Most Vegetarians Are Unhealthy - Importance Of Dietary Protein.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

So you will vouch for the fact that he looks in real life as he does in his pictures?

Yeah, he looks pretty much the same in his pics as in real life.

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Matt Furey uses 10 year old pictures in his ads and on his sites. He's about 40 pounds heavier now.

I've heard about that.

About your experiences I'd say some people can handle vegetarianism well (I'm one of them as long as I'm wheat free) and others not so well. Those who say "everyone will fail as a vegan or vegetarian" or "everyone will succeed as a vegan or vegetarian" are delusional. In my experience black people seem to have more success as vegans and predictably Nordic types less success (though I'm of Northern European stock and I do pretty well).

[moviestar]

I love animals, that's why I eat them.

[escapee]

It's possible to raise a family vegan. Check out Raw Food

I would probably do short term raw vegan diet occasionally as an adult for cleasing/spiritual purpose, but there is just no way i would attempt a raw vegan diet for raising the the children , esp baby. If you were to ask me why ? my answer is unnecessary "elevetad risk" of malnutrition and stunt development. ( high risk and no return ). That's just my opinion .


BBC NEWS | Health | Children 'harmed' by vegan diets

http://www.mercola.com/blog/2005/feb...iets_hurt_kids

To prove the point, scientists divided more than 500 African children (who had been raised on starchy, low-nutrition diets based on corn and beans) into four groups. One group's diet went unchanged, two groups received a cup of milk or an oil supplement daily and a fourth consumed 2-ounce supplements of meat every day.

As you might expect, the health of children who were given oil, milk and, to a greater degree, meat prospered dramatically, according to the study. Among the benefits:

Improved performance on intelligence tests.
Better social skills and more active.
Elimination of vitamin B12 deficiency.
This study is just another great example why eating a strictly vegetarian or vegan diet isn't healthy for most people. As this study, like others, found, low vitamin B12 levels can be a big problem for those who avoid meat and animal byproducts.

Also, many people who are not biochemically suited to vegetarianism, decide to lean that way for health or spiritual reasons. Even though some people can do quite well with only small amounts of protein, others need plenty of protein in order to function optimally. That's a good reason to learn more about better eating based your body's unique metabolic type.

Psychology Today: Vegan Diet Bad for Baby

Vitamin B-12 deficiency slows brain development. A deficiency in just one nutrient can halt the development of a baby's brain. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recently reported two cases of severe B12 deficiency in toddlers who were breast-fed by vegan mothers.

The children cited in the CDC report were able to recover somewhat from malnutrition after being hospitalized and fed a supplemented diet. However, a year after treatment, both children had lingering symptoms.

It's always about risk and the associated return. I just cant handle if the worst case happens. ( the same in stock market, if you cannot handle the emotional stress of having to see your stock value reduced by 50% , dont invest )

[babuji]

We're all very much focused on the physical benefits of a non-vegetarian diet, however, you should realize that eating meat offers no spiritual benefits.

I don't think anyone here has talked about the spiritual benefits of a vegetarian diet. Keeping away from flesh has great increased my ability to meditate and keep my mind clear of unwanted thoughts (less disturbance). Not to mention I am able to sit still without any movement/pain in meditation for nearly an hour.. (which I'm practicing to increase)

If you're a believer in the idea that our purpose while on earth should be God-realization, then it's pretty obvious by experimentation with your own body that certain foods inhibit further stages of meditation.

We can talk and debate all we want on the physical benefits.. to which I would agree that eating meat would probably give you a more muscular body.. but that's all meaningless if you realize that YOU are NOT the physical body.. but YOU are actually the soul within that body...

Ultimately, my view is that you should decide what diet is best for you based on your ultimate goal..

If your goal is to have a great physique.. then by all means go for the meat diet..

If your goal is to realize your true potential (soul).. then a vegetarian diet is ideal..

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by babuji

We're all very much focused on the physical benefits of a non-vegetarian diet, however, you should realize that eating meat offers no spiritual benefits.

