The Milk Dilemma

[Andrew Brunelle]

Raw milk from a healthy cow is one of the best sources of nutrition out there. But the commercial milk they sell at the grocery store is an abomination. The real problem in this country is that selling raw milk is illegal. I know there are a lot of vegans on this forum and I too agree that the factory farming system has got to go. I believe it is a function of population though. Before we started grain agriculture, we didn't have so many mouths to feed, so therefore no reason to domesticate animals, which inevitably led to the factory farming system we have today.

I'm going to say right off that I really don't like milk that much. I used to like it, now I never drink it straight. It comes in the form of half-and-half in my coffee or in a latte. I don't want to drink soymilk because it is also detrimental to health, due to antinutrients and estrogen-like compounds. I've heard negative things about rice milk and that almonds are now sprayed with a chemical that is toxic so almond milk is also out of the question. Non-dairy creamers are full of trans fats and don't really taste very good.

The question is: What the hell am I supposed to put in my coffee to make it taste less bitter and creamy? I'm assuming almond milk is the best vegan one, but raw, unadulterated milk from a cow is what would be the most beneficial for health, but it will be hard to find a farmer who you can trust is delivering healthy milk from a healthy cow. I don't want to come down with TB because my farmer has sick cows. Maybe I should just quit coffee altogether.

[Indy107]

Not sure I can help - and I totally agree with everything you said. Only I don't drink milk at all. If I was to drink it - I'd try and find a local farmer who will sell you some raw milk, or even goat milk. Other than that, I think you can order raw, untreated Almonds on the Internet and than make your own Almond milk.

[joylangtry]

I use Silk Creamer. Yes, it's soy, but I guess in this debate we are choosing the lesser of evils?

Here is the Nutrition info.

I've come to really love it in my coffee. I've been vegan over 2 years, and this is one old ritual I just haven't parted with yet!

[Gabo]

The healthiest solution: stop drinking coffee. Why fuss over the health content of an additive for a drink that already contains an addictive drug?

[rei]

maybe i missed it, but it seems you could buy certified organic half and half. did you say why you couldn't? they are not allowed to sell it as organic if it has a bunch of hormones in it, and this often supports family - not factory - farming.

[stanmrak]

Personally, I'm not going to give up my coffee and half-and-half! Life would not be worth it. But I compensate by otherwise eating healthy everyday, all day, including superfoods and supplements.

Everybody has to have one vice — don't they?

[LVGeneration]

I never drink coffee or milk, but I do eat milk products, mostly sour cream and yogurt, rarely cheese. I try to always buy these organic, they taste way better and are healthier. I'm a big herbal tea drinker though, and only use honey. Maybe you could try substituting some of your coffee with tea and use organic milk? It's not as good as raw, but at least it's better than regular milk.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

it will be hard to find a farmer who you can trust is delivering healthy milk from a healthy cow.

Are you familiar with this site:

Where Can I Find Real Milk Products?

[Jack Christopher]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Raw milk from a healthy cow is one of the best sources of nutrition out there.

The question is: What the hell am I supposed to put in my coffee to make it taste less bitter and creamy? I'm assuming almond milk is the best vegan one, but raw, unadulterated milk from a cow is what would be the most beneficial for health, but it will be hard to find a farmer who you can trust is delivering healthy milk from a healthy cow. I don't want to come down with TB because my farmer has sick cows. Maybe I should just quit coffee altogether.

You can get pastured grass fed raw milk (cow or goat) but it depends on the state. But you could also use coconut milk.

Kefir might be a compromise too.

[Gene]

When I was a child growing up on a farm in Southern Illinois I drank exclusively milk from our own dairy cows. I've even squirted milk into my mouth directly from the cows teat. The milk was wonderful.

When I started elementary school I first drank milk from a box and wondered why anyone would actually drink this stuff. As an adult I have purchased fresh milk from local farms.

I have however become used to the stuff that is sold in the stores, the very stuff I once wondered why anyone would ever willingly choose to do so. The small dairy is unusual now. I do not want to drink raw milk if I am not familiar with the farm from where it is produced as there are some risks if the milk is not handled properly and the cows healthy and well cared for.

I am now drinking mass market milk. I like it. It tastes good now. If I had a local farm producing milk I would buy from them and see how raw milk tastes to me lo these several decades later.

[Aware]

As you already said, maybe you should stop drinking coffee, if that's mot detrimental to our health, then what is.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Originally Posted by rei

maybe i missed it, but it seems you could buy certified organic half and half. did you say why you couldn't? they are not allowed to sell it as organic if it has a bunch of hormones in it, and this often supports family - not factory - farming.

Because organic half-and-half is pasteurized and homogenized. It is still in a form that is very difficult for us humans to digest and can cause numerous health issues.

