Veganism Doubts

[SuperBeaver]

Hi Everyone

I've not posted on this forum much (if at all). This forum seems like a good place to discuss the above topic since i come at things from a spiritual and physical (probaly the same) point of view.

Basically, i'm into weight training - HIT and i'm looking to get the best results i can from that. Now i understand that a vegan diet is not neccesarily the best way to do that. It may potentially slow down my gains quite substantially if not stall them completely. Does everyone agree with that? Now i could potentially just add in dairy which i think may improve matters - and perhaps some fish to go along with that.

Now the spiritual part. Well, i don't like the idea of eating cute nice looking animals. I like animals and i don't like the thought of me being part of a ruthless harvesting machine that cages in animals with the sole purpose of harvesting their flesh to feed my desires to enjoy the taste of their flesh etc etc.

On the other hand, budhism and other such disaplines also point out the fact that suffering is in the mind and i should really let go of any thoughts of others , including animals, suffering. That in a way a cow is equal to a ant and how many ants and insects die in the cultivation of grains? A lot more than cows.

So my doubts stem from the fact that maybe on dairy or even meat i can get buffer and that worries over animal suffering are something to overcome and not submit to.

On the other hand, those animals are pretty cute and the China study is very very convincing. Any thoughts? Thanks

[Erin Pavlina]

I can't recall his name but there was a famous body builder who was totally vegan. He won some competition or something.

You can be vegan and also very muscular. Steve has been doing a lot of working out with weights recently and I am amazed at how buff he is now. Do some searching through google on being vegan and also weight training and see what you find.

[escapee]

the China study is very very convincing. Any thoughts?

The china study continues to mislead nad confuse every reader (including myself) that animal saturated fats and cholesterol are to be blamed for many of the modern chronic illness such as heart diseases, cancer, diabetes and etc . I recommend reading

Amazon.com: The Cholesterol Myths : Exposing the Fallacy that Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Cause Heart Disease: Books: MD, PhD, Uffe Ravnskov

Heart of Darkness

Lipid hydroperoxides--those nasty, menacing by-products of vegetable oil processing-- are the antagonists of our arteries, agitators of our joints, the scourge of our century and an enemy of mankind. In our story Dr. America, a physician who has trained for years to spot diseased food sources, takes this reporter and a crew of brave assistants on a dangerous journey up the river of vegetable oils. Our mission: find the food with the greatest quantity of lipid hydroperoxides and do what we must. This food is our enemy and it must be stopped. Our foe has ruined many bloodstreams, capitalizing on the most pitiful of human weaknesses: gluttony. Everywhere he has been, he has left ruin and disorder.

Lipid hydroperoxides are contaminants that form from natural fatty acids when polyunsaturated fats are heated excessively, which happens in processing and when these oils are heated for cooking and frying. Lipid hydroperoxides poison our body's systems just as trans fats do; in fact, they may even be worse than trans fats because of their propensity to react with oxygen and iron, thereby forming free radicals.

It looks like hell in there. It's the end of the river all right, but the source of lipid hydroperoxides isn't the grilled hamburgers, it's the French fries cooked in reused vegetable oil.

In a flash, this reporter realizes that, whether country cut or curly, the fast food French fry is mankind's mortal enemy--one that will only become more insidious as its relative the trans fat is banned. In one super-sized serving there is enough lipid hydroperoxide to bring a grown man to his knees, lips moving in soundless desperation.

I realize that the much-maligned burger is not nearly so much the enemy as the French fry. When it comes to burgers, only the bun and the artificial cheese contain lipid hydroperoxide, not the meat itself.

[kat]

There are quite a few sites dedicated to vegan body builders, such as Vegan Bodybuilding and Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness . Specific dietary information, can be found at Vegan and Vegetarian Bodybuilding; more theoretical dietary information for weight-lifters can be found at Vegetarian Journal 2003 Issue 4 -- The Vegetarian Resource Group.

In response to your other argument, about a cow being equal to an ant, and more ants dying in the cultivation of the grain that you eat, one other thing to keep in mind would be that cows need to eat too, and as a side effect, yet more insects die; I seriously doubt there's any realistic situation where consuming animals results in the loss of less lives, or less non-plant lives.

Good luck with your choices.

[WanderingOak]

If your main reason for going Vegan is that you do not agree with factory farming and feedlot practices (they truly are nightmarish- it is beyond torture the way those animals are treated), then go with locally raised and slaughtered organic meats, if they are available in your area. You will pay a premium compared to factory farmed meat. However, I am of the opinion that the price of food is kept artifically low in America. In addition to the benefits of eating organic meats, you will be supporting local farms, as well as sustainable and humane agricultural practices.

[SuperBeaver]

I think nutrition is a very confusing if you at it from a health point of view. There are conflicting views. But from a compassion point of view i think it becomes more simple. Stop eating animal flesh.

I think i've seen those vegan sites. I've never been impressed by any pictures of any vegan bodybuilders i've seen for some reason. They all look kind of strange to me. I think i may experient.

[escapee]

Splendid Specimens: The History of Nutrition in Bodybuilding

[Natasha]

I have also heard the same thing, that being vegan/vegetarian slows down muscles growth. I think this is primarily because of not enough protein. (Most Americans eat too much protein for their lifestyle, but I think you need it if you want to body build.) Anyways, it looks like people already posted some good resources, so you can find out there.

I just wanted to share a story (so gather round the magic carpet! lol)

I am a vegetarian that has been training for aerial silks. It took about 6 weeks to be able to do a pullup, which I think is longer than it would have taken a meat-eater, but by working on it about 10x a day, I got there. Here is me doing a pullup: YouTube - Yay March Goal Yay!

So I think it is possible, it probably just takes more time, and maybe an extra protein serving. I drink Bolthouse Farms Perfectly Protein Chai Tea.

[Andrew Michaels]

Originally Posted by SuperBeaver

Basically, i'm into weight training - HIT and i'm looking to get the best results i can from that. Now i understand that a vegan diet is not neccesarily the best way to do that. It may potentially slow down my gains quite substantially if not stall them completely. Does everyone agree with that? Now i could potentially just add in dairy which i think may improve matters - and perhaps some fish to go along with that.

Plenty of jacked vegan body builders/athletes.

Kenneth G Williams - Body Builder.
Mac Danzig (MMA King Of The Cage Lightweight Champion) -Jacked..google him.
Brendan Brazier (Ironman Triathlete Champ) Thin, but he's a long distance runner, what do you want)
Carl Lewis - (9 time Olympic gold medal winner) also quite jacked when he was training.