Kids Eating Meat or Being Vegetarian

[ginkgo]

There are lots of discussions about the healthfulness and ethics of eating meat and being vegetarian. But I am asking about this from the point of view of honesty and children. I feel that it is best to tell children the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Some parents may feel that it is good for children to lie to them about the above.

I got this idea from the post about Mark Zuckerberg personal killing the animals that he eats to be more aware of where his food comes from. I would especially like to hear from you if you eat meat and have children that eat meat.

Say that there were a school trip to a farm where children (that are around the age of ten) would be brought to a farm and encouraged to pick fruit like apples and eat them and also eat vegetables by killing the plant like by pulling carrots out of the ground. Would you give permission for your child to go?

Please note that when I was around that age I knew how to recognize the wild carrot plant. I would show off to my friends by seeing one in the woods and pulling it out of the ground and eating it.

The other part of the question is what if there were a school trip to a slaughter house where children would watch and be encouraged to kill a chicken, pig, goat or cow and then they would be cooked for the children to eat them. Would you give permission for them to go?

I know that in the American society the first one would be considered a good idea and the second one would be a bad or disgusting idea. I hear that some people have pigs as pets. I hear that in some countries they eat dogs. Do you consider eating dogs worse than eating pigs? I know a woman who had a duck as a pet when she was a child. Some people eat ducks.

Some people feel that it is OK to eat ducks but not their swollen livers. Wiki says:

Foie gras ( /fwɑːˈɡrɑː/; French for "fat liver") is a food product made of the liver of a duck or goose that has been specially fattened. This fattening is typically achieved through gavage (force-feeding) corn, according to French law,[1] though outside of France it is occasionally produced using natural feeding. Pâté de foie gras was formerly known as "Strasbourg pie" in English due to that city being a major producer of this food product.

Gavage-based foie gras production is controversial, due to the force feeding procedure, and the possible health consequences of an enlarged liver.[citation needed]

A number of countries and other jurisdictions have laws against force feeding or the sale of foie gras due to how it is traditionally produced. In modern gavage-based foie gras production, force feeding takes place 12−18 days before slaughter. The duck or goose is typically fed a controlled amount of corn mash through a tube inserted in the animal's cuticle-lined esophagus.

[beast]

My parents raised me and my siblings as strict vegetarians (I was almost completely vegan - I might have had about one egg per month, and absolutely no dairy at all).

My siblings and I are all healthy, all still vegetarian. After about 15 years eating strictly vegetarian, my parents have both reverted back to eating meat - they feel that eating meat is more delicious and more healthy (and, at times, perhaps even more ethical) than eating vegetarian. They regret their decision to raise us vegetarian.

I sort of regret it, too. I think it should be a choice, and I didn't really get the choice. Sure, I could, technically, start eating meat, but I was told from the time I could speak that meat is filthy, gross, unhealthy, immoral (yeah, my parents were a bit militant ) I could no more start eating meat now than someone else could just decide to eat humans. My disgust towards meat runs that deep, even if I logically know it must be delicious and even if I know that it can be quite healthy. I want to live in Greenland or Mongolia someday, but it's pretty much out of the question for me, too. (Just an interesting side - some people get really disgusted when cannibalism is brought up. Personally, I'm equally repulsed by the idea of eating human flesh and the idea of eating cow flesh, that's how deeply I was indoctrinated.)

So yes, I will raise my kids eating a small amount of very good quality, local meat. If they decide at a later point that they want to become vegetarians - great! I won't have to make two separate meals that way!

[votoshka]

I like the idea of kids knowing where their food comes from. I actually think it's a good idea for kids to see how animals are slaughtered for food. Then, at least, they can make a conscious decision about eating meat rather than just seeing it as "food" and not as something that was once a living creature.

[learnllovelaugh]

It would be great if children were shown that meat does not need to be a primary part of their diet, if it is included at all. I wish our society didn't lead us to believe that it's natural for humans to eat a lot of meat, especially considering how most of it is produced.

I'd say children should know about the horrific process they are supporting by consuming most kinds of meat, as well as the adverse effects it has on their health and ecosystem. It doesn't seem beneficial to hide it from them.

