Went jogging for the 2nd time - ankles and knees hurting!

[lucidbrotha]

Two days ago I went jogging. It was great.

But today I went again. I couldn't do it. My knees and ankles started hurting too much after a short while, and I had to walk the rest of the way instead of jog.

Why was this? Is this something to worry about? Should I just let my feet heal over the weekend and try again on Monday?

I am using Nike "Max Air" shoes. They're a bit old, but I don't see anything wrong with them. Nike are supposed to be good for running, right?

Any tips would be appreciated.

[rawxstasy]

I think you should do a search for "From the Couch to 5K" It gives instructions for beginner joggers to learn to jog without injury.

I don't know about the shoes. I'm just starting jogging myself.

[Hapiel]

Hi lucidbrotha,

Obviously this all depends on your physical status, weight, how much you are running..

What are you used to? When is the last time you used your knees and ankles in sports and how much are you running right now?

Most obvious tips are of course: Before you start running, you should always warm up a bit by doing a brisk walk of 5 minutes. Now next time you are going to add twisting and turning around your ankles and knees. Just lift one foot, spin it around for a few seconds, then the other way around. Then do the same with your whole lower leg, and then do it with your other foot and leg!

Make sure your running schedule is not too steep, start off easy with lots of walking and some running inbetween and build up slowly.

If you are not obviously undertrained and warming up properly does not help, you might want to see a physiotherapist or doctor.

[lucidbrotha]

Thanks for the comments so far. Further information:

I'm 28. I'm not overweight, but I have accumulated a belly in the past year that I'm attempting to get rid of. This is the first time in many years that I'm jogging for real. On Wednesday I did a nice and refreshing jogging/walking combination for about 2.5 miles. I was going to do the same thing today, but as I said, I couldn't, and was forced to do only walking.

I guess i just did too much. Maybe I should relax over the weekend and just stretch my legs, and try again on Monday by doing what Hapiel suggested: a walking/jogging combination with perhaps more walking than earlier in order not to strain myself too much. What do you think?

[Hapiel]

My favorite starting schedule (as I am often a starter, I run for half a year and then quit for half a year because of the weather, but always end up starting again )
is this one:
How to Begin Running - wikiHow
On the bottom of the page. Just take a stopwatch (I use my cell-phone) with you, make sure you run and walk the correct times, and you will be running all the time in no time!

[Clint Cora]

Try to get on a softer surface as well - running track, grass, etc. It will be a bit easier on your joints compared to pavement until you build it up. Watch the technique too so you roll from back to front of your foot rather than pound it on the ground each time.

[C Brown]

I'd recommend either getting a new pair of shoes or not wearing them at all. The foam in shoes does not stay lofty and cushiony very long. I know the cushion in my shoes generally last about 9 months. That doesn't mean they are trash, they are just past the point of being comfortable to run in on pavement.

Clint had a good recomendation to run on grass or a rubber track. Asphalt and concrete are very hard on you joints.

I'd would also say that you overdid it your first time. Personally, I only run for about 20-25 minutes at a time. I do time myself over the same distance each run and try and shorten my time each new run. I also run in the deep forest on the dirt, which is a much different experience than running on the street and more healthy on my joints.

You should look into barefoot running, its a quite interesting subject. Its especially beneficial for people who prone to shin splints and back or leg pain as a result of their running. The idea is quite the opposite of what you would think, but you running posture changes completely when you do it barefoot and that is what stops the pains.

[Benton]

As a new runner, you might look into Vibram FiveFingers. They take some getting used to, but they force you to strike on the ball of your foot as opposed to the heel like shoes with padding do. They also force you to develop the support muscles in your feet which helps minimize injuries.

[janicelou]

your going to fast. start by walking... improve slowly...

if you experience pain .. STOP! do not work out when you experience pain..

That theory of "no pain, no gain" is not conducive to your long term health or success with your workout plan.

[KBaYogi]

Originally Posted by janicelou

your going to fast. start by walking... improve slowly...

if you experience pain .. STOP! do not work out when you experience pain..

That theory of "no pain, no gain" is not conducive to your long term health or success with your workout plan.

The theory is a sound one, actually. It just doesn't mention, not all pain is good pain. Some types of pain, does mean stop.

[lucidbrotha]

Thanks for the replies. However, one question remains: Are humans incapable of getting used to, or adapting to, running on concrete?

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by lucidbrotha

Thanks for the replies. However, one question remains: Are humans incapable of getting used to, or adapting to, running on concrete?

Humans are quite capable of getting used to it. Especially if they wear Nike Max Air.

However, there are some general guidelines. About not increasing mileage too quickly. You have to build up over time, allowing bones and joints to adapt.

Weight-bearing / impact exercises actually encourage your bones to grow (as opposed to, say, swimming. But too much, too soon, and your joints will get injured. Knees, most commonly, for the concrete runners.

