What should kids eat to be healthy?

[SarahJaynee]

I have 2 kids (9 and 3). The 9 year old is a bland 'yellow and white' food kid, she wont touch a veg or fruit unless forced (which I don't do). She is super healthy and has never been sick in her life.
My 3 year old loves fruit and veg. She will eat papaya and melon for brekkie, broccli heads and carrots for lunch and peas with her dinner! She has been hospitalised 5 times this year due to stomach bugs (kids dehydrate quickly when sick so usually need a stay in hospital on IV to rehydrate).

My friend is asking questions about my 9 year olds diet, saying that I should hide veg in her food or insist she eat them.

I came across this article in a UK magazine...
"If you wanted to eat EVERY vitamin and mineral this is what you would have to eat... (note: not 1 fruit makes the list and broccli or spinach are the only veggies worthy!)

liver (good for all vitamins and packed with minerals),

sardines (for vitamin D and calcium), ...we get our Vit D from the sun so we could eliminate this if we drink milk

eggs (all-round super-food with vitamins A, B, D, E and K, iron, zinc, calcium and more),

sunflower seeds (magnesium, vitamin E and zinc)

dark-green vegetables such as broccoli or spinach (for vitamins C, K and iron).

milk (good for calcium, vitamins A and D),

porridge oats (magnesium, zinc and B vitamins)

cocoa powder (magnesium and iron)

hey presto, you’re provided with the full quota of every vitamin and mineral our bodies need.

The facts are these. There are 13 vitamins and fruit is good for just one of them, vitamin C.

Vegetables offer some vitamins — vitamin C and the vegetable form of the fat-soluble vitamins A and vitamin K1 — but your body will be able to absorb these only if you add some fat, such as butter or olive oil.

The useful forms of A and K — ♥retinol and K2 respectively — are found only in animal foods. As for minerals, there are 16 and fruit is good for one of them, potassium, which is not a substance we are often short of, as it is found in water.

Vegetables can be OK for iron and calcium but the vitamins and minerals in animal foods (meat, fish, eggs and dairy products) beat those in fruit and vegetables hands down. There is far more vitamin A in liver than in an apple, for instance. "

The article makes me feel better about my eldest daughters eating habits (although I agree she should eat less bread and potato chips!).

What do children need nutritionally? I mean really without all the government crap fueled by food industries.

[nzmegs]

So the government guidelines are "five a day" - meaning five portions of fruit or veg. This is about minimum I would say.

i have two kids too and they are very healthy and about the right weight for their age (underweight if anything).

they eat toast for breakfast (no sugary cereals in our house!), school dinners for lunch which have two portions of vegetables, meat/fish and vegetables for dinner. Snacks are fruit.

Once a week they have sweets.

I say don't worry too much. Judge your kids by how well they seem and how active they feel.

Don't question too much becuase the last thing you want is faddy eating when they reach their teenage years.

they also say it takes 20 times of trying a new food for a child to like it. So just insist your daughter tries one mouthful of something new every day.

[nzmegs]

looking at your list - I have already eaten everything on it today except the meat/fish (I am vege). But will be having some tofu later.

I guess i should be feeling perfect....

[firenexx]

A few things.

First, that quoted info seems to dislike fruit. Do they not understand macronutrients? Fruits provide simple carbohydrates, which you need for direct energy. They provide fiber. But back to the micronutrients. Fruits are not only good for vitamin C. What a simplistic view of nutrition they have. Watermelon has a ridiculous amount of lycopene. Papayas have papain, and pineapples have bromelain, both very important for joint health. Maybe they are just looking at the nutrition facts labels, which, for space's sake, sometimes only list Vits. A, C, Iron, and Calcium and maybe one or two more.

sardines (for vitamin D and calcium), ...we get our Vit D from the sun so we could eliminate this if we drink milk

