Eating tofu doesn't make you a good person

[AjaTrinidad]

While on the quest to becoming healthy, eco-conscious people, some people become vegetarian, vegan, or even raw foodists. While this is wonderful, and I'm sure is giving them a great amount of confidence as they become more aware of what they're putting into their bodies, there are those who use their new eating habits as an excuse to attack people who do not eat as they do.

I recently had a client who was telling me about how she's tired of being put down by people for having the occasional fast food meal.

It reminded me of when I worked at a particular job a few years ago. My co-workers were all vegan, meditating, doing-yoga-every-morning folk, and would criticize me whenever I happened to have McDonalds for lunch (my eating habits weren't the best back then, I can admit.) Whenever they criticized me, as annoying as it was, it never really affected how I felt about myself. I remember thinking, "It's bad that I eat McDonalds and drink a Coke every now and again, but it's ok that you smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol almost every day, lash out at people all day, have the occasional blunt, lie, and steal from the company." (none of which I did)

While people are extremely focused on their physical being, they sometimes forget that eating right is nice, but if you're constantly treating people poorly, and exerting negativity, it doesn't make you better than the fast food eater.

It's very exciting to start eating well, but remember to not overly-criticize those who don't. They will (or will not) get to where you are on their own time. Share the information that you know with them, but don't get into the habit of judging or putting them down for their food choices. Let them find their way.

Feel free to discuss...

Aja

[Angela]

Don't forget, Aja, you're writing on a forum where the owner called people who eat eggs "nazi's"! Some people feel that over-the-top criticism is perfectly appropriate in this area -- to wake people up, get a reaction, etc. There have been quite a few very heated discussions about that here!

Oh, by the way, welcome to the forums!

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by Angela

Don't forget, Aja, you're writing on a forum where the owner called people who eat eggs "nazi's"!

Interesting

Originally Posted by Angela

Oh, by the way, welcome to the forums!

Thanks!!

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by AjaTrinidad

It's very exciting to start eating well, but remember to not overly-criticize those who don't.
Feel free to discuss...

Aja

That's a great point. There's enough blame to go around though. When I decided to go vegan (for health and spiritual purposes --I believe people can eat animals if they feel inclined and that doesn't make them bad people), I chose to keep it to myself mostly because of the lame comments I'd get from meat eaters. "Hey look here's 'Midasgirl' eating grass yet again" or "why don't you just get over yourself and eat real food'? Not to mention the fact that the minute you mention being vegan everybody becomes an expert as to how you are not getting enough protein, forgetting they're likely the 17th person that's told you that that day.

The people I knew that were vegan/vegetarian before I became one never preached it to me, other than my raw foodist friend, but she does raw-foodism for a living. So of course she preaches it.

On the other hand, even before I became a vegan, I'd probably have made an annoying comment if I saw you go to McDeath. I make such comments right now about milk --its disgusting, I've no idea why anybody would want to drink it.

[afewpotholes]

I love the heading of this thread, it gave me my first laugh of the day! This reminds me of when some of my friends were on a "save the world" campaign phase telling me that I should have more compassion and that people didn't deserve to suffer around the world. My first comment was "how about people that are suffering in your immediate vicinity right now?"

[Andrew Gubb]

Nothing makes you good or bad. You just are, and you are also just infinite love. To get metaphysical about it

Despite the fact that nothing can really "justify" an attack on someone, whether it's for no reason or whether there is an excuse in criticism, the hypocrisy does make it a little more absurd. (Mind you when parents hit their children and tell them it's out of love, I'm not sure we could get any more absurd. This is related because the same mindset makes us criticise each other harshly, it's the same in a different degree).

Hitler was a vegetarian........................................ .

(I am too btw though I'm not a fan of Mr. Hitler)

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

On the other hand, even before I became a vegan, I'd probably have made an annoying comment if I saw you go to McDeath.

Heeeey! Leave the old me alone!

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I make such comments right now about milk --its disgusting, I've no idea why anybody would want to drink it.

I used to drink a lot of milk over 5 years ago, and I never knew saw anything wrong with it. Interestingly enough, around the time I became more educated about health and food, my body rejected milk, even if I was only trying to drink it with a big slice of birthday cake.

