The Inspiring Story of Ruth Heidrich (video)

[secrets0stolen]

How she overcame breast cancer with a vegan diet, and ran a triathlon at 47:
Ruth Heidrich: longterm vegan success : OrganicAthlete : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

[ginkgo]

She is an example of the right way to be a vegan. Another woman did it the wrong way and became depressed and mean. She was posted on here. Then she started eating meat and now she is stongly anti-vegan. But I believe in karma. Say I become a Catholic and look for a priest that will give my son special attention. It will end up bad.

Non-Christians think that Jesus was an idiot. Christians think that He is God but is not very bright. He taught to treat others as you would want to be treated since that is what will happen to you. Sometimes you will punish yourself to make it simple. Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian who liked killing. No one killed him. He killed himself. A diet cannot save you from your karma. Jesus also said "as you sow, so shall you reap."

It is nice to see a good picture of you. You have an adorable looking face. If you are on Facebook then contact me here and become my friend. I have been to South of the Border (mall or whatever) a few times. Have you been there?

[russianrocket]

I'm a non-christian who thinks Jesus was very smart. It's not Christ, but the Christians. Why it's necessary for you to include completely off topic useless things in your posts, I'll never know.


It's not the food that overcomes illness, but the mind eating that food. I can show you many examples of people who went " the right way" of being an omnivore, and overcame illnesses. There is no reason to act like the food is the holy grail of all illness.

There are many more stupid vegans, that are doing it on a whim, because all the other vegans say it is the only way to live. They out number the "healthy" ones ten fold.

[ginkgo]

The Inspiring story of Jane Doe is not an interesting title. This is better-- 47 Year Old Woman with Cancer Does Triathlon.

There are 2 things that have to do with everything in a person's life-- psychology (study of mind) and karma. Those 2 things are never off topic. Everythng that you say and do comes from your mind. If you have a sick mind, then you say and do sick things. Then everything that happens in your life is the result of your actions like in those quotes of Jesus. Like her getting the famous McDougall as a doctor

I am not a Christian. Mark 4:9 New International Version (©1984)
Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Now he is not talking about ears but an open mind which many people do not posess.

She mentions on the video that she was constipated her whole life until she became a vegan. Animal foods have no fiber. All unprocessed plant foods have plenty of fiber. There is no need for a vegan to measue their fiber intake.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

There are 2 things that have to do with everything in a person's life-- psychology (study of mind) and karma. Those 2 things are never off topic. Everythng that you say and do comes from your mind. If you have a sick mind, then you say and do sick things. Then everything that happens in your life is the result of your actions like in those quotes of Jesus. Like her getting the famous McDougall as a doctor

I am not a Christian. Mark 4:9 New International Version (©1984)
Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Now he is not talking about ears but an open mind which many people do not posess.

She mentions on the video that she was constipated her whole life until she became a vegan. Animal foods have no fiber. All unprocessed plant foods have plenty of fiber. There is no need for a vegan to measue their fiber intake.

I'll use groundless' example.

A summary from Good Caories/Bad Calories

Fiber
the refined carb hypothesis morphed into the fiber hypothesis

this fit better with Ancel Keys’s hypothesis, much easier to promote than dissing sugar

led to the idea that lack of fiber causes obesity

less available energy in fiber-rich diets (fiber is zero-calorie bulk)

fiber hypothesis took off in the media, had to be paired with the anti-fat message to get traction (i.e., fat is causative, fiber is protective)

became part of the conventional wisdom;
its benefits were overstated another example of Rose’s mass prevention philosophy

however, the evidence refuting the fiber hypothesis steadily piled up
since it was part of the conventional wisdom, it just wouldn’t die
proponents completely disregarded the evidence or rationalized away the data, saying fiber has other benefits

fiber became detached from the original hypothesis and was promoted based on what was yet untested (staying alive by staying one step ahead of the science)

Fiber from fruits and vegetables causes digestive harm.

