Eating meat, brains, and marrow made us human

[Groundless]

Eating vegetables and fruit is against millions of year of evolution in our bodies. We are devolving as a result of not eating a diet that is healthy for us.

Early humans used tools much earlier than we thought - life - 11 August 2010 - New Scientist

Eat meat, be healthy.

[RomanHD]

It is the general consensus among anthropologists that switching from veggies/fruits to meat was probably responsible for the rapid development of our brains. Nothing surprising for me, but I already see vegans coming to this thread like "science changes things too often, so we can't trust it." Yeah, it's much better to pick a dogma and stick to it

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by RomanHD

It is the general consensus among anthropologists that switching from veggies/fruits to meat was probably responsible for the rapid development of our brains. Nothing surprising for me, but I already see vegans coming to this thread like "science changes things too often, so we can't trust it." Yeah, it's much better to pick a dogma and stick to it

What I envision is one of them saying " even if it is true, we won't be evolving within a few generations, or we are as evolved as we need to be, or eating meat won't evolve us anymore, or eating veggies won't devolve us so not killing our fellow non humans is worth it"

[Groundless]

I applaud any efforts to get healthy. This is a good quest. Once a vegan gets tired of the long-term deleterious effects of a diet devoid of healthy HDL increasing saturated fats and heart healthy meats that they might consider the reasons. It is my hope as they journey on their path that they figure it out for themselves there is a better way. The problem has been and still is the mainstream has it wrong about animals. I love vegans, they taste great I eat them all the time.

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by Groundless

I love vegans, they taste great I eat them all the time.

Elaborate.

[Groundless]

Most animals I eat are vegetarians, I love them, they are my food.

[RomanHD]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Most animals I eat are vegetarians, I love them, they are my food.

Oh. Okay then.

[Brutha]

It is the general consensus among anthropologists that switching from veggies/fruits to meat was probably responsible for the rapid development of our brains.

And at the moment biologists who actually counted the amount of brains cells say that the human brain is what you would expect for the average primate of our size.
It's not size that matters.

[tlaskcor]

Originally Posted by RomanHD

It is the general consensus among anthropologists that switching from veggies/fruits to meat was probably responsible for the rapid development of our brains. Nothing surprising for me, but I already see vegans coming to this thread like "science changes things too often, so we can't trust it." Yeah, it's much better to pick a dogma and stick to it

Steve's brain seem to work fine on a vegan diet. But if you high protein meat eaters need to feel yours is the only 'right' way, please do. Make yourself happy. I'll continue to believe that there are many ways to acheive optimum health.

We are not in the past. What brought us to this moment doesn't necessarily reflect how we should act now. Veganism and raw veganism are very healing and beautifying ways to eat. Maybe as the years begin to add up, many high protein meat eaters will feel the need to adapt their diet to their new requirements: that of longevity.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by tlaskcor

Steve's brain seem to work fine on a vegan diet.

Debatable for some.

[Groundless]

Any diet that does not kick in the insulin reponse will increase health as compared to SAD (this means avoid any high carby foods). If the vegan is eating M&M's and other such carbage their health will be more than likely poor.

As far as longevity, you walked into this one. One of the most common traits of centurians is that they eat a much larger amount of sat fat and animal proteins than people who die before 100yo.

And to clarify, the proper diet is not high protein, it is high fat. The protein is adequate while the fat is high. If you remove carbs fat needs to replace it.

I am in agreement with this, if you mix high fat with high carbohydrate from refined sugars and some fruits, you will have less health.

[aelle]

I have no problem acknowledging the importance meat may have had in past survival and evolution. And rapes by invading soldiers allowed us to enrich the gene pool, which benefits the species. So? How does this apply to our world?

[Groundless]

It is not an application to the world question it is a question of how the body is meant to be fed optimally.

Grains, Fruit and vegetables are sub-optimal for human nutrition.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Groundless

It is not an application to the world question it is a question of how the body is meant to be fed optimally.

Grains, Fruit and vegetables are sub-optimal for human nutrition.

