what about this argument against meat

[ttt]

If humans are carnivores in nature, why do children show absolutely no instinctive carnivorous behavior? Why don't people feel good when they kill animals if that's natural? Why don't young children want to try uncooked meat when they see it (and they try eating every thing they find at some point)? Why doesn't anyone like the taste of blood? I have seen this argument posted here before, but i don't remember the replies.

[Jthorn]

Why so many assumptions?

I love the taste of blood.
Many people and young men in particular typically display the behavior of an aggressive predator. There may not be animals around where most live nowadays, but rest assured that there are a lot who still rejoice in "killing", even if now that happens only in competitive situations of our creation.

All of what you say, I 've only seen in pro-vegan sites. My real life experience is very different. It is true that modern life in a city has tamed us somewhat and a lot of people now gag at the thought of raw meat. Yet, still there are plenty of us who like our steaks rare.

[ttt]

You are the first person i hear of who likes blood... People who like blood or raw meat, please write here so that i know you are not extremely rare

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by ttt

You are the first person i hear of who likes blood... People who like blood or raw meat, please write here so that i know you are not extremely rare

I like the taste of my own blood, but not the blood of others. Does that count

[Jthorn]

Originally Posted by ttt

You are the first person i hear of who likes blood... People who like blood or raw meat, please write here so that i know you are not extremely rare

If you google for something other than vegan propaganda, you 'll find resources for raw meat eaters.

Rare steaks however are not raw, yet full of blood. French cuisine is renowned for them.

[ttt]

I just hope we are not natural cannibals as well

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Jthorn

Yet, still there are plenty of us who like our steaks rare.

I like to mix the runny yolks of fried eggs with butter and the blood from a rare steak. It tastes good with hot sauce.

Even so, I don't exactly relish the thought of killing animals either. I consider their deaths a reluctant, grudging necessity for my good health. I try to eat as little meat as possible, by eating a lot of fat.

[Jthorn]

I should add that the Masai tribe drink blood from their cows. And I 'm sure a lot of tribes still living in the wild have dietary habits concerning blood and raw/slightly cooked meat.

[spirit4711]

A good steak, mmm....

Raw fish! (Not all, but some kinds are really wonderful.)

But usually I'll have my meat in some non-raw form please. Blood I'm not particularly fond of (but I'll take it with the steak).

[ttt]

Raw meat eaters: Have you always liked raw meat or came to like it? And how did you decide to try it?

[liamona]

Originally Posted by ttt

Raw meat eaters: Have you always liked raw meat or came to like it? And how did you decide to try it?

When I was little, I didn't like meat much because my mother always over-cooked it. I know now that cooked meat is supposed to be served with gelatin or a sauce made with bone broth to make it more digestible (something my mother never did).

My boyfriend in college was a great cook, and he introduced me to rare steaks, ceviché made with "raw" fish, and sushi.

[openeyes]

My mom also overcooked meat, which led to me never eating much of it. A bite of steak meant several minutes of chewing a dry, almost flavorless chunk that couldn't be swallowed without water. It wasn't until my late teens when I tried cooking beef rare that I dove in. Then on my way to college I came across various books and websites promoting raw animal products, tried it, and dove even deeper.

There was no forcing myself once I had access to good meat well prepared. Now I mostly have meat cooked just enough to darken the outside and warm the inside. Meat does't taste as good at refrigeration temperatures. Body temperature would likely be ideal. Also, sushi/sashimi is and has always been delicious.

[stanmrak]

To each his own... no one diet is right for everyone, and it's a free country — well, pretty much. Vegans wouldn't be happy if we restricted vegetable production and consumption, even if we had a damn good reason to do so. So lay off the meat-eaters.

[aggie]

definitely a matter of personal taste.

i had often heard that real meat eaters would be content to track down, run after and kill their meat and it fresh and raw...rather than all nicely packaged in the grocery.

from what i've read from some of you meat eaters and your taste for blood...that would not be a problem

some of us just never, even tho' exposed, developed a taste...and if you are an animal "activist" it makes it even easier to do withoug

[joelr]

Originally Posted by ttt

If humans are carnivores in nature, why do children show absolutely no instinctive carnivorous behavior? Why don't people feel good when they kill animals if that's natural? Why don't young children want to try uncooked meat when they see it (and they try eating every thing they find at some point)? Why doesn't anyone like the taste of blood? I have seen this argument posted here before, but i don't remember the replies.