[Weena]

I don't want to impose a diet on my children. I just don't cook meat but if we're out or having take-away curries, I have no problem with my son eating butter chicken or feasting on a sausage (shrug). At home he's more likely to have vegetarian protein, eggs or fish. And he loves cow's milk.

Would I allow him to see animals slaughtered? I'm unsure, it depends on his age. Certainly not now, he's too young. He accidentally saw a show where a sea lion shredded a penguin to pieces for a few seconds and he went "poor little pingu" for ages, so I definitely do not want him to see any of that at his age (3 y.o).

I'd say ten years old and over, probably I'd be okay with it, but since I don't cook meat at home I see no real reason to guilt trip him.

[Excellent Lodestar]

Honesty and children?

"See, you just can't live without it being at the expense of other beings."
That thread should have ended with Pyrogen's quote, then and there.

Talk about Santa Clause... how about raising kids with the truth about the cycle of life and death? For you to live, something must die--Yes even if you eat..Gasp! Vegetarian!
The New Beginning: Lierre Keith interview

Lierre Keith needs to write "The Vegetarian Myth for Dummies" because no one seems to get it( though they're pretty good at attacking her)

[kevinpd]

I have 3 children age,s 6,5 and 3.
I am Veggie and I am bringing them up to be veggie until they are at an age when they understand what meat is, what has to be done to kill it and where meat come,s from.
When they understand it,s not just a product on a supermarket shelf then they can eat meat. It will be there choice.
I believe my older son is approching this point soon as he approches 7 years old.

[openeyes]

I could be okay having vegetarian kids, but maybe not vegan. As long as they're having eggs most days and milk if they like it, along with lots of green veggies, I'd be comfortable that they're getting most of the nutrients they need.

I wouldn't intentionally keep them from eating meat, but my fiancee personally never liked the taste of most of it, so our kids might not either. I would like to try hunting some time, and would be open to taking any kids I ultimately have along for the experience .

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

I have 3 children age,s 6,5 and 3.
I am Veggie and I am bringing them up to be veggie until they are at an age when they understand what meat is, what has to be done to kill it and where meat come,s from.
When they understand it,s not just a product on a supermarket shelf then they can eat meat. It will be there choice.
I believe my older son is approching this point soon as he approches 7 years old.

You really think it will be their choice, living with a veggie mom, and being raised veggie? It's not as easy as you think to just change the way you've been raised, and go in another direction. Especially when that other direction is looked down upon by their care givers. There is more to meat then a product on a supermarket shelf. Why don't you take them to a small family run farm, if you want them to actually know?

[kevinpd]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

You really think it will be their choice, living with a veggie mom, and being raised veggie? It's not as easy as you think to just change the way you've been raised, and go in another direction. Especially when that other direction is looked down upon by their care givers. There is more to meat then a product on a supermarket shelf. Why don't you take them to a small family run farm, if you want them to actually know?

Yes I know so!
They will have freedom to choose and they wont be looked down on at all.
Yes, there is more to meat than a product on a supermarket shelf, hence my original comment and as part of there learning about life they will be going to a local farm. Unlike most children who think a burger is made in a factory then find out what it really is!

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

Unlike most children who think a burger is made in a factory

Maybe it will be soon enough: Test Tube Meat Grown in the Lab : Discovery News

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

Yes I know so!
They will have freedom to choose and they wont be looked down on at all.
Yes, there is more to meat than a product on a supermarket shelf, hence my original comment and as part of there learning about life they will be going to a local farm. Unlike most children who think a burger is made in a factory then find out what it really is!

I dont think you understand how influential a parents sub concious thoughts are on their kids. I don't care how much you think they'll have freedom to choose, you've already chosen for them. There are some examples of these types of kids on this forum, who see meat akin to canabilsm and couldn't eat it if they tried. It is VERY hard to go against what you've been raised. all I'm saying, is don't pretend like it's going to be super easy for them to choose the opposite of something they've been raised to believe is the "right" way.

