How do you beat tiredness?

[toasterwater]

As a full time college student, I do alot of reading/studying, etc. I don't mind this, I actually enjoy it, but apparently my body would rather sleep than study...
so I have to come up with ways to maintain alertness (Trying to study while feeling tired/fighting sleep is one of my least favorite activities).

Currently I use several methods. While studying, I listen to loud, energetic music, chew on sunflower seeds, drink water, sip on coffee (if needed), keep the room well lit, and crack a window for fresh air. I also try to take breaks and do push ups intermittently to keep the blood flowing. On top of this, I try to get adequate sleep and eat healthy.

These strategies definitely help, but I still sometimes feel tired, making it difficult to study, even if i shouldn't (i.e, i had plenty of sleep, adequate meals, etc.).

So what helps you battle fatigue/tiredness?

Oh yeah, and I've thought of just taking naps when I feel tired, but it seems to me that there should be another, more productive way to go about it, especially knowing some people who sleep a lot less than i do, and still do more stuff.

[The Big D]

If I'm tired, I sleep. If I'm tired and can't sleep because I have something to do, I drink coffee, and then book some extra sleep time for that night. If I find I'm perpetually tired I take a relaxing vacation - I'm fond of hot springs amongst other things.

Not sure those strategies will work for you, but it's what I've got. My experience is that most people who sleep very little end up regretting it down the road in the form of exhaustion, physical or mental illness, or burnout.

[Thomas H]

It doesn't sound like you're getting enough sleep at night. When you get enough sleep you don't feel tired. Feeling tired is your body telling you that you need more rest.

You might be surprised at how much sleep your body needs because the majority of people don't get enough of it. How much sleep do you average per night?

Caffeine isn't good for you either. Stay away from stimulants, it's just a band-aid for what you're body is really craving, high quality sleep and rest.

Healthy diet and physical activity also effect your sleep requirements. Eat super unhealthy and you'll need more sleep. Work out real hard and you'll need more sleep.

[aggie]

i don't know why anyone would want to sleep just 4 hours unless they needed to.

too little sleep can shorten your life.

i think fighting the feeling of wanting to sleep is horrible and you are ignoring your body's need for rest and for regeneration and restoration. you are throwing off cortisol and insulin and all those other nasty hormones that affect your health, energy and weight.

do you have time to exercise or eat healthily?

there are always times when sleep hours are going to get cut into and unavoidable from time to time, but intentionally...more power to you...not for me.

besides do you think guys like trump needs to worry about doing all the other mundane things in life....he has personal chefs, housekeepers, valets, accountants, trainers. limos and jets which he probably catches a wink or two on

of course, if a few years of sleep deprivation can get you that, well, then now, there ya go!

[Curtis2011]

I found that if I go to bed at 9pm and wake up at 5-6am, I am alert for the whole morning and most of the day.

Of course, that is almost impossible in college , but probably would be best for me.

[SatvikBeri]

I've found that Steve's method of waking up at the same time every day is really helpful (even though I only do it halfheartedly, it's made a huge difference for me). Also, diet and exercise are a big big deal for me-if I eat inorganic meat I'm basically doomed for the rest of the day, and if I don't exercise at least a little I get tired much more easily.

[toasterwater]

I appreciate all of your input, but I think some of you are making incorrect assumptions (which of course is my fault for not putting out enough info).

But first, I would like to debate the common assumption that most of you seem to be basing your responses on.

Easily summed up by this quote from Thomas H: "When you get enough sleep you don't feel tired."

Based on personal experience I find that to be completely false. I try to get "enough sleep" every night, but first you have to determine what exactly is "enough sleep". Currently I'm trying to get 6 hours per night. I have however slept for many different lengths of time, and during any day, having slept for any length of time the night prior, I can still end up feeling tired.