And for the person who told me to give up coffee, I have a rare brain condition brought on by a brain tumor that needs sufficient amounts of caffeine for me to even be able to function. Otherwise, I would gladly give up the coffee. But without it, I am unable to hold a job or even drive a car most days.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

And for the person who told me to give up coffee, I have a rare brain condition brought on by a brain tumor that needs sufficient amounts of caffeine for me to even be able to function. Otherwise, I would gladly give up the coffee. But without it, I am unable to hold a job or even drive a car most days.

That certainly an exceptional circumstance so keep drinking the coffee. Do you drink tea and other caffeinated drinks or is coffee the only thing which improves your condition.

[Fullcrum]

I live in NJ where raw milk is illegal to sell. So I order it online from a NY dairy that goes to PA and delivers it to your door once a week (this time it's Wed.)

Udder Milk - Home

Just like the farm. $10 a gallon for raw milk delivered to your door. No shipping.

It's the best friggen deal ever. Awesome. The heavy cream you get from this milk is so thick it looks like it's whipped, but it's not: that's the cream.

I also get farm fresh eggs from this place and eat them raw.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Because organic half-and-half is pasteurized and homogenized. It is still in a form that is very difficult for us humans to digest and can cause numerous health issues.

And for the person who told me to give up coffee, I have a rare brain condition brought on by a brain tumor that needs sufficient amounts of caffeine for me to even be able to function. Otherwise, I would gladly give up the coffee. But without it, I am unable to hold a job or even drive a car most days.

Do you put sweetener in your coffee? Sugar is worse than the coffee or milk. Yerba mate might be able to satisfy your need for caffeine. That is a super healthy drink. The mateine in it is actually caffeine, but they have learned that caffeine can affect you differently due to what else is in the plant. There is also caffeine in white and green tea and they are also healthy for you.

Have you tried coconut milk? Also the most reputable sites like government sites, webmd and others say that soy is good for you. The plant estrogen in it is different than animal estrogen just like the carbs in an apple are different than the carbs in ice cream.

No adult animals drink milk. What would be most natural for you would be to suck it out of your mother's boobs and spit it in the coffee. Or your mother could use a breast pump to remove it and put it in a bottle and you could put it in your coffee. It is raw and not homogenized. There is also hemp milk and rice milk. the USDA says that goats milk is the healthiest milk. More people in the world drink goats milk than cows milk.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

I live in NJ where raw milk is illegal to sell. So I order it online from a NY dairy that goes to PA and delivers it to your door once a week (this time it's Wed.)

Udder Milk - Home

Just like the farm. $10 a gallon for raw milk delivered to your door. No shipping.

It's the best friggen deal ever. Awesome. The heavy cream you get from this milk is so thick it looks like it's whipped, but it's not: that's the cream.

I also get farm fresh eggs from this place and eat them raw.

The above place is interesting. They have raw goats milk. I saw NJ delivery but not PA delivery. But I did not see a list of where they deliver.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

And for the person who told me to give up coffee, I have a rare brain condition brought on by a brain tumor that needs sufficient amounts of caffeine for me to even be able to function. Otherwise, I would gladly give up the coffee. But without it, I am unable to hold a job or even drive a car most days.

Aren't there caffeine pills that you could take instead of drinking coffee? If you have such a condition, your doctor would certainly prescribe you some.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Raw milk from a healthy cow is one of the best sources of nutrition out there.

Only if you're a baby cow.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Aren't there caffeine pills that you could take instead of drinking coffee?

They're about ten cents each and available without prescription in the US, but a lot of people seem to feel safer drinking coffee or sugary caffeinated soft drinks (not necessarily Andrew, but a lot of people I know). When I'm on long road trips I like to keep some in the car in case I need to wake up a bit but don't want to stop somewhere and then be carrying a scalding substance with me.

[Fullcrum]

No PA delivery from Udder Milk, only NY and NJ.

Maybe in PA it's easier to just go to a farm and get it yourself. I really don't know. All I know is that the service is awesome.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

No adult animals drink milk.

That's not true. Every dog I've ever lived with drank milk, and about half the cats did too. Adult animals are quite happy to drink milk if they can get it.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

The question is: What the hell am I supposed to put in my coffee to make it taste less bitter and creamy?

How about regular cream? You can still buy fairly decent non-ultra-pasteurized cream at most health food stores. It doesn't take much to cream up your coffee, and it tastes fantastic.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

That's not true. Every dog I've ever lived with drank milk, and about half the cats did too. Adult animals are quite happy to drink milk if they can get it.

Yeah, that.

Is it just me, or does this false anti-dairy talking point come up with every single thread about drinking milk?

