Insomniac adopting everyman sleep

[jacksgrapes]

Background: I have free-standing primary insomnia. This is insomnia that is seemingly not caused by anything like stress, anxiety, or lifestyle - it just exists. I'm 23 years old and it's been destroying my life since 8th grade. I've been through therapy, hypnosis, taken medication, and tried countless lifestyle changes. Nothing has worked and hardly anything has helped. The goal of everything that my doctors have had me try has always been get more sleep. Because of this I wanted to try jumping into an everyman sleep schedule to get only slightly more sleep but higher quality.

Schedule:
Sleep from - Sleep to
4:00AM - 7:00AM
11:30AM - 12:00PM
5:00PM - 5:30PM
10:00PM - 10:30PM

Goals:
- Gain a Consistent sleep schedule.
- Exercise once daily (unless my body is fatigued)
- Keep busy throughout the entire day
- Eat healthy
- Write about my experience here as needed. I know it will help me.

Little footnote: I've been trying to adapt to this lately and was having a lot of success until this Sunday. I didn't have anything to do or any reason to get up so I just stayed in bed and got bad sleep (shifting between sleeping and waking). Today I failed at moving back to my previous success. The problem wasn't that the schedule wasn't working - its that when i didn't need it I dropped everything like a hat. I have a huge stack of books i'd like to read, a workout plan i'd like to start, and I'm posting a little sleep diary here. Hopefully these things will help me stick to my goals.

[joelr]

I hate insomnia, I had it for a few years. I was able to break the pattern at one point with Ativan (Lorazapam) but the 1mg did not work. 3.5 mg did and the 2nd night I still had a leftover drowsiness that caused sleep.
Then for a while my body was used to sleeping at night but it eventually came back.
You cannot use Ativan every night. Eventually a doc tried Remeron (Mirtzapline) which is an antidepressant that makes one drowsy and it did work on the insomnia.
After a few months I started skipping it and eventually stopped altogether and had no insomnia.
It comes back occasionally for 1 night or so. But ativan is best used as a last resort as it's addictive and hard to get off. Just single doses when absolutely needed.
I had the same problem with flight anxiety. The 1mg thing didn't help, I found that it took 4mg to erase all anxiety. But it was like a miracle, I became totally at ease.
Of course with all meds you should use caution and follow doctors orders. Or at least educate yourself on side effects and dosages. I am not a professional doc.

This was all before I was into meditation, I think meditating in bed in a cross-legged position whenever I can't sleep helps but I haven't really had to test it out.
I know how crazy it is to lie in bed hour after hour being unable to sleep. Or falling asleep after a monumental effort and waking up 30 min later.

None of this will probably help, just relating my story.

[jacksgrapes]

Medication has never worked correctly for me. I've had some results from various lifestyle changes and relaxation methods but nothing has ever been a monumental help. I hope this sleep pattern will be good though

Day 1: my core sleep was horrible. I couldn't stay down for a significant period of time and ended up getting out of bed an hour early. I was very prepared for this to happen since I had slept about 8 hours prior to my core sleep (my system was still so out of wack from failing my previous attempt at everyman sleep). My naps went ok, I fell asleep every time although it took a while and i felt like **** when i woke. This is most likely because i abused the **** out of caffeine B). I had a chess tournament so I couldn't afford not to be alert. Overall i felt very active throughout the day, likely due to the caffeine as well. I drank some right before my last nap (5:30pm) so that it would hit me right when i awoke. Right now i'm really starting to feel reaaaaly ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and i have some school work to do. I'm going to take my last nap of the day, probably wake up feeling crappy, make some protein rich food and study for a couple hours leaving about an hour to wind down for my core sleep. I don't imagine the most pleasant experience but I should end up sleeping well for my core. I don't think waking up is going to go well, but i'm mowing the lawn right when i do. It's gonna suck worse than the economy but it will get me up *insert stimulus joke*

time for my nap... I feel like im 8 lol

[JamesKnochel]

Originally Posted by jacksgrapes

Background: I have free-standing primary insomnia. This is insomnia that is seemingly not caused by anything like stress, anxiety, or lifestyle - it just exists.

There's always a cause, it's just a matter of finding out what's keeping the body from resting.

I'm 23 years old and it's been destroying my life since 8th grade.

