The Ron Paul vs. Raw Foods movement

[EvolveWithFlavor]

I'm not sure if anyone here is really into politics, I know I haven't been for a while now, kind of apathetic to the extreme.

But there's something about this Ron Paul guy that really touches me to the core. When you see that it's so blatantly obvious that the other people on stage are panderers (whether they are using ridiculous imagery, making useless comparisons, or talking about the other person "Flip-Floping"), while Ron Paul consistently makes reasonable statements based on what he believes in. I do not think the man is perfect, he is a little repetitious and seems a bit angry or something (If he sees our qualms as clearly as I think he does, its for good reason).

Then I watched a DVD about the 2008 Ron Paul movement, "For Liberty" (on YouTube for Free - send them money or add it on your Netflix queue if you like it), and I really realized that this is a TRUE grassroots movement.

I have always had a distrust of the mainstream and I could really see in these Ron Paul supporter's eyes that they felt the EXACT same way. Better yet, they actually seemed educated, principled, willing to stand up for themselves, etc.

It brought tears to my eyes on multiple occasions, because THAT is precisely what is lacking today in America, people who don't just blatantly follow.

Then I realized, THIS is the ESSENCE of the RAW FOODS movement as well (I know its a stretch, I only noticed it because I am involved in Raw Foods and was apathetic about politics until I saw this Ron Paul movie). We are GROWING. We may soon achieve REALLY great breakthroughs.

Basically, I think the Ron Paul campaign may spark important change across ALL fronts.

[scorpio1980]

Glad to see another new Ron Paul supporter. He has a real chance this time around. Spread his message to help others see the light. People have been wanting real positive change for years. If people only see that Dr. Paul is that change we all not only want, but need.

[Gabo]

Ron Paul also supports freedom in food choice. He opposes federal regulations on Raw Milk, as well as the massive federal subsidies to the meat and grain industries that have helped cause a lot of dietary problems in the US.

[ginkgo]

What would America do with all the hundreds of billions of dollars it would save by bringing all the troops home? Yes he believes that government should not be telling people how to lead their lives.

The governor of his state, Rick Perry is running for president and doing well. He signed a bill forcing 12 year old girls to get an STD vaccine. This is about health! Ron Paul denounced this on this video:

Video: Ron Paul's Answers from GOP Debate

[garentee]

As much as I agree with a lot of Ron Pauls ideas, The reality is that this election is bought and sold by the corporate media and the corporations that are in the upper levels of government. We live in a Corpratocracy.. plain and simple..Ron Paul is the antithesis of what the powers that be are interested in...You really do not have to dig all that deeply to figure it out..

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by garentee

As much as I agree with a lot of Ron Pauls ideas, The reality is that this election is bought and sold by the corporate media and the corporations that are in the upper levels of government. We live in a Corpratocracy.. plain and simple..Ron Paul is the antithesis of what the powers that be are interested in...You really do not have to dig all that deeply to figure it out..

We don't really live in a Corpratocracy (is that even a word?) when you consider the fact that Ron Paul is already a member of Congress, and Congress is the body of power that defines all the other powers in the country, including those of the President.

[stanmrak]

I've read that Ron Paul actually doesn't want to be president as much as he wants to share his vision. That proves that he's actually smarter than people think!

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

We don't really live in a Corpratocracy (is that even a word?) when you consider the fact that Ron Paul is already a member of Congress, and Congress is the body of power that defines all the other powers in the country, including those of the President.

Uh... Ron Paul is one of the rare members of Congress who hasn't been bought by big corporations. They will make sure he doesn't get elected by controlling media coverage of his message. Congress is there to give you the illusion that your vote matters. They're just puppets.

George Carlin -"Who Really Controls America" - YouTube

[James Fletcher]

"There's always a bigger fish." - Qui-Gon Jinn, The Phantom Menace.