For me, because I grew up in an environment where I wasn't exposed to the importance of eating well, I had to learn those things on my own. One step at a time. I'm sure you're not one of those people (from how you speak in your comment), but there are some who just really rip into people who don't eat the way they do...and honestly, some people just haven't been exposed to a different way. So (at least for me) coming at them in a very judgmental and harsh way can just make them close their ears to what you say, and they won't even want to learn.

[secrets0stolen]

While I do agree, and find it annoying when people turn diet into religion (in anyway but a joke), it does go both ways. I get criticized all the time for being vegan, routinely told that I'm "following false prophets" "worshiping animals" "not getting enough protein" 'eat some real food'. Yada yada yada.

I've actually been reading about the "fat acceptance" movement recently. One of the basic premises is "So what if they are(which they aren't necessarily) eating themselves to an early grave? It doesn't give us the right to discriminate, judge, etc." I think a similar premise could be applied to the McMeal. Sure, it's not healthy, but it's not anybody elses business either! Just as my being vegan really isn't anybody elses business (although try telling the fundies I'm around that!)

The exception is places like this forum, where we basically signed up for others getting into our business, haha!

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by afewpotholes

I love the heading of this thread, it gave me my first laugh of the day!

I made you laaaugh..nah nah nah nah nah!

Originally Posted by afewpotholes

This reminds me of when some of my friends were on a "save the world" campaign phase telling me that I should have more compassion and that people didn't deserve to suffer around the world. My first comment was "how about people that are suffering in your immediate vicinity right now?"

Exactly. When some people become passionate about a certain way of life, they have a tendency to lose themselves in it. Years ago, when I ate a lot McDeath (as MidasGirl so blatantly calls it ) and would get death threats for it (not really, but gee!), I would always think, "BUT YOU SMOKE A TRILLION CIGARETTES A DAY!!"

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

While I do agree, and find it annoying when people turn diet into religion (in anyway but a joke), it does go both ways. I get criticized all the time for being vegan, routinely told that I'm "following false prophets" "worshiping animals" "not getting enough protein" 'eat some real food'. Yada yada yada.

Thanks for pointing out that side of it as well.

[Weena]

Hi Aja!

i totally agree with your post. I'm vegetarian but i do this for myself. Other people can do whatever they want (my husband eats meat occasionally). Being vegetarian/vegan to feel holier than others is plain silly. I feel better in my body and mind by avoiding meat but i don't expect others to follow me.
And at the end of the day i never say no to a nice glass of red and a smoke on my terrace (i have kids so i don't ever smoke inside). So I'm not in a position to criticise anyone. Even if i were the holiest person of all i still wouldn't waste time telling people junk food is bad, or sugar is bad or whatever. The thing is: being criticised would reinforce me in my habits, to show people I'm the only one allowed control over my life.

My bottom line is: i won't annoy people about their way of life and i expect the same from them. It's a two way street.

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by Weena

Hi Aja!

Hi!!!!!

Originally Posted by Weena

And at the end of the day i never say no to a nice glass of red and a smoke on my terrace (i have kids so i don't ever smoke inside). So I'm not in a position to criticise anyone.

Good for you! You know, If I had a terrace, maybe I'd sit out there and have a McNugget, dipped in an individually packaged thing of barbecue sauce. But alas, I do not have a terrace.

[ginkgo]

Well let us turn up the volume a little. A vegan goes into a McDonald's and shoots everyone dead that is eating a burger since they are not vegans. He will still go to jail. People are not suffering because they eat meat. They are suffering because of their ego and that is why they treat others badly. A simple saying sums up all human behavior. "Misery loves company."

These people that you mentioned are in great emotional pain and that is why they say that. Actually that is how the majority of people are in modern society. For millions of years humans lived in villages and they got along great. Can you name a vegetarian that killed many non-vegetarians?

He was a vegetarian but not a "strict vegetarian" like Michael Jackson said that he was. If you cannot guess what vegetarian killed many non-vegetarians, it was Adolf Hitler. He killed Jews, homosexuals, mentally challenged people and Gypsies since he wanted to make the world a better place.

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

People are not suffering because they eat meat. They are suffering because of their ego and that is why they treat others badly.

Yes! Say it!!