We are not carnivores but are omnivores. Behavior patterns vary among omnivores.
Consider the turtle and chimpanzee.

Omnivores are opportunistic. You may feel good after killing an animal if you had no access to food and were unable to find enough plant life to provide enough fat/protein.

I remember reading a vegan book that argued since we are not carnivores we must be herbivores and that our ancestors ate only plants. They did but there were like dozens of further hominid species that came between them and us who did eat meat. It was responsible for the larger brain size of the later hominids and eventually Homo sapien.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by ttt

If humans are carnivores in nature, why do children show absolutely no instinctive carnivorous behavior?

Humans aren't designed to rely on meat the way we do now. You raise good questions.

Why don't humans have fangs like a lion? We don't. We have flat grinding molars which are more like a horse (herbivore). We have teeth called canines, but they're as small and ineffective for biting as the wolfteeth in a horse's mouth.

Why don't humans have the shortened digestive tract typical of an animal that relies on alot of meat? Or the more acid stomach? Or ANY natural tools needed to take down and kill an animal (claws? fangs? strength?)

Heck, if people were meant to eat meat, why will eating it raw generally make us sick, give us parasites, and in some cases kill people? Lions or dogs can eat carcasses. We need to rely on [unnatural] cooking and other processing methods to make meat safe to eat. And I challenge anyone who disagrees to go out and eat some uncooked, uncured pork and see what happens.

Eating meat is something we evolved to do in times of need, in order to survive. But including it regularly makes us at higher risk for little things like heart disease and arteriosclerosis, further proof we aren't cut out of eating tons of meat.

Humans do some odd dietary things. We're also the only animal that drinks milk past childhood... and drinks another species' milk. We're not newborn calves. Nevermind that the estimates put 80%+ of us as lactose intolerant as adults -- so we're eating something that gives us bellyaches.

Meat is a cultural choice and an acquired taste. Stop eating it and you'll lose the taste. I've been away from it so long, I not only lost the taste, I can't stand the smell. The smell of an animal roasting is *exactly* the same smell as human flesh or hair burning, which really grosses me out.

As westerners we tend to forget the many cultures that do quite well on little or no meat in their diet. We hold onto our traditions, and it's very hard to reject the food our parents raised us on. I can't speak for other countries, but the American culture also glorifies meat as something manly or macho. People who chose to skip the meat entree are mocked as pansies (and other not-so-nice words). I remember seeing a (meat-loving) acquaintance mock & bully her 8 yr old little girl when the little girl was going through a meat-free phase. What kind of culture do we have that loves meat so much we make fun of our neighbors or our children for not taking part?

[jeff3]

Humans are the most successful animals on the planet from a growth standpoint, that is due in part to the fact that we can eat almost anything,and our reasoning skills have allowed us to domesticate other animals and obtain a sustained food supply without hunting for every meal. Of course we are omnivores, meaning that we can adequatly digest both plant and animal fodder. The fact that humans have a broad range of choices helps ensure our survival. I bet that if a lion could milk a cow it would, I know my neighbors cat would, he loves milk. Humans are definately unique and compared to other animals we're not "natural", so I wouldn't expect us to have a "natural" diet.

If meat was killing us I doubt we would be growing in numbers and living longer each year since veggers only comprise 3-6% of the population, if you exclude India 1-3%.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by jeff3

I bet that if a lion could milk a cow it would, I know my neighbors cat would, he loves milk.

So does my cat and dog! They come running when I pour (raw) milk in a bowl for them. Usually the cat wins, even though she's much smaller.

I was a little leery of giving my dog milk, since she spends most of the time indoors, but it gives her no digestive trouble at all, not even gas.

[Vantage72]

Originally Posted by ttt

Why don't people feel good when they kill animals if that's natural?

That's probably the result of conditioning.

I've seen a woman who was radiant while she was slaughtering some chickens to feed her family.

[Beuford]

I'd just like to point out something that I feel appropriate. One time I read some website that was trying to disprove the humans are herbivores theory. Their calculation of instestinal length compared to body length included our legs. Or they were just making stuff up...

[RagsToRiches]

Blood is really really tasty. Especially with bits of fat in it.

Cooked of cause.

As for raw meat... I love Italian raw ham. Really really really nice.