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by garentee

As much as I agree with a lot of Ron Pauls ideas, The reality is that this election is bought and sold by the corporate media and the corporations that are in the upper levels of government. We live in a Corpratocracy.. plain and simple..Ron Paul is the antithesis of what the powers that be are interested in...You really do not have to dig all that deeply to figure it out..

Clearly the corporate media can't buy and sell everyone. They can try to prevent Ron Paul's message from reaching people, but they can't stop people from voting for him once they hear his message! That's why I try to tell everyone I can about Ron Paul. If we let our voices be heard, we can win despite all the efforts of the corporate media. It just takes a willingness to stand up to them and tell them "NO".

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by EvolveWithFlavor

I have always had a distrust of the mainstream and I could really see in these Ron Paul supporter's eyes that they felt the EXACT same way. Better yet, they actually seemed educated, principled, willing to stand up for themselves, etc.

I discussed this in my blog ...

The Daily Chronolog

Not into the raw food or the vegan thing, but whatever trips your trigger.

[Haupi]

Just when I washed my hands of the whole lot of 'em....somebody like Ron Paul comes around and pulls me back in. I'm part of that grassroot effort!

[vivekt17]

Hey man,

I've been a supporter of Ron Paul supporter for a long time. He was always the politician who was the most conscious and made the most sense to me.

I supported him in 08 and love his energy. Except that his supporters may have hardened him into a mindset where he doesn't think of himself as a mainstream, serious choice for the country - that's reflected in how the media views him as well. Quite a number of his supporters are a little opinion-drunk and hence, pretty unconscious themselves. I feel that undermines the potential of the movement.

But nice to see you all out here for limited government, fiscal discipline and civil liberties!

Cheers!

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Gabo

Clearly the corporate media can't buy and sell everyone. They can try to prevent Ron Paul's message from reaching people, but they can't stop people from voting for him once they hear his message! That's why I try to tell everyone I can about Ron Paul. If we let our voices be heard, we can win despite all the efforts of the corporate media. It just takes a willingness to stand up to them and tell them "NO".

Even if he were to get elected, he is but one man and the system is far far more powerful then the president.... You can run on a platform, but once elected it is usually a far different scenario. Stanmrak nails it...

[Gabo]

Originally Posted by garentee

Even if he were to get elected, he is but one man and the system is far far more powerful then the president.... You can run on a platform, but once elected it is usually a far different scenario. Stanmrak nails it...

Things the President could immediately do using his powers:

- Bring home all troops from overseas
- Pardon all non-violent drug offenders
- End all unconstitutional executive orders

These things alone would mark a radical shift in policy, both foreign and domestic.

[ginkgo]

A lot of the politicians and corporate media will be against Ron Paul, but he can still win.

[Andrew Brunelle]

The whole problem with Ron Paul is he will never get the nomination for president, and even if he does, the media will bash him so bad to the point most people won't vote for him. He gets no media attention as it is now. Whoever runs for president is decided beforehand, and very rarely does anyone mess that up. If they do, well, you all know what happens to them.

This country was bought and paid for years ago, and now it's just a charade. I think Ron Paul has good ideas, but I don't agree with him on everything, and although I think he is s stand-up guy and a wonderful visionary, there is virtually no chance I think he would be in office for more than a few months before he takes some kind of bullet.

Anyone who challenges the status quo is going to have a rough time getting into office, as always. Especially radical people like Ron Paul. Neither party would even vote for over half his ideas, and although the party system is broken , it is still in place.

In a perfect world, he'd be a pretty good leader. In this world, he'll never get into a position of power other than Senator or Governor.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Gabo

Things the President could immediately do using his powers:

- Bring home all troops from overseas
- Pardon all non-violent drug offenders
- End all unconstitutional executive orders

These things alone would mark a radical shift in policy, both foreign and domestic.

I am talking more about the day to day stuff such as the laws that favor the big corporations, the subsidies that favor big corporations and the special privileges that the rich enjoy while they throw the common man under the bus...