If you were right, then all the people on on meat only or 90% meat diets, should be dead by now. Seeing how only becoming a vegan will cure someone of their constipation... There might not be a need for a vegan to measure their fiber intake, but there sure as hell is a need for them to measure just about everything else.

[Groundless]

Another perspective on breast cancer that is not just anecdotal:

High fat diet reduces breast cancer

Women with the lowest intake of dietary fat had significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than women with the highest intake of dietary fat.

Women with the highest intake of carbohydrate had a significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than women with the lowest intake of carbohydrate.

Intake of macronutrients and risk of breast cancer. [Lancet. 1996] - PubMed result

So, to reduce breast cancer risk, eat more fat, eat less carbohydrates including fruits but especially anything sugar or flour.

She mentions on the video that she was constipated her whole life until she became a vegan. Animal foods have no fiber. All unprocessed plant foods have plenty of fiber. There is no need for a vegan to measue their fiber intake.

if you go from the SAD to vegan I have no doubt the bowels improve. Want it even better? Eat only meat, fatty delicious meat. Most people experience relief from bloating, gas, strained BM's while on an all carnivore diet.

Vegetation causes lesions in the intentines. Fat lubricates.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Groundless

if you go from the SAD to vegan I have no doubt the bowels improve. Want it even better? Eat only meat, fatty delicious meat. Most people experience relief from bloating, gas, strained BM's while on an all carnivore diet.

Vegetation causes lesions in the intentines. Fat lubricates.

I could not agree more. The second I strayed away from my all raw diet and started moving back to flesh ( tho still raw), my health and BM's have became much better. Bloating and gas has also gotten MUCH better.... and the smell....

[Groundless]

There might not be a need for a vegan to measure their fiber intake, but there sure as hell is a need for them to measure just about everything else.

The weighing and measuring for a carnivore:

7:00am this am I took my 14 lb slab of fatty ribeye out of my fridge. I closed my eyes and felt myself as to how hungry I am. I then opened my eyes and cut off a hunk. I then cooked it 3 minutes per side, my beautiful air dried steaks are best when rare. I ate until I was full.

I wont be hungry for at least 12 hours when i will do this again.

Then I was thirsty. So, I drank water until I wasn't.

This is the life of the carnivore.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Groundless

The weighing and measuring for a carnivore:

7:00am this am I took my 14 lb slab of fatty ribeye out of my fridge. I closed my eyes and felt myself as to how hungry I am. I then opened my eyes and cut off a hunk. I then cooked it 3 minutes per side, my beautiful air dried steaks are best when rare. I ate until I was full.

I wont be hungry for at least 12 hours when i will do this again.

Then I was thirsty. So, I drank water until I wasn't.

This is the life of the carnivore.

I just had a 1/3 lb of ribeye blue rare, while reading how a vegan diet "cured" this woman of cancer. Irony..

OMG the rawish chunks of fat were amazing tho. I saved them towards the end, while most people usually cut them off and toss them away. I feel sorry for them. I really need to learn more about keeping meat tho. I wouldn't even know where to begin with air drying 14 pounds of steak in my fridge. Especially considering that 14 pounds of rib eye is $145 buying organic and $300 buying grass fed pasture raised. I'd be pissed if I ruined any of that. best thread jack ever...

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Groundless

The weighing and measuring for a carnivore:

7:00am this am I took my 14 lb slab of fatty ribeye out of my fridge. I closed my eyes and felt myself as to how hungry I am. I then opened my eyes and cut off a hunk. I then cooked it 3 minutes per side, my beautiful air dried steaks are best when rare. I ate until I was full.

I wont be hungry for at least 12 hours when i will do this again.

Then I was thirsty. So, I drank water until I wasn't.

This is the life of the carnivore.

