How do you beat tiredness?

[whatinspiresu]

i hate to harp on this, but i thought 8 hours of sleep was supposed to be where its at. in college, id consistently wake up a minute or so before the alarm went off, cuz I got my 8 hours... maybe it was mental... ok, so that behind us...

i think all the things you're doing are great! healthy and effective. but i can see how it might get annoying if you're trying to study.

I have a sluggish thyroid, so I deal with this all the time. Also, I read so slowly that comprehension and retention are even a problem, so the act of reading takes a lot of mental energy for me. If you have no other symptoms of a thyroid problem and you know that you read at a decent speed, ignore this, its merely my own experience. If you do read slowly, theres a program called eyeQ thats supposed to work wonders.

Does it make a difference to study in a public place? That used to help me out a lot.

If you continue to have this problem, I hope that you go see a doctor about it. You deserve to live a happy energetic life!

All the best to you!
Trisha

[toasterwater]

I have a sluggish thyroid, so I deal with this all the time. Also, I read so slowly that comprehension and retention are even a problem, so the act of reading takes a lot of mental energy for me. If you have no other symptoms of a thyroid problem and you know that you read at a decent speed, ignore this, its merely my own experience. If you do read slowly, theres a program called eyeQ thats supposed to work wonders.

I do read slowly... I never considered that as a possible cause to tiredness... but it's an interesting thought...

Can you tell me a little more about this eyeQ thing? Is it free, what does it do, have you used it, do you know others who have... that sort of thing

Thanks for the great post!

[toasterwater]

i thought 8 hours of sleep was supposed to be where its at

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. I don't think there is any kind of scientific support for that claim. If you know of some, please let me know. But seeing as how I know at least one person who functions everyday on 2-3 hours of sleep, I doubt it.

[whatinspiresu]

Im not sure where it came from, but I've always heard that 8 hours was adequate for teens, 7 hours as you get older. Im 37 and still naturally sleep 8 hours a night.

I googled 'what is the right amount of sleep' there's a ton of information there. I usually trust mayoclinic more for health info. found 2 articles that may help. how many hours and 10 tips for better sleep. quality of sleep may be an issue as well.

EyeQ is computer software that helps you read faster. Its really fun! You take a test to calculate your reading speed. Then go through a series of eye exercises, following objects on the screen. Then test your speed again. I did it and my son did it. It helped improve both our reading speeds.

The program was given to me by a friend, I had NO idea that it cost $250. Its very possible that its in your library at school. here's the site if you're still interested... eyeQadvantage

[toasterwater]

@whatinspiresu

Thanks for the links. Those articles were pretty good. They definitely invoke feelings that all those "get more sleep" people may actually be right!

I have to remind myself to not be hypocritical when debating some idea like this. I suppose a goal I have stumbled into (although not the main topic of this thread), is to disprove the 8 hours of sleep theory. Unfortunately, it's dangerous to set out on such an endeavor, as I will tend to be biased, and may find myself trying to refute reasonable arguments from the opposing side.

Alas, my rebellious spirit persists... However, I should change my outlook slightly in light of these opposing beliefs, studies and opinions.

Regardless of how logical it seems to believe in the mainstream 8 hours theory, I still cannot erase the supporting evidence against that school of thought.

I guess it still boils down to experimentation. Unfortunately, I am having a hell of a time trying to experiment with this. It seems like a simple task: sleep 6 hours per night for 30 days, then study the data. However, I feel all but completely void of a routine sleep pattern.

I'm writing this post at 2:15am... I had a long day today preceded by 3 hours of sleep. Around 7-730PM I finally submitted to an enduring sleepy-spell. I didn't set any alarms, and I woke up naturally at 10PM. At this point I had to decide whether I should roll over or get up. It just seemed easier to get up. Now I might consider trying for another 3 hours before school in the morning (or later in the morning anyway), but I'm actually quite awake at the moment.

This is the kind of thing that persists on a seemingly daily basis. It always seems like I'm saying, "okay, tonight I will just stay up 'till bedtime, then get my 6 hours and be fine for the next day". But that's usually on something short of 6 hours and I either don't make it, or occasionally overshoot and end up repeating a shorter night's sleep.

I suppose all I can really do is act determined and try to be patient. In the mean time there are worlds to study, not related to my sleep pattern.