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by garentee

I am talking more about the day to day stuff such as the laws that favor the big corporations, the subsidies that favor big corporations and the special privileges that the rich enjoy while they throw the common man under the bus...

The president can veto any new laws that come his way.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

The president can veto any new laws that come his way.

True enough.. the existing laws are a different story, the supreme court is an ENTIRELY different story.. Right now at every level of government there are corporate executives who regulate and legislate in order to line their pockets. This is not to mention the corporate lobbyists and special interest groups who are all tied in with the higher ups.. Follow the money...

Bottom line though is that the President is mostly a figure head..The system is broken and corrupt and serves the wealthy...

My question is what is Ron Paul doing for the people who are less fortunate? Is he for cutting social services? Against a safety net? I ask only because I could not figure that out from his official website.... There is a lot of things that resonate with me about Ron paul but i have some questions too... While I do believe in some of the libertarian beliefs, it is somewhat convenient that most libertarians do not have to worry about money so much...

[Spinoza]

Small hijack here, but has anyone noticed how the media is already advoiding using his name. He comes in second place in Iowa straw poll and I literally see the anouncer skip from first to third place when talking about how the candidates did. What the $@#! is that.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by garentee

True enough.. the existing laws are a different story, the supreme court is an ENTIRELY different story.. Right now at every level of government there are corporate executives who regulate and legislate in order to line their pockets. This is not to mention the corporate lobbyists and special interest groups who are all tied in with the higher ups.. Follow the money...

Bottom line though is that the President is mostly a figure head..The system is broken and corrupt and serves the wealthy...

My question is what is Ron Paul doing for the people who are less fortunate? Is he for cutting social services? Against a safety net? I ask only because I could not figure that out from his official website.... There is a lot of things that resonate with me about Ron paul but i have some questions too... While I do believe in some of the libertarian beliefs, it is somewhat convenient that most libertarians do not have to worry about money so much...

He believes that the governement controls people's lives too much while not doing their job. He feels that the government is here to serve the people. He wants the governement to stop spending hundreds of billions of dollars fighting in other countries and use that money to help Americans.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by garentee

True enough.. the existing laws are a different story, the supreme court is an ENTIRELY different story.. Right now at every level of government there are corporate executives who regulate and legislate in order to line their pockets. This is not to mention the corporate lobbyists and special interest groups who are all tied in with the higher ups.. Follow the money...

Bottom line though is that the President is mostly a figure head..The system is broken and corrupt and serves the wealthy...

My question is what is Ron Paul doing for the people who are less fortunate? Is he for cutting social services? Against a safety net? I ask only because I could not figure that out from his official website.... There is a lot of things that resonate with me about Ron paul but i have some questions too... While I do believe in some of the libertarian beliefs, it is somewhat convenient that most libertarians do not have to worry about money so much...

If you wish to change the existing laws the best bet is to put the best people in office. People who have a proven track record of honesty, integrity, and not being able to be bought. Start with the president and move down the line. One of the many reasons I will vote Ron Paul.

Ok the president may be mostly a figure head, but has the power to influence a lot, and change a lot. Would you rather have a "figure head" with a proven record of not selling out or someone who may be a little shady.

Ron Paul wants to give people the option to opt out of the broken system. He wants to allow people to keep their money that they earned. I disagree that libertarians tend to be wealthy. Most are like myself a hard working person just wanting the government to get out of my way and let me prosper.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by Spinoza

Small hijack here, but has anyone noticed how the media is already advoiding using his name. He comes in second place in Iowa straw poll and I literally see the anouncer skip from first to third place when talking about how the candidates did. What the $@#! is that.