I don't think anyone here has talked about the spiritual benefits of a vegetarian diet. Keeping away from flesh has great increased my ability to meditate and keep my mind clear of unwanted thoughts (less disturbance). Not to mention I am able to sit still without any movement/pain in meditation for nearly an hour.. (which I'm practicing to increase)

If you're a believer in the idea that our purpose while on earth should be God-realization, then it's pretty obvious by experimentation with your own body that certain foods inhibit further stages of meditation.

We can talk and debate all we want on the physical benefits.. to which I would agree that eating meat would probably give you a more muscular body.. but that's all meaningless if you realize that YOU are NOT the physical body.. but YOU are actually the soul within that body...

Ultimately, my view is that you should decide what diet is best for you based on your ultimate goal..

If your goal is to have a great physique.. then by all means go for the meat diet..

If your goal is to realize your true potential (soul).. then a vegetarian diet is ideal..

Very well put....except that I know plenty of vegetarians (myself included) with great physiques. I'm a lot more accepting of differing opinions, but I know plenty of boxers and MMA fighters that are vegetarians or vegans and if you suggested that they were "unhealthy" you might be tempted to reconsider once you regained consciousness. If you eat well, exercise and take care of yourself the presence or absence of meat alone will not make you healthy or unhealthy. When I was a meat eater I was 208 pounds and in great shape. Now I'm 188 in great shape. Unless its of critical importance to fight as a heavyweight, I see no detriment from a vegetarian diet. Obviously if your physical goal is bulk the meat might be necessary, but otherwise suggesting that vegetarians are categorically unhealthy is absurd. There's plenty of other upsides to a vegetarian diet--I have more energy, for one. I also have a lot more flexibility at my lower weight and suffer fewer muscle strains and similar injuries. Again, your millage may vary but I know quite a few former meat eaters with similar experiences. The notion that everyone who eliminates meat from their diet automatically defaults to eating nothing but french fries and tater tots borders on ridiculous. I wouldn't go so far as suggest that you can't eat meat and be healthy, but I'd also suggest that on balance the average vegetarian is likely to have a higher degree of awareness about what he or she puts into their body than the average meat eater.

I'd agree with the assertion that vegetarianism, veganism or, for that matter, a meat-eating diet isn't for everyone. What I wouldn't agree with is trying to extrapolate your personal experience to some sort of universal truth. Personally, trying to rationalize your own experience in this manner is not only intellectually dishonest but a huge waste of time.

If I remember correctly our associate Mr. Pavlina did a blog entry about health studies that suggested that it was pretty much pointless to base your health decisions on them. In addition to other considerations, "everyone has an agenda". I'd extend this to include dietary matters. It doesn't matter how much research and study you do on the subject when you've already made up your mind one way or the other going in.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-about-health/

[escapee]

If I remember correctly our associate Mr. Pavlina did a blog entry about health studies that suggested that it was pretty much pointless to base your health decisions on them. In addition to other considerations, "everyone has an agenda". I'd extend this to include dietary matters. It doesn't matter how much research and study you do on the subject when you've already made up your mind one way or the other going in.

It really depends on what kind study, a good research should always be re-produceable under control situation. I believe there isnt much to dispute about (yea , there is agenda for good health) when dozen of studies done on different countries show that trans fat, human refined sugar and sedentary lifestyle are a few key causes of modern chronic diseases. This is something that even meat eaters and vegans cant dispute.

[Narz]

escapee, obviously starving kids fed only beans and corn are gonna benefit from animal products.

just as kids fed nothing but chicken would benefit if you gave them some green vegetables in addition.

[Margaret]

I dont eat meat because 1) I dont like it and 2) I can't abide the cruelty in the poultry and cattle market. I have not eaten meat for over ten years. I substitute soy protien and nuts. My diet also includes supplements for those nutrients I cannot get in a vegan diet. I am sixty years old, slim and very healthy. I often wonder why a person feels free to slaughter and eat a calf when they would protest the killing and consumption of puppies. Whether one is vegan or not, healthy eating depends on making intelligent choices.

[escapee]

escapee, obviously starving kids fed only beans and corn are gonna benefit from animal products.

just as kids fed nothing but chicken would benefit if you gave them some green vegetables in addition.