What else happened when you were in 8th grade, before the insomnia started?

I've been through therapy, hypnosis, taken medication, and tried countless lifestyle changes. Nothing has worked and hardly anything has helped.

Edgar Cayce recommended his Radial Appliance for "everyone", but especially to bring "rest to the weary"... Don't know if anyone else's Radial Appliances are properly built, 'cause I've only used my own. Still working on my presentation, but the business is starting to take off...

-James

[jacksgrapes]

Originally Posted by JamesKnochel

There's always a cause, it's just a matter of finding out what's keeping the body from resting.

Idiopathic insomnia – Primary insomnia- American Sleep Association

What else happened when you were in 8th grade, before the insomnia started?

8th grade is just when it started to really effect my life. I've had it for as long as I can remember.

Edgar Cayce recommended his Radial Appliance for "everyone", but especially to bring "rest to the weary"... Don't know if anyone else's Radial Appliances are properly built, 'cause I've only used my own. Still working on my presentation, but the business is starting to take off...

-James

Ugh seriously? I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but i am. I've been to see plenty of sleep experts, which you obviously are not. Promote your crap elsewhere.

[JamesKnochel]

Originally Posted by jacksgrapes

Idiopathic insomnia – Primary insomnia- American Sleep Association ... Ugh seriously? I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but i am. I've been to see plenty of sleep experts, which you obviously are not. Promote your crap elsewhere.

...

You're probably right, there must be no cause, so basically you're just screwed. I recommend you spend the rest of your life going from expert to expert to expert hoping for some kind of palliative relief. The letters after a person's name matter more than anything else: book knowledge trumps real-world experience every time.

If Edgar Cayce was still alive you could ask him for a reading, but you're 66 years too late. Sucks to be you.

HTH, HAND.

-James

[goldberg]

Originally Posted by jacksgrapes

Medication has never worked correctly for me. I've had some results from various lifestyle changes and relaxation methods but nothing has ever been a monumental help. I hope this sleep pattern will be good though

Day 1: my core sleep was horrible. I couldn't stay down for a significant period of time and ended up getting out of bed an hour early. I was very prepared for this to happen since I had slept about 8 hours prior to my core sleep (my system was still so out of wack from failing my previous attempt at everyman sleep). My naps went ok, I fell asleep every time although it took a while and i felt like **** when i woke. This is most likely because i abused the **** out of caffeine B). I had a chess tournament so I couldn't afford not to be alert. Overall i felt very active throughout the day, likely due to the caffeine as well. I drank some right before my last nap (5:30pm) so that it would hit me right when i awoke. Right now i'm really starting to feel reaaaaly ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and i have some school work to do. I'm going to take my last nap of the day, probably wake up feeling crappy, make some protein rich food and study for a couple hours leaving about an hour to wind down for my core sleep. I don't imagine the most pleasant experience but I should end up sleeping well for my core. I don't think waking up is going to go well, but i'm mowing the lawn right when i do. It's gonna suck worse than the economy but it will get me up *insert stimulus joke*

time for my nap... I feel like im 8 lol

I noticed you said you had caffeine? If you have insomnia problems then try cutting out caffeine out. For me personally I find that caffeine intake affects my ability to sleep for at least 7 hours before sleep. As does having a shower, for some wierd reason.

[Leesah]

jacksgrapes, I can relate, I slept badly for about 9 years until recently (not to brag but it is amazing to finally sleep!!!! it makes a difference to everything, I have more energy and am happier).

I know you're giving this everyman sleep thing a go, and I wish you luck. It's worth a try because you never know what may work for you. But personally I reallly don't like the sound of it. From someone who had 9 years of difficulty falling asleep (sometimes not until 7am-9am) and constant wakings (one year, my worst, I would eventually fall asleep but then wake up every hour for a couple hours, then every 10 minutes until I got up --- I felt like ****, even though I was sleeping a lot, it was un-restful & interupted sleep). So just from my experience of NOW being able to sleep, I wouldn't ever want to trade 8-10 hours of consecutive sleep. I can't imagine you would feel good on less consecutive hours sleep, but I haven't researched the everyman, so it's just an opinion on face value. I did read a lot about sleep though and it's CONSECUTIVE hours that you apparently need... so if that's the case I can't see the everyman working (but again it's just an opinion and it may well work).

