Quitting alcohol.

[Dave Plaza]

Ok, so where to begin?!? I drink far too much On a weekend I probably go through 2 bottles of JD. I don't drink in the week as I train most days, and I need to stay focused for work, but when the weekend comes a calling... it's party time, I just use the beers to take a mind vacation.

I just got back from a holiday in Santorini in Greece, and I didn't drink once, why? Because there was sh$t loads to do and discover, there wasn't time to drink... It was the last thing on my mind in that enviroment... My home life is much different!

So, back to the chase... I am a serious drinker, it really is a problem for me, and I wish i could control it... I'm looking for somebody who feels the same and wants to embark on a similar no drinking booze experiment, and we can buddy up

Maybe this sounds a little like I should contact AA... Trust me, in my position, as a regular drinker, this is not an option.

My hearts on the line. Thanks for listening

Dave

[joelr]

I would recommend NA narcotics anon over AA. Why is it not an option? It is anonymous.

It's hard to quit substances without some kind of change or replacement.
You might need to train more on weekends or add something to your training that can be done on weekends. Martial arts, MMA, Jui-Jitsu, Boxing, Yoga, Tai-Chi, bicycle riding, mountain biking, distance running, cutting/diet phase until you have a 6-pack (abs not beer), whatever...

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

Ok, so where to begin?!? I drink far too much On a weekend I probably go through 2 bottles of JD. I don't drink in the week as I train most days, and I need to stay focused for work, but when the weekend comes a calling... it's party time, I just use the beers to take a mind vacation.

I just got back from a holiday in Santorini in Greece, and I didn't drink once, why? Because there was sh$t loads to do and discover, there wasn't time to drink... It was the last thing on my mind in that enviroment... My home life is much different!

So, back to the chase... I am a serious drinker, it really is a problem for me, and I wish i could control it... I'm looking for somebody who feels the same and wants to embark on a similar no drinking booze experiment, and we can buddy up

Maybe this sounds a little like I should contact AA... Trust me, in my position, as a regular drinker, this is not an option.

My hearts on the line. Thanks for listening

Dave

The fact that you admit that you have a problem is very positive. I'd say you're half way there. Good luck with whatever approach you decide to take. Different things work for different people.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

Ok, so where to begin?!? I drink far too much On a weekend I probably go through 2 bottles of JD. I don't drink in the week as I train most days, and I need to stay focused for work, but when the weekend comes a calling... it's party time, I just use the beers to take a mind vacation.

I just got back from a holiday in Santorini in Greece, and I didn't drink once, why? Because there was sh$t loads to do and discover, there wasn't time to drink... It was the last thing on my mind in that enviroment... My home life is much different!

So, back to the chase... I am a serious drinker, it really is a problem for me, and I wish i could control it... I'm looking for somebody who feels the same and wants to embark on a similar no drinking booze experiment, and we can buddy up

Maybe this sounds a little like I should contact AA... Trust me, in my position, as a regular drinker, this is not an option.

My hearts on the line. Thanks for listening

Dave

and my heart goes out to you for having the courage to admit it

it's not going to be easy
my nephew had to move 60 miles away to get away from the crowd he was hanging around with
then he went to an inpatient tx facility which helped him get clean for good


so there are options

and you are worth it

[ginkgo]

Sorry I do not understand what you are asking. You are saying that it is a problem. You are asking for a no-drinking buddy. I never drank so I can drink tomorrow and then stop with you. Actually online you can say anything. So I have all the exact problems as you so when do we stop? Is this permanently or just for a week?

What is the booze experiment? To see if you cannot drink for 2 days. Did not understand why you did not want to go to AA. Example: I am having trouble parking my car. It is because I am a Democrat. What do the 2 have to do with each other? I do not know. Do you think that people post things on this forum after drinking too much? AA are the experts on this. AAA will not be able to help you since they are experts on automobles not alcohol.

[anghel]

I think it was 4 or 3 years ago when I always drink (influenced by friends ). Friday night is party night. But last year I decided not to drink. I realized when I was not yet an alcohol addict, I had a flatter stomach. I still want to drink beer but I make sure I'll only drink if there's a special occasion like birthdays or other celebrations.

