Vegans and contraceptives/abortion.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Well, here's to hopeing haveing kids will be a "popular" thing to do in the future.
Otherwise, it might not happen. lol
Maybe we can just get rid of the whole "sex" thing altogether. -_-;

Waitaminute....that's another thread....

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Well, here's to hopeing haveing kids will be a "popular" thing to do in the future.
Otherwise, it might not happen. lol
Maybe we can just get rid of the whole "sex" thing altogether. -_-;

Waitaminute....that's another thread....

Actually, I really really hope that having kids starts to become less and less popular thing to do in the future. We have MORE then enough people now as it is. I'm not looking for more abortions, but I sure as hell hope that the future brings intelligence and responsibility. Instead of teaching people about abortion, we should teach them about contraception and actually using their brain. Then there will be no need for these types of discussions.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Something I always wanted to know about abortion.....
....what the hell do they do with the fetal remains?
I always thought they probably tossed them out with the garbage or something.
We can do better than that I imagine. Genetics research?
Actually that's not bad. We could even pay the mother a bit of cash for the useless left-overs. Not like she's gonna bury it! lol
I wonder what the guinness world record for abortions to one woman will be 30 years from now? Might be interesting.
I can just see the commercials for un-birth clinics now!
Damn, I need to get into this new market before it becomes mainstream!

Dude. Could we move this to the business forum? I need advice for starting-up my own clinic.

[votoshka]

I don't think the two things are connected really. I know of vegans who are pro choice.

Persoanlly I was against abortion (in most cases) before I stopped eating meat. It wasn't at all connected to me.

Note: I'm not ANTI abortion, I don't think abortion should be banned. I certainly think there are cases where it's better to abort.

But I also believe that abortion = taking a human life. That's MY belief, I'm not religious, so I don't get it from church, I don't judge others who feel different. It's a personal thing for me, and a decision I came to on my little old lonesome.

While I have no issue with contraception per se, I won't use contraceptives that prevent implantation of a fertilized ovum, because to me, that's akin to killing it. I would rather use contraceptives that prevent ovulation and/or prevent sperm entering the vaginal tract

As for eggs - an egg is only an unborn baby chicken if it was fertilized first! If the hen that laid it has been nowhere near a rooster, then I don't think of it as a baby chicken at all, because had it been left alone it would never, ever have hatched.

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

I think I turned out fine.

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

I joined the military

...

Okay, just kiddin' you I also had a young mum.

I wonder what men's opinions would be if they were the gender getting pregnant. I think it would change a lot of opinions.

[Savage]

@russianrocket: Your thread gave me the idea to write a new blog post (just posted a few minutes ago), so thanks for the inspiration.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Actually that's not bad. We could even pay the mother a bit of cash for the useless left-overs. Not like she's gonna bury it! lol

Actually, the overwhelming majority of late term abortions (when there's something that looks like a baby and not a menstrual discharge) happen on wanted pregnancies and parents do mourn their loss. Whether or not they can bury their baby depends on legal issues but having a ceremony is not uncommon.

You might want to inform yourself a little more on the topic before you keep lol-ing away.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by Weena

...

Okay, just kiddin' you I also had a young mum.

I wonder what men's opinions would be if they were the gender getting pregnant. I think it would change a lot of opinions.

Resposibility is a tough pill to swallow i'll agree.
You should come to my clinic when I get it up!
Twins are gonna be two-for-one low price! Unmarried women get a discount!
It'll be a tax deduction!
For only a few dollars more we'll let you keep the ultra-sound pictures as a momento!
Prostitutes are free on Sundays! (make sure to bring your pimp for verification)

Come one come all!

I'm going to make a killing!

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by aelle

Actually, the overwhelming majority of late term abortions (when there's something that looks like a baby and not a menstrual discharge) happen on wanted pregnancies and parents do mourn their loss. Whether or not they can bury their baby depends on legal issues but having a ceremony is not uncommon.

You might want to inform yourself a little more on the topic before you keep lol-ing away.

I'm only thinking logicly hon, if a train's coming through, get on it, not under it.
.....lol
And natural abortions are hardly a choice. I don't see what that has to do with my sweet future abortion clinic? -_-;

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Resposibility is a tough pill to swallow i'll agree.
You should come to my clinic when I get it up!
Twins are gonna be two-for-one low price! Unmarried women get a discount!
It'll be a tax deduction!
For only a few dollars more we'll let you keep the ultra-sound pictures as a momento!
Prostitutes are free on Sundays! (make sure to bring your pimp for verification)

Come one come all!

I'm going to make a killing!