Oh, wait, you already said it.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by AjaTrinidad

While people are extremely focused on their physical being, they sometimes forget that eating right is nice, but if you're constantly treating people poorly, and exerting negativity, it doesn't make you better than the fast food eater.

"It is not what people put into their mouths that makes them unclean. It is what comes out of their mouths that makes them unclean. " --Jesus
Still true to this day.

[Weena]

Originally Posted by Dharma

"It is not what people put into their mouths that makes them unclean. It is what comes out of their mouths that makes them unclean. " --Jesus
Still true to this day.

Lovely quote!

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Well let us turn up the volume a little. A vegan goes into a McDonald's and shoots everyone dead that is eating a burger since they are not vegans. He will still go to jail. People are not suffering because they eat meat. They are suffering because of their ego and that is why they treat others badly. A simple saying sums up all human behavior. "Misery loves company."

These people that you mentioned are in great emotional pain and that is why they say that. Actually that is how the majority of people are in modern society. For millions of years humans lived in villages and they got along great. Can you name a vegetarian that killed many non-vegetarians?

He was a vegetarian but not a "strict vegetarian" like Michael Jackson said that he was. If you cannot guess what vegetarian killed many non-vegetarians, it was Adolf Hitler. He killed Jews, homosexuals, mentally challenged people and Gypsies since he wanted to make the world a better place.

Sure I can.
Pol Pot. Hell, he was a VEGAN.
Charles Manson. also vegan AND an animal rights advocate.
Volkert Van der Graaf . also killed people under the guise of animal rights.
Genghis Khan he killed many more people then Hitler.

oh and hitler? sure you can say he's not a vegetarian. But his plan of the perfect world, was not only the elimination of all the people mentioned, but the elimination of SPECIFICALLY meat eaters.
1941 Hitler said,

"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian."

On top of that, he was a BIG proponent of animal welfare laws during his reign.
Animal welfare in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think he was one of the first animal activists. He did the annoying thing that most meat eaters hate, which is to be constantly told what animals go through at slaughter houses. Hitler LOVED telling his meat eating guest graphically detailed stories, to disgust them away from meat.

so get off your high horse and get to some reading.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by AjaTrinidad

I used to drink a lot of milk over 5 years ago, and I never knew saw anything wrong with it. Interestingly enough, around the time I became more educated about health and food, my body rejected milk, even if I was only trying to drink it with a big slice of birthday cake.

You know, the mind is a powerful thing. MANY say that your body will start rejecting something just because your mind tells it to. It is very interesting enough, and shows the exact reason why most people who post on here about trying meat/dairy for the first time in years, felt extremely sick. So who's right? Your body, who was ok with drinking milk, or your mind who decided it was no longer ok to drink milk, and there for told your body to reject it?

I've seen it written, that one of the only reasons most food effects people the way it does, is because of how our mind perceives it. Most people who get sick by eating certain foods, usually KNOW they will get sick. The people who don't get sick, are the ones that don't think they will.

Hell, look at all the stories of people who smoke and drink till they are 100, and NEVER worried about it, and the people who die at 50, worrying their entire lives about it. Your a clear case of that. You told yourself milk is bad for you, and now it is. Your mind is doing to your body, what those vegans did to your mind. Accosting yourself into feeling bad about something.

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Your a clear case of that. You told yourself milk is bad for you, and now it is. Your mind is doing to your body, what those vegans did to your mind. Accosting yourself into feeling bad about something.

I absolutely agree with you. In fact, I should've been clear and said my mind rejected it, not my body. It's no coincidence that I was perfectly fine with drinking milk for all those years, and only when I "decided" that it wasn't the best thing I could drink, my "body" reacted accordingly. Great point.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Sure I can.
Pol Pot. Hell, he was a VEGAN.
Charles Manson. also vegan AND an animal rights advocate.
Volkert Van der Graaf . also killed people under the guise of animal rights.
Genghis Khan he killed many more people then Hitler.

oh and hitler? sure you can say he's not a vegetarian. But his plan of the perfect world, was not only the elimination of all the people mentioned, but the elimination of SPECIFICALLY meat eaters.
1941 Hitler said,

On top of that, he was a BIG proponent of animal welfare laws during his reign.
Animal welfare in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think he was one of the first animal activists. He did the annoying thing that most meat eaters hate, which is to be constantly told what animals go through at slaughter houses. Hitler LOVED telling his meat eating guest graphically detailed stories, to disgust them away from meat.

so get off your high horse and get to some reading.