That's why i choose to feed the kids with traditional/evolutionary omnivores diet. Whether the kids choose to be vegetarian/vegan when they have grown up is a matter of personal freedom.

I often wonder why a person feels free to slaughter and eat a calf when they would protest the killing and consumption of puppies.

Imho, that's undisputable in ethical standpoint , but then if you fall ill suddenly due to deficiency issue. Please for your health sake change the diet as quick as possible. Sometimes you would never know how deficient your diet is until the problem strikes . ( Of course the same can be said on pure meat eaters who consume no animal organ and barely eat vegetables )

You would be surprised to find that Natural Health Gurus Ate Animal Foods

[Angela]

Originally Posted by babuji

eating meat offers no spiritual benefits.

Oh, please. Do you believe your focus and ability to meditate effectively or become more attuned with your spirit is greater than Mr. Conan's? Just look at him. Do you realize how much focus, how much alignment with spirit it takes to build a "temple" like his?

[Narz]

Looks like you got your first groupie Conan the Barbarian.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by moviestar

I love animals, that's why I eat them.

If the good lord doesn't want us to eat animals why did he make them so tasty?
\

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Narz

Looks like you got your first groupie Conan the Barbarian.

No, I'm more of a jazz musician groupie. It's just the attitude that sitting cross-legged, speaking softly, burning incense, and eating yeast is somehow more spiritual than taking real, focused action to increase your vitality, strength, and personal power -- because "you are not your body" ...... pish posh. feh.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Angela

No, I'm more of a jazz musician groupie. It's just the attitude that sitting cross-legged, speaking softly, burning incense, and eating yeast is somehow more spiritual than taking real, focused action to increase your vitality, strength, and personal power -- because "you are not your body" ...... pish posh. feh.

Yeah me too. But the reason homeboy is so fit is because of discipline & excersise not because he eats meat. There are plenty of equally fit vegetarian bodybuilders.

[escapee]

But the reason homeboy is so fit is because of discipline & excersise not because he eats meat

I would say both diet and exercise play an equally important role in his fitness ( Narz you know this ). Without protein ( either Animal or plant source ) there is a severe restriction on muscle growth. You would still grow muscle but not as big as those with protein (esp whey protein ) rich diet .

Whey Protein - Nature's Amazing Muscle Builder

[Narz]

Yeah of course you need protein, I'd choose hemp over whey though.

[dor]

Originally Posted by Margaret

I dont eat meat because 1) I dont like it and 2) I can't abide the cruelty in the poultry and cattle market. .

as nina plank said, a video of industrial farming is enough to make a veggie out of anyone -but that is just another reason why i buy grass fed and free range beef and poultry -i used to think that was whacky granola stuff but it really makes sense both from health and moral grounds a well raised cow raised as a cow should be is good for the cow and us

[babuji]

Originally Posted by Angela

Oh, please. Do you believe your focus and ability to meditate effectively or become more attuned with your spirit is greater than Mr. Conan's? Just look at him. Do you realize how much focus, how much alignment with spirit it takes to build a "temple" like his?

I'm sure Conan has spent years of hard work and dedication as well as focus in developing this physique which is quite commendable.. however.. I don't agree that it means he necessarily aligns with spirit.

A person aligned with spirit comes to the realization that the mind, the senses, the body... are just illusions.. ultimately those are the very things that make humans attached to worldly desires..

For example, we want to indulge in things that taste good, or feel great, etc.. which is fine, it's part of human nature... However the challenge is to go beyond that.. and if you do research on any true spiritual teaching, it will promote detachment of worldly desires.. How else can you focus your energy on spirit if you have so many worldly distractions taking your focus away from your goal?

A 'temple' is not judged by how well it's built.. but rather how pure it is from the inside...

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by tomn8er

Ok then, it seems like the consensus is that vegans, vegetarians, and meat-eaters can all be healthy or unhealthy - depending on what foods their diet consists of.

... and the programming they work with based on their beliefs.

- - -

I'd have to say that giving your power away to food causes great confusion.