Not to mention he wins roughly 90% of the polls he is in. He blew everyone away the other day on the fox poll after the debate. He had 40% of the vote 2nd was Romney with 22% of the vote. So what do they do, they take the poll down, and don't even mention it. The media is owned by elitist who do not want someone as president that can't be bought. Ron Paul has proven he can't be bought, he lives his principles. If you vote for the mainstream GOP or dems you get the same thing either way. A bunch of big spenders who will run this country into the ground. They just spend on different things. Vote libertarians, and independent minded people into office.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

If you wish to change the existing laws the best bet is to put the best people in office. People who have a proven track record of honesty, integrity, and not being able to be bought. Start with the president and move down the line. One of the many reasons I will vote Ron Paul.

Ok the president may be mostly a figure head, but has the power to influence a lot, and change a lot. Would you rather have a "figure head" with a proven record of not selling out or someone who may be a little shady.

Ron Paul wants to give people the option to opt out of the broken system. He wants to allow people to keep their money that they earned. I disagree that libertarians tend to be wealthy. Most are like myself a hard working person just wanting the government to get out of my way and let me prosper.

How is the government in your way and keeping you from prospering?

I disagree that the core of Libertarianism is not wealthy..Certainly there are many who are like yourself...The Pew Research center did a study albeit many years ago that found the larger majority of libertarians to be college educated and wealthy(not that theres anything wrong with that. The point is that a lot of the time the wealthy tend to look down upon those that are not as well off as they are.)
Section 4: The Recession, Economic Stress and Optimism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
.I am not necessarily disagreeing either with the libertarian view point..I am wary of the connections to the Tea party..Extremely...

You did not answer my question of what Ron Paul's policy would be toward the poor and having a safety net? This is one of the big disconnects that I have....

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by garentee

How is the government in your way and keeping you from prospering?

I disagree that the core of Libertarianism is not wealthy..Certainly there are many who are like yourself...The Pew Research center did a study albeit many years ago that found the larger majority of libertarians to be college educated and wealthy(not that theres anything wrong with that. The point is that a lot of the time the wealthy tend to look down upon those that are not as well off as they are.)
Section 4: The Recession, Economic Stress and Optimism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
.I am not necessarily disagreeing either with the libertarian view point..I am wary of the connections to the Tea party..Extremely...

You did not answer my question of what Ron Paul's policy would be toward the poor and having a safety net? This is one of the big disconnects that I have....

The government is in our way by creating so many regulations just to start a business. The government won't let me legally buy raw milk. The government takes money from a certain group of people to give to another. The government tries to force our kids into vaccinations we don't want. The government says we aren't allowed to grow a harmless plant for our personal enjoyment or as medicine. I buy property and pay it off, but ofcourse I never actually own my property I have to pay taxes on what is legally mine forever. I could go on, but you get my point. The government was never intended to tell us what we can or can't do with ourselves. I am also forced to pay into a system I see as harmful, and this lowers my prosperity.

Ron Paul believes we should help the poor help themselves. Quit giving people never ending handouts. We can't afford the entitlement system. You don't help someone by putting them on government assistance for life. You help someone by giving them a little aid, and teaching them to take care of themselves. After that you release them to do as they will. Give a man a fish you feed him once, teach a man to fish you feed him for life.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Ron Paul believes we should help the poor help themselves. Quit giving people never ending handouts. We can't afford the entitlement system. You don't help someone by putting them on government assistance for life. You help someone by giving them a little aid, and teaching them to take care of themselves. After that you release them to do as they will. Give a man a fish you feed him once, teach a man to fish you feed him for life.

How? Doesn't that cost money?

Frankly the powers that be want you to believe that the issue is that the poor are getting handouts... when actually.... The amount spent on welfare pales compared to the subsidies that most large corporations recieve.. in the light of record profits and exceedingly high executive pay... Don't believe it...
Try this on for size.....http://reason.com/archives/2011/03/2...porate-welfare

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by garentee

How? Doesn't that cost money?