Also sushi is great. Probably my favourite food ever.

Originally Posted by ttt

You are the first person i hear of who likes blood... People who like blood or raw meat, please write here so that i know you are not extremely rare

EDIT:



The black thing on the far right is "black pudding" (known as blood pudding outside of the UK) ... undoubtable bad for cholesterol, but damn nice!

[vMike]

mm.. that thread made me wanna go buy a steak

Originally Posted by ttt

If humans are carnivores in nature, why do children show absolutely no instinctive carnivorous behavior? Why don't people feel good when they kill animals if that's natural? Why don't young children want to try uncooked meat when they see it (and they try eating every thing they find at some point)? Why doesn't anyone like the taste of blood? I have seen this argument posted here before, but i don't remember the replies.

I think kids try uncooked meat too and quickly learn it's not tasty, after which they don't try it any more.

Sure people can feel good about killing animals - that's what hunting is for. Before the agricultural revolution, some 12,000 years ago, humans were hunters gatherers for tens of thousands of years, hunting, killing and eating large animals.

[Peek]

Originally Posted by ttt

If humans are carnivores in nature, why do children show absolutely no instinctive carnivorous behavior? Why don't young children want to try uncooked meat when they see it (and they try eating every thing they find at some point)?

I don't want to spoil the fun, but if we answer this in a positive sense it would mean we are M&M eaters and Happy Meal Lovers by nature.
As I see children choose for sweet and a funky looking clown

[RagsToRiches]

To be honest...

I killed a few rats with my friends as a kid... and by killed I mean put them in a bag and smashed them up with a baseball bat and a hammer.

We had absolutely 0 remorse about doing so.

It wasn't until later on in fact... like aged 11+ that I started to develope some degree of empathy with animals - particularly domestic animals.

Therefore I'd say that it's learnt behaviour.

[Andrew Gubb]

I don't know, I think you start out not liking most foods and then get used to them.

I can't stand meat now, but that's because I know what went into making it.

I think it's "natural" to eat meat, but I also think it's "natural" not to. We're extremely adaptable creatures. Out of our primate cousins, some are extremely violent and agressive, while others are peaceful, cooperative vegans (raw vegans in fact)

Getting esoteric here, I'd say the animal world is just a reflection of all of the good and bad energy we send into the astral anyway.

[RagsToRiches]

Good answer.

[garentee]

[QUOTE=liamona;412063]I like to mix the runny yolks of fried eggs with butter and the blood from a rare steak. It tastes good with hot sauce.

oh yeah. Thats pretty awesome...I think that meat eaters of which I am one should have to raise and slaughter their meat at least once in their lives to know exactly what they are doing. If you are comfortable with it and you understand exactly what you are doing you may proceed. I have raised pigs and chickens and while taking another life is not very pleasant, the difference is that you are giving the animal only one bad moment in their lives as opposed to the constant bad moments in a factory farm situation. No matter what you eat, something has died in the production of that food. Vegetable production costs the lives of countless mammals,insects etc. A lot of woodchuck or deer can cause an awful lot of headaches for the farmer not to say anything of the expectant customer.......

[aggie]

some of these pictures and descriptions are not pleading you case

i am going to eat an apple and a few carrots, thank you very much

by the by, milk (other than mom's) is not really good for cat's digestive system.....just a bit of unwanted, possibly useless info....

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by funchy

And I challenge anyone who disagrees to go out and eat some uncooked, uncured pork and see what happens.

I'd be happy to. In fact I took a break while writing my last post to have a thick cut pork chop cooked very rare. Were I to leave it raw I'd simply be sure it was some of the local pasture raised pork. Trichinosis is no longer the issue in the US it once was, particularly among better raised swine, and many chefs are starting to prepare rare pork:

A Pinker Pork - Diner’s Journal Blog - NYTimes.com

While humans have been hunters for a while, particularly in lower population density areas (many taboos against eating certain animals didn't crop up until it was unsustainable for most people to eat them), before that they were likely scavengers of animals that had died by other means and insect eaters. Bugs can have rather interesting tastes, and if nothing else can add a bit of spice to things. Tomorrow I'll be heading off to BugFest • North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences and trying some more myself.

[James81]

Originally Posted by ttt

Why don't people feel good when they kill animals if that's natural?

Good lord, you need to come up to my parents house during deer season. lol

Bigger than Christmas.