Ate meat for the first time in over a year

[Double]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Different types of chicken and meatballs.

Oh ok, was thinking it would be an interesting experiment to eat a big honking piece of cooked whole steak after being RawWie for so long.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Double

Oh ok, was thinking it would be an interesting experiment to eat a big honking piece of cooked whole steak after being RawWie for so long.

RawWie? I haven't been raw.

[agnostic]

The only reason you could have problems with meat is if your body had stopped producing the digestive juices needed for digesting meat due to a prolonged period of vegetarianism. Apparently you are not at that stage. But I would guess that your intestinal flora is different from a meat-eater and thus not that suited to meat in the diet. This would change if you'd continue to eat meat, though.

[Virtue121]

Who ever develops their compassion to a certain degree of purity: they will refrain from meat eating. It is possible for someone who is not that compassionate to become a vegetarian but it is not possible that someone who is deeply compassionate to become a meat eater.

People who become vegetarians for other reasons may fall down again into the meat eating habit but those with awakened compassion will not slip back to the uncompassionate diet of meat eating.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Gene

O+ here, what does that indicate about the state of my being?

Update: I searched and found some information here and here and here.

how strange... and interesting... i don't know my blood type, but based on those resources i think it's AB.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by agnostic

The only reason you could have problems with meat is if your body had stopped producing the digestive juices needed for digesting meat due to a prolonged period of vegetarianism.

In my experience, this is not true at all.

My body definitely has difficulties digesting meat. It makes my stomach hurt, sits like a stone in my guts, takes days to be digested, slows the whole digestion down with all the bad digestive consequences this has, it also makes me aggressive and nervous (even with sadistic or murderous impulses), causes nightmares and insomnia and most of all it just makes me STINK.

Maybe the reason for all this is that my body does not produce the digestive juices needed for digesting it - but this is certainly not due to a prolonged (or any) period of vegetarianism. I was raised on a meat producing farm as a daily meat eater and had never stopped eating meat daily from almost my birth until I had my first vegan trial. It's only then that I noticed how bad it had been for me before! I felt an extreme positive effect when I quit eating it.

Maybe some people are just not adapted genetically to eating meat, whether they are/were vegetarians or not.

I'm blood type A. Those are said to do better on a vegetarian diet. However, I don't really believe in the blood type diet, because type As are also said to do great on lots of grains. And grains are totally bad and unhealthy for me, even worse than meat actually. So...

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Virtue121

Who ever develops their compassion to a certain degree of purity: they will refrain from meat eating. It is possible for someone who is not that compassionate to become a vegetarian but it is not possible that someone who is deeply compassionate to become a meat eater.

People who become vegetarians for other reasons may fall down again into the meat eating habit but those with awakened compassion will not slip back to the uncompassionate diet of meat eating.

This is an extreme and judgmental viewpoint. In my opinion, things are rarely as black and white as some people would like.

For example, does the LOA not apply to animals? For any animal with the intention not to be eaten it is universally impossible that the animal attract being eaten. In the end, there are no victims only co-creators or participants.

When I eat an animal I feel great compassion and gratitude for the animal who gave its life for me to eat it. I never eat a living creature or plant without deeply feeling and acknowledging the offering made to me and I never eat more than my body asks for.

For a long time I felt tremendous guilt at eating an animal, which is why I became vegetarian, but after some time realized guilt is a poor reason to do anything and that it is not up to me to alter or judge the balance which the planet regulates herself. Obviously, we are all so different from one another. Some people clearly thrive on a vegetarian diet, others do not and I disagree that this has to do with levels of consciousness or awakened compassion. In fact, some of the most compassionate and enlightened people on the planet eat a moderate amount of animal flesh (Dalai Lama, Louise Hay, Eckhart Tolle).

In essence, extremist and militant views are rarely the answer and you won't get very far with meat eaters by telling them they lack compassion.

I like this article written by a vegetarian on the matter: Olivia Rosewood: Yoga Levels: Meat Eaters are More Spiritual than Vegetarians

[rei]

i agree with Michelle. there are people with incredible compassion for all life who eat animals. it's actually impossible to avoid all forms of murder, whether we allow our windshield to harm insects (or the windshield of mass transit), or even by walking around we step on countless microorganisms and i doubt they survive.

i did become a vegetarian at one point, compassion was a motivator in my decision. but i have compassion for all animals, and that includes humans. i ended up in a different living situation and it became a great strain in the environment for me to maintain my choice. now i eat meat occasionally but i always give my thanks to the animal for giving its life. i also thank animals that give a part of themselves (such as for making dairy products).

i don't really like to eat animals, but i wouldn't say i feel guilty about it (though i did at one time). guilt trips are not the most conscious way to influence people, they often end up encouraging someone to make a choice for less skillful/affirming reasons. talking AT people (preaching) instead of talking TO them does not seem to show much respect for the equality of human animals either.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Michelle

When I eat an animal I feel great compassion and gratitude for the animal who gave its life for me to eat it.

