzymes&Anti-Oxidants (x1000+ Nutrients) Actual Daily Requirement


Conclusion:

Just eat the Orange.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by waterfast

I'm sorry, I thought that I was speaking to a Human Being.

You are making me think that you may in fact be some parasite infested wild animal that has learned to how to talk.

Oh dear.

I would suggest that you refrain from making such remarks. They can get you banned from these forums rather rapidly.

Not only is it an insult to me personally, it's also a racial attack on the Japanese people, where consumption of raw seafood is, well, a very common thing.




Sashimi sampler plate.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I don't see how that could be possible. Cooking food destroys the vital enzymes used to break it down. When I have a raw green smoothie, it gives me far more energy than a cooked burger or sandwich, although I can't say I experience a lag in energy when I do eat cooked, which is every day at some point. Also, cooking foods, especially overcooking, is known to cause cancer, although to an extent we have adapted to cooked food for the most part. But raw is still way better for you, but far more difficult to master in today's modern world.

I'd say 30-50% raw will give you far more energy than a 100% cooked diet. And 100% raw will give you an astronomical amount more energy if it is done right for your particular body type. I just wouldn't recommend raw factory-farmed meat, unless you like parasites.

And vitamins are poor substitutes for real food.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

And vitamins are poor substitutes for real food.

I'd argue for Vitamin C as a special case.

Has to do with apes. We can't synthesise Vitamin C. That's why gorillas and monkeys etc eat a tremendous amount of fruits. And they are our closest cousins in nature,

We can do the same. You could eat, for example, 5 or 10 oranges per day. On the other hand, you might find that an overkill. It would make you feel like the real ape that you are. So the alternative is to take a 500 mg or 1000 mg supplement.

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Oh dear.

I would suggest that you refrain from making such remarks. They can get you banned from these forums rather rapidly.

Not only is it an insult to me personally, it's also a racial attack on the Japanese people, where consumption of raw seafood is, well, a very common thing.




Sashimi sampler plate.

Well I didn't mean any insult by it, and I almost didn't say it, but I thought it may be useful to you if I was at least honest enough to let you see how I feel about it on an emotional level as well.

With the Japanese people in mind, I will say that I mentioned earlier that I only see meat eating as a survival mechanism. I do believe that since they live on an island, they did not have as much fruit and vegetable diversity as they may have felt comfortable with and were forced to look towards the ocean for a greater part of their diet.

I am however, not sure that is the right outcome for humanity, but it would be possible to evolve in this direction, I'm just not sure how many thousands of years it would take mankind in order to be able to do it safely.

The quality of the environment from which the seafood comes from is also of maximum importance as was said previously by another poster, that you wouldn't want to be eating factory-farmed fish and should prefer wild caught fish who have had a natural diet.

I can only say that the best way to protect yourself is to make sure you also eat fruits and veggies so that you have something help you fend off the bacteria/viruses and parasites, then you may perhaps be able to enjoy the raw seafood without any serious complications.

The Wasabi and Ginger may be a very good example of what is needed here.

I wish you luck on your diet of choice.


P.S. I did eat some raw suishi once and about an hour later after I got home, I had the biggest stomach ache of my life.. Then it all exploded out my rear.

I wasn't sure if it could have been something else, so I tried the raw sushi again..

I went home again, And.. Oh Dear...

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

I'd argue for Vitamin C as a special case.

Has to do with apes. We can't synthesise Vitamin C. That's why gorillas and monkeys etc eat a tremendous amount of fruits. And they are our closest cousins in nature,

We can do the same. You could eat, for example, 5 or 10 oranges per day. On the other hand, you might find that an overkill. It would make you feel like the real ape that you are. So the alternative is to take a 500 mg or 1000 mg supplement.

I wonder if anyone would get a scurvy type of disease if they never ate another raw fish every again.

There is nothing excessive about eating 5 to 10 oranges in a day.
I do it all the time, this is actually my average daily orange intake.

