Biphasic Sleep - need help

[Romeo Foxtrot]

I have yet to find a blog or webpage that fully explains how biphasic sleep is supposed to work. I've read the paragraph on wikipedia and the FAQ on Devin Reams but these don't hit on the basics which is what I'm looking for. Specifically, I'm wondering:

1) How long is your "nap" supposed to be and how long is your night sleep supposed to be?

2) Should you use an alarm to wake up or do it naturally

3) What are the benefits of biphasic sleep? Do biphasic sleepers generally sleep less total hours than monophasic sleep?

4) What are some sample sleep schedules for biphasic sleepers?

5) Can the nap be any time during the day (i.e. after lunchtime) or does it have to be at night (i.e. around 8:30pm)

Thanks for any help!

[Trustme]

1) How long is your "nap" supposed to be and how long is your night sleep supposed to be?

The blog you refer to recommends 90 minutes intervalls that equal in one 90 minute nap and 4.5 hours of core sleep at night. He went down to 3 hours core sleep. I have not duplicated this yet but I think it's achievable.

2) Should you use an alarm to wake up or do it naturally

I use an alarm clock for both nap and core sleep. I prefer the safety of knowing that there is an alarm clock that's going to ring. I usually wake up before the alarm when I nap.


3) What are the benefits of biphasic sleep? Do biphasic sleepers generally sleep less total hours than monophasic sleep?

Less total sleep time. More energy, especially in the evenings. I am very much awake up until midnight after my nap. I don't feel tired all day long. With mono-sleep I can't achieve that. I am more tired during the day and Ihit lows in the afternoon and in the evening.

4) What are some sample sleep schedules for biphasic sleepers?

It's not that complicated. I suggest you experiment a little. Go down to 6.5 hours a night core sleep and start napping in the evening. Gradually decrease the core sleep until you start getting tired before your nap and really fall asleep.



5) Can the nap be any time during the day (i.e. after lunchtime) or does it have to be at night (i.e. around 8:30pm)

Good question. I think you got to try it. Maybe a longer nap and shorter core sleep works best in this scenario. My guess - I have never tried that.

Hope this helps. I stated this before and would like to mention it again - the habit of getting up early is not something I was born with. I have tried it for years but could finally adjust this year (with the help of some tricks) and I absolutely love it. My quality of life is so much better. For everyone getting up at the last possible time and rushing to the office - try to change that behavior, this may have major positive result on your life. I have been there and I will never go back.

V.

PS: Be careful not to push it too far. When I tried 3 hours core I was like a zombie all day long. It think it takes time to get acustomed to it. The trick is the nap. The body has to adapt until you get the most out of this napping time.

[Pavel Alasheev]

Trustme, can you share you results? what is your sleep schedule and what's the average number of hours you sleep per day?

[Romeo Foxtrot]

thanks Trustme, I'm going to try to get myself to nap tonight. Hopefully I won't have trouble falling asleep

[Trustme]

just got up from my nap

I got up at 5:00 am today, went to bed at 11:45 pm and had a nap today from 6:45 pm to 7:30 pm.

My earliest wake up time I can handle without negative consequences (tiredness, lack of concentration) is around 4:30 am with a minimum 60 minute nap. This makes a total of around 5.5 hours total time in bed. If you take into account that you have to fall asleep twice instead of once so you lose some time there - I think that's pretty good and realistic.

My next goal is 4 hours a night plus the nap (60 to 90 minutes). I don't want to ruin my health and my limit is when it doesn't feel right anymore. I have extremley low cholesterol levels because of my nutrition, I workout - not in the gym but with bodyweight training - and I actually find it pretty strange if someone out of shape who is drinking alcohol, smoking and eating lots of (trans)fats complains about my "unhealthy" way of living.

