Calling all vegetarians/vegans to be concerned on Soy products (again!)

[escapee]

I'm facing a dilemma of whether to share the below story or not ( Most of the people are entrenched with their own belief until they hit the wall hard ) , but i decided to because it may actually be really useful to someone who are in trouble and not knowing that soy is the main culprit.

Note : If you 're eating once per week with iodine/protein rich seafood or meat (like the Asian typically does, it's unlikely to be so harmful ) .

The below article comes from an email shared by a friend.

ONE WOMAN'S STORY ON SOYA... All Males - Please pass this info to all
your female friends... It may save their lives! Something to take note
of. This is my true story, nothing altered. These are facts, as they
relate to my experience, my opinions based on what I have read and
felt. I am relating them to warn other young health-conscious women
who are unwittingly harming themselves.

In 1989, I graduated from high school in Texas and couldn't wait to
hit the big college city. One of the changes I wanted to make was to
eat healthier. Once I moved to health-conscious Austin, Texas, I
began to fortify my body with the best and healthiest foods I could
find.

Tofu was the main ingredient in every healthy dish and I bought soya
milk almost every day used it for everything from cereal to smoothies
or just to drink for a quick snack. I bought soya muffins, miso soup
with tofu, soybeans, soybean, sprouts, etc. All the literature in all
the health and fitness magazines said that soya protected you against
everything from heart disease to breast cancer.

It was the magical isoflavones, the estrogen-like hormones that all
worked to help you stay young and healthy. I looked great, I was
working out all the time, but my menstrual cycle was off. At 20, I
started taking birth control pills to regulate my menstrual cycle.

In addition to this I began to suffer from painful periods. I began to
get puffy, it was as though I was losing my muscle tone. I began to
suffer from depression and getting hot flashes. I mistook all this for
PMS since my periods were irregular. By the time I was 25, my periods
were so bad, I couldn't walk. The birth control pills never made them
regular or less painful so I decided to stop taking them.

I went on like this for another two years until I realized my pain
wasn't normal. At 27 , my gynecologist found two cysts in my uterus.
Both were the size of tennis balls. I went through surgery to have
them removed and thank God they were benign. The gynecologist told me
to go back on birth control pills. I didn't. In 1998, he discovered a
lump in my breast. Again, I went through surgery and again it was
benign. In November 2000 my glands swelled up and my gums became
inflamed. Thinking I had a tooth infection I went to the dentist who
told me that teeth were not the problem.

After a dose of antibiotics the swelling still did not go down. At
this point I could feel a tiny nodule on the right side of my neck. I
told my mother I had thyroid trouble. She thought I was being silly.
No one in the family suffered from thyroid trouble. Going on a hunch
I saw a specialist who diagnosed me with Papillary Thyroid Carcinoma.
After a series of tests he told me it was cancer. My fiance and I sat
stunned. We were not prepared and I was so scared. We scheduled
surgery right away.

The specialist told us that it would only be after the operation that
a pathologist would be able to tell us for sure if it was cancer. They
found a tumor at my right lobe composed of irregular cells and another
smaller tumor growing on the left, so the entire thyroid was removed.
They told me that after undergoing radioactive iodine I would be safe
and assured me that I could live a long life.

After treatment I began to search for the cause of all these problems.
I never once thought it could be all the soya I had consumed for
nearly ten years. After all, soya is healthy. I came upon a web page
that linked thyroid problems to soya intake and the conspiracy of soya
marketed as a by-product of the vegetable oil industry. This was
insane, after all, the health and fitness magazines had said nothing
about soya being harmful.

I visited a herbalist who was diagnosed with thyroid cancer in 1985.
She informed me that soya was the culprit. She had a hysterectomy due
to cysts and other uterine problems. A few months later another
acquaintance who had consumed soya came down with thyroid cancer.

A girl in England I met through the Internet in a thyroid cancer forum
had just undergone surgery and she was only 19. What was going on?
Breast cancer is linked to estrogen. What mimics estrogen in the
female body, SOYA!

But I never suspected soya because until now I never once found a
single article that stated soya could be dangerous. Women who took
soya prior to thyroid problems will continue to take it after if they
are not aware of what soya actually does, what it contains and how it
reacts in the female body. I think this is the reason that women with
thyroid cancer often develop breast cancer later.