I guess a lot of people don't have pets, otherwise they'd know how animals practically inhale cow's milk when it's put before them, with no harmful effects as long as their digestion is in good shape.

There's a reason people and animals love dairy—it tastes great. A lot of the moral arguments against drinking milk have no power over the pure pleasure that consuming dairy provides. Even lactose-intolerant people try to consume dairy, like the Japanese.

It's an ancient preference that's reflected in old sayings like the biblical reference to Israel in Exodus as the "land of milk and honey" and "cream of the crop."

[msnow45man]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Raw milk from a healthy cow is one of the best sources of nutrition out there. But the commercial milk they sell at the grocery store is an abomination. The real problem in this country is that selling raw milk is illegal. I know there are a lot of vegans on this forum and I too agree that the factory farming system has got to go. I believe it is a function of population though. Before we started grain agriculture, we didn't have so many mouths to feed, so therefore no reason to domesticate animals, which inevitably led to the factory farming system we have today.

I'm going to say right off that I really don't like milk that much. I used to like it, now I never drink it straight. It comes in the form of half-and-half in my coffee or in a latte. I don't want to drink soymilk because it is also detrimental to health, due to antinutrients and estrogen-like compounds. I've heard negative things about rice milk and that almonds are now sprayed with a chemical that is toxic so almond milk is also out of the question. Non-dairy creamers are full of trans fats and don't really taste very good.

The question is: What the hell am I supposed to put in my coffee to make it taste less bitter and creamy? I'm assuming almond milk is the best vegan one, but raw, unadulterated milk from a cow is what would be the most beneficial for health, but it will be hard to find a farmer who you can trust is delivering healthy milk from a healthy cow. I don't want to come down with TB because my farmer has sick cows. Maybe I should just quit coffee altogether.

You can buy shares of a cow and get your milk that way . Almond milk is good if it does not have sugar in it .sugar is actually a downer.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by liamona

A lot of the moral arguments against drinking milk have no power over the pure pleasure that consuming dairy provides.

My girlfriend and I don't usually care for the taste of milk, unless it's raw or has been made into kefir. A friend that drinks about half a gallon of local raw milk daily says he feels like he's going into mild withdrawal when he doesn't have access to it for a few days. I wonder how much of that is due to the opiates in milk

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

That's not true. Every dog I've ever lived with drank milk, and about half the cats did too. Adult animals are quite happy to drink milk if they can get it.

I think what was meant was animals other than pets.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Beuford

I think what was meant was animals other than pets.

You mean those unfortunate creatures who don't have a sympathetic human around to give them the goods?

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Beuford

I think what was meant was animals other than pets.

Most livestock will drink milk from another animal.. be it chickens or pigs..
I prefer pigs milk myself

[PerDev]

Cow's milk is good compare to buffalo's milk .. as buffalo's milk makes you lazy.
But both are bad compare to raw food.

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

Raw milk from a healthy cow is one of the best sources of nutrition out there. But the commercial milk they sell at the grocery store is an abomination. The real problem in this country is that selling raw milk is illegal. I know there are a lot of vegans on this forum and I too agree that the factory farming system has got to go. I believe it is a function of population though. Before we started grain agriculture, we didn't have so many mouths to feed, so therefore no reason to domesticate animals, which inevitably led to the factory farming system we have today.

I'm going to say right off that I really don't like milk that much. I used to like it, now I never drink it straight. It comes in the form of half-and-half in my coffee or in a latte. I don't want to drink soymilk because it is also detrimental to health, due to antinutrients and estrogen-like compounds. I've heard negative things about rice milk and that almonds are now sprayed with a chemical that is toxic so almond milk is also out of the question. Non-dairy creamers are full of trans fats and don't really taste very good.

The question is: What the hell am I supposed to put in my coffee to make it taste less bitter and creamy? I'm assuming almond milk is the best vegan one, but raw, unadulterated milk from a cow is what would be the most beneficial for health, but it will be hard to find a farmer who you can trust is delivering healthy milk from a healthy cow. I don't want to come down with TB because my farmer has sick cows. Maybe I should just quit coffee altogether.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

That's not true. Every dog I've ever lived with drank milk, and about half the cats did too. Adult animals are quite happy to drink milk if they can get it.

They drink it since man gives it to them, but not on their own. Every dog that I ever had would eat and love anything we gave it. My friend in Paris, France said that she had Japanese food for dinner and her dog, Koala, loved it. Then she added, "but he loves everything." So your dog would love to eat Japanese food. Just name one food that a dog does not like to eat.

What you said is like saying that a cow will drop some feces and sleep in it. Yes that is how they make veal. They do not let the cow move around. But in nature an adult dog does not go up to a cow and start to suck on her.