I am a vegan and that is how I live. I just eat while hungry and drink when thirsty. But since I fast I can also go 30 days just drinking water which saves me a lot of time and money. So it is almost God-like to not have to be concerned about food for a month. But then there are breatharians like that guy that is very fit and muscular but who never eats food. YouTube - ~ Jericho ¤ Sunfire ~

That guy is breatharian now but when that video was made, he was fruitarian. It also shows many vegan bodybuilders.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

How she overcame breast cancer with a vegan diet, and ran a triathlon at 47:
Ruth Heidrich: longterm vegan success : OrganicAthlete : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

You cannot expect many on here to watch this since it is 50 minutes but I did and emailed it to my friend who is vegan and runs everday. Marathon runners would want to hear this to give them an edge over competition.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Another perspective on breast cancer that is not just anecdotal:

If you'd watched the video, you'd know it wasn't just anecdotal. She was part of a study published in a scientific journal about reversing breast cancer by a vegan diet with no chemo or radiation.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Groundless

The weighing and measuring for a carnivore:

7:00am this am I took my 14 lb slab of fatty ribeye out of my fridge. I closed my eyes and felt myself as to how hungry I am. I then opened my eyes and cut off a hunk. I then cooked it 3 minutes per side, my beautiful air dried steaks are best when rare. I ate until I was full.

I wont be hungry for at least 12 hours when i will do this again.

Then I was thirsty. So, I drank water until I wasn't.

This is the life of the carnivore.

If it works for you, that's great. But I don't exactly buy that this can be sustained long-term (at least if physical is all that's going on here). Humans don't produce vitamin C like true carnivores do. And I have no idea where you got the idea that our digestive system is like a cats. A cat digestive tract is short and smooth, and ours is very long and rough. Much more comparable to a horse, but most comparable to a bonobos.

I know this wasn't in this particular post, but you said recently that vegetation is rough on the digestive tract. More accurately, it's insoluble (the kind found in grains and somewhat in vegetables) fiber that is, soluble fiber (the kind found in the flesh of fruit) is exactly what the body needs to regulate the absorption of sugars, while not being harsh at all.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

If it works for you, that's great. But I don't exactly buy that this can be sustained long-term (at least if physical is all that's going on here).

And most people don't exactly buy that veganism can be sustained long term. Tho I'm sure I can find just as many people, if not more, that are on that diet and have sustained long term. There isn't exactly a huge amount of long living vegans out there to compare it to. Tho there is a HUGE amount of long living people who consume meat. I'd go with the more proven solution.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

And most people don't exactly buy that veganism can be sustained long term. Tho I'm sure I can find just as many people, if not more, that are on that diet and have sustained long term. There isn't exactly a huge amount of long living vegans out there to compare it to. Tho there is a HUGE amount of long living people who consume meat. I'd go with the more proven solution.

There's certainly not a huge amount of long-lived people who consume only meat, which is my comment was directed at.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

There's certainly not a huge amount of long-lived people who consume only meat, which is my comment was directed at.

Does the Inuit people really need to be brought up again? There are also plenty of western people on meat only diets which are THRIVING, just as your claim that vegans are thriving. If veganism is as great as people make it out to be, then meat ONLY people should be dying off. They are sustaining it LONG TERM just as their vegan counter parts are, which was what your comment was directed at.

[russianrocket]

Oh and, full meat or not, the people that have lived the longest, and the tribes that have survived the longest were always omnivores. Particularly, the majority of centurions being omnivores. Tho that has been mentioned on this forum time and time again, with out one person saying " well, that's not true! Vegans are the healthiest and there for live the longest! Oh and stating that meat only isn't sustainable kinda ruins your arguments for vegan only being sustainable, when for all the date you can show me on vegan diets, can also be shown for meat only.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

There's certainly not a huge amount of long-lived people who consume only meat, which is my comment was directed at.

Not to hijack further, however, your statement is not founded in facts.