[kevinpd]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I dont think you understand how influential a parents sub concious thoughts are on their kids. I don't care how much you think they'll have freedom to choose, you've already chosen for them. There are some examples of these types of kids on this forum, who see meat akin to canabilsm and couldn't eat it if they tried. It is VERY hard to go against what you've been raised. all I'm saying, is don't pretend like it's going to be super easy for them to choose the opposite of something they've been raised to believe is the "right" way.

Have I not choosen for them if I let them eat meat before they understand what it is?
and I do understand how influential parent,s sub concious thought,s are. I was a child myself once! I was given choices by my father, but not by my Mother.
I know which I prefer!
People seem to think it,s only a choice Not to eat meat when that,s wrong.
It make,s believe the veggie is doing something abnormal!
I do care and I know the will have freedom of choice! They have that now, unlike kids that have been force fed meat from there first solids!

Veggie,s have a right to make a choice, we are not abnormal in not eating meat but that is the way society tries to make people think!

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

Have I not choosen for them if I let them eat meat before they understand what it is?
and I do understand how influential parent,s sub concious thought,s are. I was a child myself once! I was given choices by my father, but not by my Mother.
I know which I prefer!
People seem to think it,s only a choice Not to eat meat when that,s wrong.
It make,s believe the veggie is doing something abnormal!
I do care and I know the will have freedom of choice! They have that now, unlike kids that have been force fed meat from there first solids!

Veggie,s have a right to make a choice, we are not abnormal in not eating meat but that is the way society tries to make people think!

Are you presenting them RIGHT NOW with a choice of meat? Is there meat in their fridge? Do you explain that meat is edible and not wrong to do so?

It is a choice not to eat meat, when the majority of the world is, and has always been eating animal products. I personally feel that people were born to eat meat, so they should be introduced to all choices of food. But I understand that's only my personal thoughts and nothing more. It doesn't have to be burgers from the store. It doesn't have to be over processed chicken nuggets. If you are doing it from ethics or health, that's fine. But, do not pretend it's a choice you are giving your kids. I can see it in your writing. I can see it in your "!!!'s" of your mind creating a view of being accused of abnormality or oddness. Kids aren't force fed meats. I was force fed veggies tho. I enjoyed meat from as young as I can remember.

[kevinpd]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Are you presenting them RIGHT NOW with a choice of meat? Is there meat in their fridge? Do you explain that meat is edible and not wrong to do so?

It is a choice not to eat meat, when the majority of the world is, and has always been eating animal products. I personally feel that people were born to eat meat, so they should be introduced to all choices of food. But I understand that's only my personal thoughts and nothing more. It doesn't have to be burgers from the store. It doesn't have to be over processed chicken nuggets. If you are doing it from ethics or health, that's fine. But, do not pretend it's a choice you are giving your kids. I can see it in your writing. I can see it in your "!!!'s" of your mind creating a view of being accused of abnormality or oddness. Kids aren't force fed meats. I was force fed veggies tho. I enjoyed meat from as young as I can remember.

Well I dont pretend I know, I am giving them an informed choice!
I believe I have made my case now.
If you where force fed veggies then maybe you never had the choice that my children will.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by beast

My parents raised me and my siblings as strict vegetarians (I was almost completely vegan - I might have had about one egg per month, and absolutely no dairy at all).

My siblings and I are all healthy, all still vegetarian. After about 15 years eating strictly vegetarian, my parents have both reverted back to eating meat - they feel that eating meat is more delicious and more healthy (and, at times, perhaps even more ethical) than eating vegetarian. They regret their decision to raise us vegetarian.

I sort of regret it, too. I think it should be a choice, and I didn't really get the choice. Sure, I could, technically, start eating meat, but I was told from the time I could speak that meat is filthy, gross, unhealthy, immoral (yeah, my parents were a bit militant ) I could no more start eating meat now than someone else could just decide to eat humans. My disgust towards meat runs that deep, even if I logically know it must be delicious and even if I know that it can be quite healthy.