It's kind of bitter sweet to read this. You seem to think all women who abort happily do it...? Can you stop one minute and consider some people have reasons other than a "just don't want a kid" and that getting pregnant is not only related to irresponsible sex/drunk slut sex? Please?

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Weena

It's kind of bitter sweet to read this. You seem to think all women who abort happily do it...? Can you stop one minute and consider some people have reasons other than a "just don't want a kid" and that getting pregnant is not only related to irresponsible sex/drunk slut sex? Please?

I particularly appreciate the use of "just" in "just don't want a kid". It's not like having a kid is a major, life changing decision that involves a whole other human being for the next 18 years of his life, right?

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by Weena

It's kind of bitter sweet to read this. You seem to think all women who abort happily do it...? Can you stop one minute and consider some people have reasons other than a "just don't want a kid" and that getting pregnant is not only related to irresponsible sex/drunk slut sex? Please?

Of course it's not always responsible!
.......you didn't read my original post.....did you?

And if you havn't guessed, i'm not serious.

But someone will make clinics like mine, if they havn't already sweetheart. Just too easy.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

@russianrocket: Your thread gave me the idea to write a new blog post (just posted a few minutes ago), so thanks for the inspiration.

I like it. I don't normally agree with some of your ethics/food/environment articles, but I feel this one should resonate with every single person, no matter what their beliefs are.

Tho, preparing an animal for food, is not something just anyone can do. Cut the wrong thing and you contaminate the meat, and you just not only ruined the meat, but wasted the life of the animal. Well, not wasted, as it's life will go back into the ground, but you get the point. Maybe go and see and participate with a professional butcher. Just like you, I know for a fact that animal consumption would drop. And while I hope it doesn't get eliminated, we really don't need to eat as many burgers as we do!

[Weena]

Originally Posted by aelle

I particularly appreciate the use of "just" in "just don't want a kid". It's not like having a kid is a major, life changing decision that involves a whole other human being for the next 18 years of his life, right?

I think he simplifies it way too much .

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by aelle

I particularly appreciate the use of "just" in "just don't want a kid". It's not like having a kid is a major, life changing decision that involves a whole other human being for the next 18 years of his life, right?

I'm sorry, I didn't know you had children?
But I can understand why you wouldn't want to do something "hard".
Takes way too much effort to raise kids I guess. Accidents do happen huh?
Jeez, I would have slapped my mother if she said that she wanted to abort me.
Though i'm sure the kids you finally do have are gonna listen to you alright!
"I got rid of two others because I thought they were going to be too much of a hassle! I'll get rid of you too if you don't straighten-up!" Haha!!

......oh boy! *tear*

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Resposibility is a tough pill to swallow i'll agree.
You should come to my clinic when I get it up!
Twins are gonna be two-for-one low price! Unmarried women get a discount!
It'll be a tax deduction!
For only a few dollars more we'll let you keep the ultra-sound pictures as a momento!
Prostitutes are free on Sundays! (make sure to bring your pimp for verification)

Come one come all!

I'm going to make a killing!

I don't think this is a thread for making comments and jokes like you are doing right now.

Do you ever stop to think about the reason why people may get an abortion? How difficult that decision is for women (and some men?)?

I think you are showing an incredible insensitive side here.

It is ok that you are against abortion. Doesn't mean that you have to be so harsh about it. If you cannot discuss your opinion in a normal, adult fashion, better stay out of this thread.

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Of course it's not always responsible!
.......you didn't read my original post.....did you?

And if you havn't guessed, i'm not serious.

But someone will make clinics like mine, if they havn't already sweetheart. Just too easy.

Yes part of what i was saying was from your first post as well. It's good to know though, that if you ever have a cracked condom or whatever else may have ended in pregnancy, you will swallow your responsibility pill, get your girl for all her doctors appointments, support her for at least three months of morning sickness, will be there for the time of pregnancy and the delivery, will change nappies, wake up to feed, and raise a human being the best you can for the two following decades, and who knows, if the girl is very young you could as well be a dad at home while she goes through university. I'm not sarcastic, here. I do respect it. Not every man is like you though .

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

I'm sorry, I didn't know you had children?

Aelle doesn't yet. I do. A 3 y.o boy and a 5 months old girl.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Good question. I think I turned out fine.
My mother was 16, father had no job, and I spent most of my life in poverty helping raise my two siblings, untill I joined the military got a real job and became financially independant.
There have been quite a few geniuses from hard-luck backgrounds.
So you have to ask yourself, "Would I be here today, if abortion was the norm 20-40 years ago?".
Would you?
Can you be sure?