[Dave Plaza]

Thanks to everyone who offered support. To recap and to make the situation clearer, please allow me to expalin some more. I live in the UK, the majority of people, especially the younger generation have a drink problem, this is he culture which I inherited. From a young age we are programmed to work hard all week and then on Friday and Saturday nights get as wasted as you possibly can, this is what we do, this is sadly the norm for most... So do I consider myself to have a problem, yes and no, it's really difficult to spot my problem in my surroundings because, I'm just like most people. There is also a huge drug problem in the UK, if you are from the UK reading this and you disagree, then that is probably because you don't notice it until you have been involved in it. If you went to the town centre on a Friday/Saturday night then I would guess that 80% of people are there to get as wasted as possible and probably half of them are also taking another substance. Fortunately other substances are not a problem for me, it's just the alcohol, which isn't a problem in the sense that it makes me angry, that it affects my working life or causes problems in my personal life, in fact in one sense I am quite a happy drinker.

However I do feel that it does hold me back some-what, and that i could achieve much more if I didn't drink. I am very interested in my spirituality, but I feel that i can not explore this path fully until I am leading a much healthier lifestyle. Not drinking is easy until the weekend... the usual comments from my work colleagues on Friday will be, "what are you drinking tonight?", and It's not unusual for me to recieve a picture message to my phone of some bizarre bottle of beer that someone has found in the local supermarket and are going to sample when they get home...

This is my puzzle, why do I drink? I just got back from holiday and didn't drink once there... Too much stuff to do, so I guess it relates to boredom, and I think the main reason is escape...

Anyways my apologies for ramblimg. I guess asking for somebody to buddy up was wrong, that is not what I need... but it sure feels good to speak here about this.

It was a breeze for me to quit the smokes about 8 years ago, however this feels different as I realised that the smokes gave me nothing, I feel that my weekend booze bath at least offers me some escape from this life for a short while. But I also see that when it's over I'm right back at square one, making no progress.

I guess what i would like to do with this post is to discuss alcohol. I would like to hear from people who have quit or who maybe would like to work out the pros and cons of drinking in the hope to break down why we bother to do it.

My drinking has been at this level for all my adult life, every weekend, get drunk, like I said before, this is my culture, this is what I was born into, this is what surrounds me. Should I go to AA? Well, I guess I am alcoholic to a certain degree, just like a large proportion of my nation. However alcohol has never caused problems in my life, I've never lost a job through it, abused someone through it, etc etc. If I need to focus on something then I know not to drink, I don't wake in the morning and think "man, I need a beer", far from it...

Anyways, thanks for listeneing, and like I said, it would be good to hear from other drinkers.

Thanks

Dave

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by anghel

I realized when I was not yet an alcohol addict, I had a flatter stomach. I still want to drink beer but I make sure I'll only drink if there's a special occasion like birthdays or other celebrations.

Yep, It sure would be good to get that flat stomach back. I train all week, but you can only get so far when you drink at the weekends.

Anyway, this is day 1 of no beer, I expect an easy ride until Friday... maybe I shouldn't say that, it's like i'm programming myself to feel misery at the weekend... I can't wait to not drink this weekend

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Sorry I do not understand what you are asking. You are saying that it is a problem. You are asking for a no-drinking buddy. I never drank so I can drink tomorrow and then stop with you. Actually online you can say anything. So I have all the exact problems as you so when do we stop? Is this permanently or just for a week?

What is the booze experiment? To see if you cannot drink for 2 days. Did not understand why you did not want to go to AA. Example: I am having trouble parking my car. It is because I am a Democrat. What do the 2 have to do with each other? I do not know. Do you think that people post things on this forum after drinking too much? AA are the experts on this. AAA will not be able to help you since they are experts on automobles not alcohol.

I doubt you would understand my friend, luckily for you, you are a no drinker... anyways thanks for the input.

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by joelr

I would recommend NA narcotics anon over AA. Why is it not an option? It is anonymous.

It's hard to quit substances without some kind of change or replacement.
You might need to train more on weekends or add something to your training that can be done on weekends. Martial arts, MMA, Jui-Jitsu, Boxing, Yoga, Tai-Chi, bicycle riding, mountain biking, distance running, cutting/diet phase until you have a 6-pack (abs not beer), whatever...

Thanks Joelr, some good advice. I already train martial arts all week. I definately need to fix up some weekend activity... I'm gonna get the wifey to teach me Spanish, and thinking of getting into windsurfing as I really loved that when I tried a couple of years back

[Dave Plaza]

So why not go to AA?

I just thought about this. OK, maybe this is where I will end up, it is an option. I'm not sure how big this problem is, I've never seriously tried to quit before, I didn't drink on holiday, didn't find that a problem. Maybe this will be easy. I sure hope I don't have to go to AA, I kind of feel embaressed thinking about that. I don't want to give me time away to that If I can do this alone. So yep, it's an option, I agree.