My co-worker is big into soya and I see her losing hair and gaining
weight despite a walking workout during her break and after work, and
apples and oranges for lunch. She just had cysts removed from her
uterus too. I warned her to stay off soya. I referred her to websites
but until it is on the evening news on all four networks , women will
suffer. Since the thyroidectomy, I do not touch soya, haven't for two
years.

Dear readers ,
Please use my story in any way you can. There are so many young girls
who are consuming soya because they think they are taking care of
themselves, and women taking soya because they want to be healthy. It
is so unfair that the information about the dangers of soya isn't more
widely circulated. It is sad.

There are many out there who feel this way and it is a terrible blow
when you realize you are not as healthy as you thought and that the
information that you depended on was wrong.

Reference
GMO Genetic Engineering: Soya alert over cancer and brain damage link
"Scientists versus the soya industry"
Soya and Health - Organic and Wholefood by the Haelan Centre

It contains high quantities of various toxic chemicals, which cannot be fully destroyed even by the long cooking process. These are: phytates, which block the body's uptake of minerals; enzyme inhibitors, which hinder protein digestion; and haemaggluttin, which causes red blood cells to clump together and inhibits oxygen take-up and growth

[stellabeam]

I am sorry you have had such a terrible experience.

I have been having soya products for 20 years and have never experienced any of the symptoms that you have had. I eat soya products 2 or 3 times a week and drink the milk nearly every day. I am 49 years old, and very healthy.

A lot of research done on food is done by parties with a vested interest. I would always dig deep to find out who is at the bottem of the "research" before I take it on.

Thankyou for sharing your experience and possibly helping many people.

[escapee]

The story is not a research, it's a personal story shared by a friend's mail. Like i said, Ppl are entrenched with their own belief and experience until they hit the wall.

Good luck with your soy .

[Erin Pavlina]

People who eat soy get cancers. People who don't eat soy get cancers.

This personal story does not prove source of her problem.

Also, soy is a phytoestrogen, and does not react in the body like mammalian estrogen. If estrogen is to blame, it is more likely it came from meat or dairy products which are overloaded with estrogen to make the cows produce more meat and milk.

Soy in its basic form is probably your best bet in terms of healthy ways to eat it. Soy protein isolate is not something you want to eat a lot of. Avoid over processed soy foods, eat unproccessed soy like soy beans or edamame.

[escapee]

Also, soy is a phytoestrogen, and does not react in the body like mammalian estrogen.

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Soya 'link' to male infertility
Well , there are plenty of studies that disagree with your statement. Below is not a personal story but a research study done in Belfast.

If men are consuming large amounts of soya products, for example, there is a negative relationship between that and the quality of their sperm
Dr Sheena Lewis
Queen's University, Belfast

Entrez PubMed

In conclusion, soy protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones, providing evidence for some effects of soy protein on hormones.

Soy in its basic form is probably your best bet in terms of healthy ways to eat it

The safest form of soy food is the fermented one, not in its basic form (rich in trypsin inhibitor and phytate acid ) or the processed form by the food industry like soy infant formula.

Fermented soy products - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[escapee]

blame, it is more likely it came from meat or dairy products which are overloaded with estrogen to make the cows produce more meat and milk.

Its a well known fact that commercially raised livestock is unhealthy. Furthermore, when you grill the meat with high heat and damaged vegetable oil even if it's grass fed . The meat becomes a carcinogen filled with damaged EFAs and heterocyclic-amines

The researchers assessed the diets and cooking habits of 176 people diagnosed with stomach cancer and 503 people without cancer. The researchers found that those who ate their beef medium-well or well-done had more than three times the risk of stomach cancer than those who ate their beef rare or medium-rare.

Remember Masai and Eskimo who consume the food raw ..

[Mayo]

Yes i heard about soy horor story too..

my goal is also to go 100% raw... the only problem is adjusting to veg & raw food kind of dishes and prepairing them

for now only know how to prepare veg stu and veg pizza but i don't know how to transfer complete dishes to vegetarian

[escapee]

There are certain type of food which you cannot go raw though .. like kidney bean ,

Some raw beans, for example kidney beans, contain harmful toxins (lectins) which need to be removed, usually by various methods of soaking and cooking. The soaking water from kidney beans should be discarded before boiling, and some authorities recommend changing the water during cooking as well.[citation needed] Cooking beans in a slow cooker, because of the lower temperatures often used, may not destroy toxins even though the beans do not smell or taste 'bad'[1] (though this should not be a problem if the food reaches boiling and stays there for some time).

broccoli, turnips, radish, cauliflower, and Brussels sprouts ( gaitrogen ).

