Why train flexibility?

[Scipio]

Steves yoga article brought up the question in my head. I mean, if you don't play any sports where a lot of flexibility is needed, what's the point.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Scipio

Steves yoga article brought up the question in my head. I mean, if you don't play any sports where a lot of flexibility is needed, what's the point.

Many things that are considered aging are really lack of use. Aging makes people stiffer, less flexible, less muscle and strength. But an 80 year old doing yoga is more flexible than an 18 year old doing no stretching. Also many people get injured while not doing sports. Stretching can reduce the chances and damage.

Do you know anyone with stress? Stretching de-stresses you. Do you know anyone with lice in their hair? Stretching de-louses you. That is a joke. I am kidding about that. Does Dr Oz only treat athletes? No. He treats everyone.

So what does that have to do with all this. He has all of his patients do yoga. Yoga is the second best way ever for anti-aging. What is the first one? It is all over this forum-- fasting. Morris Krok wrote books about doing fasting and yoga. I do more yoga when I fast since I have more time.

[FazK]

Because when you stretch and get flexible - it feels SO good.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by FazK

Because when you stretch and get flexible - it feels SO good.

This

I would say train flexibility because it will improve your whole body's health in general. Also, if you are more flexible, you are less likely to sprain or strain a muscle while doing exercise or other work.

I am not a very flexible person per se, but in the past when I have done some yoga I feel very good afterwards. I can't see any downside to incorporating it into your daily or weekly exercise routine.

[Anioc]

Training of flexibility is often overseen by fitness instructors but is a vital part of a healthy and well shaped body.

[wido1982]

I practice yoga for several reasons, one of them is I want to age gracefully. When I see all this older people struggling with everyday things such as putting on shoes or taking the stairs, I know why it is important to stay flexible and strong.

[newmark]

Flexibility is important for life.

Once I was in a room with several people. A young woman of 21 dropped something on the floor. She bent down to pick it up and she pulled her back. Immediately an older woman in the room asked her if she ever did any exercise. She said no. When I asked her more questions later I found out she didn't like to do any kind of physical activity, including stretching.

If you never stretch, then you increase the chances of injury from everyday activities, and you slowly limit the kinds of movements your body can make - that is, get older, faster.

[Bleicke]

You need to be flexible so you don't have to tap out so early.

[Illuminatus]

-Improves muscle tone and strength
-Burns calories
-Increases stamina from maintaining poses
-Releases opioids into the brain (hence why it feels so good)
-Improves body awareness and therefore emotional awareness (emotions are felt mostly in the body)
-Provides a period of mental FLOW since you are doing repetitive stretches/poses - therefore improves concentration
-Flexibility allows more demanding sexual positions

Those are just some I came up with off the cuff.

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Many things that are considered aging are really lack of use.
Aging makes people stiffer, less flexible, less muscle and strength.
But an 80 year old doing yoga is more flexible,
than an 18 year old doing no stretching.
Also many people get injured while not doing sports.

Stretching can reduce the chances and damage.

Does Dr Oz only treat athletes? No. He treats everyone.
He has all of his patients do yoga.
Yoga is the second best way ever for anti-aging.
What is the first one? -fasting.

True: Stretching... helps keep everyone both mentally & physically younger

(tho I neither fast, nor do yoga). And yet, I'm maintaining... flexability - so other Fun-factors come into play...

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by FazK

Because when you stretch and get flexible - it feels SO good.

I've been to yoga classes before and the stretching generally felt uncomfortable. It wasn't painful, just uncomfortable.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

I would say train flexibility because it will improve your whole body's health in general.

Source? What specific parts of me are going to become healthier?

Also, if you are more flexible, you are less likely to sprain or strain a muscle while doing exercise or other work.

That's not true. Becoming "more" flexible is not always a good thing as far as injury prevention goes. The flexibility levels a person requires for jogging or playing a sport are equal to the positions that they use throughout their activity in the sport or work. So for example, you don't get any injury prevention benefit from being able to do the splits if you're a carpenter.

I can't see any downside to incorporating it into your daily or weekly exercise routine.