I would see it a lot more strange to stuff x5 to x10 raw fish inside of yourself.
Why not just swallow a daily shark cartilage pill and a spoon full of fish oil and be done with it.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by waterfast

I wonder if anyone would get a scurvy type of disease if they never ate another raw fish every again.

There is nothing excessive about eating 5 to 10 oranges in a day.
I do it all the time, this is actually my average daily orange intake.

I would see it a lot more strange to stuff x5 to x10 raw fish inside of yourself.
Why not just swallow a daily shark cartilage pill and a spoon full of fish oil and be done with it.

Oh, I dunno... Because fish tastes good, and it fills you up?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by waterfast

I agree with you on the historical aspect, but see our omnivorous meat eating only as an emergency survival adaptation mechanism.

What kind of raw meat are you eating?

That doesn't sound healthy in the long run.
I think its one thing to eat a piece of raw meat to save your life, in the middle of nowhere when there is nothing else available, compared to stuffing your face with it while there are fresh fruits and veggies to be had.


There is a high likely hood that you would eventually get a serious bacterial/viral infection and parasites in your body that would potentially overwhelm your system which could cause life-threatening organ damage, to you.

The only way to counter-balance this in a daily preventative way would be to also consume Raw Oranges/Lemons along with veggies like Garlic/Onions.

A good example is a Mexican Fish food, Ceviche, which is only cooked in Lemon Juice. So without the Fruit Juice to protect you aka cook the fish, it would be a lot more dangerous to eat it truly raw.

You can see it as what ever you want, but that's all it is. What you perceive it to be.

I eat a huge raw chunk of beef steak. I usually try to get pasture raised, but can't always. Sometimes, it can be sitting around long enough in my fridge to where the red has gone away and it's changing colors. But considering I know people who eat their meat spoiled, I'd say I'm pretty good about it.

I've been doing it for years. I have not once gotten any kind of illness from it. Not even an upset tummy.

I've also been "eating" raw eggs since I was 6.

I have not gotten a cold in 4 years, and have never gotten the flu. I don't really wash my fruit before eating it. I don't watch what germs I come in contact with. I wash my hands only to get rid of dirt and grease, but not germs, and I do not use any kind of anti bacterial. I don't take any vitamins and any other medicine with the exception of some advil every now and then.

I also eat plenty of fresh fruits and veggies. And I do like oranges too.

The only times I hear of people getting some type of food borne illness, is from veggies.

If you actually want to spend some time to learn something, about a lifestyle that is counter to yours, then here you go.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach

I put you to a section of the forum that's more towards the extreme spectrum, of eating like a carnivore.

I'd recommend looking at other sections too.
Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum - Index

One thing you'll notice, is the surprising lack of sick people. And, people who are actually VERY healthy.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by waterfast

I would see it a lot more strange to stuff x5 to x10 raw fish inside of yourself.

But according to you, cooking destroys nutrients and you cited studies on the terrible effects of giving cooked food to cats. Remember?

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

But according to you, cooking destroys nutrients and you cited studies on the terrible effects of giving cooked food to cats. Remember?

Yes I have, If you look at the advice I've been giving people who ask about how they can feel better, I have been consistently telling them that they should
eat:

RAW FRUITS and VEGGIES.

And avoid, Dairy, Eggs and Meat. (This includes both Cooked and Raw.)



Please remember that the equivalent of Raw Meat to a Cat, is Raw Fruit to a Human.

Such as by your example, in that we agree that Taurine is essential for Cats
and Vitamin C is essential for Humans.
It is also a well known fact within the Vegetarian Community, that Humans can get
all the essential Amino Acids that they require, through combinations of Fruits and Veggies.

Rice and Red Beans
Corn and Peas
etc...

[kat]

Originally Posted by waterfast

I agree with you on the historical aspect, but see our omnivorous meat eating only as an emergency survival adaptation mechanism.

It must be a rather long-standing emergency, given that most primates eat small amounts of meat and insects intentionally: see Ape Diets--Myths, Realities, and Rationalizations

Originally Posted by waterfast

What kind of raw meat are you eating?

