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| | #1 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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What's the best martial arts or resource for learning h2h attack without the need for much strength. I want physical power without the need of physical strength. Not looking for a sport or a fight, just techniques to incapacitate fast with my body. I'd prefer the following in order of emphasis, all without weapons: 1. Non-damaging incapacitating. I'm thinking pressure points, vulnerable spots, holds, Judo flips? Something that gives them pain or powerlessness without hurting them seriously or needing brute force. 2. Damaging incapacitating. This is how most people fight, but what I want is a more strategic method than just hitting someone hard since I don't have any strength. Like even a weak strike to the throat, groin or eyes would do far more than a strong hit to the torso. 3. Lethal maneuvers. Worst case scenario insurance. If the other methods are actually effective at incapacitating, then this becomes almost entirely unnecessary. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011
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I would say Internal Kung-Fu would fit that list perfectly. First let me make it clear that, although I am no Kung-Fu practitioner (yet), I do know from my research that internal teachers who teach it the RIGHT way, are much harder to find than teachers who teach other martial arts such as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kickboxing the "right" way. Now, a brief explanation. Most people define the different styles of "external" and "internal" MANY different ways. Some people think that "external" means purely swinging hands and fighting, and "internal" means the "philosophical" Kung Fu styles. This is not so. If I remember right, External styles have more to do with making use of muscles, and strengthened bones from practicing on things such as the stick dummy that many people use for the Wing Chun (the style used in the movie Ip Man.. by Ip Man), and Internal styles are more focused on using the OTHER persons energy, staying calm, and not relying on physical strength. The 4 Internal Styles are : Tai Chi Ba'Gua Xing Yi/Hsing I Liu He Ba Fa I recommend doing some research to make sure you get a GOOD teacher, because if you get a bad one, he can teach you the wrong way, which is not good. In fact, if you get taught the wrong way initially, and later down the line find a GOOD teacher, it will be harder to learn because you'll have to unlearn all the incorrect things you were taught. Try and find the "Grand Master" of those styles, and see if any live in your area. I know the Grand Master of Liu He Ba Fa doesn't live too far from me in the Chicago land area, but unfortunately, hes 100$/hr to learn from now :/ If you can't find a Grand Master (there's only 1 for each style, so you'd have to live in one of those 4 cities), try and then find a teacher that studied DIRECTLY under one of the Grand Masters for a long period of time. I hope that helps. I'm a bit tired so I ranted a little bit. Also, no offense to anyone taking up another martial art from my comment in the first paragraph. I'm not saying your martial art isn't good, I'm simply saying that real Kung Fu is progressively becoming a dying art, and there's much less legit teachers around than there is in the popular/thriving martial arts of todays world. |
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| | #3 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Jul 2010
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To answer your question, if you're actually looking to rely on your skills in sticky situations, then you're asking the wrong question, in the wrong forum. The right question is not which style, but which instructor. And you're only going to find good recommendations in a martial arts specific forum. I recommend the guys at: Bullshido.net: Martial Arts UFC News MMA Videos and Forum That said, be prepared for answers which will take you far outside of your local area, and perhaps far outside the budget you were planning. Good guys don't travel, and they aren't cheap. That said, personal security starts in your head and not in your body. You can avoid the vast majority of bad situations simply by recognizing and avoiding situations where your safety is put at risk. An excellent resource here is: No Nonsense Self Defense - Reliable information for dangerous situations Last edited by VinceG; 11-04-2011 at 06:11 AM. | |
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| | #4 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hi again Vince, been a while. Thanks for your advice guys. Hmm ok. I wasn't even sure I wanted to train to begin with, let alone with some super guru. I'm only looking for a Plan B in a very unlikely scenario. I'm not willing to invest much, even time. I was thinking I could pick up a few good techniques without needing a personal coach and training. Maybe I'm unrealistic. My current strategy of being very passive, then rabidly stabbing them to death with my pen might have to stay with me a little while longer. |
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| | #5 (permalink) | ||
| Family Member Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,703
| It has been! Looking forward to hearing tales of your exploits. Quote:
The other reality is that when it comes to physical defense, physical strength is so effective that it takes a great deal of technique to compensate for it. We're talking many years of training. Quote:
But seriously, check out No Nonsense Self Defense. It's fantastic. Last edited by VinceG; 11-04-2011 at 07:10 AM. | ||
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| | #7 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Barleylands, United Kingdom