[BillyTheAdult]

Not that anyone here is an expert and you should so whatever feels best for you and not what someone else says. That being said I recently decided to step up my fitness game which included starting running. I would also recommend the couch to 5k or something similar where you work into it. I think you should have newer shoes that are in good shape as there is no real cushioning left in older shoes. I would say to get Asics, Brooks, or Mizuno. Brands like Nike, Reebok, etc. are more about looking cool than actually being good running shoes, you can't even tell what type of shoe they are (stability, motion control, cushioning.) Go to a running specialty store and have them look at your feet and tell you what type you need. Also I've done a fair amount of research and tried on several types of each and found there to be no conclusive evidence the any no cushion, or zero drop shoes have any benefit that other shoes don't, and no evidence that they correct your stride or posture, some. Just as many who claim they are worse for you as better. If your having problems with your knees and ankles and I would go for a more traditional style shoe.

Also if you're trying to lose a belly, changing your diet will likely help more than exercise alone.

[dogstar]

I trained for a tri a few years ago and had never run before. I had purchased brand new Asics Gel running shoes for the training. Within a few days of starting the Couch to 5K program, I had pretty extreme pain in one of my knees. It was recommended on a running website to go to a running store and get my stride videotaped. I was totally pronating on the foot that had the knee pain. They had me try on a ton of different shoes until we found a pair that kept me from pronating on that foot. Go figure it was just a different model of Asics Gel. But viola! No more pain. The shoes almost immediately solved the problem.

Good luck!

[Cantando]

Saw an interesting program the other night about some UK university research into the best way to run. Apparently, humans are designed to run barefoot with the balls of the feet hitting the ground first, not the heels. If your heels hit first, the stress goes to your knees and up through your spine and can cause problems.

If you hit with the balls first, the stress goes through your calf muscles which act as shock absorbers. The program showed a guy who had chronic knee pain after running for years.

Once he adapted his style to landing on the balls of his feet, the pain went away.

And, you don't need to buy expensive running shoes.

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by Cantando

Saw an interesting program the other night about some UK university research into the best way to run. Apparently, humans are designed to run barefoot with the balls of the feet hitting the ground first, not the heels. If your heels hit first, the stress goes to your knees and up through your spine and can cause problems.

If you hit with the balls first, the stress goes through your calf muscles which act as shock absorbers. The program showed a guy who had chronic knee pain after running for years.

Once he adapted his style to landing on the balls of his feet, the pain went away.

And, you don't need to buy expensive running shoes.

I for one would certainly not want to be stepping on something that would injure my barefoot especially if I don't see it while running.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

I for one would certainly not want to be stepping on something that would injure my barefoot especially if I don't see it while running.

That's why you get "shoes" that protect your feet, but allow you to essentially run barefoot.

Running with shoes, is what ruins your knees. The body knows how to run. Put shoes on the feet, and all of a sudden, it doesn't understand what's going on.

[Benton]

Originally Posted by Cantando

humans are designed to run barefoot with the balls of the feet hitting the ground first, not the heels. If your heels hit first, the stress goes to your knees and up through your spine and can cause problems.

If you hit with the balls first, the stress goes through your calf muscles which act as shock absorbers. The program showed a guy who had chronic knee pain after running for years.

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

I for one would certainly not want to be stepping on something that would injure my barefoot especially if I don't see it while running.

VFFs (which I recommended up-thread a ways) actually fix both of these problems. It's the strangest thing, your body actually forces you to run on the balls of your feet when you have no heel padding. What's even cooler is that when you run this way you can feel the rebound and spring caused by your calves and tendons running down your foot. It's a much, much more efficient way to run. As a non-runner, I'm amazed.

As for foot damage, the VFF Komodosports have a fairly thick sole (about 7mm) so there's very little, with the exception of a nail or huge thorn, that is going to cause problems, and those would cause you problems in a normal shoe too.

[Cantando]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

I for one would certainly not want to be stepping on something that would injure my barefoot especially if I don't see it while running.

I wasn't suggesting you run barefoot.

[ABdude]

From someone that has went from Homer Simpson-style running to running 10-15k km 3 times a week, (and back again but I'm working on that part), the best piece of advice I can give is to get fitted at a running store. Before I had bought a pair of generic runners which gave me blisters and made my ankles a bit sore because I didn't have the correct support. After I took those back and went to a professional runner's store, I bought a pair that were a bit more expensive, but were the most comfortable shoe I have ever had. Since then I have had no more blisters or ankle problem.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about the stretching before and after as well.

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by Benton

VFFs (which I recommended up-thread a ways) actually fix both of these problems. It's the strangest thing, your body actually forces you to run on the balls of your feet when you have no heel padding. What's even cooler is that when you run this way you can feel the rebound and spring caused by your calves and tendons running down your foot. It's a much, much more efficient way to run. As a non-runner, I'm amazed.

