Martial Arts: which one?

[Majesticzero]

Hello everyone!

I used to do Kung Fu a couple of years ago but didn't have the motivation anymore to do it so I stopped.

I really miss doing martial arts so I want to start again next year. But I want to do something different.

What martial art do you like? So I can check out some different sports.

The one I'm sure to check out is Krav Maga:
Krav Maga video

[joelr]

Depends what you are looking for?

If you want to learn how to fight for real MMA is best. Krav Maga is close, it covers things like how to deal with multiple attackers, knife attacks, gun attacks etc... For one on one mixed martial arts is best as it incorporates boxing, real kickboxing and wrestling/grappling. A large portion of the time is spent actually sparring with gloves/pads and full out submission grappling.

But training is hard and the meditation/spirituality aspects are left out.

The traditional arts usually include some philosophy and meditation such as:

Kung Fu - primarily a "show" activity, and is the most elegant dance like art.

Karate is similar but uses more straight forward punch-kicks. Less fancy movements.

Tae quon do is just like karate but with emphasis on kicks.

Jui Jitsu is mostly grappling, throws, take downs, wrestling

Akido is similar to jui jitsu

The "actual fighting" sports operate more like a boxing or wrestling class, lots of conditioning, drilling basics and contact sparring. Some are:

San Chow - in China when full contact fights are done the fighters do not use Kung Fu they use San Chow or Chinese kickboxing.
Mui Tai - kickboxing
Brazilian Jui Jitsu - sport grappling with gi and no gi
Boxing - America's very effective stand up fighting
Wrestling - olympic sport
Judo - much like Jui Jitsu
American Kickboxing - boxing plus kicks


Those are some of the basics.

[Jarrod]

Agree with joelr, it depends what sort of thing your looking for?

Want to do grappling? Want to practice with weapons? Want sparring? Want kata focus? Want to yell and get physical?

Depending on financial elements you could try a new martial art every 1 or 3 months just to see what they are like and then focus on the one you most enjoy.

Personally I practice the japanese martial arts of Iaido and Jodo. Mainly because it is non-competitive, I get to use a japanese sword (I love them for some reason) and the art has an extreme focus on developing concentration, control and internal power to name a few things.

So play with them and enjoy

[rocksupreme]

You'll have to look around at what is available where you are and pick the one that suits you best. I also recommend choosing a school instead of a style. Styles (or "arts") are only as good as the people who do them, and "karate" at Dojo A may look nothing like the "karate" at Dojo B.

Look for a place that you'll feel good about spending a few hours a week for several years (that includes the people there - some people are no fun to train with). You want to join a school where you see lots of people moving how you want to move. If there's just one awesome guy there and everyone else sucks, you can guess the level of instruction is poor.

[ginkgo]

Tae kwon do is a Korean style of karate like mu duk kwan, hapkido and tang soo do that Chuck Norris does. Whether the style emphasizes kicks or hand strikes depend on the terrain. It is not good to do kicks in an area that is muddy or icy.

It looks like krav maga was made by combining karate with aikido. A lot has to do with the individual teacher, that you learn from. I learned from teachers that did multiple styles like one does tai chi, kenpo karate and gracie-jiu-jitsu.

I know a medical doctor that says that karate is better for his depression than anything. As far as exercise, you do not need any equipment and you do not need to do it outside like running.

I did karate, yoga and gymnastics and my abs were stronger than anyone else. This guy may be the best that there is. Notice the gymnastics (note that Thai kickboxers use a lot of knee and elbow strikes):

YouTube - Tony Jaa live

YouTube - Best Of Tony Jaa

YouTube - Tony Jaa

And some Jet Li:
YouTube - JET LI

[Majesticzero]

Thanks for the posts!

I'm looking for a sport where I can defend myself in the streets. I also
look for a sport where I can give 200% in my trainings. So 'extreme hard' training is really my style. I don't want to train for an hour to only train on one block movement or so like I did with Kung Fu.

I want to train hard like I do in the gym. To give all I got.

[ginkgo]

As far as defense, the mind is the most dangerous weapon. In the movie, The Karate Kid, the bad teacher of the school told his student to sweep Daniel's leg. The student said "no, I can beat him." The teacher says "SWEEP THE LEG!"

