Raw Diet For Pets!

[Snowfox]

Hello all,

I just wanted to encourage those of you with pets to start feeding them a raw-based, species-appropriate diet. I have a 10 year old cat and recently acquired a new pup from a breeder who feeds all of her dogs raw. Her dogs, including my pup's parents, were exquisite-- glowing eyes and coats, and with the grand championship titles to prove it. I truly believe the difference between her dogs and other related dogs from kennels which did not win as much is that she feeds a wholesome raw diet exclusively. All the pups bred at her kennel were fed raw after weaning. She did offer to transition my dog to cooked/dried nutritious formula, but I declined this as I was so impressed with her current results on the diet.

My little dog is continuing raw since I brought her home, and will be raw forever. She chews raw frozen bones to help with teething and snacking, and gets freeze-dried raw liver as a treat. She is exquisite to look at, glowing with health and her energy, intelligence, trainability, loving personality and alertness are worlds beyond any other dog I have ever raised. More importantly, she has minimal and relatively smell-free 'output' on this diet compared to other dogs, and no doggy odor. Since she is teething and her gums are swollen where the teeth are coming through, she often has a bloody or coppery breath smell, but otherwise no offensive dog breath. She also barely sheds although she is growing out her puppy coat.

My cat was cooked but transitioning to raw after I got my dog. So far, she really enjoys eating raw but eats very little food on this diet. I am working with her to transition her appropriately to an all-raw diet.

One benefit of raw feeding is the dog is much easier to housebreak; she only goes to the bathroom immediately after eating or after rising. Since the raw food is rich in liquids and whole blood she drinks very little water compared to dogs fed dry food, and does not have to pee all the time. This has made crate-training her easier and makes life generally more pleasant. For snacks, she will fight me for mangoes, bananas and other raw fruits, and will do anything I ask for a bit of freeze-dried pineapple. She eats a small amount of raw veggies but prefers raw meat, marrow or fruit.

I know I am already preaching to the choir, since many people here already embrace or have tried a raw diet, but I wanted to extend my advocation toward pets also. Has anyone else here fed their dogs raw? Did you notice that your dog is just an all-around better, happier, prettier, prancier dog on raw ?

[Indiana]

I feed my dog Ziwi Peak, which is an NZ-made raw-based food formulated on wild-eating balance. He also has raw frozen chicken necks as a treat. People are always complimenting him on his beautiful coat, bright eyes, good temperament and lack of doggy smell.

He has occasional short bouts of eczema but has otherwise never needed to go to the vet except for regular checkups in four years.

[ginkgo]

Have you heard of the Pottenger cat study done with 900 cats for 3 generations. 450 were fed all raw and the other 450 fed all cooked. The cats on the raw food had no problems that people have. The cats fed cooked food had all the problems that humans had in their first generation. In the 2nd generation they were worse. By the 3rd generation, the cats were becoming extinct.

By the end of the first generation the cats started to develop degenerative diseases and became quite lazy.
By the end of the second generation, the cats had developed degenerative diseases by mid-life and started losing their coordination.
By the end of the third generation the cats had developed degenerative diseases very early in life and some were born blind and weak and had a much shorter life span. Many of the third generation cats couldn't even produce offspring.

[firenexx]

This sounds pretty great. A few questions:

I assume the base of this diet is raw meat? With the occasional veggies or fruit?

Also, how would one go about transitioning a cat? It seems like it would be pretty hard to get my cat to eat raw meat when the only meat she's had is cooked (aside from the occasional mouse that she half-finishes)

[Snowfox]

Firenexx, I feed my pets a raw formula of meat, bones, veggies and fruit. The diet I feed is called Primal. I use the formulas and raw ground meat/bones for my dog and the raw formula for my cat. The formula and meat products come frozen as nuggets that you can thaw in the fridge. I portion out however much she needs for a day and then thaw that much overnight. You can find out more at primalpetfoods.com. I have no affiliation with this company except that I love their products . There are other raw food companies to check into as well, and if you have good knowledge of animal nutrition you could make your own food as well.