For me it's the quality, not the quantity. I am no walking zombie at all. I feel better now than I did with my standard 7.5 hours of sleep. I enjoy the reboot in the evening because after my nap it feels like a whole new day. Sometimes I start my nap stressed out because of my work and not feeling like doing anymore that day and wake up ready to conquer the day (or evening) again.

I never really tried polyphasic sleep but bi-phasic really does it for me.

Regards
Volkmar

[Trustme]

Originally Posted by Romeo Foxtrot

thanks Trustme, I'm going to try to get myself to nap tonight. Hopefully I won't have trouble falling asleep

I am a firm believer in the 30day challenges/trials, whatever you would like to call it. For me it's 21days because I prefer the number and there is this saying "it takes 21 days to build a habit".

Condition yourself for 21 days - no matter what - to go to bed for a nap at a certain time. Set the alarm 60 minutes later and close your eyes and doze. You won't fall asleep the first couple of times but after some time you will. Then carefully try to get up earlier. Nothing extreme in the beginning, reduce it by 30 minutes or so and continue to nap. You have to listen to your body. There is a difference when it just bitches around because it isn't used to it and when it really complains because it needs something and doesn't get it.

Volkmar

[andrius]

I noticed this several times when I had tried a nap for an hour or 30 minutes in the evening. Usually I have to sleep 8 hours to make it through a day. But if I have a 30 minute nap in the evening (e.g. 6:30 - 7:00 pm), and then go to bed at 11:30 pm, then I can wake up at 6:00 am with ease and go through all the day no problem. This makes a total of 7 hours sleep per day.

Having a 30 minute nap saves 1 hour of sleep per day. This works for me, i can't tell for others, nor did I any research...


Regards,
Andrius

[Romeo Foxtrot]

Volkmar, I've read on blogs that the body sleeps in 90 minutes cycles but you take 60 minute naps and don't seem to sleep in increments of 90 minutes. Does any of the 90 minute stuff matter or does it all just depend on the individual person?

[Trustme]

good question
you read the same blogs I read. There is some truth in the cycle stuff. We all know it - you wake up and feel groggy even after you got "enough" sleep and the next day you wake up and feel great after a lot less total sleep. I hardly ever feel groggy in the morning any more unless I sleep too long - which I sometimes do just for fun, especially when I am not alone in bed In my earlier days when I went to bed late and got up late (or when I went to bed early and got up late) I was devastated in the mornings. That's gone now.

I still experience some kind of grogginess after a nap. For me that's natural up to some extend. It goes away after some minutes. That's something that might actually disappear completely if I stuck to the 90 minutes for a complete nap cycle.

Anyway - the 90 minutes are no dogma, at least not for me. I only suggest you don't try the 3 hours core + 90 minute nap that is described in the blogs unless you don't have to do something important to do that day. In my experience the bi-phasic thing is something you can convert to in small steps and it does feel natural along the way (compared to the polyphasic sleep that really seems to turn you into a living zombie for a couple of weeks).

[Romeo Foxtrot]

I had 6 hours of sleep last night. I think I'm going to try to do an hour and a half nap tonight and then maybe 4.5 hour core later on for 6 hours total. if that works out for a while I'll try to decrease to 3 hour core (wow, 4.5 hours of total sleep in a day seems like so little)

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Romeo Foxtrot

I have yet to find a blog or webpage that fully explains how biphasic sleep is supposed to work.

Romeo Foxtrot, as another source of information I offer my own experiences. I've been happily biphasic for a couple of months now, and posted my experiences each day during the first 30 days - as well as a detailed summary at the end of this period.

Take a look at Straight to the Bar: Biphasic Sleep : 30 Day Summary for the summary, as well as links to each of the 30 day trial posts. Overall I'm extremely happy with it, sleep a little under 6 hours per day (about 1.4 + 4.2), and recommend it highly.

[Pavel Alasheev]

Originally Posted by Scott Bird

Romeo Foxtrot, as another source of information I offer my own experiences. I've been happily biphasic for a couple of months now, and posted my experiences each day during the first 30 days - as well as a detailed summary at the end of this period.