Please note that calcium intake has more to do with calcium absorption than actual intake. Milk is often fortified with an inferior form of calcium that is inorganic (chemistry term, not USDA certification) and therefore less absorbable. As for absorption, if your overall diet is acidic (has a low pH) then your body will pull calcium from the bones to balance the pH. A better way to ensure you have enough calcium is to get it from leafy greens, soaked/sprouted nuts and seeds, and/or unpasteurized, unfortified dairy - all while eating alkaline foods to ensure your body does not need to pull out calcium to maintain the pH. Google a list of alkaline and acid-forming foods. If you are really interested, you can find saliva pH test strips. I prefer to just guess .
Fish is not good to rely on regularly due to the mercury content (the FDA recommends a very limited amount of fish in the diet because of this.)
As for Vitamin D. We get it from the sun, yes, but only if we spend time in the sun. People tend to sit at computers inside all day. You need exposure every day. Also above a certain latitude and during winter in many areas, you don't get any Vitamin D due to the angle and refraction of the sun's rays. Avoid products such as milk that are fortified with Vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol.) D2 is worse than useless. Many people who live in northern regions like to supplement with D3 (cholecalciferol) in the winter when they cannot get it from the sun. One more thing about Vitamin D (which is technically a hormone not a vitamin.) Studies have indicated that if you wash the exposed skin area with soap within 48 hours of exposure, the D is not absorbed. Does this mean you need to be a dirty hippie? No way. But, the purely American process of washing the entire body with harsh, skin-drying soap in a 10 minute burning hot shower twice a day is a little extreme. If you shower once a day, you can solve this problem by only applying soap to the areas that need it - head, butt, armpits, crotch. Once a week you can wash the entire thing. Your skin and your body will thank you.

The daughter who won't eat veggies or fruits might be OK now, but all the starchy carbs (bread, chips, white pasta) will catch up with her. Shortly after puberty she'll start packing on a few pounds and getting acne, which can lead to depression. Try learning fun ways to prepare veggies, or sneaking them in. Sometimes I make mashed potatos by steaming the potatoes and throwing some baby spinach in near the end. Some kids won't eat "salad" salad but they will eat coleslaw and similar things. Taco or hamburger night? Make sure she throws lots of veggies on it. Strawberries are good on pancakes. Gradually increase the amount of strawberries/blueberries and decrease the thickness of the starchy, carb-y, fattening pancake. There are no limits to the ways you can make a picky eater eat fruit and veggies.

[SarahJaynee]

The "5 aday" message is a marketing ploy devised by the fruit and veg industries - it is not backed up by ANY scientific research.
Thus my question is what should kids really eat to be healthy?
We have been fooled into thinking that "fruit is filled with vitamins and minerals" - this is wrong out of the few dozen vitamins fruit only contains 1 - Vit C.
Coffee and dark chocolate are far superior sources of antioxidants than any berry.

For me I love veg and salad more than anything but my 9 year old has always been averse to them. Before I begin to rant and force and encourage more veg and fruits I would like to know the truth from the myths.
It's already been exposed (in the UK at least) that the 5 aday message was just a marketing ploy - and yet for a while I was trying to plan ways to hide 5 portions a day in her diet!

Anyone here who can separate the truth from the myths?

[Razia]

I think its not necessary you should give certain things to the kids to be healthy,but give them homemade food then whatever it may be...

[firenexx]

The "5 aday" message is a marketing ploy devised by the fruit and veg industries - it is not backed up by ANY scientific research.

"Fruit and veg industry" ????
... Sorry, I'm laughing so hard, I can't even respond.
There is no such thing as a "fruit and veg industry." In fact, that's the area of food that has the least industry representation.
I should also mention that "scientific research" certainly does say that fruit and vegetables are healthy. Just look at the nutrition data that has been found using scientific analysis. (Not just a bunch of guys at the FDA guessing, being paid off by the "fruit and veg" industry.)

Thus my question is what should kids really eat to be healthy?

Obviously not fruit and veggies. Try feeding them a diet composed of white (refined) pasta, chips and other deep-fried potato products, refined sugars, and extruded cereal grains in a bowl of pasteurized CAFO milk.

We have been fooled into thinking that "fruit is filled with vitamins and minerals" - this is wrong out of the few dozen vitamins fruit only contains 1 - Vit C.