I think the farmer or slaughter house operator gives the lives, not the animal.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Beuford

I think the farmer or slaughter house operator gives the lives, not the animal.

but the consciousness which exists in the animal CHOOSES to be in that situation. it allows that experience to unfold, perhaps to repay a karmic debt or for some other reason. i'm not saying it is right to kill animals, but i am saying the animating eternal essence of the animal makes the choice to be in that situation before it is born as that animal.

[agnostic]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

In my experience, this is not true at all.
My body definitely has difficulties digesting meat.

I guess sometimes a mixed diet is enough. You were talking about grains, for example. Personally, I would doubt that there is a genetic reason for humans to have problems with meat. But if you're happy this way, best of luck.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by agnostic

I guess sometimes a mixed diet is enough. You were talking about grains, for example.

I admit that I don't know what you mean.

Personally, I would doubt that there is a genetic reason for humans to have problems with meat. But if you're happy this way, best of luck.

I don't know! My whole point was that you said only a prolonged period of vegetarianism could lead to problems with meat, and I replied that my body had problems with meat even without having ever been a vegetarian before. Maybe the reason for that is not genetic but otherwise physiological, I don't know, but that's not really relevant.

[agnostic]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I admit that I don't know what you mean.

Okay, I'll try again.

You don't need to have been a vegetarian. So in that regard I would take back my statement. It was aimed at the original post, who was a long-term vegetarian.
My guess was that you can become unable to digest meat due to other parts of your diet. The thing is that to digest meat you need hydrochloride in your stomach. Its production may be hindered or adapted against by some components of a mixed diet. My guess was that it's probably grains. But this is just a guess, really. I have nothing to back it up.

Hope it's clearer now.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by rei

but the consciousness which exists in the animal CHOOSES to be in that situation. it allows that experience to unfold, perhaps to repay a karmic debt or for some other reason. i'm not saying it is right to kill animals, but i am saying the animating eternal essence of the animal makes the choice to be in that situation before it is born as that animal.

Who would choose to be a tortured and slaughtered animal, for the sake of part of someones dinner? What makes you believe this is true?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by agnostic

Okay, I'll try again.

You don't need to have been a vegetarian. So in that regard I would take back my statement. It was aimed at the original post, who was a long-term vegetarian.

Ooohhh! Now I gotcha! I thought you meant it in a general way.

My guess was that you can become unable to digest meat due to other parts of your diet. The thing is that to digest meat you need hydrochloride in your stomach. Its production may be hindered or adapted against by some components of a mixed diet. My guess was that it's probably grains. But this is just a guess, really. I have nothing to back it up.

Aaaahhh! Now I got that too! And I agree with you. I did extensive long-term experiments with my diet for the last decade and I found that I do better for example on raw plants + meat than on raw plants + meat + grains and other cooked starches or sugar. However, I tried out all possible kinds of combinations and found out that when all other elements in diet, exercise, emotional life etc. remain equal, I do better without meat.

But anyway. To each their own. We're all unique.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Michelle

For example, does the LOA not apply to animals? For any animal with the intention not to be eaten it is universally impossible that the animal attract being eaten. In the end, there are no victims only co-creators or participants.

Originally Posted by rei

but the consciousness which exists in the animal CHOOSES to be in that situation. it allows that experience to unfold, perhaps to repay a karmic debt or for some other reason.

If you believe in such things, yes. But then the same applies to a murdered human person, a beaten wife or a raped child.

In my eyes, what counts is that no matter what someone chooses to experience at soul-level, or attracts based on karma or LoA, we still are facing the choice to inflict violence upon others or not. This is not about them, it's about us.

Killing someone, whether you feel compassionate or not when you eat them afterwards, is an act of violence inflicted upon them. I'm not saying there's anything "bad" or "wrong" with that. It's just something that we choose to do or not.

I agree that guilt is a poor reason to do anything. However, the choice of non-violence is not necessarily based on guilt or moral judgment. It's simply about the kind of energies that we choose to create in our lives or bring into them.

[Dimond]

The majority of health issues are not obvious. So eating meat or anything else can be toxic to you without you even knowing it. Not getting sick afterwards means absolutely nothing in regards to whether that meat had a negative effect or not. Unhealthy is unhealthy. Meat isn't healthy and tons of other foods aren't-regardless of your blood type. Most will show ill effects in other ways and usually in serious illnesses.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Aaaahhh! Now I got that too! And I agree with you. I did extensive long-term experiments with my diet for the last decade and I found that I do better for example on raw plants + meat than on raw plants + meat + grains and other cooked starches or sugar. However, I tried out all possible kinds of combinations and found out that when all other elements in diet, exercise, emotional life etc. remain equal, I do better without meat.

But anyway. To each their own. We're all unique.

That's interesting what you discovered by experimenting with your eating habits. I never would have thought eating grains could affect meat digestion, although I know a lot of people have problems with grains.

One of my friends has similar problems as you with eating meat. She wasn't a vegetarian for very long before she started having terrible reactions to meat. She has to be really careful at restaurants, for instance, where there might be a meat-based sauce that isn't obvious.

In contrast, a friend's brother was vegetarian for many years and very close to being vegan, and he went back to eating meat because he was looking for a solution to his escalating type 2 diabetes. And he's had no problems at all with his new diet.