To expand on the above, I have gone weeks on end sleeping until i feel like rolling out of bed, this may end up being 12 hours or more! During those days, I still can feel tired, in fact, days that I sleep too much, I feel groggy and more tired all day. So we know that you can sleep too much. It's obvious already that you can sleep too little, cuz i'm sure everyone has tried to operate all day on a few hours of sleep or less the night before. So we know you can sleep too little. Now, I would like to point out that there are times that I feel awake and alert all day, on various amounts of sleep. I've gone days where I only got 3 hours the night before and felt fine all day, so on and so forth.

All of this draws me to conclude that feeling tired and sleepy is not NECESSARILY a product of not getting enough sleep. Further evidence of this concept is seen when you do something to "wake yourself up". I'm sure I'm not the only one who has felt tired, and then done something (aside from going to sleep) that "wakes" me up. Such "things" may simply be changing activities from something more sedentary (like reading or writing) to something more active (exercising, building something, playing an instrument, playing a game, etc).

Now that that's out of the way, I would like to note that in addition to getting "enough" sleep, I also believe I eat a relatively healthy diet. I don't eat sweets, typical junk foods, or drink sodas or alcohol on a regular basis. I do consume fruits and vegetables and lots of water every day. I'm not a vegetarian (although I did try it for 6 months a few years ago) but I also don't eat excessive amounts of meat in a day.

So with all of the above information, I would like to re-ask my first question. What do you do (if anything) - aside from taking a nap - to combat/eliminate/postpone/mitigate the feeling of fatigue or sleepiness?

For those of you stuck on the sleep subject, imagine that you have slept a full night's sleep, and for some crazy reason, feel tired anyway... whether you worked a long day, or are studying a lot, or it's cloudy outside, or whatever the reason you want to imagine.

I am open to diet suggestions, so if you have particular foods that you include in your diet that you have seen specifically increase your energy levels, feel free to include those (and while some ideas may work really well, I may not be able to afford/justify some expensive options, so maybe try to keep it to generic foods, i.e grapefruit, squash, bread, pasta, steak, fish, nuts, etc...). Also, while I don't want to hear "sleep more", if you sleep in a different manner (biphasic/polyphasic, etc.) and have definitely seen big improvements in your alertness/wakefulness levels, etc. feel free to comment with that.

Thanks!

[ragtag]

I find the right amount of sleep and a REGULAR sleeping pattern to be most important. I need about 7:30-8:00 hours of sleep, 6:00 is too little for me. I believe the average is around 8 hours a night in general.

I also find that it's not just how much I slept that night, but loosing sleep in the weekend, can affect me long into the week. Seeing the benefits of a regular sleeping pattern can easily take me a week.

Otherwise, you seem to be doing everything more or less right. Exercise, diet and so on. Maybe taking longer exercise breaks, like going for a run or to the gym for an hour, would help reset your mind a bit, and make it easier to keep studying when you get back.

Finally, do you snore or sound like you're choking when you sleep, or live in a very noisy area. This might seriously affect the quality of the sleep you're getting. I have a friend that had problems with this, who was often tired during the day, even though he got 8 hours of sleep.

[isufreak24]

If you're anything like me, your body has natural energy cycles throughout the day.

For me, I am almost always sharp and alert in the mornings (a workout right after waking helps), and my energy starts to fade almost immediately after lunch, often picking back up an hour or two after dinner until I begin winding down for bed.

I guess what I'm trying to get at, is maybe instead of fighting it, it's best to schedule the most mind-intensive work when you are sharpest during the day, then be content with less-productive/energized phases at other times. I don't think it's part of human nature to have consistently high energy levels all the time (though I'm extremely jealous of those that seem too).

[Thomas H]

I'm not sure where your reasoning for six hours of sleep per night as sufficient comes from, but if you're only willing to sleep six hours per night, I'd think you're doomed to remain feeling tired and groggy.

The term "enough" varies from case to case. Depending on many variables of lifestyle. In my personal experience my body will not allow me to sleep for 12 hours a day for three weeks straight. I will wake up because if my body doesn't require that much sleep it physically won't let me sleep that much. I'll be awake.