That doesn't sound healthy in the long run.
I think its one thing to eat a piece of raw meat to save your life, in the middle of nowhere when there is nothing else available, compared to stuffing your face with it while there are fresh fruits and veggies to be had.

There is a high likely hood that you would eventually get a serious bacterial/viral infection and parasites in your body that would potentially overwhelm your system which could cause life-threatening organ damage, to you.

The only way to counter-balance this in a daily preventative way would be to also consume Raw Oranges/Lemons along with veggies like Garlic/Onions.

A good example is a Mexican Fish food, Ceviche, which is only cooked in Lemon Juice. So without the Fruit Juice to protect you aka cook the fish, it would be a lot more dangerous to eat it truly raw.

While you wrote the above to Russianrocket, I'm a bit puzzled as to why you think the above is good advice. There are a number of cultures which eat large amounts of raw fish. Most of them do not combine it with lemon or any kind of fruit.

The Inuit and the Massai aren't known for dying of massive parasite overload or infections, despite traditionally having diets high in raw fish/meat, and absolutely no lemons.

Originally Posted by waterfast

Fruits and Veggies do not provide you with the same degree of exposure to bacteria/viruses and parasites as you are getting from meat.
Fruits and Veggies also simultaneously protect you against them, just in case there are any minimal amounts of anything present.

This is why many different kinds of Fruit and Veggies, Kill Bacteria, Viruses and Parasites as well as Fungus.
This takes the burden off of your body's immune system and allows you to preserve your energy and this keeps you looking younger and lengthens your life span.

I've seen plenty of rotting fruit and vegetables over the years. And this List of mango diseases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is full of parasites and bacteria...

Originally Posted by waterfast

I wonder if anyone would get a scurvy type of disease if they never ate another raw fish every again.

Plenty of people have died from scurvy; sailors a few centuries ago dropped like flies from it. On the other hand, the traditional Inuit diet sufficed to prevent scurvy: they ate raw caribou liver, seal brain, raw whale skin and raw kelp for their vitamin C.

Originally Posted by waterfast

Yes I have, If you look at the advice I've been giving people who ask about how they can feel better, I have been consistently telling them that they should
eat:

RAW FRUITS and VEGGIES.

And avoid, Dairy, Eggs and Meat. (This includes both Cooked and Raw.)



Please remember that the equivalent of Raw Meat to a Cat, is Raw Fruit to a Human.

Such as by your example, in that we agree that Taurine is essential for Cats
and Vitamin C is essential for Humans.
It is also a well known fact within the Vegetarian Community, that Humans can get
all the essential Amino Acids that they require, through combinations of Fruits and Veggies.

Rice and Red Beans
Corn and Peas
etc...

I'd rather not eat any raw rice, much less raw kidney beans - raw kidney beans are way too toxic.

Cats live off raw meat. But the analogy does not hold - humans have never been fruitarians: Further Evidence Against Claims of Fruitarian Evolution

Vegetarian diets are perfectly sufficient, and some people thrive as raw vegans. But incorrect information is less than convincing, no matter how much I want to agree with the conclusions.

[kat]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

The only times I hear of people getting some type of food borne illness, is from veggies.

Look harder.

Concerns, Questions Mount in Fatal Food Poisoning in Raw Beef Case in Japan - Japan Real Time - WSJ

Food Poisoning: Beef | eHow.com

Both veggies and meat are quite common sources of food poisoning.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Oh, I dunno... Because fish tastes good, and it fills you up?

(On why anyone would eat fish).

Matter of taste - I stopped eating fish well before I went vegetarian, because I don't like it. And I went vegetarian at 13 (and gradually leaned towards it from the age of 10).

Originally Posted by russianrocket

If you actually want to spend some time to learn something, about a lifestyle that is counter to yours, then here you go.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach

I put you to a section of the forum that's more towards the extreme spectrum, of eating like a carnivore.

I'd recommend looking at other sections too.
Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum - Index

One thing you'll notice, is the surprising lack of sick people. And, people who are actually VERY healthy.