[Angela]

Babuji, you speak as though you are giving us "The Truth" about what it means to be spiritual: there is one way, and it is the way you describe. But your truth is yours, it's not mine. It appears to me, from what Conan has said on this site, what he's accomplished, and what he strives for, that he is every bit as aligned with spirit as you are.

Also, a temple, or any structure, is indeed valued by how well it is built. Purity, schmurity.

(Narz, I'm pretty sure you were responding to something other than my point. I was only suggesting that vegetarianism does not confer a higher sense of the spiritual than does any other eat-ism, not that he's fit because he doesn't eat meat.)

(Conan, sorry for speaking of you in the third person.)

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Angela

I was only suggesting that vegetarianism does not confer a higher sense of the spiritual than does any other eat-ism

Oh, I agree, my carnivorous cats are far more enlightened than any of you suckers!

[rush23]

Just to add my two cents worth, I'm a vegetarian and I'm healthier than I'd been as a flesheater. Anyway, I'm not one of those herbivorous crusaders that go around attacking people who eat meat. In fact, I think it's hypocritical because some vegetarians claim that they don't eat meat because of the cruelty imposed on the animals, but then attack meat eaters viciously. Talk about not practicing what you preach. I'm not one of those.

My vegetarianism is a matter of lifestyle choice. It contributes (along with other factors) to my healthy well being and lifestyle. Vegetarianism or meat eating...whatever floats your boat. All is good!

[escapee]

Oh, I agree, my carnivorous cats are far more enlightened than any of you suckers!

You inspired me to have a search on internet for vegan dogs and cats ..
Vegetarian Dogs & Cats

Hi, my name is Benson and I’m the handsome looking big black cat in the photo with my cheeky but cute little sister Latisha. I’m 3 years old already and Latisha is not even a year yet. I am fully vegan and have never eaten meat in my life. Latisha was brought up eating chicken with her previous family (although she probably didn’t get much as it had to be shared amongst 7 kittens plus mum!) but straight away when joining our household

Interesting stuff, next we gonna make tiger, lion, polar bear, crocodiles or shark "vegan predators" (prey on vege, fruits, seaweed and stealing grains from human )

[Conan Stevens]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

So the Great Protein Myth rears its ugly head again:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...-protein-myth/

Having not eaten an ounce of animal products in over 10 years, I'm still eagerly waiting for that protein deficiency to kick in. I'm sure it will happen any day now...

Out of interest Steve could you give an example of your diet.

My post is purely to bring attention to the fact that many people think eating vegetarian is healthy, no matter what they eat when there are in fact dangers and responsibilities people still need to take into account when planning their diet.

Also the "protein myth" as you call it is severely debunked. If you would care to come to Cambodia with me and see the race of 4.5 foot tall people living in the war ravaged areas - their height due to lack of protein in their diets as children. And yes they had plenty of fruits and Veg - they live in the jungle.

I have personal friends who are this height, yet their children on the same diet with meat added are 5.5 feet tall, or more - in this generation here now it is becoming increasingly common to see Asians over 6 feet in height - previously unheard of in this part of Asia.

Having travelled widely I can speak from experience in this matter.

[dor]

Originally Posted by Conan Stevens

Out of interest Steve could you give an example of your diet.

My post is purely to bring attention to the fact that many people think eating vegetarian is healthy, no matter what they eat when there are in fact dangers and responsibilities people still need to take into account when planning their diet.

Also the "protein myth" as you call it is severely debunked. If you would care to come to Cambodia with me and see the race of 4.5 foot tall people living in the war ravaged areas - their height due to lack of protein in their diets as children. And yes they had plenty of fruits and Veg - they live in the jungle.

oriental immigrants in america are an example, i think japan too - something like 5 inches average higher height because of protein (meat)

[moviestar]

We can talk and debate all we want on the physical benefits.. to which I would agree that eating meat would probably give you a more muscular body.. but that's all meaningless if you realize that YOU are NOT the physical body.. but YOU are actually the soul within that body...

So why don't you stop eating at all if you are the spirit...

I agree with Angela. It takes tremendous will power (spiritual power?) to do what Conan is doing. Read his blog and tell me if he isn't spiritual.