Select notes from taubes, Good Calories, Bad Calories
complete notes: Complete Notes to Good Calories, Bad Calories | Higher Thought

• • All-meat diets: pioneered by anthropologist Vilhjalmur Stefansson, who lived with the Inuit for a decade eating nothing but meat (early 1900s)
• o Inuits ate no plant food, they considered vegetables and fruit “not proper human food”
• o controversial in the face of the reigning idea that a healthy diet had to be balanced
• o myth: high-protein diets are bad for the kidneys
•  belief based on early research by Newburgh on rabbits — herbivores that don’t naturally eat animal protein!
• o Stefansson and Anderson were subjects in a closely supervised yearlong experiment
•  only cooked meat, about 2 lbs/day: 79% fat, 19% protein, 2% carb , 2400 calories
•  they remained perfectly healthy: slight weight loss, improved blood pressure, no vitamin or mineral deficiencies
•  calcium is interesting: they only ate a quarter of the calcium usually found in mixed diets, and the acidity of the meat supposedly depletes calcium!
• o why don’t the Inuits get deficiency diseases (scurvy, pellagra, beriberi, rickets, etc)?
•  deficiency diseases only appear on high-carb diets
•  meat contains all the essential amino acids in the optimal proportions, and all the essential vitamins in large quantities (except vitamin C)
•  vitamin C competes with glucose for cellular uptake, but glucose is heavily favored (glucose crowds out vitamin C)
•  the more glucose in the blood, the less C is absorbed into the cells, and the less C reabsorbed by the kidney (so it gets excreted in urine)
•  vitamin C deficiency is associated with metabolic syndrome, so it is likely a disease of civilization
•  so, carbs cause excretion of vitamin C, while inhibiting the use of what is present
• o thus, deficiency diseases are not necessarily caused by insufficient intake, but by wastage caused by refined carbs

In addition, the Inuit, Masai, Samburu nomads, Australian aborigines, Native Americans of the great plains, the Hunzu in Himalayas, and the Kikuyu in Kenya have a vast majority of their nutrition from animals exclusively.

All were in excellent health prior to refined sugars and refined flours being introduced in to the diet.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Not to hijack further, however, your statement is not founded in facts.

Select notes from taubes, Good Calories, Bad Calories
complete notes: Complete Notes to Good Calories, Bad Calories | Higher Thought

• • All-meat diets: pioneered by anthropologist Vilhjalmur Stefansson, who lived with the Inuit for a decade eating nothing but meat (early 1900s)
• o Inuits ate no plant food, they considered vegetables and fruit “not proper human food”
• o controversial in the face of the reigning idea that a healthy diet had to be balanced
• o myth: high-protein diets are bad for the kidneys
•  belief based on early research by Newburgh on rabbits — herbivores that don’t naturally eat animal protein!
• o Stefansson and Anderson were subjects in a closely supervised yearlong experiment
•  only cooked meat, about 2 lbs/day: 79% fat, 19% protein, 2% carb , 2400 calories
•  they remained perfectly healthy: slight weight loss, improved blood pressure, no vitamin or mineral deficiencies
•  calcium is interesting: they only ate a quarter of the calcium usually found in mixed diets, and the acidity of the meat supposedly depletes calcium!
• o why don’t the Inuits get deficiency diseases (scurvy, pellagra, beriberi, rickets, etc)?
•  deficiency diseases only appear on high-carb diets
•  meat contains all the essential amino acids in the optimal proportions, and all the essential vitamins in large quantities (except vitamin C)
•  vitamin C competes with glucose for cellular uptake, but glucose is heavily favored (glucose crowds out vitamin C)
•  the more glucose in the blood, the less C is absorbed into the cells, and the less C reabsorbed by the kidney (so it gets excreted in urine)
•  vitamin C deficiency is associated with metabolic syndrome, so it is likely a disease of civilization
•  so, carbs cause excretion of vitamin C, while inhibiting the use of what is present
• o thus, deficiency diseases are not necessarily caused by insufficient intake, but by wastage caused by refined carbs

In addition, the Inuit, Masai, Samburu nomads, Australian aborigines, Native Americans of the great plains, the Hunzu in Himalayas, and the Kikuyu in Kenya have a vast majority of their nutrition from animals exclusively.

All were in excellent health prior to refined sugars and refined flours being introduced in to the diet.