Take a look at Straight to the Bar: Biphasic Sleep : 30 Day Summary for the summary, as well as links to each of the 30 day trial posts. Overall I'm extremely happy with it, sleep a little under 6 hours per day (about 1.4 + 4.2), and recommend it highly.

That sounds very inspiring! I think im going to try it.

By the way I've heard that it's important to be up before 6 am, and the earlier the better. Also, sleep hours before midnight are more valuable than hours after midnight. I.e. in case on monophasic sleep, sleeping from 10pm to 5 am is a lot healthier than from 1am to 8 am. Has anybody heard anything like that?

So in case of biphasic, wouldn't it be better to have the core sleep from 11 pm to 4 am, rather than from 2 to 7. What do you think?

[Minsc]

Originally Posted by Romeo Foxtrot

5) Can the nap be any time during the day (i.e. after lunchtime) or does it have to be at night (i.e. around 8:30pm)

I think you center it around the middle of the day.

So: d=(a+b)-(c/2)
a - Start of first nap(in minutes since midnight)
b - Length of first nap. (minutes)
c - Length of second nap. (minutes)
d - Start of second nap.. (minutes since midnight...)

You can pick how long to make the naps but the second nap is usually 90 minutes and the first is a factor of 90 minutes.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Minsc

I think you center it around the middle of the day.

Minsc, I tried moving the nap from the evening to the afternoon (Straight to the Bar: Napping in the afternoon talks about how it went), but it didn't work for me personally. The current routine - a 90 minute nap starting around 7-7:30pm, and 4.5 hours' core sleep starting at 2-2:30am, works for me.

Pavel, regarding sleep before midnight rather than sleep after, two of the main reasons for starting the core sleep so late are :

1. the start time is about when I went to bed anyway during monophasic sleep (so the adaptation is that much easier)
2. the end time aligns with the time that other people in my life wake up, so there are minimal feelings of experimentation and isolation.

The quality of sleep at these times has also turned out to be extremely high.

[David Hausladen]

Originally Posted by Trustme

I am a firm believer in the 30day challenges/trials, whatever you would like to call it. For me it's 21days because I prefer the number and there is this saying "it takes 21 days to build a habit".

I think the rationale behind a 30-day trial as opposed to 21 days is that you go through the 21 days that build the habit, and then once it's built (so you don't have to exert a lot of energy to maintain it), the remaining 9 days allow you to get a feel for what life is actually like with the new habit so you can objectively evaluate it.

[Trustme]

true but for me a 30day cycle brings some temptation to wait the couple of days until the first of the month and when I fail I am tempted to wait until the next 1st of the month etc.... It's just a mind thing I guess but everyone should find his personal way to do it.

It's a great concept. Actually I would name it the single most effective strategy that turned various parts of my life around - fitness, procrastination, nutrition and of course my sleeping habits.

Regards
Volkmar

[Romeo Foxtrot]

So I tried to do a 1.5 hour nap last night around 7pm, I think I probably got more like 40 minutes to an hour though as it took me a while to fall asleep. I then wen to bed around 1am with the intention of waking up around 5:30. I didn't feel refreshed and hit the snooze until a little after 6. Right now I feel pretty tired, but I guess that just means I'll fall asleep easier for my nap later.

[Scott Bird]

Originally Posted by Romeo Foxtrot

So I tried to do a 1.5 hour nap last night around 7pm, I think I probably got more like 40 minutes to an hour though as it took me a while to fall asleep.

For the first week or so (it took me about that long to adjust to the new sleep schedule) I allowed an extra 20-30 minutes just to fall asleep. After being biphasic for a while you'll find it easier to get to sleep quickly, and wake up without the alarm (I always set it as a backup though).

With the snooze button, if you can manage to, avoid it. It really won't help things.