[jameskinkade]

Allen Carr's Easyway to Control Alcohol.

/Thread

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by jameskinkade

Allen Carr's Easyway to Control Alcohol.

/Thread

Hmmm, thanks for that. I actually used Allens book to quit smoking, the guys a legend. Have you read this? I'm going to give it a shot.

Cheers

[lucybrown]

A lot of being drunk is to do with being frightened all the time.

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by lucybrown

A lot of being drunk is to do with being frightened all the time.

Would you care to elaborate on this Lucy? I don't think I feel frightened. For me, it's about relaxation, especially when I've had a high pressured week at work, beer helps me to switch off. Some people do yoga, or go running, I go drinking.

[lucybrown]

For young people drink cuts the edge off the fear of failing at life before they even start living.

There are problems with starting to drink. The first being it’s horrible. Alcohol is nasty stuff; your throat naturally tries to reject it, it burns, it tastes horrid. You have to force yourself to drink, like smoking.

To begin with you don’t drink for the thousands of subtle notes in a vintage, you drink to get drunk. Kids are very straightforward about drinking. Nobody ever picked up a drink thinking it would make their day worse.

Drunkenness is the key to companionship, belonging, sex, laughter and an intensely good time, and that is the driving ambition. It’s not the drink, it’s that great bonding, hugging, risk-everything, timeless happiness that makes everything else worth it.

When the state looks at the pandemic of bingeing in young people, they invariably see it as a problem, because from the sober standpoint it is. And they ascribe this to any number of social deficiencies — the breakdown of families, the lack of alternative entertainment, the absence of work, the ugliness of the environment, the cheapness of drink, the culture of inebriation. And all or any of those things may be true, but they’re not the truth.

[Dave Plaza]

Originally Posted by lucybrown

For young people drink cuts the edge off the fear of failing at life before they even start living.

Maybe for some, it was never that case for me. When I was younger if anything, I had a more invincible feel to my life, I wasn't worried about the future, there was plenty of time to worry about that later down the line. I got into drink because everybody else did, not because of fear, it was just the way it was.

Originally Posted by lucybrown

There are problems with starting to drink. The first being it’s horrible. Alcohol is nasty stuff; your throat naturally tries to reject it, it burns, it tastes horrid. You have to force yourself to drink, like smoking.

To begin with you don’t drink for the thousands of subtle notes in a vintage, you drink to get drunk.

I can attest to that, I forced myself to enjoy Whisky, Red wine etc

Originally Posted by lucybrown

Nobody ever picked up a drink thinking it would make their day worse.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Originally Posted by lucybrown

Drunkenness is the key to companionship, belonging, sex, laughter and an intensely good time, and that is the driving ambition. It’s not the drink, it’s that great bonding, hugging, risk-everything, timeless happiness that makes everything else worth it.

You seem to be making a strong argument to keep drinking. Hmmm, but I don't think drunkenness is the key to any of those things. I mean, I had all those things (apart from the sex) when I was a kid, long before I'd ever touched a drink. Some of the best parties I ever went to was when I was a kid, I had immense fun, lots of laughter, and nobody needed any drink then.

Originally Posted by lucybrown

When the state looks at the pandemic of bingeing in young people, they invariably see it as a problem, because from the sober standpoint it is. And they ascribe this to any number of social deficiencies — the breakdown of families, the lack of alternative entertainment, the absence of work, the ugliness of the environment, the cheapness of drink, the culture of inebriation. And all or any of those things may be true, but they’re not the truth.

So what is the truth?

Thanks for the input by the way.

[lucybrown]

One in four hospital beds are occupied by someone with a drink-related or exacerbated condition. Almost all domestic violence and violent crime is committed with the help of a drink. In fact it’s difficult to find a social ill from unwanted pregnancy to sexually transmitted diseases that doesn’t have “just the one” at its heart. And of course, drink kills you. It takes years off your life.

The one thing you should always bear in mind about drink is that all drunks are different.

To say that humanity has a problem with drink and would be better off not doing it is like saying it has a problem with sex or the weather. It just is the way we are, it’s what we do, it’s our recreational weather.

But for some people it seems to be sunnier than for others…and that’s the truth

[anghel]

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

Yep, It sure would be good to get that flat stomach back. I train all week, but you can only get so far when you drink at the weekends.