Frankly the powers that be want you to believe that the issue is that the poor are getting handouts... when actually.... The amount spent on welfare pales compared to the subsidies that most large corporations recieve.. in the light of record profits and exceedingly high executive pay... Don't believe it...
Try this on for size.....End Corporate Welfare - Reason Magazine

Ron Paul wants to end corporate welfare. The article itself was written by John Stossel, which is a very big supporter of Ron Paul. Although the $125 billion that was spent on corporate welfare in 2010 is quite a bit. It is nothing compared to the $888 billion spent on social welfare. Social welfare is by far the biggest expense the federal government has. We aren't even talking about social security or medicare for seniors. That $888 billion is just straight up food stamps, housing assistance, etc. Defense was $871 billion which needs to be cut to the bone, but that didn't even catch social welfare. Also the defense budget includes veterans healthcare, and pensions, not to mention foreign aid. I am all for getting rid of corporate welfare, but most of social welfare and defense spending need to go as well to get this country where it needs to be.

To put this in perspective during the entire administration of George W. Bush, the Iraq war cost a total of $622 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service. This means in one year of social welfare we spent $260 billion more than the entire iraq war under Bush. $888 billion in 1 year is a bit much for handouts.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Ron Paul wants to end corporate welfare. The article itself was written by John Stossel, which is a very big supporter of Ron Paul. Although the $125 billion that was spent on corporate welfare in 2010 is quite a bit. It is nothing compared to the $888 billion spent on social welfare. Social welfare is by far the biggest expense the federal government has. We aren't even talking about social security or medicare for seniors. That $888 billion is just straight up food stamps, housing assistance, etc. Defense was $871 billion which needs to be cut to the bone, but that didn't even catch social welfare. Also the defense budget includes veterans healthcare, and pensions, not to mention foreign aid. I am all for getting rid of corporate welfare, but most of social welfare and defense spending need to go as well to get this country where it needs to be.

To put this in perspective during the entire administration of George W. Bush, the Iraq war cost a total of $622 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service. This means in one year of social welfare we spent $260 billion more than the entire iraq war under Bush. $888 billion in 1 year is a bit much for handouts.

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that the war in Iraq only cost $622 Billion....War is never that cheap..I am not disagreeing that there are costs that have to be cut.... I just happen to think that having a safety net for when times get tough like these is essential for keeping this a strong country. Definitely cutting military spending is good policy.

As for your earlier comment about Raw Milk etc.. That is not something that the president does.. That is up to the individual states. I know of at least two states that it is legal to sell it in stores.. the rub there is that there are not too many people doing it.(Mostly because the dairy industry is in the crapper).in fact, there is a raw milk dairy not too far from me who has really helped to make that much more of a reality just by working with in the system.

As for paying taxes on your property.. How do you propose a town pay its employees? or how do the roads be maintained? If it is all privitised what is to stop it being one big corporate mess? Getting rid of property taxes will not and in my opinion should not happen. Are they too high? certainly in some cases yes.. follow the money...You are a member of society and there are things we as a society do have to pay for... Corruption is not one of them I will agree, but to keep this country moving and your state and local municipalities moving it does take capital.. Of course I want to keep more of my own money and not have it being spent on things I do not agree with, but there are things that do need to be paid for by everyone. I am leery of privitization of all community services.. Do we have to pay for the road everytime we use it? What if our house burns down? do we pay for the fire department to come? and if we cannot pay then what? will we pay a fee to have our roads plowed in snowstorms? It does cost a LOT of money to do that...I am not saying in the least that the system is fine and to leave it alone, no. I am not sure that gutting the system and keeping the money out of our communities is a good idea.. I will freely admit that I do not know what should be done, I have not seen anything that is a saner approach to an extreemely complex system.
Free choice is a good thing especially in terms of personal health(Raw milk, vaccinations etc) and school choice(though many cannot afford to make that choice to send their kids to the school of their choice)...
In short while Ron Paul has some great ideas, I also think some are not so great and he will not be getting my vote..I am strongly considering not voting for the first time ever because no one seems to be saying anything that I agree with. Ron Paul is close, but not close enough. I would rest assured though if he does for some reason get in, that his presidency is not going to be anything at all like his campaign promises.. It never is.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by garentee

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that the war in Iraq only cost $622 Billion....War is never that cheap..I am not disagreeing that there are costs that have to be cut.... I just happen to think that having a safety net for when times get tough like these is essential for keeping this a strong country. Definitely cutting military spending is good policy.