Time and money lost wasting your time doing something that isn't benefiting you? Apart from the "feeling good after"--which many activities could provide you.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by newmark

Once I was in a room with several people. A young woman of 21 dropped something on the floor. She bent down to pick it up and she pulled her back. Immediately an older woman in the room asked her if she ever did any exercise. She said no. When I asked her more questions later I found out she didn't like to do any kind of physical activity, including stretching.

She probably hurt her back from having a weak erector spinae and poor posture, not from lack of flexibility.

If you never stretch, then you increase the chances of injury from everyday activities,

That is not really proven, and pre-exercise stretching has been proven to slightly increase the risk of injury in a huge meta-study, which is a contradiction to your claim.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Illuminatus

-Improves muscle tone and strength
-Burns calories
-Increases stamina from maintaining poses

Except for not knowing exactly what you mean by stamina, I think you could replace yoga with just about any other physical activity and have it match up equally or better. Doing yoga to increase strength is like eating celery to gain weight.

[Illuminatus]

Originally Posted by Scipio

Except for not knowing exactly what you mean by stamina, I think you could replace yoga with just about any other physical activity and have it match up equally or better. Doing yoga to increase strength is like eating celery to gain weight.

Many poses in yoga take the whole weight of the body on specific muscle groups. Have you tried yoga? It's ♥♥♥.king tiring. Try ashtanga yoga if what you're trying doesn't exert enough effort.

Yoga also provides a programme, and people like routines because they're easier to stick to.

It seems like you think yoga is stupid and you're looking for reasons not to do it rather than actually considering the benefits.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Illuminatus

Many poses in yoga take the whole weight of the body on specific muscle groups.

Yeah ...

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Scipio

She probably hurt her back from having a weak erector spinae and poor posture, not from lack of flexibility.


That is not really proven, and pre-exercise stretching has been proven to slightly increase the risk of injury in a huge meta-study, which is a contradiction to your claim.

Neither of us really know why she hurt her back, but I think - from the feelings I have when I exercise, or don't - that exercise helps a lot.

What study was that?

[Boldnut]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

This

I would say train flexibility because it will improve your whole body's health in general. Also, if you are more flexible, you are less likely to sprain or strain a muscle while doing exercise or other work.

In J. C. Andersen’s compilation of lower extremity stretching research, the effects of stretching before and after exercise were reviewed for evidence of muscle soreness. The seven articles referenced in his research came from sources such as MEDLINE and CINAHL. All data used came from studies that used static stretching programs and included average healthy participants between ages eighteen and forty.

The results of Andersen’s research are somewhat limited, due to the nature of the literature he selected; however, his findings suggest that stretching has no beneficial effects on injury reduction. Two to five percent reductions in injury levels lead Anderson to believe stretching routines will not have impact on injury prevention or post-exercise soreness. Also, the concept that stretching decreases risk of injury in active muscles is negated by claims in the literature reviewed.

A study constructed by Nelson et al. set out to find the correlation between pre-exercise static stretching and its effects on muscle strength endurance. Two experiments were designed to find the initial links between pre-exercise stretching and muscle endurance.

Results of the study found both stretching experiments to reduce effectiveness of muscle strength endurance by up to thirty percent. They suggest that pre-exercise stretching induces a fatigue-like state in muscles which would clearly inhibit performance if the muscle is not at full potential.

Sources:
# Witvrouw, Erik, Nele Mahieu, Lieven Danneels, and Peter McNair. "Stretching and Injury Prevention An Obscure Relationship." Sports Medicine 34.7(2004): 443-449.
# Andersen, J. C.. "Stretching Before and After Exercise: Effect on Muscle Soreness and Injury Risk." Journal of Athletic Training 40(2005): 218-220.

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Boldnut

The results of Andersen’s research are somewhat limited, due to the nature of the literature he selected; however, his findings suggest that stretching has no beneficial effects on injury reduction. Two to five percent reductions in injury levels lead Anderson to believe stretching routines will not have impact on injury prevention or post-exercise soreness. Also, the concept that stretching decreases risk of injury in active muscles is negated by claims in the literature reviewed.


Results of the study found both stretching experiments to reduce effectiveness of muscle strength endurance by up to thirty percent. They suggest that pre-exercise stretching induces a fatigue-like state in muscles which would clearly inhibit performance if the muscle is not at full potential.

