Needs protein, Help!

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Benton

So the cow thing was a straw man. It's like saying "Cows get protein from grass, so it should be fine for dogs to eat just grass."

Of course there's protein in grass, as protein is one of the fundamental building blocks of life as we know it. The problem is many creatures have evolved to eat just grass. Horses are also big and strong, eat only grass and are not ruminants.

Saying that humans are "meant" to be herbivores is a slap in the face to decades and decades of research from archeologists and anthropologists who have proven, beyond any shadow of doubt that early *Homo sapiens* were omnivores.

Stop using modern human's ability to restrict their diet to whatever they want as proof that we're supposed to be vegetarians.

Well there's a lot of things to reply to here. Firstly human's ability to be purely herbivores is not the only proof I have. Secondly, the cow thing is meant to show that it is at least possible for some animals to be fine eating a low protein diet (leading us to consider that maybe we might be among those animals). A lot of people are so crazy about protein that this common sense idea is worth pointing out.

Don't give the cow thing any more importance than that. It's no "strawman" and in no way am I suggesting dogs should eat grass I think this conversation has become too convoluted now; we should leave the cow thing alone.

Thirdly, you use even more loaded language when you say that my suggestion that humans are herbivores is a "slap in the face". It's probably a slap in the face for priests for me to say that God is not a He and there is no Hell. But they'll get over it, and so will any archeologists who don't see where I'm coming from on humans being mainly herbivores.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Benton

Unless you "chew your cud" (ie burp up your last meal and rechew it several times) it certainly does make a difference. Most herbivores have a very different digestive system from humans.

He's missing the part about digestion, which allows the cows to get out every bit of protein, and also utilize it. I hate when people compare one animal ( us) to another animal. About the only thing we have in common is outward features.

[Benton]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Thirdly, you use even more loaded language when you say that my suggestion that humans are herbivores is a "slap in the face". It's probably a slap in the face for priests for me to say that God is not a He and there is no Hell. But they'll get over it, and so will any archeologists who don't see where I'm coming from on humans being mainly herbivores.

So. Now you're comparing science backed up with actual physical evidence versus a belief that has no evidence at all, physical or otherwise to back it up. Alright.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Benton

So. Now you're comparing science backed up with actual physical evidence versus a belief that has no evidence at all, physical or otherwise to back it up. Alright.

I have evidence! Where have you gotten the idea that I don't have evidence? Have you asked me for evidence?

Well, to be exact the case is a little more subtle than that - you've gotten the idea that I'm denying archeological evidence which isn't true - but one way or the other I do have facts to substantiate my point of view.

Ask me for them. Ask me to explain my point of view. I dare you.

[russianrocket]

I double dog dare you!! : D

[firenexx]

I'd hate to see the whole "anthropological evidence for x diet" discussion brought up for the nth time.
It goes something like this:
"People were hunter-gatherers"
"Yeah but they were mostly gatherers"
"Yeah but they still hunted"
"Yeah but apes eat 99% fruit and 1% meat (made up percentages)"
"Yeah but they still eat some meat, and ancient humans definitely ate significantly more"
"Yeah but that's only the ones that lived in cold climates where they couldn't grow chard year-round"
"But there are no ancient vegan civilizations, ask any anthropologist"
"Yeah but in Genesis, god says "I give ye fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds, and these shall be your food."

And on and on and on and on and on
Have you all not memorized this conversation by now? There is actually no end to it.

[Benton]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I have evidence! Where have you gotten the idea that I don't have evidence? Have you asked me for evidence?

Well, to be exact the case is a little more subtle than that - you've gotten the idea that I'm denying archeological evidence which isn't true - but one way or the other I do have facts to substantiate my point of view.

Ask me for them. Ask me to explain my point of view. I dare you.

First of all, it sounds like you're saying that early humans were wholly vegetarian, which I totally disagree with. If you are saying that they were primarily vegetarian, I would find that easier to palate.

I would like to see evidence showing more than a single population eating only plant matter and no animal flesh.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Benton

First of all, it sounds like you're saying that early humans were wholly vegetarian, which I totally disagree with. If you are saying that they were primarily vegetarian, I would find that easier to palate.

Well that is what I am saying. I'm saying, to be exact, that humans are physiologically adapted to following a primarily herbivorous diet. Like other creatures that are primarily herbivorous (including cows), they can and do eat some other things, but it's not what their system handles best.

[Benton]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Like other creatures that are primarily herbivorous (including cows), they can and do eat some other things, but it's not what their system handles best.

As a person who grew up around a dairy farm, I can say that I've never witnessed a cow eat something that isn't plant matter willfully. Sure, they'll eat pieces of metal and such (thus cow magnets) but that's only when it's mixed in with their normal roughage.

Farmers have been known to add poultry byproducts (including neural tissue) to cow's feed, but it's neither healthy nor safe.