If you think that fruit only contains Vitamin C out of all the dozens of micronutrients, you are only looking at the abridged "nutrition facts" label on the package. As I previously mentioned, they are only legally required to list 4 if they want to save space, as most of them do because they know most people don't read labels. The remaining data is available from the FDA and other nice organizations.

Coffee and dark chocolate are far superior sources of antioxidants than any berry.

Unlike "any berry," coffee and dark chocolate
-Need refined sugar to taste good
-Are essentially ground, dry seeds - not the best to digest
-Are extremely acid-forming
-Contain caffeine, which has been proven (scientifically, no doubt) to be linked to things like ADHD when children are allowed to partake.
So feed your kids coffee and cacao mixed with sugar instead of blueberries. They will love you for it.

Anyone here who can separate the truth from the myths?

You will not find anyone here, or or any other health and fitness related forum, that will tell you that fruit and vegetables are not good for you. They are nutritionally dense and alkaline. There is no "marketing ploy," there is no "scam," and there is no "fruit and veg industry."

In Genesis, God specifically tells Adam and Eve that fruit, vegetables, nuts, and seeds are to be their food.
After the flood, he tells them that they are now allowed to eat meat.
So those things are pretty good. If they're good enough for God, they're good enough for me.

[SarahJaynee]

Below is a post from Zoe Harcombe's blog. If you Google the 5 aday myth you get plenty of peer reviewed results.
Fruit is definitely not a "good" food that should be eaten in large quantities. that said, of course if you are currently dining on nutritionally bankrupt white carbs then fruit is better.
Veg is great as it has so few cals compared to carbs and proteins, and as most peoples goals are to remain slim this goes a long way to helping them.
I read the China Study and was inspired by their research of the detriments of eating meat and sticking to a plant based diet, but their research was more about the bad effects of meat rather than the great effects of plants (although of course the alternative of meat is plants so that can be interpreted either way.

Here is Zoe's blog....
"I discovered during the writing of my book “The Obesity Epidemic” that five-a-day was invented by a bunch (ha ha) of fruit & veg companies at a meeting with the American National Cancer Institute in 1991 (not 1998, as the article says). The American National Cancer Institute has since trademarked the term and the fruit & veg manufacturers, logistics and packaging companies hit the jackpot with this marketing slogan, as it is now ‘out there’ in c. 25 countries across 3 continents.
It was good to see Tim Lang, Professor of Food Policy at City University London confirming the lack of evidence in the article: “It was a political fudge,” Lang says, “there was very little evidence basis for it. They just chose a figure that was aspirational but not so high as to be perceived as impossible to reach.” Lang, it seems however, would be happy if the bar were set at 9-a-day – as it already is in Australia & Greece. However, as happens with non-evidenced bases messages that spread, Denmark advises 6-a-day, Ireland 4-a-day and I detail the whole range of variations on p204 of my book."

[firenexx]

If you Google the 5 aday myth you get plenty of peer reviewed results.

If you google fruits and veggies being good for you you get plenty of peer reviewed results.
(C WUT I DID THAR)

Fruit is definitely not a "good" food that should be eaten in large quantities.

Ok, so you read one blogger that said that fruit only has Vitamin C, which by the way is completely false because as I said, nutritional labels on packaging are often abridged. You need learn the meaning of "take it with a grain of salt." Maybe next you will read a blog where a guy says "Most food only has one or two nutrients and is worthless." Then if you believe him, you will have to stop eating.

I read the China Study and was inspired by their research of the detriments of eating meat and sticking to a plant based diet, but their research was more about the bad effects of meat rather than the great effects of plants (although of course the alternative of meat is plants so that can be interpreted either way.

So you think fruits and veggies aren't that great and meat has bad effects. What else does that leave? Grains and dairy. So load 'em up with that. Grains and dairy (especially in the way they are processed today) are far less nutritionally dense than meat, fruit, and vegetables. So maybe you should rename this thread "What should kids eat to be unhealthy?" You're narrowing down your options here. There are only so many types of food to choose from.