Now this will cause the student to be disqualified, but it will hurt Daniel so he will be a cripple in his next fight. So think about it. Use your brain. A cripple is not going to attack you. The teacher was not worried if this student could sweep the leg. No one protects their legs.

So attack the leg. It is easy but it ain't fancy looking. Kick the guy in the shins. The pain will stun him. Then kick his other shin. Then do a downward kick to the side of the knee and it will break it. You cannot do that in movies or demos since it will break the guy's knee.

You can also poke someone in the eyes. A blind person will not attack you. Now if Jaa (see above) does that in a demo and slips and blinds the guy he will be sued for lots of money and people will hate him. If you chop the guy in the throat, you can kill him.

[Jarrod]

Originally Posted by rocksupreme

Styles (or "arts") are only as good as the people who do them

Well said, critical.

[bluedragon]

[edit: After posting, I noticed you said you basically want a hard, external martial art. however, my recommendation could still be of some interest later on]

The martial art that I love the most and I could never get bored of, is Tai Chi. It is not just a combat system, it is also an internal practice and a meditation in movement. It makes you feel more energized, more focussed, you feel your body more "in one piece", as you develop a stronger body structure, better posture, and deeper breathing. However, the power you gain is internal, not external. You will not get physical strength, speed or anything of the sort. However, you will increase your internal strength (as you see Master Wong below), and you will be able to throw people through the air if you will want to. This however should never be the focus, if you are to take up Tai Chi. Also, training should not be hard, not even 101%, not 200% as you say. Tai Chi is all about conserving internal power and gaining more and more, and not wasting it though exercise. It is about building your body, energy, and ultimately your mental and spiritual power, and not about expanding it outwards (except when you actually need to defend yourself).

YouTube - Tai Chi 24-form
and as for combat applications,
YouTube - Tai Chi Combat 1 video Preview

[Dhaval Raja]

Originally Posted by Majesticzero

Thanks for the posts!

I'm looking for a sport where I can defend myself in the streets. I also
look for a sport where I can give 200% in my trainings. So 'extreme hard' training is really my style. I don't want to train for an hour to only train on one block movement or so like I did with Kung Fu.

I want to train hard like I do in the gym. To give all I got.

Which style of kungfu you did? I am sure you know there are more than 50-60 styles of kungfu.
I am learning Wing Chun Kung Fu and I can tell you I never feel I have the limit to go beyond my training session. There are two ways of training if we can say, One is the hard training of getting sweat all over body, the most streneous training and the other type where you repeat a block 500 times slowly is about letting the move fit in your brain. its slow and boring for many but this practice improves your accuracy and ingrains it in your sub-concious mind when the quick micro second action is needed. Its mentally tough.
Forget everything else, just do 100+ situp's keeping hands beyond your head (w/o touching head) and youll reach the extreme limit, your leg would pain for a week if you really go to your limit.
A smart persistent training is important than just streneous.

A good teacher (sifu) is a must and you'll be as strong as your training,
a good and persistent training is more important than any style.

Remember that self-defense and deadly art is different than just plain sports. A trained guy can defeat an untrained guy anyday, so the comparison should be between two equally trained person of different styles.

For self-defence:
Kicking on knee and breaking is not easy as the above guy said. You need to learn the right angle and need the right amount of strength to break a knee (the damage is permanent if you actually break the knee cap). Anyway, kicking on knee always helps.
Poking eyes is too cruel but works. Usually one would be just able to create a disturbance and not able to poke eyes w/o training.
A punch on jaw or on the neck (adams apple) works great for self-defence and an untrained can do it.

If you want sport go for karate or similar sports else I would say Kungfu with a good trainer, your session should include yogic excercise too with breathing excercise. Every punch or kick should have breathing engaged as per the move else its not much effective. The health improvement is a great bonus.
Boxing styles like mua-thai is very powerful, I am sure about its efficiency on street fight, but it concentrate more on power development then smart and fast fight which Wing chun kungfu does (I might be bias) . But I think a combination of both would be the most powerful.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Majesticzero

I'm looking for a sport where I can defend myself in the streets.