I stand by my assertion that humans are not herbivores like a cow, horse or any other true herbivore. Nor are we carnivores. Which pretty much makes us omnivores.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Benton

As a person who grew up around a dairy farm, I can say that I've never witnessed a cow eat something that isn't plant matter willfully. Sure, they'll eat pieces of metal and such (thus cow magnets) but that's only when it's mixed in with their normal roughage.

Farmers have been known to add poultry byproducts (including neural tissue) to cow's feed, but it's neither healthy nor safe.

Well exactly. They are capable of eating meat. It's not healthy or safe. But they are capable of it.

I stand by my assertion that humans are not herbivores like a cow, horse or any other true herbivore. Nor are we carnivores. Which pretty much makes us omnivores.

OK, we agree to disagree.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Well exactly. They are capable of eating meat. It's not healthy or safe. But they are capable of it.


OK, we agree to disagree.

And just like cows, we are capable of "eating" metal, and it's not safe or healthy, but we are capable. What's your point again?

[Benton]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And just like cows, we are capable of "eating" metal, and it's not safe or healthy, but we are capable. What's your point again?

I thought PETA was the group "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals."

Learn something new everyday, I guess.

[cheesedip1]

I got the message when i got a ashakic record reading about this protein thing.

[cheesedip1]

They said i need more protein. They said it was for my body type. something like that.

[cheesedip1]

Im in college dorm at this period of my life, right now, so besides getting food on the weekend and bringing it back, im usually stuck with the cafeteria stuff. Their friuits and veggies arent exactly the best/

[nzmegs]

All I can say is use that college education of yours and read some books on food. even cafeteria food can be nutritionally sound if you choose right.

On the eat meat / don't eat meat thing: Can I side on both sides please? I am a vegetarian because I have an ethical dislike of the meat industry. I have no problem with other people eating meat and I fully believe that humans are meant to eat it. But we have the choice not to if we wish - there are alternatives. I choose to eat the alternaitves because it makes me feel better.

Some of us vegetarians are actually pretty sensible....

[cheesedip1]

Okay, long story short, I went into the akashic records and was told that for my dietary type, I need more protein.

Now of course, you can get protein from meat, tofu , nuts etc.


I just wish I knew what my body works best on.

[cheesedip1]

Update: Whatever the heck I'm doing, must be working, at least protein wise, because my protein levels are normal.

[AngelPsychic444]

How come nobody in this thread mentioned veggie protein shakes that contain lot's of protein...... as a solution? And if you do know a good a protein shake you can buy in a health food store can you recommend one or perhaps give me a link?


Thanks

[JamesKnochel]

Originally Posted by AngelPsychic444

How come nobody in this thread mentioned veggie protein shakes that contain lot's of protein...... as a solution? And if you do know a good a protein shake you can buy in a health food store can you recommend one or perhaps give me a link?

The best vegetarian source of protein are potatoes. Seed proteins are locked up for storage, and have all sorts of anti-nutrients to defend against their consumption by animals.

Gelatin is the best source of protein.

-James

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by JamesKnochel

The best vegetarian source of protein are potatoes. Seed proteins are locked up for storage, and have all sorts of anti-nutrients to defend against their consumption by animals.

Gelatin is the best source of protein.

-James

You'd Have to eat like 10 potatoes a day to get enough protien. Potatoes are a horrible source of protiens, and last time I checked , gelatin isnt vegetarian.

[nicolesville]

Originally Posted by cheesedip1

My guides say as a vegan I need more protein.

Does Tofu have some? What about nuts?

Idk, part of me doubts that the Frito Lay cooked nuts have some protein, if any,but I guess it's better than nothing, right?

I'm not really sure what has protein. Could some of you guys help me out here?
A list of protein sources would help.

The Simply Bar
Pacific Ultra Soy Milk
Kashi Go Lean Cereal Original
Smart Dogs
Smart Bacon
Tofurkey
Purefit Protein Bars (I like the Chocolate Brownie)
Edamame (another form of soybeans, can be frozen, served warm with salt, or freeze dried)
Cookies and Cream Protein by Spirutein (sugar is a little high but its a great treat!)
Nugo Free Bars
Gardein Brand Products


That should hold you over for some time

[firenexx]

I would say that most of the processed foods in that list of links are a very bad way to get protein because of the sketchy ingredients. I prefer whole foods.

[JamesKnochel]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

You'd Have to eat like 10 potatoes a day to get enough protien. Potatoes are a horrible source of protiens, and last time I checked , gelatin isnt vegetarian.

Potaoes, like milk, have very high water content, while seeds have very little. The proteins in these two items are absorbed much better than seed protein. Soybeans are the worst possible protein source.

Potato protein can be separated from the starch with a juicer, and the juice can be cooked.

-James

[nicolesville]

Originally Posted by firenexx

I would say that most of the processed foods in that list of links are a very bad way to get protein because of the sketchy ingredients. I prefer whole foods.