[EPIC Supplements]

tiredness can be cause by a lack of sleep an or a lack of nutrients in the diet. The best way to counter act this is sleeping in better blocks i.e. 20min 40min 1.5 hours 4 hours 8 hours. Also supplementing with a good multivitamin or eneregy (Gurana based supplement)

[toasterwater]

tiredness can be cause by a lack of sleep an or a lack of nutrients in the diet. The best way to counter act this is sleeping in better blocks i.e. 20min 40min 1.5 hours 4 hours 8 hours. Also supplementing with a good multivitamin or eneregy (Gurana based supplement)

Thanks for the post.

I do find it ... interesting ... that your forum name is "EPIC Supplements" and the only posts I've seen from you include advice to take supplements... do you work for a supplement company or something?

Would you agree the the "best" way to counteract a lack of nutrients in your body might be by eating a proper diet, rather than taking pills?

[gigij]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

What do you do to beat tiredness/fatigue?

If you have something useful to suggest along these lines, please contribute. If you are just going to stress the importance of sleep (which I have not denied), please start another thread with the goal of discussing the importance of sleep.

I have to get up at 4:30 several times a week so I often can't sleep as much as I should. I have found that since I started meditating daily and excercising more regularly (just walking the dogs daily) I have been less tired.
Around the same time I also gave up watching TV completely as well ... so maybe that has something to do with it...

[lifeforce]

I was fatuiged and tiered all the time for about two years. But, I realized that I needed to loose some weight, so I joined a gym. To my surprise, I became an energy bomb bubbeling with alertness and awakeness.

So I can only speak for myself. I get more energetic when I actually use more of my physical energy. And eat a lot of protein and healthy fats. And get my vitamins and minerals.

Do you work out? You don´t have to pump iron. Squash is great, jujitsu is great. Salsa dancing classes. Anything fun! Any activity that gets your heartrate up is great for getting more energy.

[Froztwolf]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

@whatinspiresu

Thanks for the links. Those articles were pretty good. They definitely invoke feelings that all those "get more sleep" people may actually be right!

I have to remind myself to not be hypocritical when debating some idea like this. I suppose a goal I have stumbled into (although not the main topic of this thread), is to disprove the 8 hours of sleep theory. Unfortunately, it's dangerous to set out on such an endeavor, as I will tend to be biased, and may find myself trying to refute reasonable arguments from the opposing side.

Alas, my rebellious spirit persists... However, I should change my outlook slightly in light of these opposing beliefs, studies and opinions.

Regardless of how logical it seems to believe in the mainstream 8 hours theory, I still cannot erase the supporting evidence against that school of thought.

I guess it still boils down to experimentation. Unfortunately, I am having a hell of a time trying to experiment with this. It seems like a simple task: sleep 6 hours per night for 30 days, then study the data. However, I feel all but completely void of a routine sleep pattern.

I'm writing this post at 2:15am... I had a long day today preceded by 3 hours of sleep. Around 7-730PM I finally submitted to an enduring sleepy-spell. I didn't set any alarms, and I woke up naturally at 10PM. At this point I had to decide whether I should roll over or get up. It just seemed easier to get up. Now I might consider trying for another 3 hours before school in the morning (or later in the morning anyway), but I'm actually quite awake at the moment.

This is the kind of thing that persists on a seemingly daily basis. It always seems like I'm saying, "okay, tonight I will just stay up 'till bedtime, then get my 6 hours and be fine for the next day". But that's usually on something short of 6 hours and I either don't make it, or occasionally overshoot and end up repeating a shorter night's sleep.

I suppose all I can really do is act determined and try to be patient. In the mean time there are worlds to study, not related to my sleep pattern.

Sounds like you have a VERY inconsistent sleep schedule and that could be a large part of your problem. I have had a problem with keeping energy up in the afternoon but it got a lot better when I started regulating myself to wake up between 7 and 8 every day of the week. While you can train your body to wake up at any hour you shouldn't vary it by more than an hour between days. Yes that includes weekends.

For more info read Steve's very own article How to Become an Early Riser

[danthony]

quick bursts of exercise will help invoke the chemical processes in your brain that helps to trigger alertness and energy. If you are feeling tired and you need energy (and not sleep), try 5 minutes of light stretching, then try something that gets the heart rate up a bit like 25-50 Jumping Jacks. After, do a cool down for about two minutes, breathing and relaxing your breathing. You will be amazed at how well this works.