Your body doesn't let you sleep more than you need. What's commonly referred to as "over tiredness" or "sleeping too much" is generally a symptom of a larger health issue.

[toasterwater]

I'm not sure where your reasoning for six hours of sleep per night as sufficient comes from, but if you're only willing to sleep six hours per night, I'd think you're doomed to remain feeling tired and groggy.

I'm basing 6 hours on the concept of my sleep cycles being approximately 90 minutes each, and going for 6 of these. I think 6 hours should be enough based on past experiences. I can remember long stretches of time getting about 6 hours of sleep per night, and I'm pretty sure it worked well enough (this was when I had a full time job). I'm not saying that 6 hours enough yet... I'm saying that I think it should be enough, and if I can get it to work, I may be satisfied with that. It may well turn out that I require 7.5 hours... I also don't find it too absurd an idea that 4.5 hours may do the trick with creative day planning.

I guess I need to start a trial... A 30 day sleeping trial would probably give me enough evidence to decide if 6 hours works... The goal would be to only get 6 hours of sleep per night, no matter what. I've already seen that I can push past a spell of fatigue, and catch a second wind that carries me through the rest of the evening easily...

Anyway, I'd like to reemphasize that I'm not saying "I know that 6 hours is enough". But I do think a lot of others are saying something to the contrary. I try to keep an open mind. I feel that clinging to a belief without ever questioning it can be dangerous at most... and have the possibility of being ineffective at the least. I find it interesting that few people (in this thread) have even opened their minds to the possibility that I (or they) might not require that much sleep.

[toasterwater]

Your body doesn't let you sleep more than you need.

I disagree 100%. I have slept for many more hours than I could possibly need, on many occasions. It's seen in the difference between waking up when my alarm goes off, and proceeding to have a good day, or turning off my alarm and sleeping for another 6 or 7 hours (totaling upwards of 12 hours) and then having trouble going to sleep that night.

I wish it was true, cuz this wouldn't even be an issue if my body just stopped allowing me to sleep when I've had "enough"... but that's not the case.

[toasterwater]

What's commonly referred to as "over tiredness" or "sleeping too much" is generally a symptom of a larger health issue.

What is this larger health issue? If what you claim is true, maybe I can fix my sleep issue by curing some unknown (to me) ailment that has apparently been afflicting me intermittently throughout the course of my life...

That would be great!

[HAGITLOVE]

I find it very helpful, did it myself, I was getting tired, so I started exercising 2-3 times a week, it gets me more energy.
Find the time and do something you like, it can be anything from dancing to swimming to horse back riding.
Good luck

[Gasokai]

Hi toasterwater,

I had my battle with the "tiredness" in the past. Currently I don't feel tired during the day, I go sleep at 9:00 pm and get up at 5:11 am. Well on weekends I often make exceptions, but few doesn't brake my routine. Just to clarify only form I consume any caffeine is tea.

You've seem to already have got many points right, so there isn't much more I can add except my own thoughts about things, maybe you can get some fresh bits out of it and tweak your own life:

* Quality of sleep - This is important thing to take account. Also the things that affect your sleep. Two main things pop into my head, first is alcohol and second one is food. Yes if you eat right before you go to sleep it will affect your sleep, so its good to eat about two hours before going to sleep.
* Sleeping enough - I wouldn't go under 8hrs and over 10hrs to get best performance. Too much will cause you to be groggy all day. Forming the habit of going to bed and waking up regular times is big point here.
* Eating and drinking - Regular meals are key here, also eating lightly more frequently works for me.
* Exercise - Walk in the woods does make your brains work harder than solving any crossword puzzle. Also helps you to sleep better and stay in shape. Also in my own experience walking really helps you think better.
* Routines - Its all about routines really, you need to recognize when is the best for you to study and when its good time to do the chores. Meditation routine in the evening has helped some to get good night sleep.

That's about all I can say, anyway thumbs up for you, hopefully you are able to feel alert all day everyday!