Thanks for noting the lack of "whole foods" in my list. I did want to elaborate; but was in a bit of a hurry at the moment I was replying to that post. It was by no means exhaustive, and was more of a way to give the OP quick ways to find protein, as opposed to items that they should be consuming all day everyday. I'd say that only about half of those have "questionable" ingredients, though most no doubt are more processed than say black beans, of course. Also, the OP doesn't specify their reason for being Vegan. Depending on where they are in their own level of nutritional development these items may actually be much healthier than their current diet (which seems to be the case when they mention Fritos) and are no doubt healthier than meat, dairy, etc. Also, they are great options to someone who is new to eliminating mean from their diet. I'd glad though that you brought this up, as I now feel responsible for giving them better suggestions; a more complete recommendation.

You can totally get all of your protein needs from basic / natural / unprocessed foods. In fact, it may be cheaper than buying the above products (those are just some of my favorite items). I'm often on the go, and honestly a little lazy, so I go with the latter, as opposed to spending time in the kitchen.

That being said, here is some information that I got from the Vegetarian Resource Group:

It is very easy for a vegan diet to meet the recommendations for protein, as long as calorie intake is adequate. Strict protein combining is not necessary; it is more important to eat a varied diet throughout the day


Table 1: Sample Menus Showing How Easy It Is To Meet Protein Needs (NOTE I recommend following the above link as the table there is much easier to follow and includes protein per full serving).



Protein (grams)

Breakfast: 1 cup Oatmeal 6
1 cup Soymilk 7
1 Bagel 9

Lunch: 2 slices Whole Wheat Bread 5
1 cup Vegetarian Baked Beans 12

Dinner: 5 oz firm Tofu 11
1 cup cooked Broccoli 4
1 cup cooked Brown Rice 5
2 Tbsp Almonds 4

Snack: 2 Tbsp Peanut Butter 8
6 Crackers 2

TOTAL 73 grams


Protein Recommendation for Male Vegan [based on 0.8-1 gram of protein per kilogram body weight for 70 kilogram (154 pound) male] 56-70 grams



Breakfast: 2 slices Whole Wheat Toast 5
2 Tbsp Peanut Butter 8

Lunch: 6 oz. Soy Yogurt 6
2 Tbsp Almonds 4
1 Baked Potato 4

Dinner: 1 cup cooked Lentils 18
1 cup cooked Bulgur 6

Snack: 1 cup Soymilk 7

TOTAL 58 grams


Protein Recommendation for Female Vegan [based on 0.8-1 gram of protein per kilogram body weight for 57.5 kilogram (126 pound) female] 46-58 grams
Additional food should be added to these menus to provide adequate calories and to meet requirements for nutrients besides protein.



Table 2 shows the amount of protein in various vegan foods and also the number of grams of protein per 100 calories. To meet protein recommendations, the typical adult male vegan needs only 2.5 to 2.9 grams of protein per 100 calories and the typical adult female vegan needs only 2.1 to 2.4 grams of protein per 100 calories. These recommendations can be easily met from vegan sources.

Table 2: Protein Content of Selected Vegan Foods (NOTE** Protein listed is gm/100 calories)


FOOD AMOUNT PROTEIN(gm)

Tempeh 1 cup 9.3

Seitan 3 ounces 22.1

Soybeans, cooked 1 cup 9.6

Lentils, cooked 1 cup 7.8

Black beans, cooked 1 cup 6.7

Kidney beans, cooked 1 cup 6.4

Veggie burger 1 patty 13.0

Chickpeas, cooked 1 cup 4.2

Veggie baked beans 1 cup 5.0

Pinto beans, cooked 1 cup 5.7

Black-eyed peas, cooked 1 cup 6.2

Tofu, firm 4 ounces 11.7

Lima beans, cooked 1 cup 5.7

Quinoa, cooked 1 cup 3.5

Tofu, regular 4 ounces 10.6

Bagel 1 med.

(3 oz) 3.9

Peas, cooked 1 cup 6.4

Textured Vegetable Protein (TVP), cooked 1/2 cup 8.4

Peanut butter 2 Tbsp 4.3

Veggie dog 1 link 13.3

Spaghetti, cooked 1 cup 3.7

Almonds 1/4 cup 3.7

Soy milk, commercial, plain 1 cup 7.0

Soy yogurt, plain 6 ounces 4.0

Bulgur, cooked 1 cup 3.7

Sunflower seeds 1/4 cup 3.3

Whole wheat bread 2 slices 3.9

Cashews 1/4 cup 2.7

Almond butter 2 Tbsp 2.4

Brown rice, cooked 1 cup 2.1

Spinach, cooked 1 cup 13.0

Broccoli, cooked 1 cup 6.8

Potato 1 med.

(6 oz) 2.7




Also, HERE is a great source that details information on getting Complete Proteins.

[firenexx]

Ahh, I guess I sort of unfairly judged you by that content. I forgot the whole nutritional development deal. It is true that sometimes one must "bridge the gap" between the terribly unhealthy foods and the pure foods that we would hope to eat one day.