Vegan lives to 95 in perfect health, far outshone meat eating parents in longetivity

[Andrew Gubb]

Anyone doubting vegan longetivity should check this.

Donald Watson | Times Online Obituary

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Anyone doubting vegan longetivity should check this.

Donald Watson | Times Online Obituary

My father is almost 93. He is a meat eater and has outlive his parents by thirty years. I think it is not possible to accurately say one type of diet is responsible for the increased longevity using a sample of one.

It is a considerable achievement to have been the person credited with founding the vegetarian movement.

[Andrew Gubb]

Well, the vegan movement. And yeah, it's not a statistical sample, but at least it disproves ridiculous claims that veganism is a dangerous diet.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Well, the vegan movement. And yeah, it's not a statistical sample, but at least it disproves ridiculous claims that veganism is a dangerous diet.

It still doesn't prove it. There are people out there living LONG lives with extreme and dangerous diets. Just because ONE persons body seems to have been perfectly suited for it, does NOT disprove ANY claims. HOw many times do meat eaters on here have to hear from the vegans, that OUR diets are dangerous diets?

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Well, the vegan movement. And yeah, it's not a statistical sample, but at least it disproves ridiculous claims that veganism is a dangerous diet.

There are people that smoke for decades that live to a very old age. That doesn't prove that smoking isn't dangerous.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

It still doesn't prove it. There are people out there living LONG lives with extreme and dangerous diets. Just because ONE persons body seems to have been perfectly suited for it, does NOT disprove ANY claims. HOw many times do meat eaters on here have to hear from the vegans, that OUR diets are dangerous diets?

You sound angry, mate. Who cares if I think your diet is dangerous? You're still entitled to your opinion as am I.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Elrond

There are people that smoke for decades that live to a very old age. That doesn't prove that smoking isn't dangerous.

It does prove you won't just drop dead from smoking, which some people seem to assume will happen if you drop meat.

Sure, this bit of info won't stand up in a debate. Lucky I don't care about debating

[rachelar]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

You sound angry, mate. Who cares if I think your diet is dangerous? You're still entitled to your opinion as am I.

He doesn't seem angry to me- he seems to be making a good point. If I posted an article of a meat-eater who lived to a ripe old age, or, conversely, an article about a vegan dying at a young age, and claimed that that one single article disproved anything to do with the vegan diet I'd be digitally lynched.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by rachelar

He doesn't seem angry to me- he seems to be making a good point. If I posted an article of a meat-eater who lived to a ripe old age, or, conversely, an article about a vegan dying at a young age, and claimed that that one single article disproved anything to do with the vegan diet I'd be digitally lynched.

people tend to use the whole " calm down" or " you seem angry" when they can't disprove the point they are debating against. Because what tends to happen is, the person they are talking to DOES become angry and loses their calm, and then ends up losing the debate to emotions. He tends to lose debated due to emotions a lot tho, so I think he's just trying to turn the tables.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by rachelar

He doesn't seem angry to me- he seems to be making a good point. If I posted an article of a meat-eater who lived to a ripe old age, or, conversely, an article about a vegan dying at a young age, and claimed that that one single article disproved anything to do with the vegan diet I'd be digitally lynched.

It's not the same, seeing as meat eating is the standard paradigm in this world (even if it isn't in this forum). That's why posting this article actually matters. Not that it matters hugely much.

I'm sorry if you get attacked for your beliefs though.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

people tend to use the whole " calm down" or " you seem angry" when they can't disprove the point they are debating against. Because what tends to happen is, the person they are talking to DOES become angry and loses their calm, and then ends up losing the debate to emotions. He tends to lose debated due to emotions a lot tho, so I think he's just trying to turn the tables.

No, I don't manipulate people like that.

Now you sound hostile, accusing me of manipulating

I don't care to win anything, really. Like I said to rachelar, I'm sorry if you get attacked for your beliefs on this forum. But I'm not attacking you and you don't need to get defensive.

I was just observing your emotions really. I'm an empath. By the way, it's perfectly OK to have emotions - I won't use them as a way of discrediting what you're saying

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

No, I don't manipulate people like that.