Thanks for the links. It was a good read in small doses, but in the end, I found it tiresomely like vegan forums: it's full of people who say they're healthy and/or that the diet was a huge improvement for them, the occasional interesting idea, and too much silly bashing of people who don't share their dietary habits.

I'm glad you provide some balance on this forum: while your sources don't tend to be massively more accurate than other people's, they do clearly falsify some of the sillier dietary ideas that float around too often in these parts. (They say nothing useful about raw veganism, usually - but they do clearly demonstrate that a lot of the ideas that people bat around about diets they dislike which include meat, and even raw meat, are unfounded).

The pictures still make me wince, though.

[jn15]

Originally Posted by kat

Cats live off raw meat. But the analogy does not hold - humans have never been fruitarians: Further Evidence Against Claims of Fruitarian Evolution

Vegetarian diets are perfectly sufficient, and some people thrive as raw vegans. But incorrect information is less than convincing, no matter how much I want to agree with the conclusions.

There is little evidence for the frutarian diet if you believe in evolution. But as a Christian, I believe that God created the world. If you look at Adam and Eve's diet in the Garden of Eden, it was largely based on fruits (Genesis 1:29). That's where I base my raw diet from.

I find that when a raw diet with mostly fruits, I feel much more energetic and the energy is long lasting. On the other hand, when I eat more cooked food--even all natural food--I have significantly less energy.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by jn15

There is little evidence for the frutarian diet if you believe in evolution. But as a Christian, I believe that God created the world. If you look at Adam and Eve's diet in the Garden of Eden, it was largely based on fruits (Genesis 1:29). That's where I base my raw diet from.

I find that when a raw diet with mostly fruits, I feel much more energetic and the energy is long lasting. On the other hand, when I eat more cooked food--even all natural food--I have significantly less energy.

Yes, Adam and Eve's diet was largely based on fruit. It was also based on no disease or germs or infection. Living for hundreds of years, and being able to have a ton of children, without any possibility of inbreeding. I'd say that based your diet on them, isn't exactly very accurate.

Not to mention, how the end of Eden happened.... which as we all know, was because of eating fruit.

But, if you are going to base your diet on the bible. You are going completely against it. Especially if you want to quote genesis.

Genesis 9:3

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

Or this one, which essentially is god calling you weak.

Romans 14:1-23

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..

And here, we have you going against gods words again, by rejecting what he has given you.

1 Timothy 4:4-5

For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

1 Corinthians 10:25
Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

Exodus 12:8

They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it.

I think god made his opinion of meat, quite clear. Even Christ ate animals.

[jn15]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Yes, Adam and Eve's diet was largely based on fruit. It was also based on no disease or germs or infection. Living for hundreds of years, and being able to have a ton of children, without any possibility of inbreeding. I'd say that based your diet on them, isn't exactly very accurate.

Not to mention, how the end of Eden happened.... which as we all know, was because of eating fruit.

But, if you are going to base your diet on the bible. You are going completely against it. Especially if you want to quote genesis.

Sure, the conditions were different. But I don't see how that invalidates the diet itself. While I'm not going to live for 100s of years eating this way, the fact that this was the original diet given in a sinless, perfect world shows me that it is God's ideal.

Eden ended because of eating fruit from one tree that they weren't supposed to. Does that mean that eating fruit in general is bad?

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And here, we have you going against gods words again, by rejecting what he has given you.

Genesis 9:3

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

How is He rejecting what He's given us? He's simply adding to the plant based diet He had laid out before by allowing us to eat meat, due to the shortage of plants immediately after the flood. He didn't say we can't eat fruit anymore.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Or this one, which essentially is god calling you weak.

Quote:
Romans 14:1-23

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..

This is out of context. If you look at the surrounding passages, Paul is talking to Jews who are disputing on what foods are lawful to eat and what aren't. It has nothing to do with health reasons.

When he says "he who is weak eats only vegetables", he means he who is weak of conscience and is worried that eating meat is violating his Jewish faith. If you read the next 2 verses, Paul commands them not to judge each other based on what they eat.