I suspect that for truly optimal nutrition, I must eat you.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by tlaskcor

Steve's brain seem to work fine on a vegan diet. But if you high protein meat eaters need to feel yours is the only 'right' way, please do. Make yourself happy. I'll continue to believe that there are many ways to acheive optimum health.

We are not in the past. What brought us to this moment doesn't necessarily reflect how we should act now. Veganism and raw veganism are very healing and beautifying ways to eat. Maybe as the years begin to add up, many high protein meat eaters will feel the need to adapt their diet to their new requirements: that of longevity.

I don't think you understand the point of this thread. The EVOLUTION of humans is supposed to be depended on meat consumption. NO WHERE in this thread did someone suggest that a vegans brain doesn't work as well as an omnivore tho that's debatable. And really, for a vegan to say what you just said, is just laughable in it's hypocrisy lol.

There are vegan and vegetarian movements. How often do you see "meat eaters" going out to convince vegetarians they should eat meat? When they flaunt it, sure a "meat eater" will come in and give his opinion. But vegans usually search for a place to give their opinion. So for you to say anything about "meat eaters" feeling ours is the only right way.. well yeah. "Meat eaters" are just eating the way our ancestors for all of recorded history have ate. We don't EXCLUDE anything. You guys came in and decided to say that OUR way of eating is completely wrong, and yours is the right way. You wonder why "meat eaters" are fighting back?

Many "meat eaters" have lived LONG LONG lives, which includes almost all of the centurions, as was mentioned. Where are all of your centurions? I went the way of not eating meat, and once I felt like crap for way to long, I went right back to it. So I can guarantee that MOST "meat eaters" will continue to eat meat. If the evolution of our brains really was because of meat, then we will slowly see the vegan generations getting dumber and dumber. There have been a lot more "meat eaters" living till VERY old ages, then there have vegans. There has been a longer recorded history of "meat eaters" THRIVING, and living long. Vegans? Not really. Not a single vegan society on the face of the planet has ever thrived.

Also, I really don't understand where this whole " high protein meat eaters" thing came to play. Talk about a misnomer. Everyone is focusing on those people. Most high protein eaters eat very unhealthy in almost all aspects of their diet, not just the meat. Or they are body builders, and would laugh in vegans faces when told they should not eat meat. So in conclusion, stop calling us meat eaters. Or the infamous "carnivore" moniker that vegans so nicely decided to attach to omnivores, to make us look like savage animals. We are OMNIVORES, plane and simple. We don't focus on any one food group, so don't label us under one food group, thank you very much .

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I suspect that for truly optimal nutrition, I must eat you.

I surly hope not. If so, please knock me out cold and make sure I don't wake up. It's the nice thing to do.

:-)

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Groundless

And to clarify, the proper diet is not high protein, it is high fat. The protein is adequate while the fat is high.

So many people miss that. When tribal hunters killed a large animal the best parts were the fat and organ meat, where most of the nutrients are. If they were able to eat their fill of that, the muscle meat (what most people consider meat now) would go to the dogs.

[LostMyMap]

I have my own theory about this, although I don't have all the science yet to back it up. I put together a couple of things I learned about.

Years ago, I learned about the 'out of Africa' theory that showed charts of how humans probably spread throughout the world. When you look at it, one thing becomes clear. Humans nearly always stay near the ocean, or other large water bodies (lakes, rivers).

Second, the studies of diets of a group of Japanese people that have long lives shows that their meat consumption is all from the water.

Third, it is well known how nutritious some fishes are for us. A big slab of grilled salmon is awesome!

So my theory, not withstanding any cow bones they find in Africa, is that we are 'supposed' to eat fish in our diets. Now I love a good steak as much as anyone, but I am interested in eating more fish as a meat source. It makes sense that we evolved as we spread, and we evolved to fit the food that was available. And the meat part of that includes fish.

In another life I would go back to school and do a thesis on this.