The way I have tried transitioning my cat is as follows: she was on dry kibble all her life, the same brand. I started out feeding her small amounts of cooked food (canned salmon, tuna or chicken) and then added some raw into the cooked meat. I also combined raw meat with the kibble but she did not like that at all, so I don't recommend it. Feed very, very small amounts of raw with cooked at first, and feed small amounts overall. You want your cat to be hungrier than normal so she will eat the food, but you don't want to starve her though. Cats are sensitive to texture and temperature, and my cat prefers her food at room temp or slightly warmer, with a more liquid texture. Experiment and see what your cat prefers.

It's important to remove the food right away if she is only partially eating it or won't eat it. This is for safety reasons as well as to encourage her to eat while she can. Eventually, when she gets hungry enough, she will eat what you give her.

Hungry pets are not such a bad thing. Most pets could stand to lose some weight and most will want to "hunt" or at least work for their food. I try to incorporate this into feeding also. With my cat I play with her and then ask for a lot of interaction and affection prior to feeding, so she has food as a reward.

Good luck!

[firenexx]

I may look for these Primal products, however I am also interested in simply buying the meat at the grocery store (organic, of course) which I assume would be cheaper. I'll have to look into this; perhaps I could do a mix of both. Of course, I can not make fortified formulas and grind bone on my own, so the Primal product line seems pretty great...

I'll definitely be looking into this and hopefully transitioning my pets at some point. Thank you for the info!


Any advice on how to explain this to someone? My girlfriend is a vegan and is completely grossed out at the idea of feeding a cat meat. (Gosh, the injustice, of feeding an animal what God has designed it to eat!) I also am a vegan and have absolutely no problem with purchasing organically raised meat products to feed to an animal, and I am aware that commercial cat food (that she buys) contains meat. I tried to explain to her the flaws in her reasoning and that it's pretty mean to feed a cat processed crap when we are eating nutritional whole foods, and she still was pretty grossed out. ("I'm not gonna buy meat to feed my cat!")

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by firenexx

I may look for these Primal products, however I am also interested in simply buying the meat at the grocery store (organic, of course) which I assume would be cheaper. I'll have to look into this; perhaps I could do a mix of both. Of course, I can not make fortified formulas and grind bone on my own, so the Primal product line seems pretty great...

I'll definitely be looking into this and hopefully transitioning my pets at some point. Thank you for the info!


Any advice on how to explain this to someone? My girlfriend is a vegan and is completely grossed out at the idea of feeding a cat meat. (Gosh, the injustice, of feeding an animal what God has designed it to eat!) I also am a vegan and have absolutely no problem with purchasing organically raised meat products to feed to an animal, and I am aware that commercial cat food (that she buys) contains meat. I tried to explain to her the flaws in her reasoning and that it's pretty mean to feed a cat processed crap when we are eating nutritional whole foods, and she still was pretty grossed out. ("I'm not gonna buy meat to feed my cat!")

I have thought very hard on the issue of feeding cats meat (given that I don't eat it myself) and have reached the conclusion that as cats are obligate carnivores it's just wrong to feed them anything else! As a human I have a choice what I want to eat, and I can survive without meat, but I don't believe it's right to NOT feed cats meat!

Besides, yes, most processed cat foods have meat... and it's usually the crappy meat that they wouldn't give to humans! There are vegan cat foods, but I don't believe they're really ideal for cats...

[aelle]

Originally Posted by firenexx

I may look for these Primal products, however I am also interested in simply buying the meat at the grocery store (organic, of course) which I assume would be cheaper. I'll have to look into this; perhaps I could do a mix of both. Of course, I can not make fortified formulas and grind bone on my own, so the Primal product line seems pretty great...

I'll definitely be looking into this and hopefully transitioning my pets at some point. Thank you for the info!