Later, he reiterates this point by telling Jews that disagreed over the sabbath not to judge each other based on their conflicting beliefs. So Paul is not discussing health at all.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I think god made his opinion of meat, quite clear. Even Christ ate animals.

Yes, God has made it clear that eating meat is acceptable. I'm not saying otherwise. Most new testament believers probably did eat it.

However, I believe that His ideal was a fruit based diet, like Adam and Eve ate before the fall. While we are now permitted to eat meat if we want, we are not commanded to.

You can get virtually all the vitamins and minerals you need from fruits and vegetables without eating meat. That's why civilizations that eat a largely plant based diet tend to live a long time.

On the other hand, you cannot live for long off meat alone. Civilizations that do tend to live much shorter lives.

I find in my own experience that I have far more energy when I eat mostly fruits. Based on my experience and the evidence of others, I believe that this is God's ideal diet.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by jn15

If you look at Adam and Eve's diet in the Garden of Eden, it was largely based on fruits (Genesis 1:29). That's where I base my raw diet from.

Oh.

You choose to follow Adam and Eve, rather than Jesus. How interesting.

I think that lamb was a favourite sort of meat in Biblical times. Fish too. Fishermen and shepherds abound in the Bible.

Actually, vineyards too.

Come to think of it, milk and honey were other favourites. Bread gets its fair share of honorable mention.

[jn15]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Oh.

You choose to follow Adam and Eve, rather than Jesus. How interesting.

See above post.

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by kat

It must be a rather long-standing emergency, given that most primates eat small amounts of meat and insects intentionally: see [url=http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-toc2.shtml]Ape Diets--Myths, Realities, and Rationalizations[/url

Kat, you said:
"Eat SMALL AMOUNTS of meat and insects..."

That goes hand in hand with eating in emergent situations.

Originally Posted by kat

While you wrote the above to Russianrocket, I'm a bit puzzled as to why you think the above is good advice. There are a number of cultures which eat large amounts of raw fish. Most of them do not combine it with lemon or any kind of fruit.

The Inuit and the Massai aren't known for dying of massive parasite overload or infections, despite traditionally having diets high in raw fish/meat, and absolutely no lemons.

As you can see, you are talking about societies of people that are living in extreme environments, where eating meat is an Emergency Measure. That they are living in these conditions for their entire lives does not mean that it is not an emergency to them. Their dietary options are severely limited and they have very little choice, but to eat raw meat in order to survive.

Originally Posted by kat

I've seen plenty of rotting fruit and vegetables over the years. And this List of mango diseases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is full of parasites and bacteria...

You are much more likely to die of food poisoning from eating Rotten Meat, than Rotten Fruit.

Meat also spoils more quickly than Fruits and Vegetables.
My Mother used to make chicken soup, while I would make raw vegetable soup at home and even though her soup was cooked, which killed all the bacteria and mine was raw... Hers still spoiled within a day of being left out, while mine could remain unrefrigerated for more than 2 days and still taste good and be healthy.

Also, fruit and vegetables will kill the bacteria, viruses, parasites and fungus.
Some more than others, which is why when I make raw soup, I include onions and garlic and a little bit of lemon juice in it, which protects it longer... and much, much longer, than cooked chicken soup.

WHEN LEFT OUT:
RAW Milk will turn into butter milk.
But Pasteurized milk will PUTREFY.

Originally Posted by kat

Plenty of people have died from scurvy; sailors a few centuries ago dropped like flies from it. On the other hand, the traditional Inuit diet sufficed to prevent scurvy: they ate raw caribou liver, seal brain, raw whale skin and raw kelp for their vitamin C.

Oh, I'm sure it wouldn't take an absolute emergency to convince me to eat, Seal BRAIN. Caribou LIVER, and Whale SKIN.. Mmm KELP, just what I always wanted.

Originally Posted by kat

I'd rather not eat any raw rice, much less raw kidney beans - raw kidney beans are way too toxic.