This is interesting, and I guess it shows that maybe parents could raise kids to eat veggie without telling them meat is filthy, gross, unhealthy and immoral . . . but instead telling the kids about where meat comes from so that they make a true connection. I imagine as a kid I knew where meat came from, but it didn't seem to matter to me until I got to be about 10 or so.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

Well I dont pretend I know, I am giving them an informed choice!
I believe I have made my case now.
If you where force fed veggies then maybe you never had the choice that my children will.

I did have a choice. They gave me everything that there was to eat. I CHOSE to eat meat, and I CHOSE to not eat veggies. But, they gave me all options. And I even got to see my food killed before my eyes, so it wasn't out of ignorance that I ate meat. But, let me tell you. My parents views that veggies were super healthy and needed to be eaten, has still stuck with me to this day. That was the view they forced on me, whether consciously or not. That's a view actually forced on every child. " eat your veggies, it's good for you". " spinach will make you stronger!" " You aren't leaving this table till your broccoli is finished" " eat your meat, or you won't be healthy".

Well, that last one is rarely spoken, because kids don't fight eating meat. I mean, that is if they are given that choice. And not because they are weaned on it from their first solid food.

And don't misunderstand me. You can feed them veggies if you'd like. I have no problem with that. I, just don't like people pretending that something is, when it isn't, and that's you giving them a choice.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Well, that last one is rarely spoken, because kids don't fight eating meat. I mean, that is if they are given that choice.

As a little kid, there were three foods I fought eating. Peanut butter, liver and something my parents called "hamburger steak." So you don't speak for all kids!

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

As a little kid, there were three foods I fought eating. Peanut butter, liver and something my parents called "hamburger steak." So you don't speak for all kids!

That's certain kinds of meat : D I'm just referring to meat in general. No one liked liver as little kids. lol probably because parents told us it was good for us. Any food of weird consistency, and kids will not like it just for that. But, that's cause kids are spoiled these days. In Russia, for me, it was either eat what was put on the table, or starve. Thankfully, lettuce didn't have many calories, so I didn't starve from not eating salad.

[beast]

I do know some kids who were raised vegetarian and began eating meat later in life - but none who were raised strictly vegetarian. I just think it's too hard to do - meat is not something I consider food, any more than human flesh or grubs. I think it's absurd when people tell me "just start eating meat, just take a bite!" So if you really do want to leave the option open for your children (and perhaps you don't) then I think it might be a good idea to at least allow them occasional fresh fish, venison, whatever it is that you feel comfortable giving them.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by beast

I do know some kids who were raised vegetarian and began eating meat later in life - but none who were raised strictly vegetarian. I just think it's too hard to do - meat is not something I consider food, any more than human flesh or grubs. I think it's absurd when people tell me "just start eating meat, just take a bite!" So if you really do want to leave the option open for your children (and perhaps you don't) then I think it might be a good idea to at least allow them occasional fresh fish, venison, whatever it is that you feel comfortable giving them.

this would be that example I was talking about, of a kid raised strictly vegetarian. Thanks for coming in here beast : D


oh and... what's wrong with grubs? They are scrumpdiliumptious

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

Yes I know so!
They will have freedom to choose and they wont be looked down on at all.
Yes, there is more to meat than a product on a supermarket shelf, hence my original comment and as part of there learning about life they will be going to a local farm. Unlike most children who think a burger is made in a factory then find out what it really is!

this would be that example I was talking about, of a kid raised strictly vegetarian.

so to raise my point again, you can't raise a kid strictly not eating meat, and pretend like you are giving them a choice.

Originally Posted by beast

I do know some kids who were raised vegetarian and began eating meat later in life - but none who were raised strictly vegetarian. I just think it's too hard to do - meat is not something I consider food, any more than human flesh or grubs. I think it's absurd when people tell me "just start eating meat, just take a bite!" So if you really do want to leave the option open for your children (and perhaps you don't) then I think it might be a good idea to at least allow them occasional fresh fish, venison, whatever it is that you feel comfortable giving them.