Interesting. I'm not going to just trust your sources right off the bat as you're obviously biased (not an attack, we all are to some degree), but they're worth looking into. Although Native American of the great plains had corn and vegetables in their diet, as well as berries and apples (although the fruit not in large quantities).

(But as a side note: I would never recommend refined sugar or flour. Refined anything isn't a good idea on any diet, be the original item grains, dairy, meat, fruit or vegetables. The only exception I can think of is green juice, which some people find improves their health due to getting a greater number of nutrients, due to the low-quality of modern food. And yes, I consider juice and oil refined.)

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Interesting. I'm not going to just trust your sources right off the bat as you're obviously biased (not an attack, we all are to some degree), but they're worth looking into.

Of course, in a forum that is supposed to be filled with smart people I expect to be challenged. I would be disappointed if I wasn't.

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

(But as a side note: I would never recommend refined sugar or flour. Refined anything isn't a good idea on any diet, be the original item grains, dairy, meat, fruit or vegetables. The only exception I can think of is green juice, which some people find improves their health due to getting a greater number of nutrients, due to the low-quality of modern food. And yes, I consider juice and oil refined.)

As I have wondered elsewhere I wonder if we would need to even discuss this Vegan / Meat / SAD thing if refined sugars, juices, flour etc were not in our diets. My researched guess is 99.999% of the people would not have the hormonal changes that make people fat.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Groundless

As I have wondered elsewhere I wonder if we would need to even discuss this Vegan / Meat / SAD thing if refined sugars, juices, flour etc were not in our diets. My researched guess is 99.999% of the people would not have the hormonal changes that make people fat.

I definitely think that's a large contributor, although I would include refined fats like oils, butter, and lard, and refined protein, like artificially lean lunch meat or protein powder or soy protein isolates. (In the insulin response BOTH sugar and fat have to be present to create insulin resistance. One or the other doesn't do it with out a pre-existing condition.)

I think that if people stuck to natural ingredients, even if they may not be food we would eat in the wild (like certain grains or dairy--although some people can't tolerate these at all), and even if they may preform minimal processing like grinding or even cooking (as long as it's freshly home-processed, never in a factory) we would see the rate of degenerative diseases and obesity come greatly down. Because natural whole foods usually have elements in them that are synergistic, and cancel out negative influences the food might have.

I think certain people's lifestyles and preferences play into it as well. For example, an endurance athlete would want to eat a very high carb diet. Someone who enjoys feeling very 'grounded' or doesn't want to eat often would want a very high fat diet. Someone who's diet is solely for the purpose of creating a certain physique, like a body builder, would want a very high protein diet (although there are usually other consequences to running mainly off protein that most people would not enjoy).

And in some cases, genetics play into it as well. For example, some people have more amylase, and some people have lactase even into their adult years, and can therefore tolerate starches or dairy if they want to.

And some people like myself have systems that are very sensitive to toxins, and have restrictions that play into that. I personally do best on lots of water, no salt, juicy fruit (lots of melon and citrus-- very limited banana and dried fruit intake), and lots of greens (but not root vegetables). I have no insulin problem as long as I limit fatty fruits and don't under eat. I love it, and you apparently like what you're doing quite a bit too.

I'm curious, do you hunt? Or do you buy grassfed?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

And in some cases, genetics play into it as well. For example, some people have more amylase, and some people have lactase even into their adult years, and can therefore tolerate starches or dairy if they want to.

Our bodies don't need to lactase if they drink raw milk. Most people who are intolerant, usually aren't, if they drink it raw. Same thing goes for calcium absorption.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

I'm curious, do you hunt? Or do you buy grassfed?

I do not hunt. I buy from a local organic farm where I can still get raw milk also. I don't do milk because it is not working for me. I get hamburger (about 80/20) with suet fat ground in. I buy 100-120lb at a time and get it for $4.00 per pound.

There is a raging debate in my carnivore circles as to whether grass fed meat is as healthy as corn fed. Some say all animals are organic. Though when I look at the fat/protein profiles of organic vs corn finished there is a definite difference. As long as I can afford it I hedge my bets on organic/grass fed. Though, I admit, I am a sucker for a prime ribeye that is fatty fat fat. It's freekin delicious.