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In case you need results fast and you're interested purely in self-defense side of martial arts, I'd suggest to take up self-defense classes as opposed to martial arts. The moves they teach in self-defense classes usually don't require much physical strength and they also introduce you to main combat situations that may arise in real life. You should be able to get at least few good moves there. I suggest you not to have illusions that you'll become a master fast, though. It's one thing to learn moves, it's another thing to turn them into reflexes and actually using them when assaulted in the street is a whole different story. It's one thing to know how to take someone's eyes out or break someone's throat, it's another thing to actually do that when you have to defend yourself. Combat is 90% psychology and 10% physical skills, although many people seem to think that the proportion is opposite. I'm not saying that to discourage you, I'm saying that so you wouldn't get disappointed with the speed of your progress. Progress in self-defense classes is generally faster than in martial arts classes (I'm talking purely about physical self-defense skills, forget health, psychology and philosophy), yet it's still too slow for most people, because they have this idea that taking three classes a week will magically turn them into masters (hello, reality check?) I think that martial arts is a better way to go in the long term, though. The progress in terms of practical self-defense is usually slower there but it's the path that leads to mastery, not only in dojo, but in life as well. An important thing to know when it comes to martial arts is that almost nothing depends on style (asides from obvious differences in styles, let's say karate, aikido and kung-fu are very different and they appeal to different people): everything depends on a teacher. |
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| | #8 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Barleylands, United Kingdom
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I'm not carrying pens anymore, though: carrying keys in your fist is the trend for the last few years. Easy to hide, yet would make a very unpleasant surprise to someone not expecting much resistance, which is the case with most morons who assault women. Last edited by Agota; 11-04-2011 at 07:53 AM. | |
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| | #9 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 155
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Well if you're not willing to dedicate a decent portion of your time to it, I'd instead recommend getting a legal-sized knife, pepper spray, or a taser. These don't require much practiced skill to use (although in a case such as knife fighting, it can definitely help). In a worse case scenario, you could just swing around your knife (you must have confidence with it though), spray your pepper spray at their face, or tase them from a distance/up close. If you're going to be carrying one of those though, you must have absolute confidence with it in your hands, and you CAN'T be afraid to use it.. Because if you pull it out, and are scared to use it - it can be used against you, which can turn out far worse than if you never had it. Hope that helps |
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| | #10 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: May 2007
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| | #11 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Nationality: British Soul: Otherworldly Current Location: Barcelona, Spain
Posts: 5,960
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The philosophy of Aikido very much appeals to me. It's about nonviolent self defense; incapacitating your opponent without harming them. I hear that Jiu Jitsu is good for physically weaker people, it's about leveraging the opponent's strength. I think Aikido has some of that too though I'm not sure. |
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| | #12 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 279
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Bit of an unsettling set of posts there man... um why do you want to get violent? Your tone in the first sounded like you're the aggressor. I agree with VinceG, read No-nonsense Self Defense - first thing Marc MacYoung covers is violence is about wanting something. So if you want to get violent or someone is getting violent with you, there is a desire for something there. So if you have a problem with someone, figure out why and if you can't avoid them leave the situation, be it house, job or otherwise. Even winning a fight won't end the problem, payback happens. The physical and legal ramifications in any country aren't great. I'm sure you're joking about knifing someone... but yeah, don't! As for styles... with no input of time or effort you'll get nowhere. There is no golden bullet other than uh.. bullets. Guys who fight well have fought a lot, be they martial artists, boxers, street fighters, whatever. Techniques will only work well when practiced, understood and embodied. I practice Taijiquan and as superfoodist said it is one of a set of dying arts. It develops receiving another persons force while simultaneously breaking their structure, being relaxed and supple is the key. Being hard, yet soft - hard through posture, soft through relaxed motion . It takes years to learn because you have to develop these skills over time through continued correct practice... If you live near Washington DC check out GRTC they are the best I know of. Otherwise if you must get defensive... cover your head, don't swing wildly, better to move than stay still, keep on your feet and run toward lights, noise and people. |
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| | #13 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Barleylands, United Kingdom
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..for the record, I don't see OP's post as violent at all.. I agree with the saying that the real master is not the one who wins the fight, but the one who doesn't get into the fight in the first place, but in real life situations, some degree of physical violence is often necessary and in extreme cases traumatizing or killing the aggressor is the best way to go, because if you don't, they'll traumatize, rape or kill you (or all of that). |
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| | #14 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2011
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| | #15 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: perth WA
Posts: 162
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Judging by the listed ways you'd like to incapacitate the opponent, then I'd say the throwing styles would meet your interest. Jiujitsu, aikido, judo, tancracean. However, for the emphasis of needing no strength, you would need to have the strategy of using their body weight against them(many systems emphasise this anyway Otherwise, wing chun, though it does rely on strikes, does not need a lot of power, it's all in the form and is very fast. I'm also a fan of internal systems |