I haven't researched this area, but the results you mentioned seem counter intuitive, and don't reflect the feelings I have when practicing kung fu. Stretching really feels beneficial - even if a study says it isn't. Over stretching is something we are warned against by our teacher, because this can weaken the muscle.

I have no studies to back this up; just the feelings I've had over a few decades of exercising.

Do you know what kind of exercise the participants of the study did after stretching?

[Ashton Cartwright]

For myself, I have horrendous posture (no doubt due to a lifetime of playing online poker!), and stretching significantly helps correct it.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by FazK

Because when you stretch and get flexible - it feels SO good.

agree

Originally Posted by Ashton Cartwright

For myself, I have horrendous posture (no doubt due to a lifetime of playing online poker!), and stretching significantly helps correct it.

Yes. My posture has improved by about 1000% since adding a simple set of daily yoga stretches. Like 10-15 minutes every day or two and I've seen sooooo much benefit.

Actually, I started working on my posture BEFORE adding the yoga and then I basically HAD to add the yoga because I was in so much pain trying to force my body into good posture. Which is probably what made the yoga feel SO good.

With better posture, my neck and shoulders are no longer in constant pain, also my hands (had "overused tendons" which made typing painful... caused by tightness originating in my neck and shoulders). The little muscles in the shoulders aren't being required to work so hard, and that tension now goes to the glutes and hamstrings which can take it. And people with good posture look so much more confident, relaxed, and healthy... it's definitely one of those visual cues that people WILL judge you on, whether at a conscious or unconscious level.

Also, having tight hamstrings pulls on your back and is a major cause of back problems as you get older. My dad has had all sorts of back problems and surgeries even and it's really something to avoid if you can.

[Nameless One]

Look at people around you especially as they get older, their movements become more constricted. Yoga basically forces someone to use their bodies for once in a large range of motion. I actually get back spasms if I do not twist and crack my back for 2 days, but since I do it every day, my body is nice and limber and pain free all the time. I don't even do yoga or any special practices, I just get down on the floor and move around a few times a day for a few minutes whenever I'm feeling "stagnant" from being so sednetary sitting around

Look at people around you, or yourself.. notice how they always sit still, or just walk, but never twist themselves, or go upside down, or stretch or anything, they just go about their daily affairs making only movementrs that are necessary to get the job done, and quite wooden movements at that

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Illuminatus

Many poses in yoga take the whole weight of the body on specific muscle groups. Have you tried yoga? It's ♥♥♥.king tiring. Try ashtanga yoga if what you're trying doesn't exert enough effort.

Yep, I have actually taken a for-credit yoga course. Isn't that awesome? That was on an exchange in Korea.

Exerting effort isn't the same thing as building strength my friend. You can't gauge that you're gaining strength through the amount of effort you exert.

It seems like you think yoga is stupid and you're looking for reasons not to do it rather than actually considering the benefits.

The thread is about flexibility, not yoga. I asked why people should train flexibility. Yoga is one of the most practiced methods of training flexibility on this forum, but Western style static stretching is pretty darn popular elsewhere. Whether it's yoga, static stretching, dynamic stretching as popularized by the Russians, or anything else, I'm just looking at reasons to do it.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Ashton Cartwright

For myself, I have horrendous posture (no doubt due to a lifetime of playing online poker!), and stretching significantly helps correct it.

Stretching helps with your flexibility, it doesn't really help with posture except in very extreme cases.

It's best that you work on your posture directly. Two of the best "schools of thought" are The Alexander Technique, and the Gokhale Method. I recommend you watch the Esther Gokhale video when she presents her system at Google Talks:

YouTube - Authors@Google: Esther Gokhale

It could really change your life! You need to learn proper postures for sitting, standing, and you can even improve your walking and running gait. Personally, I run either barefoot or with Vibram Fivefingers, but that only helps to a certain extent. You have to retrain your whole movement patterns.

Anyway, as you can see from the video, it doesn't take a whole lot of flexibility to be able to sit with your back a little bit straighter and your shoulders back. In fact, basically everyone should be able to do so without needing to work on flexibility first.