Yes, but did your parents love you?

That is more important than how old your mother was, or if you had money growing up or not. Your father also stuck around.

What if the mother just doesn't want any children? Really really dislikes children? Cannot stand them? Still think it is better to have them and raise them?
Or what about a drug addict? Should she just raise her children and hope for the best? Even when she knows, and doesn't want to get off drugs? So the baby will already be born with an addiction?
Or what if the mother has a disease such as Huntington disease where she knows she'll die early, no dad around?

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by Weena

Yes part of what i was saying was from your first post as well. It's good to know though, that if you ever have a cracked condom or whatever else may have ended in pregnancy, you will swallow your responsibility pill, get your girl for all her doctors appointments, support her for at least three months of morning sickness, will be there for the time of pregnancy and the delivery, will change nappies, wake up to feed, and raise a human being the best you can for the two following decades, and who knows, if the girl is very young you could as well be a dad at home while she goes through university. I'm not sarcastic, here. I do respect it. Not every man is like you though .

Did plenty of that with two younger siblings while both parents worked. I have friends younger than me who do it right now.
I'm glad to know that you would as well.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

I'm sorry, I didn't know you had children?
But I can understand why you wouldn't want to do something "hard".
Takes way too much effort to raise kids I guess. Accidents do happen huh?
Jeez, I would have slapped my mother if she said that she wanted to abort me.
Though i'm sure the kids you finally do have are gonna listen to you alright!
"I got rid of two others because I thought they were going to be too much of a hassle! I'll get rid of you too if you don't straighten-up!" Haha!!

......oh boy! *tear*

I don't have children yet precisely because I know it is a major, life changing decision that involves a whole other human being for the next 18 years of his life, and that I want to do it right, not just wing it.

If your mother had wanted to abort you, you wouldn't be here to hear it and suffer from that thought. I, on the other hand, am absolutely grateful that my mother *chose* to have me, as I wouldn't wish for anyone to be forced through an unwanted pregnancy and unwanted childrearing.

Originally Posted by Weena

Yes part of what i was saying was from your first post as well. It's good to know though, that if you ever have a cracked condom or whatever else may have ended in pregnancy, you will swallow your responsibility pill, get your girl for all her doctors appointments, support her for at least three months of morning sickness, will be there for the time of pregnancy and the delivery, will change nappies, wake up to feed, and raise a human being the best you can for the two following decades, and who knows, if the girl is very young you could as well be a dad at home while she goes through university. I'm not sarcastic, here. I do respect it. Not every man is like you though .

AND that you are willing to do it alone if you know there is a chance the woman in question might die from pregnancy or delivery related complications. AND that in the unfortunate event that your unplanned child be born with a disability, you are willing to take care of him, physically and financially, not for 2 decades but for the rest of your life, even if this leads you to bankrupcy, even if this completely destroys every plan you had for the future. It does take tremendous courage and selflessness to accept all children that come your way no matter what, and I admire people who can do it.

People who want to force it on others, not so much.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Yes, but did your parents love you?

That is more important than how old your mother was, or if you had money growing up or not. Your father also stuck around.

What if the mother just doesn't want any children? Really really dislikes children? Cannot stand them? Still think it is better to have them and raise them?
Or what about a drug addict? Should she just raise her children and hope for the best? Even when she knows, and doesn't want to get off drugs? So the baby will already be born with an addiction?
Or what if the mother has a disease such as Huntington disease where she knows she'll die early, no dad around?

Back in the day, I would have knocked the piss out of a parent like that. Probably still would. I'm sure a parent like that wouldn't mind putting their child up for adoption so that a more worthy humanbeing could raise them.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Back in the day, I would have knocked the piss out of a parent like that. Probably still would. I'm sure a parent like that wouldn't mind putting their child up for adoption so that a more worthy humanbeing could raise them.

Actually... You'd be surprised how many of them wouldn't put up a child for adoption once they have been guilt tripped into keeping the child instead of an abortion.

IF they would give up the child for abortion... how many children do you think get adopted? If you take into consideration that the child has been on drugs for the 9 months it has been in the womb, and there for already will have learning disabilities and other problems.. how many wanna be parents would adopt that baby?

So that means foster care. Being shoved from one place to another. Never having a real home.

And that's for the lucky ones. The ones that do get to be taken away from their real parents.

Otherwise you end up with a scenario where a child will have to wait for days before it gets fed. Gets beaten once it gets older. Maybe the mom needs money for her next fix, so sells the child to a guy on the street to have sex with. Child will be abused. Beaten. Neglected. Until he or she dies.