Just wanted to share what finally cured my insomnia. Like joelr what helped/helps me, immensely, was/is mirtazapine. I was prescribed it for mental health stuff, but I was prescribed that particular one because it also works as a sleeping pill. Meds aren't a cure all because you eventually have to stop taking them, but once they help you sleep & you get in a routine it MIGHT break the insomnia cycle (I can't say for sure cos I'm still taking it & can take it for at least another 9 months.. but even if I go back to insomnia I'm SO pleased for this last year+ of sleep). Have you tried that particular pill? I had tried lots of things prior also and this one just really, really works. It does take 4 hours for it to work for me though, so I take it at 8 and by 12 I'm fully ready for sleep and will sleep a solid 10 hours (which is prob too much but I really don't mind right now .. I can get up earlier, with an alarm, though)

Another thing which was a godsend was the sleep hypnosis cd which comes with Paul Mckenna's "I can make you sleep" (or something?) book. Sometimes when I forget to take my pill on time I'll be wide awake when it comes to bed time, so I listen to the hypnosis cd once or twice and without fail I fall asleep. It worked for me, for falling asleep, even when I wasn't taking the mirtazapine so if you problem is falling asleep I really can't recommend that cd enough. I don't even actually LISTEN to the cd anymore, I just lay there and it sends me to sleep. I definitely, definitely recommend giving this a good try (don't just listen once and give up, it could take a while ... you're gonna be lying awake in bed anyway so might as well listen to this cd, like I said I listen to it up to 2 times - it only lasts 20 mins - but for good sleep I would listen to it for hours if it eventually did the trick).


PS. Give up caffeine!! Or don't drink it after 2pm. You can buy de-caf coffee/tea or drink herbal teas if you don't want to give up your drinks.
Bananas & milk are also supposed to help with sleep.


If all this advice has already been tried & not worked then best of luck with the everyman technique. Or even if you haven't tried it - also good luck

[joelr]

Originally Posted by jacksgrapes

Medication has never worked correctly for me. I've had some results from various lifestyle changes and relaxation methods but nothing has ever been a monumental help. I hope this sleep pattern will be good though

There are 3 groups of meds, I don't know if you've tried them all but they are:

Over the counter sleep aid - Diphendramine - really just a antihistamine, doesn't work well for serious insomnia

Antidepressants - Mainly Mirtzapline which seems to help a lot of people

Benzos - Valium, Ativan, the actual sleep aid benzo is Temazapam which is the sort of classic sleeping pill. The army uses them and calls them "NoGo" pills. But Ativan is the most common anti-anxiety/sleep aid.
They are very powerful but not usually given to young folks. Good for 1 time use only.
Like I said you have to find your dose (in a safe way), 1mg was my script but it did nothing for my anxiety. Nada.

Benzos usually do what you want them to do (fix stress, anxiety, insomnia) but for addictive personalities it's a whole world best left alone.

Good luck with whatever cure you can find.

[Lakshyayidhi Lakshmihi]

"idiopathic" means "of unknown origin" - it doesn't mean there is no origin, just that medical experts cannot determine the origin from the information presented to them. It's a catch-all diagnosis that MD's use when they don't know what to do.

Have you had a sleep study done to show the amount of time your brain enters various sleep stages and the length? I'm just curious because you mention therapy, hypnosis, and medication, but not ever having received treatment at a sleep clinic where you spend the night and have a 24-hour EEG done.

Caffiene is the worst drug to incorporate into your life is you want to sleep properly. It takes 6 hours to metabolize, +/- depending on your metabolism. If you take various medications or have liver issues, it can take up to 56 hours for your body to eliminate caffiene from your tissues. If you take in caffiene repeatedly, it can take even longer.

[richardxthripp]

Do you have a job? What was your life like before 8th grade? Did you naturally sleep during the day and stay up at night? Some people are just not meant to be early risers, but have far better lives embracing the night shift. If this is you and you have a day job, quit it.

The best way to break an insomnia cycle is a tranquilizer or powerful sleeping pill—maybe a Xanax or Ativan. Try not to do this more than once a month.