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. Defend yourself from whom? Get viciously attacked my ruthless street thugs often? I'd suggest moving to a different neighborhood. Barring that, I'd say the best sport for not being attacked is powerlifting (or anything else that makes you huge and intimidating).

[Wes]

Oh, if only every place were as safe as Osaka... I hear Japan is one of the countries with the lowest rate of criminality, isn't it, rocksupreme? Must be great, and a beautiful place! Alas, other countries cannot claim the same: in some major american and european cities, you'll want to be extra careful when going out at night for a walk... independently of what neighborhood you live in.

That said, Krav Maga or Wing Chun. But truth is, if a person just trains the physical and not the spiritual part of martial arts, she may start to think she's capable of more than can be handled. When in trouble, on the street, it is best to just avoid conflict... or in the very least not try to be a superhero. Excess of confidence can be dangerous, when facing people with weapons and little concern for the well-being of others.

[Scipio]

I prefer boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and Judo.

I have fought professionally in Thai boxing, as I lived and trained there full time. For the last year I lived in Korea playing on the university Judo team. I feel like wrestling (or Judo) is the one that seems to give me an advantage over the practitioners when we do MMA.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Majesticzero

I'm looking for a sport where I can defend myself in the streets. .

If you live in a free country, I recommend you get a concealed carry permit for your firearm. As a man who has fought professionally in sport martial arts like Thai boxing, I wouldn't put my skills up against a guy with a knife or a group of people.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Wes

Oh, if only every place were as safe as Osaka... ...

Living in Osaka doesn't mean I've never experienced other cities. I grew up in the States, and I spent most of my time in Atlanta and Brooklyn. I've never had to defend myself "on the street," despite living downtown and working in bars.

Are you telling me it happens often to you? You must look like an easy mark.

Any physical confrontation I've been in was a direct result of one of two factors: being the smallest kid in my class at elementary school, or doing some stupid things while intoxicated in my younger days. Taking responsibility for your actions will make you much safer than any amount of martial arts training. (Not that I'm against martial arts training - I've done it all my life, and it's what brought me to Japan in the first place.)

There are lots of ways to prevent being attacked, and they are going to be more effective than your chances of avoiding injury in a real fight. "Being careful" is good, but you don't need to learn Krav for that.

Anyone who is interested in learning more about martial arts and personal defense should set aside an hour and read every article on No Nonsense Self Defense. Practicing a martial art will not make you safe if you walk around with a target on your forehead.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Scipio

If you live in a free country, I recommend you get a concealed carry permit for your firearm. As a man who has fought professionally in sport martial arts like Thai boxing, I wouldn't put my skills up against a guy with a knife or a group of people.

Exactly. Learning a martial art with the aim of becoming an invincible god of fighting will get you nowhere. If you have genuine concerns about your safety, you'll want the best tools you can get. Guns are cheap, easy to learn and operate, and reliable.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by rocksupreme

Anyone who is interested in learning more about martial arts and personal defense should set aside an hour and read every article on No Nonsense Self Defense. Practicing a martial art will not make you safe if you walk around with a target on your forehead.

I agree with this and the site. Awareness and being a good person will eliminate 99.9% of dangerous situations. People get into fights more often because they attract them into their life, by having certain behaviours. Those behaviours can be hanging out with shady people, drinking at night and being around a lot of drunk people in bars or on the street, or having the type of behaviour and attitude that escalates a fight into happening rather than de-escalating it. I think if you want to avoid street fights OP, you should learn some de-escalation techniques. Saying sorry and walking away instead of staring someone down can mean saving your life, even if it does bruise your boastful and drunken ego at the time.

Being involved in combat sports as a professional has just taught me that I want to avoid fights unless I'm getting paid and am facing a respectful opponent. Especially if the fight is uncontrolled like a street fight. In the ring, the bell rings and we're both on equal footing. On the street, someone can hit you on the back of the head with a bottle when you're not even looking. The fights over before you even know it has begun.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Wes

Oh, if only every place were as safe as Osaka... I hear Japan is one of the countries with the lowest rate of criminality, isn't it, rocksupreme? Must be great, and a beautiful place! Alas, other countries cannot claim the same: in some major american and european cities, you'll want to be extra careful when going out at night for a walk... independently of what neighborhood you live in.