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| | #17 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississauga, On Canada
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Okay, I guess I should offer some input here since I'm what you call a martial arts 'lifer'. I've been training about 36+ years and have done both internal and external styles, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, kickboxing and 'freestyle'. I do have a side martial arts info site with an article called Choosing Martial Arts Styles that may help get you started. However, I don't totally understand your objectives. In all my 36+ years in martial arts, I fortunately have never had to resort to my self defense skills on the streets. As another poster mentioned, if you don't go looking for trouble, you probably won't find it. Martial arts is a long term training activity if you want to get all the benefits from them. If all you want to do is learn a couple of 'tricks' to fend somebody off, then yes, maybe a self defense course would be better for you. Even martial arts like judo and other styles which utilize more deflection rather than power striking, do not make you superman. Many of the techniques need to be trained on over and over again for any effectiveness and the body type does matter. That's why in many martial arts competitions, there are weight divisions. Yes there are techniques that smaller guys like me can do but don't be fooled by the propaganda - many of the classic techniques have shown to be less than effective on the street and in the MMA arena. Even if you want to learn quick 'deadly' techniques that are not legal in competition, to be able to do them well, you need to train with others since nothing replaces training with real moving human targets (as opposed to doing this yourself at home). And to do this is a longer term commitment. So, start with the article I mentioned above and if you have more specific questions that you want a martial arts lifer to answer, get more specific with your objectives. If you just want to learn how to fight without training to be powerful (even small guys can learn to be powerful), I would say that realistically, martial arts might not be for you. |
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| | #18 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal
Posts: 578
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Even in the most populated cities, as long as you don't go out of your way to look for trouble, it's extremely, extremely unlikely that you'll find it. Of course, if you frequently go to the dodgy areas of your city/town, well, you're basically asking for trouble. Don't go into the lion's den if the lions are hungry. | |
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| | #19 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
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I do sometimes find myself in iffy areas. It's just a fact of life if you hang out in major cities. | |
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| | #20 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal
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Also, you're a guy, like me. We don't have so much to worry about, even if we go to those areas. Of course if you're flailing your wallet around and you're dressed in rather wealthy clothes and you're by yourself, yeah, you're really asking for it, but otherwise, as men, we don't have the problems that women have. I feel for women when it comes to being assaulted, attacked, raped, etc. Women definitely have it worse than men in this regard. From the Illinois Department of Public Health: Quote:
If I was an attractive woman, I would definitely be more cautious. As a guy--meh. | ||
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| | #21 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,827
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My problem is the crazies, gangsters and crazy gangsters. Totally unpredictable, dangerous, and don't give a ♥♥♥♥. They don't have these guys wandering around Barcelona shouting at you randomly? It's a little unnerving to me.
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| | #22 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: perth WA
Posts: 162
| I don't encounter a lot of gangsters but I can relate to how unnerving it can when you have some shady and many times drunken or drugged individual yelling out at you trying to provoke you. I remember one guy was looking trying to provoke me, but I just didn't gratify him with any retaliation.
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| | #28 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Jan 2011
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One thing I have tried and it seemed to work for me and I'm sure any body who knows me will not be surprised I recommend this....lol, but you could ask the angels of protection to help you out in any situation you think is not going your way. I've tried this before myself, in situations that seem to be voilent and what happens is it seem's to defuse the whole thing. Sort of like having the bad guys just decide to go do something else and not bother you, or perhaps they might ignore you. What you do is this, say to yourself, in your mind if you want, 'I am now asking Archangel Michael and the angels of protection to please keep me safe and free from any type of harm'. This may seem not that useful, but if you say it a few times (I like to say it outloud, but not too loud that people will hear me) things should happen for you. Another technique you could use in addition to repeating that above invocation is to actually imagine angels, big ones, standing around you like body guards, and in your mind or outloud, tell the angels to stay with you through any sort of difficult situation. You could imagine them walking down the street next to you, and in front and in back of you. In angel books its been said that imagining angels around you will give you the same results as if you asked them to help you. They respond to thoughts very rapidly and can surround you in like one second in times of danger. I know this may seem a bit silly, but I would highly recommend it or at least try it out a few times, it's free and you don't have spend money on karate lessons. I even had a situation once, where something or someone seemed to attack me in my bedroom, I think it might have been an astral entity and all I did was call out to Archangel Michael and the angels of protection to help me and to get this "thing" whatever it was away from me... and in a matter of seconds all was back to normal. So psychic attacks or physical ones could be helped by asking the angels for assistance. Last edited by AngelPsychic444; 11-05-2011 at 07:36 AM. | |