[Wildside]

Hey jacksgrapes, thought I would throw you my 2cents. I have been having sleep problems for about 7 or 8 years. My issue is I wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep. which leaves me bagged a lot of the time. I've tried a few drugs but I find most of them leave me "hung over" the next day. The latest one my doc prescribed is Elavil (Amitriptyline), it is an anti-depressant which is mostly prescribed for sleep disorders these days. I tried it and it did make me sleep but again I was hung over until about 6pm the next day. However, reading others reviews of it it sounds like it helps a lot of folks, and most of them say the hangover effect diminishes with time. I just don't really like taking drugs for it. For the last month I have been running, I am hoping if I keep upping my distance I will eventually sleep through the night. I have read good things about it. I am up to 30 min a day now and it is definitely making me feel better, haven't really gotten the sleep benefit yet, but we'll see. Hope you find something that works for you.

[joelr]

I forgot to mention the new benzo replacements - lunesta and ambien.

They aren't as strong and from my experience are very strange drugs. They do leave you sleepy the next day and they give a strange sleep and weird dreams. I only used each one a few times. I wouldn't use them again.

[ErnieD]

This is by no means a primary cure for insomnia but by all means a perfect nightcap to lifestyle techniques involving exercise and diet: walking backwards.

Believe it or not, walking backwards (yes you can look over your shoulder as much as you like), has some marvelously calming effect on your nervous system. I used this after my heart surgery, when pain and being bed ridden for 3 months had destroyed whatever healthy sleep patterns I had.

Kudos to my Chinese mother-in-law for this one!

[Minxed]

Ernie I'm going to have to try that one! Will it work on a treadmill? I can see why it WOULD help, but I would never have thought of it on my own.

I have had insomnia for most of my life. I would exercise an hour before bed, then shower and slowly wind down with books and warm cocoa or cider. I've tried hypnosis cd's, melatonin (which made me have AWFUL nightmares for the 3 days I could stand waking up screaming and sweating!), reading a specific number of pages in a book, lights on a timer, and I can't even remember some of the other cooky ideas people have suggested. What finally worked for me is reducing my caffeine intake 6 hours before trying to sleep, physical exercise during the day, but not within two hours of wanting to sleep, meditation and focusing on a soothing picture, be it a slowly blowing black velvet curtain, or water running over dark round rocks in a creek.

To be honest, the best sleep aide for me has been orgasm about 20 minutes before I try to sleep. Luckily this is my husband's favorite sleep aide. I realize it's not exactly the solution everyone can employ . I've found that the few people I was brave enough to suggest it to as a "cure" have all recognized improvement in their own sleep cycles when implementing it!

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Minxed

Ernie I'm going to have to try that one! Will it work on a treadmill? I can see why it WOULD help, but I would never have thought of it on my own.

I have had insomnia for most of my life. I would exercise an hour before bed, then shower and slowly wind down with books and warm cocoa or cider. I've tried hypnosis cd's, melatonin (which made me have AWFUL nightmares for the 3 days I could stand waking up screaming and sweating!), reading a specific number of pages in a book, lights on a timer, and I can't even remember some of the other cooky ideas people have suggested. What finally worked for me is reducing my caffeine intake 6 hours before trying to sleep, physical exercise during the day, but not within two hours of wanting to sleep, meditation and focusing on a soothing picture, be it a slowly blowing black velvet curtain, or water running over dark round rocks in a creek.

To be honest, the best sleep aide for me has been orgasm about 20 minutes before I try to sleep. Luckily this is my husband's favorite sleep aide. I realize it's not exactly the solution everyone can employ . I've found that the few people I was brave enough to suggest it to as a "cure" have all recognized improvement in their own sleep cycles when implementing it!

Both exercise at night and caffeine any time after 12 noon are known causes of insomnia. I'm surprised you didn't try that sooner rather than suffer with that so long. Chronic insomnia also warrants quitting caffeine because if you look at the half life there is still caffeine in your system after 6 or even 12 hours. Daily coffee drinkers, over long periods, have overlapping half-life caffeine in their system at all times.

Most people can still sleep through it but sensitive sleepers can have trouble.

But the caffeine isn't really the full cause, it's an emotional thing usually. I drink tons of coffee now and it has no effect on sleep but I used to have insomnia like crazy.

I never took melatonin but ambien was like that, scary dreams, sweating and bizzare feelings I can't even put into words.