[Jehosephat]

I'm curious as to how everyone schedules meals and exercise, particularly around the nap phase. I don't think I could take a nap right after I ate, and I'm usually ready to and eat right after work. Do you usually exercise after the nap or in the moring after the core sleep?

[Scott Bird]

In my case, there really wasn't any change to diet and exercise schedules when I switched to biphasic sleep. I generally eat several small meals per day (rather than a few large ones), and the last meal before the nap is about 2 hours beforehand. I eat again shortly after the nap.

I also avoid caffeine for a few hours before sleeping (either the nap or core sleep), but I've been doing that for ages.

In terms of exercise, mid-afternoon seems to suit me best (if I can schedule things around it - otherwise I take whatever I can get).

[Romeo Foxtrot]

When I told my girlfriend I was going to be trying this out, she got bummed out because she said we wouldn't be able to hang out in the evening anymore. I admit taking an hour and a half nap in the middle of the evening is an inconvenience, if I didn't have work I'd much prefer it in the late afternoon

[Trustme]

Move it to an earlier spot. Shouldn't be a problem as long as you get your nap at more or less the same time every day. I hope you are aware that when you tell people that you play around with your sleep they are going to tell you that you will get a) a heart attack b) get impotent or c) lose your sanity.

[LaGrange123]

I'm really interested in this whole biphasic sleep idea, but I had some questions that have been keeping me from diving into it right away.

I'm a high school student (still a teen) and I am a bit concerned about the detrimental effects that reduced sleep could have on:

1. my school performance
2. my health (hormones, growth, etc.)

I know that everyone on the forums seems to have been doing really well with the altered sleep schedule in terms of alertness and energy and cognitive function, but being a student in high school, I was thinking it might be different for me. But I'm no expert, so I was looking for some advice.

[Kaspian]

LaGrange,

I don't have a definitive answer, but here's what I can tell you:

Claudio Stapmi—who has probably done the most, if not the only, research on polyphasic sleep—sleeps ~6 hours at night and naps for ~15 minutes during the day. (See the bottom of page 4 of Miles to Go Before I Sleep.) He also mentions that there are times when we are more likely or less likely to fall asleep easily. Easy to nap in the early to mid-afternoon, hard to nap between 6 and 8pm. (That matches my experience, too.)

The Goggle Group on Polyphasic Sleep chose not to allow members under the age of 18 because they were concerned about the possible health and growth effects. Because there's so little research, nobody really knows; they're just speculating based on what is known about monophasic sleep. However, the Google Group focuses mostly on polyphasic schedules, not biphasic schedules.

There are cultures that generally sleep biphasically (think Latin American siesta), which implies that sleep schedules are partly cultural.

[LouieAnne]

Well, from what I've read online, what you've said so far seems pretty accurate. I am planning to switch to a biphasic schedule starting... today actually. However, I do have one question--does it make a difference whether you get your core sleep first or last? In other words, are there arguments for or against taking the ninety-minute nap first, staying up, and then going to sleep for good, versus doing core sleep, getting up, and then taking the nap?

I think the main argument for taking the nap first is that the core sleep would theoretically leave you more refreshed for the next day. The ninety minutes would be fueling only about 4 or 4.5 hours of awakeness, whereas the 4-hour core nap would be fueling eight or more hours.

[Jduester]

Originally Posted by LouieAnne

Well, from what I've read online, what you've said so far seems pretty accurate. I am planning to switch to a biphasic schedule starting... today actually. However, I do have one question--does it make a difference whether you get your core sleep first or last? In other words, are there arguments for or against taking the ninety-minute nap first, staying up, and then going to sleep for good, versus doing core sleep, getting up, and then taking the nap?

I think the main argument for taking the nap first is that the core sleep would theoretically leave you more refreshed for the next day. The ninety minutes would be fueling only about 4 or 4.5 hours of awakeness, whereas the 4-hour core nap would be fueling eight or more hours.

How is your biphasic schedule going?