[Zombie]

Is it because of meat protein specifically or the growth hormones used in modern cattle farming? I'm not aware of any studies that show meat itself causing people to grow taller. The Japanese are also suffering from a booming obesity rate, if you want to tack on more effects of cattle protein.

I don't think meat is the problem per se, so much as the quantity of meat. The North American meat-centric diet where the bulk of protein comes from low quality, high-fat meat just isn't that healthy. I think even the bloated, meat-filled corpse of Dr. Atkins would agree to that by now.

I'm striving for the model of "5 days a week" vegan, with good quality fish or chicken for 2 meals a week.

[dor]

Originally Posted by Zombie

Is it because of meat protein specifically or the growth hormones used in modern cattle farming? I'm not aware of any studies that show meat itself causing people to grow taller. The Japanese are also suffering from a booming obesity rate, if you want to tack on more effects of cattle protein.

I don't think meat is the problem per se, so much as the quantity of meat. The North American meat-centric diet where the bulk of protein comes from low quality, high-fat meat just isn't that healthy. I think even the bloated, meat-filled corpse of Dr. Atkins would agree to that by now.

I'm striving for the model of "5 days a week" vegan, with good quality fish or chicken for 2 meals a week.

the quality of beef is the issue - grass fed beef - like wild salmon -has more good fat - and fat is essential for digesting vitamins
japan's obesity rate has to do with eating industrialized foods and the growth of fast food chains.
The healtiest and longest lived people in the world - Sarindians, Owkinaowins, - had meat, cheese and fish in their diets.

[escapee]

The Benefits of Saturated Fats - Share The Wealth

Saturated fatty acids constitute at least 50% of the cell membranes. They are what gives our cells necessary stiffness and integrity.

They play a vital role in the health of our bones. For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure, at least 50% of the dietary fats should be saturated. (38)

They lower Lp(a), a substance in the blood that indicates proneness to heart disease. (39) They protect the liver from alcohol and other toxins, such as Tylenol. (40)

They enhance the immune system. (41)

They are needed for the proper utilization of essential fatty acids.

Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are better retained in the tissues when the diet is rich in saturated fats. (42)

Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the preferred foods for the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly saturated. (43) The heart draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress.

Short- and medium-chain saturated fatty acids (coconut oil)have important antimicrobial properties. They protect us against harmful microorganisms in the digestive tract.

The scientific evidence, honestly evaluated, does not support the assertion that "artery-clogging" saturated fats cause heart disease. (44) Actually, evaluation of the fat in artery clogs reveals that only about 26% is saturated. The rest is unsaturated, of which more than half is polyunsaturated. (45)

Remember hundred years ago what kind of oil or fat our heart disease free ancestors generally consumed .. It's .... Sigh

[Conan Stevens]

Originally Posted by Zombie

Is it because of meat protein specifically or the growth hormones used in modern cattle farming? I'm not aware of any studies that show meat itself causing people to grow taller. The Japanese are also suffering from a booming obesity rate, if you want to tack on more effects of cattle protein.

I don't think meat is the problem per se, so much as the quantity of meat. The North American meat-centric diet where the bulk of protein comes from low quality, high-fat meat just isn't that healthy. I think even the bloated, meat-filled corpse of Dr. Atkins would agree to that by now.

I'm striving for the model of "5 days a week" vegan, with good quality fish or chicken for 2 meals a week.

Being from Australia we did not have the quality issues with red meat - we have the best in the world and heaps of it very cheap.

I would agree withthe quality of meat that most people eat is not good - in fact I beleive anything processed is going to be bad for you in general.

Zombie I know quiet a few people who use this kind of diet an dI have to admit yes it is a healthy approach (as long as your vegies are not processed)

For me though I need this body type for my chosen career and I happen to like it.

Why put your spirit around in this world in a go-cart when you can have a Ferrari? (spelling?). Personally if I was out of shape and not 100% healthy looking then I would be kicking myself up the butt for being lazy - but I do that in all aspects of my life.

Also I would like to say THANKS to everyone posting in this thread and making it a real discussion rather than a flame fest.