[Erki]

Why can't I eat radish(the root) raw? I haven't heard of anyone cooking it.
And I've eaten raw turnip too...tasted pretty nice...

[joey m]

You can and should eat foods like broccoli, cauliflower, and Brussels sprouts raw. These foods in raw form (as well as steamed) provide you with some of the greatest phytochemical protection against various forms of cancer.

As is often the case, I disagree with much of what Escapee has posted. I am particularly wary of individual scare stories that are not documented. I would put more faith in this if you could show me doctor's records and definitive findings that this woman's problems were the result of soy, or that this isn't a fictional story.

Best,
Joey

[Amadeus]

Soy taste pretty darn good. I use it to supplement in place of cheese and milk. Remember, the milk industry is a multibillion dollar business. They have been known to do a great deal of reseach with a tilt of bias in their favor. It would not surprise me for a minute to find out that the dairy industry was part of this anti soy movement. Milk is not even a natural source of vitaimin D. They fortifiy it. Direct sunlight is the best source of vitamin D.

Erin has a great point. I know a few people who have died of cancer and guess what??? They all drank milk.

[Hoejer]

I am seriously laughing my ass of with the whole "milk industry is a million dollar businees".

Well guess what folks. What is the soy business then? It is definately a much much bigger business worldwide. And not thinking that the siy business has a agenda too is just naiv. The FDA might have been unduly influenced by the soybean growers don't you think? Soy protein is one of the most sold goods in the world. What a farce the soy business is.

Soy is also not a complete protein. It is missing methionine- an essential amino acid.

I really hate it any time a particular food is pointed to as the greatest or worst thing to put in our bodies.

You can't convince me that soy is necessary in our diets, nor can you convince me that eating a protein bar a day with soy protein is going to ruin my thyroid gland.

Moderation is the key, ya know?

[Amadeus]

Hoejer, are you laughing that you said the dairy industry is a "million dollar industry" when I said "billion dollar industry" or the fact that you think the soy industry is even a blimp on the radar scale compared to the dairy industry?

When you include cheese, butter, baby formula, most chocolates, pastas, and most snack foods, dairy is in the majority of the World's diet. I've gone most of my life without even seeing soy products. Since a baby, dairy has literally been in over half of everything I have eaten. Where do you get the idea that the soy industry does more business than the dairy industry. Either you are a liar, just poorly misinformd, or didn't go to elementary school where milk is the staple of the cafeteria diet. So what were you saying about the soy industry again?

[Hoejer]

When you include the soy protein used in animalfeed, then yes, it's quite a large industry.

My point was, that if you're against all the diaryindustry lobbyism - why not the soyindustri too? Open up your eyes, and stop being so biased.


No soy is not the "devil" as you might think I think. But I think every person should be wary of something that acts as a phytoestrogen. Even with modest consumption. Women especially should avoid excessive consumption.
I'm not pro or anti soy and I believe in moderation and balanced approaches to nutrition.

thanks for calling me a liar, stupid and misinformed. heightens the level of discussion. and what about commenting on all the other things I wrote?

[Amadeus]

I didn't call you stupid. I know you are not a liar. You are just misinformed...but

Animalfeed????

Trust me when I say a lot more money is spent on human's food compared to what animals eat. You are comparing Microsoft to Andy's computer shop in Lebannon, PA.

[escapee]

You can and should eat foods like broccoli, cauliflower, and Brussels sprouts raw.

Tell that to those with thyroid problem. THis is a big No from me! you should at least light steam the broccoli before consumption.

Let see what Joey's favorite health advisor has to say
Is Broccoli Bad for the Thyroid?

[escapee]

I'm not pro or anti soy and I believe in moderation and balanced approaches to nutrition.

That's true for traditional fermented soy .

Food fermentation has been said to serve five main purposes:[8]

1. Enrichment of the diet through development of a diversity of flavors, aromas, and textures in food substrates.
2. Preservation of substantial amounts of food through lactic acid, alcohol, acetic acid and alkaline fermentations.
3. Biological enrichment of food substrates with protein, essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, and vitamins.
4. Detoxification during food-fermentation processing.
5. A decrease in cooking times and fuel requirements.

[joey m]

Escapee, you may wish to look at something you do with health advice, and consider changing it -- because it is a recurrent pattern and it is not a good pattern.