[Nancy08]

"If we think we are tired or ill, it is only because we have done something to unbalance the bodily conductivity of the universal electric current which motivates it."
--Walter Russell --

[toasterwater]

You know that whole saying ... Master your habits or they will master you...

Well my sleep habits are kicking my ass!

I've been trying to develop a sleep routine - a "regular" sleep routine (something with 1 chunk of sleep during night hours) - for a while now, and I've been failing miserably.

Even on days like today. Yesterday I fell asleep during the evening, but then forced myself to go to sleep around midnight, and got 6 full, solid hours of sleep. Should be enough to make it through the day (I've made it on 3, and 4.5 hours a couple of times in the past few weeks). Yet I fell asleep around 630 this evening! I woke up around 8pm.

I try to find the cause every time, but it's not as easy as it seems...

Today:
I drank plenty of water throughout the day...

Ate a bowl of cereal in soy milk this morning,

had 2 bananas and maybe 10 oz of coffee to keep my brain moving quickly at school,

ate a couple of veggie burgers and some carrots when I came home

I'll admit, the one thing I lacked today was some kind of non incidental exercise (although it hasn't proven very potent in keeping me awake in the recent past)

And I fell asleep shortly after about an hour of playing my guitar.

THE SLEEP DEMON:
It's so frustrating how it happens. I'll be minding my own business, truckin along through my own day, and suddenly it will set in. When it hits, it's almost a sure thing that I'm soon going to crawl onto a soft surface and fall prey to its magic spell.

I have been able to push through it on occasion, emerging energetic and triumphant on the other side... ready for another 6 hours or so... But that is the exception - far from the rule...

I feel as if it requires a perfectly engineered day... one with strategically placed workout sessions and meals, the perfect environment, and an iron will... all in order to... ... ... not fall asleep before bedtime?!?!?!

I know all of you "sleep more" people are thinking "i told you so"... but my intuition still strongly disagrees. I may just be stubborn (quit nodding, I know) but I find it unreasonable that I can't even make it through a full day on 6 hours of sleep. I KNOW that I can do it... I've done it on less. And I honestly question whether bumping it up to 7.5 will really prove beneficial. Not to mention that it just feels like gutting my day to sleep from 10PM to 530AM.

So here I am... at the onset of yet another weekend... with the goals of fully catching up on all my schoolwork, putting in some really good hours of guitar practice, and hopefully (doubtfully... but hopefully) fixing my sleep pattern. And I reflect. Of course I have this sleep problem fixed in my head... but Apparently my own plans never work (or at least haven't been over the past... few weeks/months? I don't even know).

Regardless of what you think is "enough sleep"... the fact remains that most of my peers attending this community college thing work at least part time (I don't even have a job...) probably full time, and definitely sleep a lot less than me. It's really inexcusable for me to have trouble with this. And with the amount of time I've been battling, it's pushing "pathetic" that I seem to not be making any ground.

I dunno... Maybe I should do something extreme... get rid of the soft surfaces that provide a comfy landing or something...

Well, I suppose that's enough ranting for now. If you have constructive advice, feel free to throw it at me.

To all of you who have already provided great feedback: THANKS great stuff so far. Feels like I've got the diet thing under wraps, maybe my next roadblock is just to routinize an exercise program.

[toasterwater]

"If we think we are tired or ill, it is only because we have done something to unbalance the bodily conductivity of the universal electric current which motivates it."

Thanks Nancy, but that couldn't be more vague, and is effectively useless to me. Sorry to be so blunt... but really...

[toasterwater]

quick bursts of exercise will help invoke the chemical processes in your brain that helps to trigger alertness and energy. If you are feeling tired and you need energy (and not sleep), try 5 minutes of light stretching, then try something that gets the heart rate up a bit like 25-50 Jumping Jacks. After, do a cool down for about two minutes, breathing and relaxing your breathing. You will be amazed at how well this works.

Thanks danthony. Definitely looks like solid advice, and I have played with it some. I should use it more often!

[toasterwater]

Sounds like you have a VERY inconsistent sleep schedule and that could be a large part of your problem.

Great advice, really... but my attempts to routinize my sleep are failing miserably (as you can probably tell from my rant a few posts above).

[toasterwater]

Do you work out? You don´t have to pump iron. Squash is great, jujitsu is great. Salsa dancing classes. Anything fun! Any activity that gets your heartrate up is great for getting more energy.