As for foot damage, the VFF Komodosports have a fairly thick sole (about 7mm) so there's very little, with the exception of a nail or huge thorn, that is going to cause problems, and those would cause you problems in a normal shoe too.

I was actually thinking about little pieces of glass that can't be seen when moving quickly. I see these all the time when I'm out there.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by ABdude

From someone that has went from Homer Simpson-style running to running 10-15k km 3 times a week, (and back again but I'm working on that part), the best piece of advice I can give is to get fitted at a running store. Before I had bought a pair of generic runners which gave me blisters and made my ankles a bit sore because I didn't have the correct support. After I took those back and went to a professional runner's store, I bought a pair that were a bit more expensive, but were the most comfortable shoe I have ever had. Since then I have had no more blisters or ankle problem.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about the stretching before and after as well.

I did nothing but hurt myself, stretching before. You are pulling cold muscles. That's never good for anything. You stretch after running, or warm up, THEN stretch.

[Benton]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

I was actually thinking about little pieces of glass that can't be seen when moving quickly. I see these all the time when I'm out there.

I don't know about that. I suppose it could be an issue, but the same could be said for any minimalist shoe. I have to think that the Komodosports have a sole that's tough enough not to be cut through by a piece of glass.

I guess I'm lucky to live out in the country where if I want to go hiking or even (FSM forbid) running I've got lots of state parks around me to do so.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Benton

I don't know about that. I suppose it could be an issue, but the same could be said for any minimalist shoe. I have to think that the Komodosports have a sole that's tough enough not to be cut through by a piece of glass.

I guess I'm lucky to live out in the country where if I want to go hiking or even (FSM forbid) running I've got lots of state parks around me to do so.

So many different models. I'm having a hard time deciding which ones to get.

[TonyRovere]

Originally Posted by lucidbrotha

Two days ago I went jogging. It was great.

But today I went again. I couldn't do it. My knees and ankles started hurting too much after a short while, and I had to walk the rest of the way instead of jog.

Why was this? Is this something to worry about? Should I just let my feet heal over the weekend and try again on Monday?

I am using Nike "Max Air" shoes. They're a bit old, but I don't see anything wrong with them. Nike are supposed to be good for running, right?

Any tips would be appreciated.

I don't know your health status, but I am 40 and only jog once a week...if I go more than that I begin to experience the same symptoms that you described.

As a substitute, I would recommend using a treadmill and setting the incline for between 10-15 degrees.

The advantage is that this is a far more difficult cardio workout than a standard walk and yet is a low impact workout so you do not experience the symptoms that you just described.

I hope this helps. Best of luck to you.

[Fred Tracy]

I would just go easy on yourself. Give yourself some time to get used to it will heal. And as someone else said, it's not a good idea to stretch before jogging. Always stretch after.

I have the same kind of problems when I jog too much. Just take it easy and you'll be fine. Either that, or invest in an elliptical.

[crismacrobert]

I think you have started to jog very long in first day. Always beginners have to start with few meters or maximum 2 KM. not more then it for 3-4 days.If you get any injury in those days you reduce or increase to jog a step by step like 2nd week you jog for 3-4 KM.Definitely it will work.

[invisiblehouses]

Hey, me too!

Being already overweight and not used to aerobic exercise (though I have been lifting some weights and going mostly-slow-carb for over two months and losing weight steadily), I knew I had to start out super-slow, but even then I was experiencing some aches in the foot-bone region. I'm glad I saw that "From Couch to 5K" thing today...looking at their times for running a quarter-mile, I now know I was running too fast to start out.

I've also got gout, which makes me especially precious about trauma to my feet. I've got a decent treadmill in the basement and a rubber running track just down the street, so I should be all set for surfaces that don't thrash one's hooves.

One of the area Chambers of Commerce has a Halloween-themed 5K every October. My goal is to participate in next year's (not enough time to build up for the 2011 event). My other goal is to do this goofy event in 2012.

[BillyTheAdult]

I'm sorry but I just have trouble believing that the whole barefoot thing is more than just a fad with some convincing propaganda. People who say the moon landing was fake have come up with some great evidence too. Read the pages about barefoot running in four hour body. I don't necessarily believe it's all that bad, just not superior either.

[Perspective]

Hi Lucidbrotha,
I had a similar issue a couple of weeks ago, as I was training to run a race.
My knee was killing me! Even when I wasn't standing on it. I had pushed myself too fast in running every day twice or more times a day, when I wasn't used to it.

So... here's what helped (& btw, I healed, & I beat the time with time to spare!)
-Iced my knee & took it easy for a bit (swam, walked etc.)
-Knee massages (check youtube clips)
-Knee muscle exercises (yoga - stand straight, touch your toes, then, keeping your knees above your feet, bend like you're going to sit & repeat)
-Work on your quadrasceps (leg lifts) & glutes (but muscles) - these actually can help take some strain off your knees
-Better ("Running") shoes, & with not too many miles on them
-Stretch lightly after a warm up & before running, & deeply after running