[Savage]

You can skip all the junk science simply by noticing that you get the best results from eating whatever you believe will give you the best results.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Eating vegetables and fruit is against millions of year of evolution in our bodies. We are devolving as a result of not eating a diet that is healthy for us.

Early humans used tools much earlier than we thought - life - 11 August 2010 - New Scientist

Eat meat, be healthy.

Now, I probably shouldn't be getting into this post because I probably won't gain anything from it, but I will anyway. If this was true, then a human would have a digestive system like a bear not like a chimpanzee. A bear still eats 80-90% of it's diet as plants even though it is more capable of eating meat than a human so plants must not be so bad. A chimpanzee, like a human, has a more herbivorous body and eats close to only plant food, about 97%. It is best to eat the right diet for our digestive system rather than basing it on what may be true based on some archaelogical evidence. Also chimpanzees and elephants use tools that does not mean they eat large amounts of meat. Elephants eat no meat and they also have a 5kg brain.

Originally Posted by Groundless

It is not an application to the world question it is a question of how the body is meant to be fed optimally.

Grains, Fruit and vegetables are sub-optimal for human nutrition.

Grains are not optimal because they havent been around for so long(like dairy beyond infancy) but they are not so bad either as long as they aren't refined. Fruits and vegetables(and nuts and seeds and legumes since they are all fruit also) provide everything a human needs from diet. A human does not need to eat meat. I think you'll find prehistoric humans ate meat more for survival and do not make the assumption that humans have been living in the snow for 1 million years.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

You can skip all the junk science simply by noticing that you get the best results from eating whatever you believe will give you the best results.

I disagree. Let's try an experiement. Your foods will be Doritos, M&M's, donuts, and fruit juice. Eat that for 1 month as an experiment. While eating these items convince yourself these are giving you life sustenance. Let's see what happens.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by Beuford

It is best to eat the right diet for our digestive system rather than basing it on what may be true based on some archaelogical evidence.

On this we can agree. Our bodies are designed to be carnivores (not omnivores and certainly not herbavores) eating only meat with a build in mechanism to survive periods of eating poor nutrition fruits and vegetables.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Groundless

On this we can agree. Our bodies are designed to be carnivores (not omnivores and certainly not herbavores) eating only meat with a build in mechanism to survive periods of eating poor nutrition fruits and vegetables.

What are you talking about? We are nothing like carnivores. Cats are carnivores. Humans are not. I'd like to see your evidence of our carnivorous body. Show me the anatomy comparison between a human, a chimpanzee and a lion. Then we will see how much of a carnivore a human is.

[Groundless]

Our stomachs pass meat much more quickly than vegetables. Meat is dissolved quickly by the hydrochloric acid your stomach is optimised to produce over 75% of its surface area. Vegetation stimulates the production of certain enzymes which are not quickly made and come from about 25%. The HCl is easy to turn on and turn off, the enzyme systems are not easy, and it is one of the reasons the mixed diet person experiences hunger- the stomach is busy making more digestive juice.

NO human can 'easily digest' vegetation, we have the guts of a carnivore- you simply cannot eat wild, raw plant life and live on it, without serious digestive and health problems. We have retained enough of the 4-6 million years ago, pre-hominid primate's digestive equipment (a small partial area of enzyme production in the stomach, and an appendix) to be able to practice modified partial omnivory -at a price-. It is properly a survival mechanism which compensated for the problems of depending on the ready availability of prey animals. The modern diet is simply bad, and an all meat one is very good- for everyone.

Our (human) digestive systems are nearly identical, both in form and relative length- to cats, whose intestines are only 1/8 shorter than ours. We do have an appendix- which obligate carnivores lack. The appendix has no function in the digestion of meat, and no carnivore has one. Our appendix is a reduced form of the cecumit stores putrefactive bacteria during times of all meat, and is necessary when vegetation is re-introduced to allow the bacteria to recolonise the colon and break down the vegetable residues (fibre) so they can be voided. People who have had their appendixes out have ongoing digestive problems, requiring careful attention to the diet- no problems on all-meat- but arise on an attempt to reintroduce vegetation after a period of abstinence.