I prefer to eat:
Apples and Almonds
Oranges and Cashews
Mangoes and Pecans
Pomegranates and Walnuts
Bananas and Young Coconut

Ya understand..?

Originally Posted by kat

Cats live off raw meat. But the analogy does not hold - humans have never been fruitarians: Further Evidence Against Claims of Fruitarian Evolution

Humans did in fact evolve primarily as Fruitarians.

Our digestive tract is the same as that of a Fruitarian.
We do not have four stomachs like Cows, that can eat Grass.
And we do not have short tracts like Cats, that can eat Meat and expel it before it PUTREFIES.

Originally Posted by kat

Vegetarian diets are perfectly sufficient, and some people thrive as raw vegans. But incorrect information is less than convincing, no matter how much I want to agree with the conclusions.

You said, "some people THRIVE AS RAW VEGANS."

Don't sell yourself short and make excuses for Meat Eating when you know in your heart that eating Fruits and Vegetables is what was responsible for our Evolution into the Smartest Animal on Earth.
Humanity's 5000 Years of Alzheimer's is no excuse to forget who we really are.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by waterfast

Don't sell yourself short and make excuses for Meat Eating when you know in your heart that eating Fruits and Vegetables is what was responsible for our Evolution into the Smartest Animal on Earth.

"Hmmm. Didn't work for me."


"Neither us. We're pretty dumb, I assure you."


"I'm smart enough. Still gonna stick to sashimi."


"I eat slop but I'm still one of the smartest animals on the planet."

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

if you are going to base your diet on the bible. You are going completely against it. Especially if you want to quote genesis.

Genesis 9:3

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

You are quoting, Genesis 9 ?!?

How about...

Genesis 1:29 (The BEGINNING OF THE WORLD)

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food.

Yep, 100% FRUITS AND VEGETABLES.


Now, Back to your Genesis 9... (After the WORLD WAS DESTROYED)

This was after the flood. Just think about how bad humanity had become before this, that God had to completely destroy the earth and leave only 1 Righteous Family alive to restablish it.

Also, as was stated by JN15, the plants had also been wiped and had to be reestablished from seed as well.

Then, and only then did God compromise enough to include eating meat in what their original 100% plant based diet was.

SOUNDS, LIKE AN EMERGENCY TO ME...

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Or this one, which essentially is god calling you weak.

Romans 14:1-23

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..

Ok, it says "WELCOME, he who is WEAK IN FAITH."

So, who is really weak then?
First it makes it seem like the Meat eater thinks the Veggie eater is weak.

But, in the last sentence, it makes it clear that to God, the one who Eats (Meat), is the one who is in need of being WELCOMED...

"Let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him."


Therefore, eating like God 1st commands in Genesis 1:29 IS AN ACT OF FAITH.

But, eating like God compromises, in Genesis 9:3 IS AN ACT OF DESTRUCTION, that God Forgives.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I think god made his opinion of meat, quite clear. Even Christ ate animals.

You mention GOD and JESUS.

GOD:
His opinion? His 1st Dietary Command in Genesis 1, was to eat 100% Fruits and Vegetables.

When God, added Meat in Genesis 9, do you think it was with his own Heart he was compromising or with Mans? Did Mankind just have their world destroyed because they LISTENED TO GOD, or wasn't it actually because they could not KEEP HIS COMMAND?

JESUS:
Jesus Punishes the Swine with Demons (Mark 5:10-20)

When Jesus had come out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, who had his dwelling in the tombs.

Always, night and day, in the tombs and in the mountains,
he was crying out, and cutting himself with stones.

And Jesus asked him, saying, "What is thy name?" And he said, "Legion": because many devils were entered into him.

Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand) and were choked in the sea.


My Thoughts: (There is a lot of SYMBOLISM HERE.)

The man was living in the Tombs... (This is such as living close to death, or in SICKNESS)

Jesus calls the Demons, UNCLEAN SPIRITS (BACTERIA, VIRUSES, PARASITES)
Jesus asks their Name, they are LEGION for they are many (BACTERIA, VIRUSES, PARASITES)

EXAMPLE: GARLIC, Keeps DEMONS, VAMPIRES and WEREWOLVES Away.
TODAY, we know that GARLIC actually keeps away, BACTERIA, VIRUSES, PARASITES.