You offer generic advice which is bad advice for the general public, but may have some merit for those with specific, albeit rare conditions. For instance, instead of saying those with thyroid conditions should monitor raw cruciferous intake, you say as a blanket statement that everyone should. This is terrible advice to the general public, as the benefits of eating the raw cruciferous veggies far outweighs the potential negative of the goitrogens.

The goitrogens will have no effect on most people, so why rob them of the benefits of the raw form of these vegetables because some small percentage of people MAY have some negatives with it?

Even those with thyroid conditions may not be affected by the goitrogens -- a blood test can show if it will affect you or not. So you are now talking about a really small portion of the overall population.

You have done this before with the Vitamin A issue, and it was similarly bad advice.

And for the record, I find Weil to be an informed person, but I disagree with him often -- and he is far from my favorite health advisor. But in this case, it looks like he is agreeing with what I am saying.

Best,
Joey

[escapee]

You offer generic advice which is bad advice for the general public, but may have some merit for those with specific, albeit rare conditions. For instance, instead of saying those with thyroid conditions should monitor raw cruciferous intake, you say as a blanket statement that everyone should. This is terrible advice to the general public, as the benefits of eating the raw cruciferous veggies far outweighs the potential negative of the goitrogens.

You should really say this infront of a mirror , you are the one who is giving bad public advice by promoting such thing as distilled water and now raw brocolli with your poor understanding on nutrition. You know how much damage is done when such an information fall on someone who is misinformed and gullible? Just light steam the brocolli and everyone should be fine .It's that simple . Please reflect on the what you've said in the past before giving your boring lesson here.

Even those with thyroid conditions may not be affected by the goitrogens -- a blood test can show if it will affect you or not. So you are now talking about a really small portion of the overall population.

By my experience, This is the craziest statement i have ever seen , my father has thyroid and raw brocolli is a banned food here . You wonder why ?

[escapee]

i'm a little regret to post the soy information. It's just not worth it. Moderator please feel free to close the thread.

[joey m]

Escapee,

You should really say this infront of a mirror , you are the one who is giving bad public advice by promoting such thing as distilled water and now raw brocolli with your poor understanding on nutrition.

Really? What is bad about raw broccoli for the average person without a thyroid condition. Please inform me.

Your statements are so often filled with emotion, spelling and grammatical mistakes, and misinformation that I often struggle to make sense of your posts. You continue to make claims and statements that have absolutely no scientific validity. When this is pointed out to you, you make strange comments like "look in the mirror."

You also either purposefully or ignorantly misstate my positions from previous posts. Again, this is not a good way to have discussions.

By my experience, This is the craziest statement i have ever seen , my father has thyroid and raw brocolli is a banned food here . You wonder why ?

I do not know what any of this means. As far as I know, your father is not alone in having a thyroid. Every person on the planet has one -- we are born with it much like we are born with a heart and lungs. Where is broccoli banned?

Best,
Joey

[escapee]

Dont waste my time Joey , if you're truely interested, please do a simple search on the net or consult a medical advisor . Save the distilled water and raw brocolli for yourself . TO give you head start , check out below info

I'm having so much frustration getting into discussion with you Joey (From the Protein myth, distilled water and now raw brocolli ). You seem to be coming from another planet with different digestive system.

Hypothyroidism
Causes of Hypothyroidism

There are a variety of factors that can contribute to the development of thyroid problems:

· Exposure to external radiation such as occurred after the Chernobyl nuclear plant accident.

· Over-consumption of isoflavone-intensive soy products such as soy protein or powder. Isoflavones act as potent anti-thyroid agents, and are capable of suppressing thyroid function, and causing or worsening hypothyroidism.

· Some anti-thyroid drugs, such as lithium and the heart drug cordarone.

· History of radiation treatment to the head and neck area.

· Over-consumption of uncooked "goitrogenic" foods, such as broccoli, turnips, radish, cauliflower, and Brussels sprouts.

· Radioactive iodine treatment for hyperthyroidism/Graves' Disease.

· Post-surgical removal of all or part of the thyroid due to nodules or cancer.

· Adrenal insufficiency (commonly caused by chronic stress).

· Mercury intoxication (amalgams are 50% mercury). Amalgam fillings have been associated with a variety of problems such as Alzheimer's disease, infertility, neurotransmitter imbalances, and thyroid problems.

[escapee]

Your statements are so often filled with emotion, spelling and grammatical mistakes, and misinformation that I often struggle to make sense of your posts. You continue to make claims and statements that have absolutely no scientific validity. When this is pointed out to you, you make strange comments like "look in the mirror."