[secrets0stolen]

Anyone also consider that our natural diets might have something to do with what tastes we are most drawn to? I haven't formed a comprehensive opinion on this, and I definitely believe we can change our tastes, but I really never liked meat, and I don't do well on it. Those who do well on meat seem to really enjoy it as well. I find that interesting, and a bit of evidence for intuitive eating as well.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Groundless

I do not hunt. I buy from a local organic farm where I can still get raw milk also. I don't do milk because it is not working for me. I get hamburger (about 80/20) with suet fat ground in. I buy 100-120lb at a time and get it for $4.00 per pound.

There is a raging debate in my carnivore circles as to whether grass fed meat is as healthy as corn fed. Some say all animals are organic. Though when I look at the fat/protein profiles of organic vs corn finished there is a definite difference. As long as I can afford it I hedge my bets on organic/grass fed. Though, I admit, I am a sucker for a prime ribeye that is fatty fat fat. It's freekin delicious.

That's interesting. When I did eat meat, lean cuts of grass fed or wild always tasted better to me. Maybe that indicates a different metabolism...

(the poultry I ate was wild quail, the fish was wild salmon, and the red meat, which was a rare occurrence was wild deer or grass fed buffalo)

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Does the Inuit people really need to be brought up again? There are also plenty of western people on meat only diets which are THRIVING, just as your claim that vegans are thriving. If veganism is as great as people make it out to be, then meat ONLY people should be dying off. They are sustaining it LONG TERM just as their vegan counter parts are, which was what your comment was directed at.

I've never known someone who does not eat plants. You can find me a link on the Internet that says someone eats only meat and does well, and I will return you with a link that says someone eats only sunlight and air and does well. I know plenty of vegetarians in real life. The inuit do not live particularly long lives. They also eat plant food whenever they can. Again I've never seen an inuit or a person who eats only meat but I have seen vegetarians. Aside from a few anecdotes on the Internet, there's really no evidence that shows a 100% meat diet is superior to a 100% plant diet. You could link Weston Price but he died 62 years ago and he seems more focused against refined grains and refined sugars than plant food in general.

There are a huge amount of people who eat meat and live fairly long lives but there are also people who smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, eat refined grains and refined sugars, take prescription drugs, never exercise, that all live fairly long lives. Eating meat does not make you live longer, it is just another food group you can feel free to skip on because it has no nutrients that cannot be obtained from other sources.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Another perspective on breast cancer that is not just anecdotal:

High fat diet reduces breast cancer

Women with the lowest intake of dietary fat had significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than women with the highest intake of dietary fat.

Women with the highest intake of carbohydrate had a significantly higher incidence of breast cancer than women with the lowest intake of carbohydrate.

Intake of macronutrients and risk of breast cancer. [Lancet. 1996] - PubMed result

So, to reduce breast cancer risk, eat more fat, eat less carbohydrates including fruits but especially anything sugar or flour.

if you go from the SAD to vegan I have no doubt the bowels improve. Want it even better? Eat only meat, fatty delicious meat. Most people experience relief from bloating, gas, strained BM's while on an all carnivore diet.

Vegetation causes lesions in the intentines. Fat lubricates.

So you do know that vegetable oils (pure fat) (which include many nuts and seeds) (with high levels of omega-6) are high in unsaturated fat (both mono and poly) and that animal foods are high in saturated fats. Vegetable oils include corn, olive, peanut, safflower, canola, sesame, soybean and sunflower.

The vegan woman on the video said that she ate a lot of raw foods. I am not saying to use the above but just to point out the fat in plant foods. Avocado is mostly fat.

Most people do eat tons of wheat (lots of crabs) which is refined and not a whole grain like pancakes, waffles, french toast, cream of wheat, bread, pasta, muffins, biscuits, soft and hard pretzels, cakes, cookies, crackers, donuts, bagels, blintzes, lasagna, sandwiches, burgers, pies, pizza and strombolis and these are extremely unhealthy. Probably worse than eating meat.