In conclusion, vegetarians are nazis.

I think vegan/meat eating discussions top the charts as the ones that inspire the n-card faster than you can say kosher!

[AjaTrinidad]

Just to emphasize the original point of this thread. Eating right and being super conscious of what goes in your body is good, but doesn't warrant attacks (or criticism) of those who don't do so. Not only because it's not right to judge people that way, but because you probably have other areas in which you aren't so conscious, just as most people do.

We don't have to pull the Fascist card.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

In conclusion, vegetarians are nazis.

I think vegan/meat eating discussions top the charts as the ones that inspire the n-card faster than you can say kosher!

As a Jew, that was the last thing on my mind as being the point of my post. Can't say that for the other posts, but mind was not. The only reason I even brought up Hitler, was because Gingko did, and tried to claim false information about him. Now, the way most animal activists these days are, I'd say they are pretty close to Nazi like. Tho it is ironic that Hitler was one of the first to make animal rights a mainstream topic.

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Tho it is ironic that Hitler was one of the first to make animal rights a mainstream topic.

I never even knew that.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by AjaTrinidad

I never even knew that.

Well, I mean animal rights has been around for awhile, but it was usually contained to small amounts of the population. India is a whole other topic, because that was part of their religion.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Angela

There have been quite a few very heated discussions about that here!

Never argue with fools; from a distance, people can't tell the difference.

[Angelique]

I don't preach about being vegetarian. Whenever I do mention it it's because I'm being asked about it or I'm politely rejecting food. Sometimes their reactions are funny...They tell me things like, "Oh, I don't eat red meat" or "I only eat meat like three times a week." And I never even asked or hinted about their food preferences. One person was inspired to quit eating meat, although I'm not sure if she quit for good.

I grew up with a lot of family and friends that were and are vegetarians so I don't receive critical remarks about it. It's funny too because I think I ended up influencing the former vegetarians to revert back to a more veg. lifestyle, at least around me. This is great for my social eating!

[Angelique]

Originally Posted by Angela

Don't forget, Aja, you're writing on a forum where the owner called people who eat eggs "nazi's"! Some people feel that over-the-top criticism is perfectly appropriate in this area -- to wake people up, get a reaction, etc. There have been quite a few very heated discussions about that here!

Oh, by the way, welcome to the forums!

I never saw this post before...or that video. I'm feeling very inclined to go vegan starting today.

[pyrogen]

AjaTrinidad, you might enjoy my ritual.

The Skeptical Mystic: Ritual: The McDonalds Mass

I'm definitely for people eating in a way that is ethical and healthy, whatever way that is. There can be a certain amount of elitism and assumption of underlying financial privilege with many of these diets, though - they aren't available to everyone. If you live in a remote area and use food stamps, chances are that you can't get the raw nuts that are the. protein staple of raw diet, in which case meat and fish may actually be the healthier option.

Also, many people seem to use their diet as a way to feel "special". Specialton 'tude (that was a blog entry, too) tends to be thick at vegan or raw potlucks. Strip the movement of its spiritual/political trappings and package it as a medical or weight loss diet (a la gluten free or atkins) and suddenly people will almost be apologetic about that lifestyle. Not many people feel "special" about their illness or wanting to lose 50 pounds.

This is an interesting topic to me because I'm really convinced that "specialness" is an ego trap on the PD path... and many of us (me included) battle with feeling "special".

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by AjaTrinidad

Just to emphasize the original point of this thread. Eating right and being super conscious of what goes in your body is good, but doesn't warrant attacks (or criticism) of those who don't do so.(

In case you didn't see it, "eating right" is mind-made judgement just as much as milk is bad for me. What does your body (emotions too) do when you play with "eating right"? (hint: same as the milk except there's much more denial on top of it so it's harder to notice.)

[AjaTrinidad]

Originally Posted by Dharma

In case you didn't see it, "eating right" is mind-made judgement just as much as milk is bad for me. What does your body (emotions too) do when you play with "eating right"? (hint: same as the milk except there's much more denial on top of it so it's harder to notice.)

I don't understand what you're trying to say.