[ginkgo]

Mariah Carey has had more #1 songs ever than anyone else except the Beatles. So she thinks that she is super-human just like you do. Several years ago she had a nervous breakdown. She said that it was due to lack of sleep.

If you need 12 hours sleep then you have another problem like depression or a brain tumor. See a good ND to see if he can figure it out. You could have mono. You could have Epstein-Barr. You could have tiny holes in your colon. You could have candida overgrowth. See this webpage under headaches for advice on figuring out what is wrong. Also keep in mind that you pay someone and they try to help you for money like a prostitute. But nobody really cares about you except for you. "Physician heal thyself."

[toasterwater]

@HAGITLOVE & Gasokai thanks for the feedback!

Mariah Carey has had more #1 songs ever than anyone else except the Beatles. So she thinks that she is super-human just like you do. Several years ago she had a nervous breakdown. She said that it was due to lack of sleep.

you jump to several illogical conclusions in this statement. first off... I never said i thought i was super-human. secondly, the tiny bit of data you present about mariah carey cannot possibly lead to the conclusions you have made about her situation. You don't know that she thinks she is super human, and just because she said it was due to a lack of sleep doesn't mean that's true. maybe she wants to believe it was lack of sleep, but it was actually due to emotional stress, drugs, or some other problem we don't know about. additionally, even if it was a lack of sleep, that doesn't tell us how much sleep she got, or how much she should have gotten. maybe she was only sleeping for 3 hours per night, and should have been sleeping for 6.

Also, I'm not sure what the definition of a "nervous breakdown" is. Does that mean that she was hospitalized and unable to operate on a normal basis for months-years? or maybe it means she was sad for a couple of days or a week and cried a lot and didn't leave the house. maybe it means that while in a public place, she acted contrary to what spectators thought to be normal, and other people decided it was a nervous breakdown.

If you need 12 hours sleep then you have another problem like depression or a brain tumor. See a good ND to see if he can figure it out. You could have mono. You could have Epstein-Barr. You could have tiny holes in your colon. You could have candida overgrowth."

I don't need 12 hours of sleep. I said that sometimes I sleep for 12 hours (usually not 12 straight hours, but maybe 6 hours, then i wake up, then a few more, and i wake up and roll over again, etc). I was saying this to make the point that my body is capable of sleeping longer than needed. As for all of the diseases you listed... I don't know much about them, and I suppose it's possible that I'm afflicted by one or the other, or something similar... But honestly, I believe it's unlikely enough that I don't want to spend money to ask a doctor what he thinks... And as I'm not well educated in the medical field, I don't think I'm qualified to determine for myself if i do have these conditions... Maybe I'm wrong and there's an easy check, but I haven't done the research, nor have I thought it necessary to spend the time researching it. If someone knows of an easy way to determine if i have one of those exotic diseases, please let me know. Otherwise I'll have to live with the slight uncertainty for a while.

Also keep in mind that you pay someone and they try to help you for money like a prostitute. But nobody really cares about you except for you. "Physician heal thyself."

I like that =) It'd be nice to be able to care for all of my own medical needs without having to pay a doctor. I currently have a minor wound on my foot that I think may have gotten infected... but I'm trying to just keep it as clean as possible (i think it got infected before i started taking care of it...lol) and let it heal on its own. I doubt a doctor would really have much more to offer than what I'm doing on my own. At the same time... if anything too out of the ordinary starts happening.. I may wanna get it checked out!

[toasterwater]

I'd like to reemphasize the point of this thread...

What do you do to beat tiredness/fatigue?

If you have something useful to suggest along these lines, please contribute. If you are just going to stress the importance of sleep (which I have not denied), please start another thread with the goal of discussing the importance of sleep.

Thanks to all of you who are providing good feedback related to the topic!

A good idea that has been brought up is to try to incorporate a longer physical activity during times of day that I might get tired.