It is very likely that the man living in the Tombs, had become MAD, from eating unclean Meat from the swine heard and the way Jesus cured him, was by identifying, not only the problem, but where it came from, and sending it back from whence it came. And now it is the Swine that go MAD and drown themselves.

If you want to look at it literally.
Jesus, realized that the Man was sick from eating Parasite infested Swine Meat.
Jesus, cures the Man with Garlic.
Jesus, has them run the Swine into the sea so that noone else will become sick.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And here, we have you going against gods words again, by rejecting what he has given you.

1 Timothy 4:4-5

For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

The entire world had been given to man, and God only asked us to live with love in our hearts and follow a few simple commandments.

Eat 100% Fruits and Vegetables.

Who rejected this? Who was supposedly responsible for the entire destruction of the earth? Mankind. To go back to what God 1st said, is to move forward into a Brighter Future.

Exodus 12:8

They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it.

Exodus 12:12
For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

Yes, lets compromise with Gods 1st Dietary Command, in Genesis 1:29

Do you not see WHAT THE COST OF EATING MEAT IS?

HAVE YOU NO FEAR OF GOD?

.... On .... This very night...
.... GOD ... KILLED EVERY FIRST BORN MAN AND BEAST IN EGYPT ...

GOD DAMNED IT.



Last, but not least...

Consider the Story of Daniel, a servant of God, WHO STOOD UP TO A KING,
for none other than GENESIS 1:29.


Daniel Diet Challenge

But Daniel made up his mind that he would not defile himself with the king's choice food (meat) or with the wine which he drank; so he sought permission from the commander of the officials that he might not defile himself.

Now God granted Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the commander of the officials, and the commander of the officials said to Daniel, "I am afraid of my lord the king, who has appointed your food and your drink; for why should he see your faces looking more haggard than the youths who are your own age? Then you would make me forfeit my head to the king."

But Daniel said to the overseer whom the commander of the officials had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, "Please test your servants for ten days, and let us be given some vegetables to eat and water to drink. (emphasis provided)

"Then let our appearance be observed in your presence and the appearance of the youths who are eating the king's choice food; and deal with your servants according to what you see."

So he listened to them in this matter and tested them for ten days. Daniel 1:8-14


These verses indicate the simple diet chosen by Daniel was vegetables and water.

The Daniel Diet was not a different diet than the Bible diet passed from generation to generation since Adam.

Daniel simply requested the diet he knew to be right. However, during this 10-day test and subsequent training,
Daniel and his three friends restricted themselves to the the first two classes of our four Bible food groups.

FOUR BIBLE FOOD GROUPS
1) Trees (whose edible yield is bearing seed or is seeds)
2) Plants (whose edible yield is bearing seed or is seeds)
3) Field Plants (herbs, roots, leafy vegetables)
4) Clean Meat

For review, here is the verse from Genesis which Daniel relied upon when choosing his food:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food. Genesis 1:29

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

JESUS: "What is your name?"

"LEGION, for we are many. I am full of Bacteria, Virus and Parasites." EAT ME!!! AHHHH!!!!

And may all your First Born be Destroyed AHAHAHAH!!!!

[russianrocket]

is it just me, or are his posts starting to look very familiar?

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

is it just me, or are his posts starting to look very familiar?

Who are you talking about?

Have you got nothing left to say, that you have resorted to calling upon figments of your imagination?

Its called the Word of God and he is everywhere you look for him.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by waterfast

Kat, you said:
"Eat SMALL AMOUNTS of meat and insects..."

That goes hand in hand with eating in emergent situations.




As you can see, you are talking about societies of people that are living in extreme environments, where eating meat is an Emergency Measure. That they are living in these conditions for their entire lives does not mean that it is not an emergency to them. Their dietary options are severely limited and they have very little choice, but to eat raw meat in order to survive.