Really want to get it back. It's hard to get rid of belly fats (beer belly). I can't go to a gym so I have to do my exercise "removing the belly fat mode" at home.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by lucybrown

Drunkenness is the key to companionship, belonging, sex, laughter and an intensely good time, and that is the driving ambition. It’s not the drink, it’s that great bonding, hugging, risk-everything, timeless happiness that makes everything else worth it.

But many alcoholics drink alone. Some even start out drinking by themselves.

I don't find drunkenness to help with those things you mention. Those come from finding folks you feel a connection with and from having a socially developed personality. Drinking makes me into a drunk fool who can't hold a candle to the sober me as far as having a good time with companions.

My experience with drugs was a very non-social experience in that I preferred to be by myself. The desire for finding happiness from companionship went away.

[lucybrown]

Originally Posted by lucybrown

The one thing you should always bear in mind about drink is that all drunks are different.

Drink expanded me and reduced everything else.
I’d just woven drink into the fabric of who I was and I had to unpick it.

[royster]

Hi Dave. No preaching from me, just a few things that will definitely help.

As an alcohlic in recovery...almost 3 years...in A.A. I can share the two key things that got me sober and KEPT me sober.

1.) Brutal honesty when dealing with that little dialogue voice in my mind..."just a 6-pack! Then I'll stop." I no longer think of the way alcohol could make me feel or how it would enhance the following three or four hours. I honestly remember the AFTERMATH of that "just one six pack"...which, that SAME LITLE VOICE told me another six pack was needed...and it was never pretty. Waking up in your own piss, dry-heaving because your body is sick...oh sure, that's just GRAND fun. For 4 maybe 5 hours of fun, I had to pay with two days sickness, apologising to people one way or another, and face the life-maintanence that was neglected so I could "have fun". The spiritual neglect is also brutal.

2.) Developing a trusting relationship with my guide spirits and "Higher Power"...they have helped in reminding me that alcohol reduced my life to a tangled mess.

If you can find the courage to get into A.A., the second "A" stands for "Anonymous", and it's so no one HAS to know. You will find any decent, practicing A.A. member will respect your wishes for no one to know.

Blessings and shared spirit to you!

[Dave Plaza]

Royster, thanks for sharing your experience on this matter.

Originally Posted by royster

As an alcohlic in recovery...almost 3 years...in A.A.

Well done by the way!


For all of my adult life, I have never gone for more than 2 weeks without alcohol, this is a natural occurance for the multitude of people where I live. For the last 7/8 months I now only drink on a Friday evening, and a Saturday evening, sometimes on just one of these nights. When I do drink however my aim is to get drunk as much until I basically pass out, always in my own bed however, although I never remember getting into it.

So do I consider myself an alcoholic? This is hard to see in my surroundings but I would say to some degree I am. Is it a problem I am an alcoholic? To an extent, no. It doesn't seem to have much affect on my life, I hold down a good job, I have a loving wife, I never argue when drunk or cause any trouble, and nobody where I am from frowns upon my drinking becuase its kind of accepted as a done thing by most.

Originally Posted by royster

The spiritual neglect is also brutal.

I resonate with this, I've began to realise this, this is why I aim to quit.

Originally Posted by royster

If you can find the courage to get into A.A., the second "A" stands for "Anonymous", and it's so no one HAS to know. You will find any decent, practicing A.A. member will respect your wishes for no one to know.

Well, I'm not sure how big my problem is, I've never tried to quit before... Does this sound like the little voice tricking me? But seriously, I've never tried, I've only just come to realise I may have a problem, it's pretty hard to wake up to the truth when most people you know sleep in the same bed.

As for the AA, I know about them and what they do... Some things about them don't really sit with the way I feel mentally and spiritually. Now I don't really want to disrespect or invalidate this organisation, as I'm sure that they do a pretty good job for a lot of people. But, at the beginning of your message you mentioned that you have been in recovery for almost 3 years. I don't like this word much, it's kind of implying that you are still an alcoholic, like you have to use will power everyday to stop drinking, well why can't you just stop being an alcoholic? I don't get this part... But there's no need to answer that, I'm not looking for these answers, and I certainly don't want to get into a debate about AA.

Originally Posted by royster

Blessings and shared spirit to you!

And to you too my friend, thanks.

[lucybrown]

Over the centuries the reforming, straight-living, good-book-and-cocoa social improvers may have changed individual lives, but they’ve had comfortingly little effect on the drinking habits of society and specifically on the young. They drink because they can. And they are very, very good at it.