Edit: If you play Online Poker all day, I totally recommend you adopt a standing desk position. Research it, it's good for a tonne of reasons, but especially for your posture.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

With better posture, my neck and shoulders are no longer in constant pain, also my hands (had "overused tendons" which made typing painful... caused by tightness originating in my neck and shoulders). The little muscles in the shoulders aren't being required to work so hard, and that tension now goes to the glutes and hamstrings which can take it. And people with good posture look so much more confident, relaxed, and healthy... it's definitely one of those visual cues that people WILL judge you on, whether at a conscious or unconscious level.

These are all great benefits to improving one's posture. Your neck and shoulders were "tight" (overly contracted) from poor posture, not poor flexibility. They weren't "tight" in the other sense used when speaking of flexibility, in regard to not being able to loosen into a deep stretch. That's an easy mistake to make--I wish the terms weren't exactly the same for that reason.

In an ideal state of posture, we're not putting great effort into stretching or lengthening any muscles like is done during stretching. Most of posture training is about retraining muscle memory.

[Brutha]

The goal of yoga is to increase "healthiness". Sometimes called chi. Unfortunately it's difficult to measure it directly.

Flexibility is kind of a hard word, something that you can measure. The point of yoga isn't the flexibility. If your yoga person would however say that they do yoga to improve their chi than you would ignore them and therefore they have to speak a language that's uses terms like flexibility.

From my university system biology physiology lecture I learned that there another important physical variable that doesn't really have a name.
It's about how well your body rhythm are in sink. If body rhythm aren't in sink the body has to pay more energy to do stuff.
When I ask my prof what he meant with the term energy on a material level he couldn't tell me. The argument for the existence of the energy was based on a dynamic system analogy.

I think it's plausible that rhythms can better sync when you have more flexibility.

Maybe you could call all that syncing of rhythms that our body has to do, reducing entropy in the body.

Reducing entropy in complex systems isn't easy but a complex process. It's somehow just seems to work that the entropy in our body doesn't really rise.
The idea of focus is that it's about calories. About having big muscles that can burn a lot calories.
How the body does it's entropy management is however poorly understood and the process is in reductionist approaches to health taken for granted.
System biology is new and unfortunately we can't measure a lot of important variables without noise.
When you have noise in your variables you can't effectively calculate entropy.

In the end it's about being and feeling healthy. Yoga is primarily done by people who can about whether they feel better after they have done yoga. If one of those girls wants to convince their boyfriend, they begin to talk about flexibility because that's a variable that fits into the reductionist view of the body.

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by Scipio

These are all great benefits to improving one's posture. Your neck and shoulders were "tight" (overly contracted) from poor posture, not poor flexibility. They weren't "tight" in the other sense used when speaking of flexibility, in regard to not being able to loosen into a deep stretch. That's an easy mistake to make--I wish the terms weren't exactly the same for that reason.

In an ideal state of posture, we're not putting great effort into stretching or lengthening any muscles like is done during stretching. Most of posture training is about retraining muscle memory.

Nice try, but you are wrong.

I was "tight" enough that I was physically unable to assume a good posture and flexibility training allowed me to recapture that ability. As I mentioned, I began working on posture before starting flexibility training and the pain involved basically forced me to begin. Even now there are a couple of little things in my posture I expect will improve with more flexibility.

[Brutha]

. As I mentioned, I began working on posture before starting flexibility training and the pain involved basically forced me to begin.

With framework did you use to train posture?

[lifeforce]

Originally Posted by Scipio

Steves yoga article brought up the question in my head. I mean, if you don't play any sports where a lot of flexibility is needed, what's the point.

Well, put simply, flexibility gives you a good posture. The body is basically joints on top of joints, on top of joints from toes to head. Something simple like having tight calves and hamstrings for example will cause the whole body to shift weight and joints to realign to compensate for lack of flexibility. I had a nagging shoulder injury that came from having tight hamstrings. Not only that, but my lower back did the work that my ass and legs were supposed to do, and I ended up with 24/7 lower back pain (joint injury in the tailbone) witch lasted two years. I wasn´t doing anything special at the time. Simply lifting weights.

[Criseyde]

Flexibility reduces your risk for injury. If you're a carpenter you may not think the splits are useful, but what if you slip on a patch of ice and fall? Would you like to tear a hamstring? That's one of the slowest injuries to heal.