I also recently made an observation of my own. I realized (this is pretty obvious, but I guess I wasn't thinking about it before) that I sometimes get tired after eating! I feel so silly because I was actually a vegetarian for about six months because of this concept. I stopped because something happened in my life and I was depressed for a long time, and eventually stopped caring. But I'm thinking I may want to start incorporating some vegetarianism in my life.

I think I'll start looking for vegetarian recipes that are as economical as the meat containing counterparts I currently dine on. Maybe I'll start yet another thread for that...

[Beuford]

I beat tiredness by going to bed at 11-12 each night, and waking up when the sun coming through the window wakes me up - 6:30, 7:30, 8:00 - whatever. But if you have to go somewhere early set an alarm just in case . The only other thing that makes me tired is extreme boredom. I beat that by either exercising patience or doing something not boring, which then beats the tiredness.

[Thomas H]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

I'm basing 6 hours on the concept of my sleep cycles being approximately 90 minutes each, and going for 6 of these. I think 6 hours should be enough based on past experiences. I can remember long stretches of time getting about 6 hours of sleep per night, and I'm pretty sure it worked well enough (this was when I had a full time job). I'm not saying that 6 hours enough yet... I'm saying that I think it should be enough, and if I can get it to work, I may be satisfied with that. It may well turn out that I require 7.5 hours... I also don't find it too absurd an idea that 4.5 hours may do the trick with creative day planning.

I guess I need to start a trial... A 30 day sleeping trial would probably give me enough evidence to decide if 6 hours works... The goal would be to only get 6 hours of sleep per night, no matter what. I've already seen that I can push past a spell of fatigue, and catch a second wind that carries me through the rest of the evening easily...

Anyway, I'd like to reemphasize that I'm not saying "I know that 6 hours is enough". But I do think a lot of others are saying something to the contrary. I try to keep an open mind. I feel that clinging to a belief without ever questioning it can be dangerous at most... and have the possibility of being ineffective at the least. I find it interesting that few people (in this thread) have even opened their minds to the possibility that I (or they) might not require that much sleep.

I'm not sure if you made a typo at the top but 6 90 minute sleep cycles would be 9 hours, or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The trial is a great Idea. Calculate how much sleep you're getting per night and then rate your level of alertness on maybe a scale of 1-10 at set times throughout the day?? This is tough though because there's so many variables like when you eat and what you eat too, but it might be overkill to have to keep track of all of that. If you do go this route also remember to take notice of your emotions and your vitality level based on how you feel, like whether or not your starting to feel sick or anything like that.

Don't get me wrong I don't think that it's impossible to survive on 6 hours of sleep. Although I do feel like sooner or later though that not sleeping more than that will catch up to you and manifest other ways. But, Steve Pavlina himself has proved fairly successful w/ polyphasic so..who knows? Guess I should remain open to sleeping less than that for extended stretches to be possible.

[Thomas H]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

I disagree 100%. I have slept for many more hours than I could possibly need, on many occasions. It's seen in the difference between waking up when my alarm goes off, and proceeding to have a good day, or turning off my alarm and sleeping for another 6 or 7 hours (totaling upwards of 12 hours) and then having trouble going to sleep that night.

I wish it was true, cuz this wouldn't even be an issue if my body just stopped allowing me to sleep when I've had "enough"... but that's not the case.

How do you know you've slept more than you could possibly need? Maybe you're body is trying to tell you something so you'll remain inside and get more rest. It's certainly possible.

We may have a conflict w/ our definition of the word need. I tend to believe in the body's infinite wisdom and try not to assert my logical mind over it. The body's nervous system is way more advanced than my logical mind or yours.

[Thomas H]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

What is this larger health issue? If what you claim is true, maybe I can fix my sleep issue by curing some unknown (to me) ailment that has apparently been afflicting me intermittently throughout the course of my life...

That would be great!

There's numerous inner problems you could have especially in your digestive system that can seem to go undetected because we ignore warning signs, like seasonal sickness, flatulence, indigestion among other things.