You are much more likely to die of food poisoning from eating Rotten Meat, than Rotten Fruit.

Meat also spoils more quickly than Fruits and Vegetables.
My Mother used to make chicken soup, while I would make raw vegetable soup at home and even though her soup was cooked, which killed all the bacteria and mine was raw... Hers still spoiled within a day of being left out, while mine could remain unrefrigerated for more than 2 days and still taste good and be healthy.

Also, fruit and vegetables will kill the bacteria, viruses, parasites and fungus.
Some more than others, which is why when I make raw soup, I include onions and garlic and a little bit of lemon juice in it, which protects it longer... and much, much longer, than cooked chicken soup.

WHEN LEFT OUT:
RAW Milk will turn into butter milk.
But Pasteurized milk will PUTREFY.





Oh, I'm sure it wouldn't take an absolute emergency to convince me to eat, Seal BRAIN. Caribou LIVER, and Whale SKIN.. Mmm KELP, just what I always wanted.




I prefer to eat:
Apples and Almonds
Oranges and Cashews
Mangoes and Pecans
Pomegranates and Walnuts
Bananas and Young Coconut

Ya understand..?




Humans did in fact evolve primarily as Fruitarians.

Our digestive tract is the same as that of a Fruitarian.
We do not have four stomachs like Cows, that can eat Grass.
And we do not have short tracts like Cats, that can eat Meat and expel it before it PUTREFIES.




You said, "some people THRIVE AS RAW VEGANS."

Don't sell yourself short and make excuses for Meat Eating when you know in your heart that eating Fruits and Vegetables is what was responsible for our Evolution into the Smartest Animal on Earth.
Humanity's 5000 Years of Alzheimer's is no excuse to forget who we really are.

What a bunch of hooie. Meat does not putrefy in our stomachs. Our digests tracks are not like fruigivores. Show us that. Our digestive tracks are not like any plant eater either. They are prefectly suited for both.

The dumbest animals on the planet, are the ones that eat nothing but plants. They are usually the prey of every single other animal too. I'll go with the meat eating camp any day. It took more intelligence and creativity to be able to eat, hunt, clean, and raise meat, then it did to pick fruit off a tree.

[waterfast]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

What a bunch of hooie. Meat does not putrefy in our stomachs. Our digests tracks are not like fruigivores. Show us that. Our digestive tracks are not like any plant eater either. They are prefectly suited for both.

The dumbest animals on the planet, are the ones that eat nothing but plants. They are usually the prey of every single other animal too. I'll go with the meat eating camp any day. It took more intelligence and creativity to be able to eat, hunt, clean, and raise meat, then it did to pick fruit off a tree.

The most long lived animals on the planet are the ones that eat nothing, but plants.

Herbivore Life Spans:
Turtle 100 years.
Parrot 100 years.
Elephant 80 years.

Carnivore Life Spans:
Cat 20 Years
Dog 20 Years
RussianRocket ?? Years (Sorry to only put 2 question marks on ya.)

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by waterfast

The most long lived animals on the planet are the ones that eat nothing, but plants.

Herbivore Life Spans:
Turtle 100 years.
Parrot 100 years.
Elephant 80 years.

Carnivore Life Spans:
Cat 20 Years
Dog 20 Years
RussianRocket ?? Years (Sorry to only put 2 question marks on ya.)

Yeah, and that's why it's so great, that humans aren't carnivores.

But while on that subject.

Parrots are omnivores, some of which get a very large part of their diets from meat.

Turtles also eat other animals.

There is sooo much more to it, then what you have posted. There are short lived herbivores and long lived carnivores.

You also didn't show us anything about our digestive tracts compared to other animals. Aside from saying we aren't cows or cats, which I 100% agree with.

[Roby]

Originally Posted by Artelus

Why cooking counts | Harvard Gazette

According to this article, the human body gains more energy from cooked food than it does from raw food.

Yes, it is ture, as cooking is a process which helps to increase the nutrienst levels of the raw food by adding new or supportive ingredients and by removing all toxic elements from the food.