Now you sound hostile, accusing me of manipulating

I don't care to win anything, really. Like I said to rachelar, I'm sorry if you get attacked for your beliefs on this forum. But I'm not attacking you and you don't need to get defensive.

I was just observing your emotions really. I'm an empath. By the way, it's perfectly OK to have emotions - I won't use them as a way of discrediting what you're saying

I never accused you of doing it as a conscious act. Most people do things with out ever realizing that there is a reason for doing it. People with infallible belief systems such as yours, DO tend to use a lot of defense mechanisms. Which includes trying to point out someone elses supposed defense mechanism. You can't READ emotions, no matter how empathetic you are. Having emotions is perfectly fine, but making up emotions for someone over the internet does not always work out so great, because emotions are not readable. I mean, unless it's to the point of " omg I'm so angry. I hate you"

[rachelar]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I'm sorry if you get attacked for your beliefs though.

Oh don't worry about that. My diet is a choice I make and if you can't take a bit of criticism and debate about it then you're obviously uncomfortable with your choice.

Now to extend that healthy attitude to the rest of my life...

This thread seems to have evolved into a discussion about discussions, taking out any emotions we might be projecting onto one another it's quite interesting.

[Plays With Life]

I can feel the love.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I can feel the love.

Lmao!


Really, what I think the OP was trying to demonstrate with this thread is a simple point: going vegan does not cause death (which someone tried to argue in a previous thread).

Add on top of that, you have some people expecting judgment, and it deteriorates into a conversation about conversations

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Lmao!


Really, what I think the OP was trying to demonstrate with this thread is a simple point: going vegan does not cause death (which someone tried to argue in a previous thread).

Add on top of that, you have some people expecting judgment, and it deteriorates into a conversation about conversations

Almost anything that can cause death, can still not cause death. He didn't demonstrate anything but one person living very well on a vegan diet.

lol there
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

Almost anything that can cause death, can still not cause death. He didn't demonstrate anything but one person living very well on a vegan diet.

lol there
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html

Do you really want me to go over that article? It's riddled with unscientific fear mongering.
Babies do best on breast milk, I have yet to hear of a 3+ individual who has died from a calorically sufficient, whole foods based vegan diet.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Do you really want me to go over that article? It's riddled with unscientific fear mongering.
Babies do best on breast milk, I have yet to hear of a 3+ individual who has died from a calorically sufficient, whole foods based vegan diet.

I was trying to be as unscientific as the OP. As neither one of our posts demonstrated ANYTHING.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I was trying to be as unscientific as the OP. As neither one of our posts demonstrated ANYTHING.

Oh, well at least that makes *a lot* more sense than someone actually trying to use that article as an argument against veganism, lol.

[zenrealized]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Do you really want me to go over that article? It's riddled with unscientific fear mongering.
Babies do best on breast milk, I have yet to hear of a 3+ individual who has died from a calorically sufficient, whole foods based vegan diet.

Yeah they might not be as tall though. Sure they aren't dieing but they need to grow, dammit. There are plenty of three year olds eating nothing but peanut butter in Africa and they aren't exactly thriving. They are alive but the diet isn't optimal.

Humans are the dominant life form and I'll tell you why eating animals is not immoral. The reason is because we kill some form of life on a consistent basis. This non-intelligent life isn't really dynamic enough to have a thought process like a human does.

If you kill a bug all you are doing is killing a program that is designed to handle an action that makes higher life forms able to survive. The higher up the chain you go the less likely you should be to kill a certain animal for food. Dolphins are dynamic enough to avoid killing. Cows are dumb. If you look at a cow and you look at a buffalo you can tell they are designed as easy targets for predators.

Every food system is a pyramid.

Algae
minnow
dolphin
shark
whale

The whale is designed to be so huge that the predators attack it less and that it's able to accomplish its job of keeping algae in check by eating huge quantity's of it.

The same system happened with the dinosaurs. Brontosaurus was what a whale was. Raptor was the human. Shark would be like a lion. Just like in our system we don't eat Lions even though we could. The raptor didn't eat Tyrannosaurus either.