Any advice on how to explain this to someone? My girlfriend is a vegan and is completely grossed out at the idea of feeding a cat meat. (Gosh, the injustice, of feeding an animal what God has designed it to eat!) I also am a vegan and have absolutely no problem with purchasing organically raised meat products to feed to an animal, and I am aware that commercial cat food (that she buys) contains meat. I tried to explain to her the flaws in her reasoning and that it's pretty mean to feed a cat processed crap when we are eating nutritional whole foods, and she still was pretty grossed out. ("I'm not gonna buy meat to feed my cat!")

My take on it is that if you adopt an animal, then you are responsible for its well being, no matter what that entails. Being a responsible cat owner means feeding them appropriately. Most cats don't do well on vegan food, even supplemented. It makes them particularly prone to kidney problems.
If one cannot come to terms with the idea of feeding a cat meat, then they should adopt another animal... a rabbit, for example (I'm serious ; given how popular rodents are as gifts for kids, there are plenty of discarded pet rabbits, mice, rats, guinea pigs etc. in need of a caring home!)

My dog is currently on a half kibble (meat based) half home made food (vegan) diet. His treats are pure meat, though.
Ideally I would like to move him on a home made diet, either vegan (a lot of dogs do well on vegan food) or with pieces of meat and seafood that are in lowest demand, so as not to encourage production and to minimize waste. Maybe your girlfriend would be more comfortable feeding your cat sardines, anchovies and other fish low on the food chain?

We do not live in a black and white world and we have to come to terms with the shades of grey we are most comfortable with.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by aelle

My take on it is that if you adopt an animal, then you are responsible for its well being, no matter what that entails. Being a responsible cat owner means feeding them appropriately. Most cats don't do well on vegan food, even supplemented. It makes them particularly prone to kidney problems.
If one cannot come to terms with the idea of feeding a cat meat, then they should adopt another animal... a rabbit, for example (I'm serious ; given how popular rodents are as gifts for kids, there are plenty of discarded pet rabbits, mice, rats, guinea pigs etc. in need of a caring home!)

My dog is currently on a half kibble (meat based) half home made food (vegan) diet. His treats are pure meat, though.
Ideally I would like to move him on a home made diet, either vegan (a lot of dogs do well on vegan food) or with pieces of meat and seafood that are in lowest demand, so as not to encourage production and to minimize waste. Maybe your girlfriend would be more comfortable feeding your cat sardines, anchovies and other fish low on the food chain?

We do not live in a black and white world and we have to come to terms with the shades of grey we are most comfortable with.

Yes, and when it comes to animals we have to look at what is natural for them! Whether or not you think humans need meat, cats DEFINITELY need meat... they are pure little carnivores!

Nature shows us that there are animals that eat other animals, it's how the world works. Most ecosystems are balanced because there are animals that prey on other animals, and animals that eat plants. If you want to have a carnivorous pet, then you have to be willing to feed that cat its natural diet.

It's really not even a shade of grey here cats are carnivores end of story! When it comes to our feline friends, it's a fairly black and white matter!

I may not let meat pass my lips, but when it comes to my kitties, I wouldn't expect them to eat a plate of vegies

[emeadow]

Originally Posted by firenexx

Any advice on how to explain this to someone? My girlfriend is a vegan and is completely grossed out at the idea of feeding a cat meat.

One thing I always mention to folks, is think what would happen if you dropped that cat off in an uninhabited area? What would it eat then? Rodents, lizards, insects, birds, eggs, carrion......that is what it would eat. It would not eat berries, grass, seeds, or grains. It might munch on grass for digestion issues, but it would pass through pretty much undigested or puked back up.

So why would you take a cat and lock it in a house and force it to eat something it would NEVER eat in the wild? Heck, feeding chicken, quail, pheasant, rabbit, duck, pork, and fish to a domestic cat is some serious good eats compared to what they would get in the wild. Meat is species appropriate, plain and simple. All the debate about what our human ancestors ate when looking at raw food, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, etc.....that is pretty much irrelevant with cats. You can drop them off in the wild and they would instantly show you what their 'natural' diet is. No archeological digs needed for that one.