This is why Dr. Fuhrman's latest book does not call his vegan diet a vegan diet. Amazon.com: Eat For Health: Lose Weight, Keep It Off, Look Younger, Live Longer… He calls it a nutritarian diet meaning nutrient dense that does not include wheat and it is followed by hundreds of doctors. Just read the description on the above link. Also here is Dr Oz introducing Dr Fuhrman to talk about the above book (90 second video).

What does my first pagagraph have to do with what you said above? Nothing. But it is about the study that you quoted. It is good of you to quote studies unlike another that never ever quotes a study or anything other than his opinion. Here is the conclusion of the study mentioned above:

INTERPRETATION: This case-controls study shows that unsaturated fatty acids protect against breast cancer, possibly because intake of these nutrients is closely correlated with a high intake of raw vegetables. The findings also suggest a possible risk in southern European populations, of reliance on a diet largely based on starch.

So a vegan diet can be all pasta and bread. But that is not a nutritarian diet. Vegetables contain a lot less carbs than wheat. So I completely agree with the above study that eating raw vegetables is much healthier than eating wheat.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Groundless

I do not hunt. I buy from a local organic farm where I can still get raw milk also. I don't do milk because it is not working for me. I get hamburger (about 80/20) with suet fat ground in. I buy 100-120lb at a time and get it for $4.00 per pound.

There is a raging debate in my carnivore circles as to whether grass fed meat is as healthy as corn fed. Some say all animals are organic. Though when I look at the fat/protein profiles of organic vs corn finished there is a definite difference. As long as I can afford it I hedge my bets on organic/grass fed. Though, I admit, I am a sucker for a prime ribeye that is fatty fat fat. It's freekin delicious.

Actually all food is organic and so is oil (from oil wells) that comes from dead plants and animals. You learn all about this in organic chemistry. Then in recent years in the US, they defined organically grown and organically raised food. Organically raised means no antibiotics or growth hormones but grass fed. This is much healthier. No link. Just a quote.

Kevin Trudeau says in More Natural Cures Revealed (© 2006)

"The meat [beef] ...is loaded with drugs, growth hormone, as well as feces and urine.... The fact is cows are vegetarian and should not be eating the type of feed given to them. Specifically they should not be eating ground up pigs, horses, goats, and other cows, most of which were sick and diseased and not capable of butchering for human consumption."

He says to eat organc meat instead like he does but says that he feels that the healthiest diet is a raw vegan diet and someday he may switch to that. I do know that grass fed meat has more omega-3 than grain fed. When I was growing up I ate a lot of meat. I would sit down with a half a pound of sliced corn beef in a packet and eat it by the slice.

Also I invented a sandwich by mistake. I told the waitress that I wanted a rye bread sandwich with half of it being egg salad and the other half being chopped liver. But she made it so that each half had half of both of them. But I liked it and got it all the time after that.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Most people do eat tons of wheat (lots of crabs) which is refined and not a whole grain like pancakes, waffles, french toast, cream of wheat, bread, pasta, muffins, biscuits, soft and hard pretzels, cakes, cookies, crackers, donuts, bagels, blintzes, lasagna, sandwiches, burgers, pies, pizza and strombolis and these are extremely unhealthy. Probably worse than eating meat.

Ginkgo, I have looked for common ground to agree upon with you, there hasn't been much, however, in this statement we have complete agreement.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Ginkgo, I have looked for common ground to agree upon with you, there hasn't been much, however, in this statement we have complete agreement.

On my webpage on Losing Weight I mention that the growth hormones in meat are not good for you if you want to lose weight. But organic meat will not make you fat. I think the biggest thing ressponsible for making people fat is the wheat. I mention this on that webpage (below under signature).

There was this really fat guy as a cashier at a drugstore. He did not need a break. There he is doing his work while eating this huge bag of cookies. Sugar and wheat destroy your health.