Okay, I'm not interested in playing further semantic war with you. Health is a serious matter for me. End of discussion. Somebody lock this thread up .

[Erki]

I wonder how much do I have to eat raw radishes and turnips to get a health condition out of them? Is 5-7 radishes a day much?(let's say radishes with diametre of about 4 centimetres to make things clear)

[joey m]

Escapee,

I understand why it is frustrating for you. You like to make absurd claims without having anybody question you. Once questioned, you do not have scientific support for your claims, and this is uncomfortable for you. Again, if you stopped making claims that had little or no scientific support, I would not have to continue to point these things out to you.

Here is a good review of the current state of knowledge on goitrogens:

WHFoods: What are goitrogens and in which foods are they found?

[joey m]

Escapee -- This isn't semantics. If health is indeed a serious matter for you, approach it seriously not frivolously. Health is a serious matter for virtually everyone on this forum which is why we are on it in the first place. By being so cavalier about your statements and making so many false and unscientific claims, you do people on this site (and yourself) a great disservice.

[Lychee]

She had an excessive amount of soya and she got cancer. An excessive amount of anything will result in disease.

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by joey m

Escapee -- This isn't semantics. If health is indeed a serious matter for you, approach it seriously not frivolously. Health is a serious matter for virtually everyone on this forum which is why we are on it in the first place. By being so cavalier about your statements and making so many false and unscientific claims, you do people on this site (and yourself) a great disservice.

Well put...I hardly ever bother reading the Health and Fitness forum anymore because I have to wade through this sort of anecdotal fear mongering gibberish to find any good information. Next time anyone wants to post some random person's "experience" that (insert food item here) causes cancer, impotence, cold feet or whatever do us all a favor and DON'T. A lot of what causes cancer and other diseases is genetics along with other unknown and uncontrollable factors. To some degree, its all a crapshoot. On balance, of course, you're better maintaining a healthy diet than not but that alone won't prevent anything if your DNA comes up snake eyes...

This nonsense isn't much different than that right wing moron awhile back who suggested that soy milk caused homosexuality....

[escapee]

We already have an epidemic of Hypothyroidism and the obesity rate is at an unstopable upward trend with a large percentage of that caused by thyroid condition. Millions are leading a poor quality life as a result of thyroids related symptoms. To me it seems so naive to make such a bold recommendation that ppl should and can eat raw brocolli without first recognizing the negative impact on thyroid health and then put the blame on me for spreading false information based on the so called "invalid scientific facts or health studies" . More power to you Joey . I surrender.

[escapee]

A lot of what causes cancer and other diseases is genetics along with other unknown and uncontrollable factors.

Now even Joey would not agree with with you on this. The fact that Cancer was rare 100 years ago offers a huge giant clue for us to search for the controllable factors to minimize or eliminate the risk of contracting the disease.

Dr. Robert A. Weinberg of M.I.T., discoverer of the so-called oncogene
(cancer-causing genes), and one of the world’s leading cancer researchers, reversed his conclusions after discovering that, “[F]ewer
than one DNA base in a million appears to have been miscopied.” It’s not enough of a defect!6 His exact words, “…Something was
very wrong. The notion that a cancer developed through the successive activation of a series of oncogenes [cancer-causing genes]
had lost its link to reality.” Dr. Weinberg reversed his opinion; calling the genetic discoveries made thus far, “sterile”—the prime cause
of cancer is therefore not “genetic.” This was in 998. Did you hear it? Probably not. In 2006, the heads of the world’s largest cancer
research center in Houston, Texas (USA) know cancer’s prime cause isn’t genetic: “‘If it could have happened [solving cancer with
genetics], it would have already happened with genetic mutations,’ said William Brinkley, a senior vice-president at Baylor who says
other research should take precedence over the cancer genome project…. Dr. John Mendelsohn [president of M.D. Anderson Cancer
Center] states, ‘Any claims that this [genetic research] is going to be the key to curing cancer are not appropriate.’” Thus, the prime
cause of cancer is not a genetic mutation. Even if cancer “runs in your family,” there is real hope.

Reference
. “On the Origin of Cancer Cells,” Otto Warburg, Science, February 1956, Volume 123, Number 3191.
. One Renegade Cell: How Cancer Begins, by Robert A. Weinberg, Ph.D. (New York: Basic Books,
7 “Cancer: Looking Beyond Mutations,” by Eric Berger, Houston Chronicle, June 27, 2005, page 1.