Dave, it's not the culture - it's you. x

[htasker]

You mentioned your wife in one of your posts. What is her position in all of this? I agree...its easy to blame it on the culture whether UK, US or whatever. I do it quite often. At the end of the day its still your decision. Don't give your power away to it. The easiest way to stop drinking is to physically remove yourself from the booze...dump it from your house...don't go to the bar, etc...and let go of your hard drinking friends.

[royster]

...you are still an alcoholic, like you have to use will power everyday to stop drinking, well why can't you just stop being an alcoholic?

You can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but you can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber.

Good golly, Dave, the WORST thing I could do is preach, and I have no intention of doing so. I offer the facts only. Thank you for your kind response.
Alcohol literally mutates the cells and nervous system over time to crave and accomodate the chemical. Tobacco does the same thing. In essence, this re-wiring of the brain is what you're arguing with. A person can stop drinking, but what science has found is that a small amount of alcohol triggers a chemical reaction that makes it impossible to stop drinking...thus your "pass out" goal. So, yes, we actually DO have to keep it arrested by daily focus. The problem you'll need to come to grips with is that even if you stop drinking for years, the damage to the system does not heal or go away: it remains at the levels of resistance and tolerance as when you initially quit. "Once an alocholic, always an alcoholic"...this is just scientific fact. It is in accepting this fact we move toward keeping ourselves healthy.

Truly spiritual people will be surprised to discover that A.A.'s prinicples are not only compatable with any beleif, but in adhering to the principles, you tap into a stream of unlimited spiritual growth, if you want it.

I offer my essay about the subject...feel free to do with it as you please, or not read it at all.
Alcoholism-it's more than you think

[joelr]

Originally Posted by Dave Plaza

So do I consider myself an alcoholic? This is hard to see in my surroundings but I would say to some degree I am. Is it a problem I am an alcoholic? To an extent, no. It doesn't seem to have much affect on my life, I hold down a good job, I have a loving wife, I never argue when drunk or cause any trouble, and nobody where I am from frowns upon my drinking becuase its kind of accepted as a done thing by most.

You might want to consider that even getting really drunk 1x per week can be really hazardous health wise over a long term period. Plus it already HAS been long term. Unfortunately alcohol and nicotine are the most toxic drugs to your body. Hard drugs like heroin obviously cause more overdoses but the drug itself isn't toxic (that drug converts to morphine in the liver, a drug that millions of pain-sufferers spend their whole lives on without toxic effects).

It can be tricky trying to figure out if drinking is a problem when you only drink 1 or 2x weekly. Personally there was a time I was using oxycontin 2x week and I felt like it was under control, but it wasn't. I would not have been able to quit at that time.
Before that, for many months, Tues night and ONLY tues night was the 1 night I would use. But I was masking up major breakup depression.

You might be able to stop on your own however. I was also using Ativan/Lorazepam 3-4x weekly at one point right after a divorce (very addictive drug for anxiety, a stronger version of Valium) but I was able to slow down and then stop on my own. I dodged that bullet at least.

Try and quit, see what happens. If it's impossible then consider a meeting instead of Fri night drinking.

[royster]

This info via e-mail:

According to this study, they damaged the livers of rats with alcohol,
and then managed to heal the damage using just saturated fats, even
while still continuing to give them alcohol. Meaning, saturated fats
are a good idea for anyone who has had or currently has an alcohol problem.

Saturated fatty acids, palm oil and medium chain triglycerides, reverse inflammatory and fibrotic changes in rat liver despite continued ethanol administration. | www.greenmedinfo.com

[Holiday]

Hey Dave-

I'm a rigorous weekend drinker as well, just started a 30 day no drinking trial, want to join?

Kevin

[marc lee]

Hi Dave,

one of the tricks AA alcohilics use to stop drinking is:
Only stop drinking for this day, only this day, tomorrow is another day.

The easiest way is to change your social social situation. A major catalysator to start drinking are peers.

When you are in a group of non addictive drinkers and they start drinking by toasting say: iam an alcoholic. Nobody will ask you its a tabu topic and like Mick Jagger said: "truth is stranger than fiction".

At a party you can drink something in a opaquely glass, so its hidden what you drink.
In my eyes it seems that lying is more accepted in our society than explaining the truth.

By the way iam not an alcoholic, but i learned something by trying to stop drinking alcohol in a alcohol embossed society.


Marc