That's not true at all. Some neighbourhoods are definitely safer than others. You're probably safer in an upper class gated community in the US, in a state that allows citizens to legally own firearms for self-defense, than almost anywhere in the world. Crime is certainly not neighbourhood independent, since it is predicated on the culture of the people in the community. Certain communities have completely different cultures.

[mikaeld]

I am not sure if he ever comes over to your area, but Guru Stevan Plinck has some students in Sweden and Finland as well as other areas of Europe, and might be around sometime for you to check out. He teaches Penchak Silat Serak, an Idonesian martial art that is very, very cool. You won't find many decent videos on it online, but if you ever get a chance to check it out, you won't be disappointed. It is one of the few remaining martial arts that has survived with integrity and understanding. Undiluted. Made to protect your village from people with machetes. Very cool, very serious, feels pure.

I went from seven years of mixed martial arts, including classical and non-classical wing chun, kali, arnis, kenpo karate, and brazilian jiu jitsu. This was all in one system. It was an attempt, like all mixed styles, at creating a complete martial art. One that handles all of it... ground, weapons, stand up fighting, etc. I was two weeks away from getting my second to last belt in our system, when I decided to drop it for Serak. I had seen Guru Stevan move, and he was off the charts. Everything like what I had imagined martial arts to be. Like magic... So I, as well as the rest of our small school, including my instructor, and his old instructor, all dropped what we were doing to learn from Guru Stevan Plinck. For me this meant leaving behind seven years of training. For my instructor, 40.

This all being said, if you get a chance to see him, do so, and then you can decide for yourself. He is pretty convincing... and not just videos. Don't take a video for proof. Go there, and throw him a punch, whoever you want to learn from, and see if you feel convinced. Can he do it to you, your friend, or whoever brings it? Get proof, then decide. And if you see something cooler, do that instead.

Good luck.

[harmony]

I'm also looking into some sort of combat or martial arts, I'm doing it for self-defense. So I guess Krav maga is way to go?

[Cochonette]

Anyone who is interested in learning more about martial arts and personal defense should set aside an hour and read every article on No Nonsense Self Defense. Practicing a martial art will not make you safe if you walk around with a target on your forehead.

Dude. That website looks really cool. I've just started reading it.

I don't think martial arts are useless, especially if you're, say, a bouncer, a police officer, a small woman... I wouldn't want to use a martial art against a knife, ever. Someone's going to get hurt, you, them, or both. Of course you should spend most of your time learning nonviolent methods, but it can't hurt to also learn a martial art. I'm more into the art side of martial arts, even if we're talking about systema, which is supposed to be quite martial. They get you into shape, teach you to be more aware of your body, teach you to relax and endure pain, and may serve as great metaphors for the rest of life... and of course a little bit of self-defense thrown into the actual benefits. One of the main reasons I love training Aikido is just that it gives me a fun physical outlet that is much more applicable to life than, say, basketball. Another reason I love Aikido is how fascinating it is to play with each others' bodies, taking each other's balance while maintaining your own. It's like a game of exploration. The greatest benefits are in the learning, the process.

[JMonkey]

Jiu Jitsu - Encompasses a whole range of moves, mostly grapples and floor work but also some striking. Thing is, 90% of fights end up on the ground anyway.

I loved it before our club was disbanded - Did kata, striking, weapons (someone knocked himself out with numchucks) grappling, throws and loads more. Always something different.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by JMonkey

Thing is, 90% of fights end up on the ground anyway.

I would really love to see a source for this statistic. It's right up there with "4 out of 5 dentists agree" for overuse and lack of evidence.

[JMonkey]

Originally Posted by rocksupreme

I would really love to see a source for this statistic. It's right up there with "4 out of 5 dentists agree" for overuse and lack of evidence.

Well if you knock someone out, I doubt he'll be standing. But I appreciate where you're coming from. I can't back up that figure, as it's secondary information from my sensei.

Consider it retracted.

[Wes]

Granted, Scipio does have a point, if you live in a gated community chances are likely you won't run into trouble. As for criminality rates on guns who legalize firearms, can't really tell, but will take your say on it. It's plausible the unknown threat factor can dissuade violence.