I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians who feed a raw diet, they are all over the raw feeding forums and discussion groups. Some use gloves to handle the meat, buy prepackaged products, whatever they have to do. They have analyzed the facts and they decide to make the sacrifice for the better of their pets.

I have 4 cats, the oldest have been raw fed for 8 years now. They thrive, there is no other word for it. As many times as I have struggled to stick with something, raw food has been the ONE thing I have done 100%.

[liamona]

My two year-old dog is on a mostly raw meat, bones, and organs diet, but she also gets a small amount of cooked table scraps (mainly scrambled eggs and leftovers from dinner, and cooked butternut squash as a treat). She is lean, has a good coat and white teeth. But best of all, she has no doggie breath!

[Andrew Gubb]

I would definitely feed my pets raw but I wouldn't get a dog or a cat any more as they don't fit into my vegan philosophy (it seems unnatural to feed them a special vegan cat or dog food, so i'd just rather not keep a cat or dog). Me and my girlfriend are thinking seriously about getting a rabbit. Or two rabbits so they can snuggle together (sooo adorable!). And yeah, it may be easier to feed rabbits raw than other animals but i'd definitely make a point about it.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I would definitely feed my pets raw but I wouldn't get a dog or a cat any more as they don't fit into my vegan philosophy (it seems unnatural to feed them a special vegan cat or dog food, so i'd just rather not keep a cat or dog). Me and my girlfriend are thinking seriously about getting a rabbit. Or two rabbits so they can snuggle together (sooo adorable!). And yeah, it may be easier to feed rabbits raw than other animals but i'd definitely make a point about it.

Well, I get you but I just love cats too much not to have one (or two...or three...)! Rabbits are adorable pets too, but I struggle with them... they always die on me I lost one just last week Not a clue why... but it's rather devastating when it happens!

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Well, I get you but I just love cats too much not to have one (or two...or three...)! Rabbits are adorable pets too, but I struggle with them... they always die on me I lost one just last week Not a clue why... but it's rather devastating when it happens!

Awww

I heard something, somewhere about lettuce being toxic for rabbits... could that be a clue for you?

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Awww

I heard something, somewhere about lettuce being toxic for rabbits... could that be a clue for you?

Well I hadn't heard that lettuce is toxic for rabbits, but I do know it's not an ideal food! But no, she'd had no lettuce so it wasn't that... I'm truly puzzled as a day earlier she had seemed perfectly fine! Hmm... although you've given me an idea...

My husband moved her cage to mow the lawn the day before she died...and I'm wondering if he moved it near to where some plant was that she could have nibbled a bit of? Maybe something that she shouldn't eat??! I will have to look into that!

[mcbell]

I feed my cat a raw food diet - she manages to stick to her raw food diet much better that I do - I don't think she manages to eat anywhere else.

I only started feeding her a raw food diet after I became interested in eating raw food myself, so not until she was about a year old. She is a british blue.

I feed her either chicken necks, chicken drumsticks (when they are cheap) and chicken frames, some specialised frozen pet food which has raw meat and no preservatives or anything else, or various offal, although I find it hard to believe she could take down a pig to eat it's heart - considering she has only caught a corn cob from the compost heap and not any of the birds she chases.

Anyways, I think it is a good idea, I like to think she is much healthier because of it, but I don't want to put her back on kitty biscuits and canned food to find out if raw food is better for her.