The all-important appendix is- in most people- in constant use, and is the one thing we have which allows us to follow the diet we consider 'normal', and is an excellent survival tool even for those of us on the all-meat diet. It is a fully developed organ, and is not in any danger of atrophy in any human group. In an emergency requiring the eating of vegetation, you really would not want to be knocked down by an inability to poo. Eating of seeds and other small, hard indigestible things which can lodge in and obstruct the opening into the appendix, can produce a situation leading to inflammation and very serious consequences. Real omnivores have a much larger, more actively functional cecum, and lack a true appendix. Feces resulting from eating vegetation is composed of 80+% dead bacteria, whereas on all-meat it is nearly sterile, merely discarded body wastes (and unused nutrients).

There are no significant differences between humans and cats. Domestic cats are used in place of human cadavers in many college human anatomy classes because of their virtually identical internal organs.

Meat exits the stomach after about one hour as a completely absorbable liquid and is gone in about 40 cm of the small intestine. Vegetation leaves the stomach after about three-four hours and 95% makes it through to the colon. If most of the vegetation is not cooked, it is not absorbable.

General/opportunistic omnivores and herbivores are very different from carnivores- they have adapted to extracting nourishment from raw vegetation in various ways and have the dentition and other attributes necessary- we do not. Our teeth are shaped and evolved along the restrictions of our branch of mammals- the insectivores (modern primate insectivore survivor: The tree shrew). Our mouths and teeth have adapted to the requirements of speech and the use of knives.

[Groundless]

Let's try a comparison of dogs, humans and sheep.

We are far from herbivores or fruit eating animals.

Comparison of Man's Digestive Tract

[Beuford]

A cat's intestines is 3-4x the length of it's body. A human's is 10x the length of the body. Our stomach acid is much weaker than carnivores so you have to eat your meat fresh, cooked or stored in a freezer. If you find carrion and eat it you will get sick and possibly die because you do not have the strong acid to kill the bacteria. Our teeth are not sharp and were never sharp. So you can copy and paste a few paragraphs from "A bear on a nocarb diet" but you do not prove that a human should eat a carnivorous diet because it simply does not match up with anatomy.

[Groundless]

More on Teeth:

Our teeth are pure carnivore, they have a continuous enamel coat, are quite sharp, erupt once and do not grow or get replaced just as is the norm for animal of insectivore lineage. They are utterly unlike the complex teeth of herbivores and omnivores- whose teeth grow throughout life.

We also have hands so comparing tusks for holding prey to us is silly.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Let's try a comparison of dogs, humans and sheep.

We are far from herbivores or fruit eating animals.

Comparison of Man's Digestive Tract

Sheep are grass eaters. Dogs are mostly meat eaters. Being inbetween does not make us omnivores as grass eating herbivores can have multiple stomachs and really long intestines but fruit eating ones do not need that. Compare us to another great ape instead of a sheep.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Groundless

More on Teeth:

Our teeth are pure carnivore, they have a continuous enamel coat, are quite sharp, erupt once and do not grow or get replaced just as is the norm for animal of insectivore lineage. They are utterly unlike the complex teeth of herbivores and omnivores- whose teeth grow throughout life.

We also have hands so comparing tusks for holding prey to us is silly.

Humans have flat teeth designed for chewing plant food. Carnivores do not chew their food very much and have sharp molars and longer sharper canines and smaller incisors. They also have much larger mouth openings and much larger tongues. They have larger tongues because they need them to cool down by panting but humans perspire which is more of a herbivore thing. They also cannot suck up water so they need the large tongue to drink. If you want, type in bear teeth or cat teeth into google images then type in human teeth. We also have a jaw designed for chewing plant food.

Alligators teeth are constantly replaced throughout their life. Alligators are carnivores.

[Groundless]

Beuford, you obviously have not read what was written. A pity.

I wish you the best in your health quest.

In case someone is at least a little intrigued why a vegan diet is not working for them:
Failure to Thrive--Six Vegetarian Problem Scenarios