I don't currently have a routine "workout" type activity, no... I would like to maybe start taking some martial arts classes... or dance classes... or both I guess. Just haven't done it yet (I do have to fit it into my schedule too... Still got lot's of school work, some guitar practice, and that "social life" kinda thing to work with). But yeah... that's a bad excuse... I guess a better excuse is justifying something like that financially (haven't received ANY kind of income for ... coming up on 2 months now )

[Brown Eyed Mystic]

When I feel tired, I most probably get a very sound sleep that very night. I understand that as and when we feel tired, we don't neccessarily have the liberty to take a nap. Say, if I feel tired at my workplace, (and that's usually coz I'd have slept late the night before), I get up, wash my face, talk up to a friend/colleague, and at times, I read up something apart from work. (Like visiting these forums ) I try to focus on something else, anything.
TBH, it normally means to ignore the body's need to relax now and make up for it in the night/later part of the day. I am not sure if that's the best practice, but it's like a quickfix.

One another thing that I suppose leads to me feeling tired, in the sense having an aching in some areas of the body, giving off the feel of lethargy is a bad posture. I am hooked on my pc atleast for 10-11 hrs a day. It surely plays a role here and there. So I believe a proper posture, maybe while you're studying and researching, should play a role. And an extended listening to music with the headphones on also makes me feel lethargic to an extent. Somehow. So I tend to avoiding this.

[Thomas H]

Just something to consider for you toasterwater. When I read your rant post above and you talk about this urge you have to crawl in to bed. What if you just acknowledged your urge and willfully sink into sleep, BUT only allow yourself to sleep for 30 minutes. Set alarms, set multiple alarms and do whatever you have to do to get up after 30 minutes. This will prevent you from sleeping 2.5 straight hours. You might still be tired when you get up but that 30 minutes might be able to hold you over a little longer.

[toasterwater]

Just something to consider for you toasterwater. When I read your rant post above and you talk about this urge you have to crawl in to bed. What if you just acknowledged your urge and willfully sink into sleep, BUT only allow yourself to sleep for 30 minutes. Set alarms, set multiple alarms and do whatever you have to do to get up after 30 minutes. This will prevent you from sleeping 2.5 straight hours. You might still be tired when you get up but that 30 minutes might be able to hold you over a little longer.

That's interesting... the thought has crossed my mind, but I haven't tried it because I've kinda assumed that if I sleep for a short time like that, I may wake up in a deep sleep or something and end up more tired than before. Or maybe I would fall into the extended 5-more-minutes/snooze syndrome and have even worse results.

All that said... I haven't actually tried it, but it definitely makes sense, and would be a lot better (than sleeping for 3 hours) if it could tide me over till bedtime.

I think I'll try this at my next opportunity.

I'll post my results.

Thanks!

[toasterwater]

I got 6 hours of sleep last night, and while I woke up a little groggy (i think i got maybe 6.5 hours and woke up in a deep cycle) I never had the need to nap all day.

In fact... It's 1030 and I feel more energetic than I did most of the day... So I have the dilemma of having to force myself to sleep soon... but I guess that's what I have to do...

[PerDev]

Laydown flat on mother earth and embracing her will help.

[TheEnthusiast]

Tiredness can be caused by several different factors. Here is a list of some common causes of tiredness

a recent illness
a current illness
pregnancy
bereavement
moving home
divorce
work problems
jet lag
boredom
lack of sleep
some type of poisoning
a vitamin or mineral deficiency
anemia

[Gene]

Originally Posted by TheEnthusiast

Tiredness can be caused by several different factors. Here is a list of some common causes of tiredness

a recent illness
a current illness
pregnancy
bereavement
moving home
divorce
work problems
jet lag
boredom
lack of sleep
some type of poisoning
a vitamin or mineral deficiency
anemia

While you have listed some things which can be causative factors in situational depression I would also add endogenous depression and other forms of depression not of a temporary nature.

Thanks for posting your list.

[Tim Brownson]

Originally Posted by Thomas H

It doesn't sound like you're getting enough sleep at night. When you get enough sleep you don't feel tired. Feeling tired is your body telling you that you need more rest.

You might be surprised at how much sleep your body needs because the majority of people don't get enough of it. How much sleep do you average per night?

Caffeine isn't good for you either. Stay away from stimulants, it's just a band-aid for what you're body is really craving, high quality sleep and rest.