[Snowfox]

Please don't fed cats raw vegetables only! They aren't meant to be vegan! Unlike dogs and humans, which are omnivores, cats are true carnivores and require the amino acid taurine (which is found in high enough levels for them in animal tissues) in their diet, otherwise they will ultimately become blind. Dogs will accept ~40% of their diet as vegetables and fruits (don't feed grains to dogs as they cannot digest them properly) but otherwise also require that a large proportion of their diet is meat. Some dog breeds that are more ancient such as the Nordic breeds require a higher proportion of meat than this. I vary my dog's protein intake from 60-90% in keeping with what she would likely have encountered in a natural, optimal wild environment.

If you can't or won't feed your cats an animal protein-based diet, you should reconsider owning cats and instead do as Andrew Gubb is doing and stick with vegetarian pets such as rabbits .

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Snowfox

Please don't fed cats raw vegetables only! They aren't meant to be vegan! Unlike dogs and humans, which are omnivores, cats are true carnivores and require the amino acid taurine (which is found in high enough levels for them in animal tissues) in their diet, otherwise they will ultimately become blind. Dogs will accept ~40% of their diet as vegetables and fruits (don't feed grains to dogs as they cannot digest them properly) but otherwise also require that a large proportion of their diet is meat. Some dog breeds that are more ancient such as the Nordic breeds require a higher proportion of meat than this. I vary my dog's protein intake from 60-90% in keeping with what she would likely have encountered in a natural, optimal wild environment.

If you can't or won't feed your cats an animal protein-based diet, you should reconsider owning cats and instead do as Andrew Gubb is doing and stick with vegetarian pets such as rabbits .

You can give it a try IF you get educated on cat nutrition and supplement well, especially in taurine as you mentionned. But a lot of cats, males in particular, don't tolerate synthetic taurine.

[Yogibear179]

frozen bones arent good, they become brittle and break off in shards. let it warm first to room temp

[Snowfox]

I agree, aelle, but it seems like an awful lot of effort and potentially risk to force the animal to adapt to a diet that is not natural for it, simply because the owner wishes to be vegan himself. The cat would not otherwise eat a vegan supplemented diet in nature. I would view it as a very risky experiment and I wouldn't want to gamble my cat's health just because I didn't want to purchase or handle animal products. I definitely don't recommend cat owners going down that road.

[firenexx]

I would think it a very bad idea for any cat owner to attempt to feed their cat a vegan diet, even if supplementing with synthetic taurine and other supplements. It is just not right. Cats are carnivores. Simple as that. Trying to make a cat vegan is fighting mother nature. When you fight mother nature, you do not win (in this case, your cat is the one that loses).

[Snowfox]

Originally Posted by Yogibear179

frozen bones arent good, they become brittle and break off in shards. let it warm first to room temp

Actually, I have a teething puppy who gets the bones straight from the freezer and does just fine with them. I feed only larger bones (cow, venison, etc.) and find she loses interest in them once they are thawed.

I fed raw turkey necks and chicken necks occasionally but watch her very carefully so that she does not choke on them. These I do feed cut into pieces and completely thawed.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by firenexx

I would think it a very bad idea for any cat owner to attempt to feed their cat a vegan diet, even if supplementing with synthetic taurine and other supplements. It is just not right. Cats are carnivores. Simple as that. Trying to make a cat vegan is fighting mother nature. When you fight mother nature, you do not win (in this case, your cat is the one that loses).

Mother Nature doesn't seem to complain too much that I take antibiotics when I have an infection and that 10 years after my first menses I have still not gotten pregnant. I've written about it ad nauseam already, but I don't find "natural" to be a helpful concept in terms of health. I live by "proven to be beneficial".

[firenexx]

Mother Nature doesn't seem to complain too much that I take antibiotics when I have an infection and that 10 years after my first menses I have still not gotten pregnant. I've written about it ad nauseam already, but I don't find "natural" to be a helpful concept in terms of health. I live by "proven to be beneficial".

That's all well and good, but the evolutionary diet of a kitty and your infection/pregnancy issues are two extremely separate and unrelated things. I stand by my [correct] statement that trying to force a vegan diet on a cat is unhealthy, unnatural, and downright unnecessary as there is no reason for it.