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| | #29 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Nationality: British Soul: Otherworldly Current Location: Barcelona, Spain
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Partly in response to Bradshaw's mention of Barcelona, I have to say (living here too) I did once or twice get into a little trouble when I was walking alone, in the wrong part of town, on a friday or saturday night. Having learnt that lesson, there are places I avoid at those times if I'm alone. As far as I can remember, all of those times it was drugged up guys looking to screw with people for their own stimulation. Once some guy who was obviously high tried to pick my pocket. Another time someone who was also high actually did pick my pocket, but I gave him a glowering look and he gave it back (he was obviously doing it for sport and not for any practical reason). Finally, the last incident I was involved in, someone slapped me. He was trying to get me to fight (for fun apparently). If I had taken the bait I really would have gotten ♥♥♥♥ed up, seeing as he was with a group of friends, but I just did a 180 degree turn and walked away. Funnily enough all of these incidents happened within a relatively short space of time which makes me think that I was doing something to bring them upon me. Either I was transmitting the wrong sort of vibe, or I just hadn't gotten the necessary trust in my instincts or the necessary street smarts to avoid the wrong places at the wrong times. So what can I draw from this experience... I guess some martial arts knowledge wouldn't have been bad. On the other hand there are much better ways, at least for me, of staying safe. Basically avoidance is the most important thing. I don't feel unsafe in Barcelona. Except, as I said, in the wrong places at the wrong times, if I'm alone. But as it's so easy to avoid those places, I really don't feel like I need to learn martial arts to get by. Martial arts for me feels more like a sport than anything particularly practical. I don't see myself getting into much more dangerous situations in my life (actually none of the situations I've been in have been really dangerous; the worst I could have gotten were some bruises). I see good instinct and good common sense as being much more important than martial ability. And considering the really very small chance anything bad is going to happen to me, I don't feel like it's actually worth investing so much time practising in order to save myself in that event. Everyone dies one way or another. If I were so scared for my life I could put (even) more energy into eating well and exercising to be healthy; that would be much more likely to save my life, I think. I think there is something hidden underneath most people's desire to know martial arts to protect themselves. I think they want to be like in the movies, to feel power over others, to protect and grow their own pride. If you can take a slap and walk away you'll be much safer than if you attempt to fight back. Which means martial arts can actually be bad for your health in some cases. Not all, but I would encourage people to think about their actual motivations for doing them. Is the risk of getting irrevocably hurt in a fight that big? Compared to say, preventable lifestyle diseases? Is your sense of proportion and perspective in the right place here? Last edited by Andrew Gubb; 11-05-2011 at 12:35 PM. | |
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| | #30 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Many people have some sort of fantasy about becoming a real ninja or something, based on too many kung fu flicks, but what they don't realize is that real ninjas never wore the stereotypical black skin tight leotard...they wore armor, heavy, solid armor that was heavy as lead and they had to wear it during battles that would last for hours. The black leotard image was invented by hollywood. People have unrealistic ideas in their heads, and lots think it will make them 'cool', but this will only get them killed in a real fight, as they will be too busy worrying how good they look and not see that punch to the trachea coming. A lit cigarette, or a key held in between your index and third finger will cause enough damage that you can get the hell out of there while your assailant is too busy writhing in pain and trying to gasp for breath as you've punctured his lung, or burnt a third nostril in his nose. The aim is to not put yourself in dangerous situations to start with and if you do get into a situation, make sure he goes down and stays down. As to your point about why would anyone want to get hurt...well, in a real situation you might have to choose between getting a little hurt and getting a little dead. The point of training is to get your reflexes trained so you react naturally to immediate threat. It also teaches you about pain tolerance, so that if you ever do get in trouble you are prepared to get hurt. The idea is to keep fighting, as a warrior would, in spite of any pain dealt to you. Overcoming the fear of getting hurt is pivotal in martial arts, and harnessing that fear so that you fight anyway. The fact that training increases your confidence though often means you will never be targetted in the first place, so it would only be needed in extreme cases, like a hostage situation, or a bank robbery etc. Places where you weren't looking for trouble and in relatively safe areas, but trouble found you anyway. If it's only a slap you receive then walking away is probably the best action you can take, but not all scenarios will be just a slap and if you are in real danger it becomes about making sure you hurt them intensely so they can't hurt you first. If you have to kill them you don't hesitate. Using Psychology is always a better option I find. If you stare down a potential rapist, and show no fear, he will likely leave you alone and run off to find someone a little more easily intimidated and less likely to fight. You're right that common sense prevails, always...and good instincts are a good thing to be in touch with. Last edited by elucidate; 11-05-2011 at 01:01 PM. | |
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