Healthy diet and physical activity also effect your sleep requirements. Eat super unhealthy and you'll need more sleep. Work out real hard and you'll need more sleep.

Yes and no. There are certain conditions where it simply makes no difference how much sleep you get. Depressions, adrenal fatigue, high stress, certain allergies etc can all leave a person tired if they sleep 20 hours per day.

And of course it's the quality of sleep too. Sleep apnea can make somebody think they are getting plenty of sleep when the quality is very poor and the body is not recovering.

[Thomas H]

Originally Posted by Tim Brownson

Yes and no. There are certain conditions where it simply makes no difference how much sleep you get. Depressions, adrenal fatigue, high stress, certain allergies etc can all leave a person tired if they sleep 20 hours per day.

And of course it's the quality of sleep too. Sleep apnea can make somebody think they are getting plenty of sleep when the quality is very poor and the body is not recovering.

Yea you're right. I overlooked those points. Good Call.

I'm trying polyphasic now myself so I'm not even following my own advice from a week or so ago. Things change quick sometimes.

[toasterwater]

I'm trying polyphasic now myself so I'm not even following my own advice from a week or so ago. Things change quick sometimes.

Thats awesome! How are you going about it? Did you prepare for this endeavor systematically? It's very interesting to me, but I suppose I haven't seen enough success stories to justify attempting it (at least in the middle of a semester). Are you keeping a journal of your experience online somewhere? I'd love to see your progress with it.

Good luck!

[Thomas H]

Click on the link in my post above where it says polyphasic, or click the link in my signature and go to the blog on my page.

[Boldnut]

There always been a trigger inside my mind which would wake me up completely. I would be sitting in the room, listening to the lecture and balancing between awake/asleep state, which is unpleasant. But when I would realise that only a few minutes are left or the speaker would anounce that finish is near, my drowsiness would instantly go away.

I've never managed to do that consciously though, so now I bring a thermos of coffee with me.

[toasterwater]

so now I bring a thermos of coffee with me.

HaHa!

Yeah... I had a realization the other day... I'm not sure how it slipped by, but for some reason I tried to cut down coffee, while trying to regulate my sleep pattern AND increase alertness during the day...

I was on the phone with an old buddy through high school. He's currently going through some very intense (think nothing but studying/reading for 3-4 months straight... classes 5 days a week and all homework on the weekends... very little if any time for breaks) training in network administration or something like that. I was asking how he managed to stay focused. His response was anytime he loses focus he just imagines the $65,000 he's gonna get for completing the training, lol.

Anyway, that didn't help me, but what did was actually something I said. This friend and I "experimented" with adderall back in high school. We basically used it to increase alertness levels and durations while studying calculus. I tend to mention this in common conversation with him. Stuff like "man, if I only had some adderall, haha". Anyway... I remembered that I've already discovered the secret to it. It was just the stimulant effect. I get the same thing from lots of caffeine.

Thus I decided: why am I trying to cut back on coffee? Use it!

Really it's kinda silly not to. People whine about it being bad for you, blah blah blah, "you don't need it", "it's a crutch", "it's just making things harder in the long run", etc. but honestly... it can't be that bad for you. I read an article about the current oldest man in the world (116 i believe) and he drinks coffee with lunch everyday! I know, I know... that's not scientific evidence that it's good, or even not bad for you, but either way, I'm not that worried about it. And until I can figure out how to increase my alertness levels beyond something worth an hour of studying, I'll keep using coffee.

By the way, I think I got my sleep schedule on track. I've been going to sleep at 11 and waking up around 5 for a couple days in a row without napping during the day now! Wooh! Now I just need to keep it there... oh yeah, and maximize my productivity during waking hours.

I had a lot of trouble focusing the first day I was able to stay awake all day... but the second day I did at least 2x as much, maybe 3x as much studying! (sure, this only amounts to 3-4 hours through the course of a day... but it's a start)

Now to see what I can pull off today!

Oh yeah. I'd also like to mention my diet. For those of you concerned about the health factor of drinking coffee... I'm not drinking tons of it. I had maybe a cup and a half yesterday (coffee cup... I'd estimate it's about 10-12 oz) throughout the day. In addition, I drank about 3/4th's of a gallon of water, and had plenty of fruits and vegetables all day, and minimal amounts of meat.

I do still need to get some sort of routine exercise in my life though. I believe that will help.