Think that doesn't happen? It does.

If it were me (thankfully it isn't) I'd prefer to have been aborted than to live a short and miserable life.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Back in the day, I would have knocked the piss out of a parent like that. Probably still would.

So where would that leave the child? You beating up a pregnant woman doing drugs? Doesn't sound to good for a child.
You beating up a bad parent? Betcha that the child will get double that once you leave.

Thing is, you cannot MAKE people be good parents. I applaud people who know they won't be good parents and do the responsible thing, by NOT BEING PARENTS!

[russianrocket]

This is by far unlike any abortion discussion I've ever participaed in. A lot of things being posted that I've never seen posted before.

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by aelle

I don't have children yet precisely because I know it is a major, life changing decision that involves a whole other human being for the next 18 years of his life, and that I want to do it right, not just wing it.

If your mother had wanted to abort you, you wouldn't be here to hear it and suffer from that thought. I, on the other hand, am absolutely grateful that my mother *chose* to have me, as I wouldn't wish for anyone to be forced through an unwanted pregnancy and unwanted childrearing.



AND that you are willing to do it alone if you know there is a chance the woman in question might die from pregnancy or delivery related complications. AND that in the unfortunate event that your unplanned child be born with a disability, you are willing to take care of him, physically and financially, not for 2 decades but for the rest of your life, even if this leads you to bankrupcy, even if this completely destroys every plan you had for the future. It does take tremendous courage and selflessness to accept all children that come your way no matter what, and I admire people who can do it.

People who want to force it on others, not so much.

You might not understand how things used to work over here back then. If a woman purposely killed her child before it was born, she was not only disowned by the parents who had the decency to raise her so that she could have a chance for a future, but they would lock her up in an institution so that she couldn't harm anyone else.

As for raiseing a child with a disability? Are you sure you don't want to re-think that statement? So, let me get this straight.
If you have got a baby on the way (or for you, we'll settle for an "it") an you found that it wasn't "perfectly normal".....it's ass would be grass?
That doesn't sit well with me.

And believe it or not, a child is far more important than you sh1tty "future plans".
What kind of "future" doesn't include children? You sound like a child yourself when you say such things.

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

Did plenty of that with two younger siblings while both parents worked. I have friends younger than me who do it right now.
I'm glad to know that you would as well.

As a matter of fact i had an abortion when i was 18 and before you ask, no i don't want to share any details about it, apart that i do not see how this poor child would have had a good life at all.

So yes becoming a mother consciously and with a loving husband, and six years after that was certainly a better choice.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

You might not understand how things used to work over here back then. If a woman purposely killed her child before it was born, she was not only disowned by the parents who had the decency to raise her so that she could have a chance for a future, but they would lock her up in an institution so that she couldn't harm anyone else.

As for raiseing a child with a disability? Are you sure you don't want to re-think that statement? So, let me get this straight.
If you are got a baby on the way (or for you, we'll settle for an "it") an you found that it wasn't "perfectly normal".....it's ass would be grass?
That doesn't sit well with me.

And believe it or not, a child is far more important than you sh1tty "future plans".
What kind of "future" doesn't include children? You sound like a child yourself when you say such things.

I'm almost certain that the point she was making, is that someone who'd want an abortion no matter what, who isn't prepared for a normal child, sure as hell wouldn't be prepared for a disabled child. And while deciding on an abortion, not only should you consider having to take care of then for 18 years, but the possibility of giving your child the rest of your life. Those decisions are what people go through, instead of " just doesn't want a kid" like you have suggested.

my future doesn't include children. There are more then enough right now and the world doesn't need anymore. That makes me a child?

Ever heard of adopting? With all the non abortions, there are a hell of a lot of kids that need a home! Like all the non aborted crack and alcohol babies!

[Sain Outre Longfang]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

This is by far unlike any abortion discussion I've ever participaed in. A lot of things being posted that I've never seen posted before.

That reeks of sacasim.......
.....it hurts when you say things like that Rocket. *cries*

Honestly I don't really care what people do. I just wanted to talk about it.
Eh? *shrugs*

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Sain Outre Longfang

So, let me get this straight.
If you are got a baby on the way (or for you, we'll settle for an "it") an you found that it wasn't "perfectly normal".....it's ass would be grass?
That doesn't sit well with me.

And believe it or not, a child is far more important than you sh1tty "future plans".
What kind of "future" doesn't include children? You sound like a child yourself when you say such things.

If you had read what I wrote instead of what you wanted to read, you would have realized I said nothing of the sort. Please re-read.