Here is Zoe's blog....
"I discovered during the writing of my book “The Obesity Epidemic” that five-a-day was invented by a bunch (ha ha) of fruit & veg companies at a meeting with the American National Cancer Institute in 1991 (not 1998, as the article says). The American National Cancer Institute has since trademarked the term and the fruit & veg manufacturers, logistics and packaging companies hit the jackpot with this marketing slogan, as it is now ‘out there’ in c. 25 countries across 3 continents.
It was good to see Tim Lang, Professor of Food Policy at City University London confirming the lack of evidence in the article: “It was a political fudge,” Lang says, “there was very little evidence basis for it. They just chose a figure that was aspirational but not so high as to be perceived as impossible to reach.” Lang, it seems however, would be happy if the bar were set at 9-a-day – as it already is in Australia & Greece. However, as happens with non-evidenced bases messages that spread, Denmark advises 6-a-day, Ireland 4-a-day and I detail the whole range of variations on p204 of my book."

Ok, this is some guy's blog. Cool. Of COURSE "5-a-day" is a marketing slogan, you can tell by the fact that it is plastered on everything. That does not inherently mean that fruits and vegetables are bad, and just because that guy laughs at it and says there's no evidence does not mean that there is none. Did you research it yourself or are you taking his word for it? This is a classic logic fallacy that you are falling for. Take something like kale. So say the Kale Grower's association makes a marketing slogan: "Kale for your daily Kale-cium and Vitamin K." It is a little lame. You see it everywhere, on billboards, stop signs, food cartons. Then you see on some guy's blog that it is just a marketing ploy by the Kale Grower's Council. Does that automatically mean that their claim is incorrect? (Hint: It isn't: RD Talks about Kale Column on right has scientific, peer-reviewed USDA Data for Kale)
Big, Resounding, NO. You are incorrectly assuming that because it is a marketing ploy and because some guy on a blog is ranting about it, it is incorrect. Until you actually research it for yourself, you are taking his word for it that there is no "evidence" or "peer-reviewed studies." Actually, there are, but you believe him so quickly you assumed there weren't.
9 a day would be great. I only eat 2-3 times a day, but I (just estimating here) follow a mostly raw food diet and consume about 10-20 "servings" of fruit a day and 5-10 "servings" of vegetables. I can assure you, having analyzed my nutrition intake (using scientific, peer-reviewed, publicly available data, of course) that I have a far better diet than 99% of the population in developing nations. If fruit and vegetables were bad for you, don't you think that my diet, composed almost entirely of fruit and vegetables, wouldn't yield such ridiculously high values for almost every micronutrient?

Fruits and vegetables are healthy. There are mounds upon mounds of documented, scientific, peer-reviewed evidence pointing to their nutritional content. Go look at a nutrition database instead of a blog.

[Eisho]

I also have two children and tend more towards fruit with them. Maybe once a week they are allowed pizza and once every couple of months McDonalds. They eat fruit in the morning, a school lunch (which in Japan is basically healthy) and a healthy meal in the evening which varies. Anything other than that is fruit or a healthy cereal for snacks.

I agree with what Firenexx is saying though. I am in my late thirties now and know people who up until recently had eaten and drunk whatever they wanted (maybe smoked as well), little exercise, and seemed to have suffered no ill effects. But those lifestyle decisions are catching up with them now. They are becoming seriously overweight, look old, no energy and in one case a friend is potentially facing very serious health problems (as in, he is already in danger of dying at an early age from a heart attack). The problem is exacerbated by the fact that being healthy and fit is not part of their daily routine.

Cheers,

Eisho

[Eisho]

This might be of interest...

I came across this pizza on YouTube for bodybuilders...low fat, low cal...I am gonna try it with my kids...

Low cal, low fat pizza.

Cheers,

Eisho

[firenexx]

When I make fun of my mother for eating MSG, she says "everything's alright in moderation." But she eats it almost every day without knowing it. It is easy to say "It is ok in moderation" and then ignore how much you are actually doing something.