As for your earlier comment about Raw Milk etc.. That is not something that the president does.. That is up to the individual states. I know of at least two states that it is legal to sell it in stores.. the rub there is that there are not too many people doing it.(Mostly because the dairy industry is in the crapper).in fact, there is a raw milk dairy not too far from me who has really helped to make that much more of a reality just by working with in the system.

As for paying taxes on your property.. How do you propose a town pay its employees? or how do the roads be maintained? If it is all privitised what is to stop it being one big corporate mess? Getting rid of property taxes will not and in my opinion should not happen. Are they too high? certainly in some cases yes.. follow the money...You are a member of society and there are things we as a society do have to pay for... Corruption is not one of them I will agree, but to keep this country moving and your state and local municipalities moving it does take capital.. Of course I want to keep more of my own money and not have it being spent on things I do not agree with, but there are things that do need to be paid for by everyone. I am leery of privitization of all community services.. Do we have to pay for the road everytime we use it? What if our house burns down? do we pay for the fire department to come? and if we cannot pay then what? will we pay a fee to have our roads plowed in snowstorms? It does cost a LOT of money to do that...I am not saying in the least that the system is fine and to leave it alone, no. I am not sure that gutting the system and keeping the money out of our communities is a good idea.. I will freely admit that I do not know what should be done, I have not seen anything that is a saner approach to an extreemely complex system.
Free choice is a good thing especially in terms of personal health(Raw milk, vaccinations etc) and school choice(though many cannot afford to make that choice to send their kids to the school of their choice)...
In short while Ron Paul has some great ideas, I also think some are not so great and he will not be getting my vote..I am strongly considering not voting for the first time ever because no one seems to be saying anything that I agree with. Ron Paul is close, but not close enough. I would rest assured though if he does for some reason get in, that his presidency is not going to be anything at all like his campaign promises.. It never is.

I just double checked the figures with in 6 different locations, and yes that $622 billion is correct. It seems like much more because the media has had a field day with it. Bush spent $795 billion on both Iraq and Afghanistan combined in his entire 8 years. Obama has spent $497 billion in his first 3 years. So both need a good kick in the ass.

It is actually federally illegal to transport raw milk across state lines. I have seen so many farmers get busted for this and lose their farms it isn't even funny. I know this has a lot to do with the states as well, but the FDA doesn't help. I'm not just sick of big brother, but also little sister the State.

As for paving our roads, fire, etc. Yes you would privatize a large portion of these services, but some would be just fine staying governmental. We would get rid of the current tax code, and replace it with a fair tax. Now you have the choice to keep all your money, but when you buy a car, or house, clothes, a tv, stereo, etc you will pay an extra tax that will fund our governmental services. Food and utilities would not be taxed under the fair tax. Let us say you buy a $200,000 house. You pay a 10% fair tax which is 20k, so you have essentially paid property taxes up front, which fund the government. Now you don't have to worry about a tax bill each year, and if you become poor one day no worries of the government taking your property.

The reason nobody has kept their promises once they get into office is because we always elect lying lawyers to office. You can see changing of principles before they even thought of becoming president. They say what the people want to hear so they can get elected. Ron Paul doesn't do this. The man has been saying the exact same things for decades. He has never faultered. That is why the media doesn't like him, because he can't be bought. He isn't scared to be booed like the others, because he sticks to his principles. I will be voting Ron Paul 2012, even if I have to write his name in.