Thanks for coming in here beast : D


oh and... what's wrong with grubs? They are scrumpdiliumptious

[beast]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Thanks for coming in here beast : D


oh and... what's wrong with grubs? They are scrumpdiliumptious

Seems nobody read the very first response in this thread

Nothing is wrong with grubs, really! Nothing is wrong with beef, either, but I know many people who would be repulsed by the idea of eating grubs. I'd for sure try a grub before trying a bite of hamburger, but I doubt I'll ever have to make that choice.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by beast

Seems nobody read the very first response in this thread

Nothing is wrong with grubs, really! Nothing is wrong with beef, either, but I know many people who would be repulsed by the idea of eating grubs. I'd for sure try a grub before trying a bite of hamburger, but I doubt I'll ever have to make that choice.

I remembered you posting it lol but forgot it was in this thread

[learnllovelaugh]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Why don't you take them to a small family run farm, if you want them to actually know?

Almost no meat comes from farms like this anymore. Certainly not the meat in the chicken nuggets that are offered to children in school.

Originally Posted by russianrocket

...kids don't fight eating meat. I mean, that is if they are given that choice. And not because they are weaned on it from their first solid food.

Kids don't fight eating meat when it is offered to them cooked with spices and sauces to hide it's true flavor. Do you think a child would eat a raw piece of meat over a raw piece of fruit? Do you think a child would choose to kill an animal for that meat over picking that fruit from a tree?

The food available to us today is very deceptive and children are the most susceptible to making bad choices. Letting children follow their taste buds these days will probably lead them to diabetes and other health problems.

[Rachelle]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

That's a view actually forced on every child. " eat your veggies, it's good for you". " spinach will make you stronger!" " You aren't leaving this table till your broccoli is finished" " eat your meat, or you won't be healthy".

Well, that last one is rarely spoken, because kids don't fight eating meat. I mean, that is if they are given that choice. And not because they are weaned on it from their first solid food.

And don't misunderstand me. You can feed them veggies if you'd like. I have no problem with that. I, just don't like people pretending that something is, when it isn't, and that's you giving them a choice.

Actually, when I was fairly little, maybe around 5 or so, I remember not wanting to eat meat and being "forced" to do so. I remember it quite vividly, even though I was pretty young. It was a Sunday family dinner and there were spare ribs. I did not want to eat them. I didn't like the way they looked, smelled, and the idea of animal bones was kinda gross.

It was my natural choice not to eat this meat, but I was pretty much forced to... the whole family was just staring at me and waiting until I finally took a bite.

I remember something similar when there was deer meat one time, and I was older (but still a kid). I did NOT like the idea of eating dear meat, but kept getting bugged and harassed by family to try it.

So, yeah... forcing meat on your kid DOES happen sometimes.

* * *

As for the original topic of this post, I think age 10 is definitely a good age, and both options sound good to me.

[Betheney]

Originally Posted by kevinpd

I have 3 children age,s 6,5 and 3.
I am Veggie and I am bringing them up to be veggie until they are at an age when they understand what meat is, what has to be done to kill it and where meat come,s from.
When they understand it,s not just a product on a supermarket shelf then they can eat meat. It will be there choice.
I believe my older son is approching this point soon as he approches 7 years old.

I'm really glad i read your post, i currently have a 8mo baby and being vegetarian myself have been brainstorming about the whole raising a child as a vegetarian discussion. At the moment i do give her very small amounts of meat, mostly because she is my first baby and i'm terrified of being yelled at for not giving her meat and secondly because i do not have the knowledge to defend myself on not giving her meat and it's just the norm to feed them meat and being my first baby i don't want to do anything thats not recommended. I've decided to do the same as you though and give her the OPTION and to make her own informed decision about becoming vegetarian except you are raising them vegetarians until they choose i'm raising her as a meat eater until she can choose.

Anyway i've rambled on a bit here, but i've been incredibly curious as to when the age will be so 7 years old you say? my sister is 4 and she's so with it i thought it would happen then. I know i have a long time to decided about it but i've just been thinking about it alot lately.

I'm also quite sure it will be a fair choice as her father (my husband) eats meat, so she will be given then facts and be able to eat like mummy and save the animals or eat like daddy

[Margarita888]

Originally Posted by Betheney

At the moment i do give her very small amounts of meat, mostly because she is my first baby and i'm terrified of being yelled at for not giving her meat and secondly because i do not have the knowledge to defend myself on not giving her meat and it's just the norm to feed them meat and being my first baby i don't want to do anything thats not recommended.