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

That's interesting what you discovered by experimenting with your eating habits. I never would have thought eating grains could affect meat digestion, although I know a lot of people have problems with grains.

Though I don't know how it affects my digestion personally, I have noted that eating lots of carbs, particularly sweets and grains, dramatically reduces my taste for meat.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

If you believe in such things, yes. But then the same applies to a murdered human person, a beaten wife or a raped child.

Yeah, I do believe in "such things". There are no victims, only co-creators. Choosing to see a person or an animal as merely a victim of their circumstance (as opposed to a participant in it) is a very disempowering way of looking at anyone.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Yeah, I do believe in "such things". There are no victims, only co-creators. Choosing to see a person or an animal as merely a victim of their circumstance (as opposed to a participant in it) is a very disempowering way of looking at anyone.

I'm not so sure the animals believe in that though

[rei]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Yeah, I do believe in "such things". There are no victims, only co-creators. Choosing to see a person or an animal as merely a victim of their circumstance (as opposed to a participant in it) is a very disempowering way of looking at anyone.

i agree. there are no victims. the circumstances that look, on the surface, as if they create victims do not create victims. those are lessons chosen for specific reasons (or there are other spiritual reasons involved)... of course this is all my personal understanding. i am elaborating since someone asked me to, and i respect your right to see this differently.

Beuford asked what makes me believe it is true... in my view it is not just belief, it is knowing. i go inside to learn things and this is one of the things i learned... the place i go when i go inside does not look at things in terms of moral rightness, it has a different perspective that i have trouble explaining in words. (besides, right and wrong are subjective; they depend on your frame of reference. and for the record, i do have a pretty strict ethical code, but that is a personal/individual system and what i connect with is something else.) i went through a period when i thought eating animals lacked compassion, then i grew to accept this view of empowerment through choice.

this doesn't mean i sit there and enjoy the suffering of animals as i most certainly don't enjoy it. it is hard to think about and hard to watch, and i often have to remind myself that they chose the experience. i don't have access to all the context - there are spiritual and energetic aspects of the situation. this doesn't mean i think it's 'right', but it does mean the circumstance was chosen for a specific purpose.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by rei

besides, right and wrong are subjective

Absolutely, though I'm not sold on the idea that an animal chooses to be killed for food, I agree that while I might think killing an animal for food is wrong, I'm sure a grizzly bear would think otherwise.

[JMonkey]

With regards to the moralistic issue, are we avoiding the fact that plants are living organisms too. And we have incisor and canine teeth, both or which were evolved to eat meat. Also a world full of vegitarians would be difficult to live in. We're a very resourceful species so we'd make it through, but the world would be overpopulated and underfed.
Well, these views are really only my opinions based on the teachings I've learnt in my lifetime (food chains, biology, etc) but I do find it hard to swallow that the majority vegitarians think of themselves as self-made heroes.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by JMonkey

With regards to the moralistic issue, are we avoiding the fact that plants are living organisms too.

Ahh, a common meat eating argument. Plants don't have brains .

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Yeah, I do believe in "such things". There are no victims, only co-creators. Choosing to see a person or an animal as merely a victim of their circumstance (as opposed to a participant in it) is a very disempowering way of looking at anyone.

In case you hadn't noticed, I believe in such things too. So my point was not to invalidate them. I agree with you that seeing people as mere victims of their life circumstances is disempowering. But that's not what I'm doing.

It seems to me that you didn't get my point, so I'll try again:

I repeat: even though they have chosen to incarnate in such a situation, or are working through some karma, or have attracted it due to the LoA, or any other spiritual explanation, the fact remains that when we face the choice of how to respond to this, we can choose violence, or not.

The whole argument of "we can go ahead because they have chosen it" doesn't make sense to me. Of course we can go ahead. Any choice is valid from the spiritual viewpoint. The point is: is this what we want to create in our life?

It's not like we have to go around killing, beating, raping and torturing all the people who for spiritual reasons have chosen it. We still have the choice to resonate with their vibes or not. We have the choice to bring some energies into our life and others not. That is a choice.

That is OUR choice. I repeat, it's not about them here, it's about us. They might have chosen whatever they have chosen - but we have free will too. Their choice of experiencing violence is not relevant in the moment we are facing our choice of creating violence or not. Or to put it like this, our choice to resonate with their violent vibes or not.

Because this is often misunderstood, I'd like to repeat that this issue is not about moral rightness. There is nothing wrong or bad with eating meat. There is also nothing wrong or bad with choosing to create violence in the world, or any other negative energy. I'm not saying everybody should avoid it. To me it is very important to do so, but to others this might not be that important. That's perfectly fine.

My whole point is that it is our conscious choice. We cannot abdicate our responsibility to choose which energies we engage with and which ones we do not engage with, because this responsibility is ours at all times. No matter what choices others make.

In the end it still boils down to the question: do you choose to inflict violence upon others, or not? No moral judgment here, just a choice. Your choice. What others want is not relevant in that moment. What counts is which kind of energies *you* want to have in your life.