I believe in a species specific diet, that all humans were designed to eat a certain type of food and if you deviate from that you experience problems that can affect your overall health. I didn't come right out and say this because it's like a big can of worms that most people don't want to look at, don't want to believe or aren't willing to change anyway. If you're more curious about this I can throw down some more info. If not, I'll just shut up now, haha

[Lisa McGregor]

What's your species specific diet?
L

[air nomad]

As a college student, I would assume you're in your early 20s or so?
During adolescence and early young adulthood, the circadian rhythm has shifted forward, which means being active later at night and waking up later in the morning because the inner clock isn't set at the early times adults are. It doesn't really become adjusted until around the mid twenties( or so I've heard in psych class). So basically, don't beat yourself too hard on this because the majority of people around this age have their bodies wired with this problem.

[toasterwater]

I'm not sure if you made a typo at the top but 6 90 minute sleep cycles would be 9 hours, or maybe I'm misunderstanding?

I'm sorry, you are correct. I meant to say 4 90 minute cycles.

[toasterwater]

How do you know you've slept more than you could possibly need? Maybe you're body is trying to tell you something so you'll remain inside and get more rest. It's certainly possible.

Hmm... That seems like a decent argument... I guess I will have to concede to that fact that I believe I have slept for longer periods of time than my body needs... This is based on the fact that I can go relatively long periods of time (I have never kept consistent enough records to know for sure) on less than 12ish hours... so if I sleep for 12ish hours, I find it too much. Plus, If I sleep too long, I stay up too late... Like right now I'm up at 230am cuz I slept till noon... the night before however I went to sleep around midnight. I believe that sleeping for 12 hours was more than my body needed... and now I'm up too late because of it. My logic may be flawed however.

We may have a conflict w/ our definition of the word need. I tend to believe in the body's infinite wisdom and try not to assert my logical mind over it. The body's nervous system is way more advanced than my logical mind or yours.

I don't think of the body as being wise... That seems to give too much human characteristic to the more mechanical (chemical/biological) function of the body. I think I can control Inputs to vary outputs. For instance, If I eat certain foods, I will exhibit more healthy characteristics. That sort of thing. I think of the body as a mechanism that can be mastered. While I do admit that It has it's limitations, I'm also not satisfied with wasting potential. It's kinda like trying to get the best gas mileage out of my car.

[toasterwater]

As a college student, I would assume you're in your early 20s or so?
During adolescence and early young adulthood, the circadian rhythm has shifted forward, which means being active later at night and waking up later in the morning because the inner clock isn't set at the early times adults are. It doesn't really become adjusted until around the mid twenties( or so I've heard in psych class). So basically, don't beat yourself too hard on this because the majority of people around this age have their bodies wired with this problem.

I'm 23. If what your saying is accurate, I apparently don't know very much about these circadian cycles. The thought that my sleep cycles can shift related to my age seem a bit counterintuitive. I would think I could shift them forward or back just by sleeping at different times. But like I said, I should probably research this more. Do you have a resource for me on this subject?

[Emanuel Kingson]

I'd say try to squeeze in a simple 5 minute meditation here and there. That has helped me at times going from heavy tiredness to an energized feeling.

I think stopping the mental noise this way as often as possible during the day will help a great deal.

[toasterwater]

I'd say try to squeeze in a simple 5 minute meditation here and there. That has helped me at times going from heavy tiredness to an energized feeling.

I think stopping the mental noise this way as often as possible during the day will help a great deal.

What specific kind of meditation do you use that is helpful in making you feel more alert/less tired?

[Emanuel Kingson]

This is what I do:


1. Sit or lay down.

2. Close my eyes.

3. Focus on my nostrils like I’m looking at them through my eyelids.

4. Taking deep breaths while focusing/experiencing the feeling of the air going in and out of my nostrils.

And that’s pretty much it. What happens when I focus solely on my breath like that is that there is no thought present at all.

Hope it works for you.