Who's going to yell at you? And who's recommendation is it to feed your child meat?

[Margarita888]

I have 3 kids ages 7, 5 & 2. The first one does not like eating meat at all. Well, mostly except for chicken nuggets. But I think that's only because I fed him that when he was about a year old at the recommendation of his pediatrician because he thought he wasn't gaining enough weight. I'm sure if I knew better back then, I would've given him something else other than chicken nuggets & mac/cheese to gain weight. But other than that, he would not touch any meat, seafood or egg, no matter if everyone around him was eating it. He has been to several birthday parties where he would come home not eating anything except cake because they served hot dogs & pepperoni pizzas. He definitely convinced me that children are naturally vegetarians.

Now as for my 2 other children, they tend to follow what the adults eat. Because my husband eats meat when we're not at home, they are exposed to it and tend to try what he eats. If it were up to me, I'd prefer to raise them as vegans/vegetarians. They do excellent with the vegan meals I fix them and they do not think anything of having broccoli or asparagus comprising 50% of their plate & more veggies &/or brown rice as the rest. But when we're at family gatherings where there's a neverending supply of e.coli-infested burgers w/ fake cheese and other kids & adults that look like they're enjoying eating it, they will naturally want to eat it too. I cringe everytime they eat it too but don't want to look like the crazy lady in the family gathering.

I'm not very militant about them eating meat, only because I don't have an explanation on why my husband eats it and I don't. I mean, I do, but it will probably be a more complicated answer than what they might be able to comprehend. If we're at a restaurant and they ask for chicken nuggets, I'll let them have it as long as they have it with veggies on the side & not fries. I don't force them to finish the chicken but I will ask them to make sure their veggies are eaten. When the 2 youngest are a little older, I will definitely make sure they understand what it takes to get meat on the table. And that hot dogs are really made with cow peckers & brains and chicken nuggets are made with chicken butts and eyeballs. Right now they just think I'm being funny.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Margarita888

I have 3 kids ages 7, 5 & 2. The first one does not like eating meat at all. Well, mostly except for chicken nuggets. But I think that's only because I fed him that when he was about a year old at the recommendation of his pediatrician because he thought he wasn't gaining enough weight. I'm sure if I knew better back then, I would've given him something else other than chicken nuggets & mac/cheese to gain weight. But other than that, he would not touch any meat, seafood or egg, no matter if everyone around him was eating it. He has been to several birthday parties where he would come home not eating anything except cake because they served hot dogs & pepperoni pizzas. He definitely convinced me that children are naturally vegetarians.

Now as for my 2 other children, they tend to follow what the adults eat. Because my husband eats meat when we're not at home, they are exposed to it and tend to try what he eats. If it were up to me, I'd prefer to raise them as vegans/vegetarians. They do excellent with the vegan meals I fix them and they do not think anything of having broccoli or asparagus comprising 50% of their plate & more veggies &/or brown rice as the rest. But when we're at family gatherings where there's a neverending supply of e.coli-infested burgers w/ fake cheese and other kids & adults that look like they're enjoying eating it, they will naturally want to eat it too. I cringe everytime they eat it too but don't want to look like the crazy lady in the family gathering.

I'm not very militant about them eating meat, only because I don't have an explanation on why my husband eats it and I don't. I mean, I do, but it will probably be a more complicated answer than what they might be able to comprehend. If we're at a restaurant and they ask for chicken nuggets, I'll let them have it as long as they have it with veggies on the side & not fries. I don't force them to finish the chicken but I will ask them to make sure their veggies are eaten. When the 2 youngest are a little older, I will definitely make sure they understand what it takes to get meat on the table. And that hot dogs are really made with cow peckers & brains and chicken nuggets are made with chicken butts and eyeballs. Right now they just think I'm being funny.

If that convinced you that children are naturally vegetarian, then what will me not eating veggies since I was a toddler convince you of? Kids eat animal protiens from their first day of being alive