The human is the super predator. Even more so than the raptor. The evidence of this is that if you were to throw 100 million dinosaurs on the earth right now we would wipe them out in like a month.

Cows are needed to eat grass. It keeps things in check so the world is not some overgrown rain forest. The cow eats the grass and then we can use the better tasting cow as food. It's as simple as that. The cow acts as a biological transfer process to make grass and other non edible things edible.

[Andrew Brunelle]

This is anecdotal evidence at best. Just because one vegan lived to be 95 does not mean that all vegans will live that long. Just the ones that are well-equipped to live that long, like someone else posted how heavy smokers sometimes live well into the 90s with no health problems, as do heavy meat eaters live to be over 100. What does that say about your article? That he is, like any other person living into the 90s, nothing that special. By the way, how did he die if he was in such perfect health? You don't see Jack Lalane dropping dead and he's over 95 now. And he does not eat a vegan diet.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

You can't READ emotions, no matter how empathetic you are.

Yes I can... a psychic reading it's called

My POV is not infallible. I admit I've been too attached to it but now I'm putting some energy into loosening up.

Hey RR, you are loved!

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

lol there
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck.html

Bwahaha. What idiots. Feeding a baby SOY milk? What, to avoid the horrible tortures involved in factory farm breast feeding?

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Really, what I think the OP was trying to demonstrate with this thread is a simple point: going vegan does not cause death (which someone tried to argue in a previous thread).

Yup. It also amused me that he was the leader of the vegan movement. That was pretty cool

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by rachelar

Oh don't worry about that. My diet is a choice I make and if you can't take a bit of criticism and debate about it then you're obviously uncomfortable with your choice.

Now to extend that healthy attitude to the rest of my life...

This thread seems to have evolved into a discussion about discussions, taking out any emotions we might be projecting onto one another it's quite interesting.

[joelr]

Veganism may well have extended his life some. Or he's just one of those dudes who lives long.
An ex-girlfriend's grandfather "Sandy" died at home when he was 94, he ate meat, smoked etc..
In a related story, the book "Tornado - 84 minutes 94 lives" about the 1953 F5 tornado, has his destroyed house was on the cover.

Have any studies been done on longevity and these type of diets?

For one thing veganism or vegetarianism itself is NOT intrinsically healthy. Eating healthy is healthy. You can eat a vegan version of healthy eating or you can eat a sugary, carb loaded, diabetes getting, muscle shrinking, obese looking, version of vegan/vegetarian.

[SheldonCooper]

It could just be a mutation.

My mother's family tree is full of people that ate meat and lasted to 100+. Anecdotal evidence is just like that, completely worthless and dumb. Not to mention that life expectancy statistically has been better for children than parents anyway, all thanks to our modern, safer, anti-natural living. If you want to live longer than your parents, it is most likely already done.


Anyway, 95 whole years of not eating meat? No thanks. I'd rather live 70 but enjoying my ommivore diet. It is not how long you live it is how well you live it.

More so, I think the last thing this world needs is humans living for longer. The second last thing the world needs is probably humans that need a whole acre per couple to grow their food.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by SheldonCooper

It could just be a mutation.

My mother's family tree is full of people that ate meat and lasted to 100+. Anecdotal evidence is just like that, completely worthless and dumb. Not to mention that life expectancy statistically has been better for children than parents anyway, all thanks to our modern, safer, anti-natural living. If you want to live longer than your parents, it is most likely already done.


Anyway, 95 whole years of not eating meat? No thanks. I'd rather live 70 but enjoying my ommivore diet. It is not how long you live it is how well you live it.

More so, I think the last thing this world needs is humans living for longer. The second last thing the world needs is probably humans that need a whole acre per couple to grow their food.

Eating meat doesn't matter for everyone. nor does it qualify living well. You can eat ribs and steak and pork every night, and "live well" but feel like crap for those 70 years. This guy might have lived a lot more "well" then any meat eater either one of us knows. It's all about what you consider important in life. If meat really THAT important to you, that if you didn't have it, you wouldn't be living well? THAT is not the life I'd want to live.

[supertom]

thanks for the article andrew, i really enjoyed it.

[Andrew Gubb]

^Welcome. Well written wasn't it?