Now, rocksupreme, only easy marks get targeted often? We seem to be simplifying interpersonal violence to just drunks and thieves, here, which is not true at all. Looking big and mean isn't everything, especially if it isn't a one-on-one situation. But still, note I don't disagree with you totally: by no means should one think that "the streets" are so unsafe, not trying to portray them as such. But knowing that things do happen can be a first step in preparedness: as Scipio said, awareness is 99%. Interpersonal violence can come from muggers, from drunks, from vandals who just pick a fight because they think it's fun (UK readers know what I mean), addicts (who happen to be the most complicated case: they don't know what they're doing, and you won't want to risk causing mutual damage for your own safety), or simply a disgruntled or pushy costumer or neighbor (with whom you have to know how to deal without damage, preferably).

MA is a tool to deal with all these situations in the best and least harmful way possible; anything else just makes you as bad as them. My many years in japanese martial arts didn't make me win any fight, they helped diffuse every single situation I encountered since the day I started training them, so that no fight was necessary.

As for the ground fighting, I wouldn't say most of them end up on the floor. If you're on the floor on the street, you put yourself in a very vulnerable position, if you're not in a one-on-one.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by JMonkey

Well if you knock someone out, I doubt he'll be standing. But I appreciate where you're coming from. I can't back up that figure, as it's secondary information from my sensei.

Consider it retracted.

I'm not on your case necessarily - it's just that every BJJ teacher cites that statistic, and I've never met anyone in law enforcement that could point to a source.

It's true that people fall down when they get knocked out, but that doesn't mean it suddenly becomes a grappling match. Also, I've only seen one real knockout in an actual fight.

Again, not to put down what you say. I think ground fighting is useful and not to be neglected.

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by Wes

Granted, ...

Agreed with everything.

I'm just trying not to give out any advice that might lead anyone to think that Martial Art X will solve at their problems. Violence (as a few of us seem to have experienced) comes in many forms, and it's never pretty. I think everyone should practice a martial art, at least for a little while, so long as they go into it with a realistic attitude.

Thanks for the discussion here.

[Cochonette]

Well, knowing how to roll properly will help you stay on your feet, but yeah, it scares me that there's no groundwork in Aikido. My dad's Aikido instructor also taught judo, and I can understand why now. If someone much stronger than me had me pinned down, I'd have no idea what to do. I'm definitely interested in cross-training. Systema is the art I'm most interested in right now beyond Aikido. No one else mentioned it here... it seems to keep a low profile. The classes at my university are $15 per class.

[joelr]

Geez, he never said he wanted to be the invincible king of self defense.

For non-weapon fighting MMA is by far the best. In the beginning of mixed martial arts all sorts of styles came to fight so fighters found out what works and what does not work. Straight boxing and submission grappling are the 2 key arts for fighting and self defense.
Many of the tricks they teach women in those "self defense for women" courses seem effective but in reality they don't stop an attacker or are harder to execute on a moving person. That's just one example.

With strong grappling skills you are always in a good position (except for getting mounted but even then you'll be trained to easily reverse the position, get up and flee) no matter how someone grabs you. If they maintain a distance then the best defense is boxing for punch defense, footwork/angles head movement and getting power behind your punch. Most untrained and traditional martial artists will approach you with their face unblocked allowing you to stun/knockout then get away or whatever the situation calls for.

If you include weapons as a factor then krav maga does train one better.
But keep in mind - the MAJORITY of weapons being pulled on people is for a mugging. In this situation you NEVER want to attempt to fight the weapon. You give up the wallet and let it go.

In the 8 years I have been in Boston I have heard of a few muggings a year and they all fit this pattern.

When are you ever going to attempt a knife fight or to disarm a gunman??

[rocksupreme]

Originally Posted by joelr

When are you ever going to attempt a knife fight or to disarm a gunman??

I certainly hope the answer is "never."

My main criticism against saying "MMA is the best for fighting," is that MMA is not one defined thing. Being a mix, different schools teach different elements. Since MMA is so popular now, everybody claims to teach it, but a lot of instructors are simply not qualified to do so (and simply teach basics that they learned from watching videos, etc.).

We also need to remember that most MMA schools focus on sport fighting, which is different from self defense in that terrain, numbers of opponents, and types of attacks are limited.