Vaccine concerns

[st33med]

I am quite tired of the supposed dangers of vaccination. So, in this thread, I am posting facts about these concerns.

CONCERN: Thiomersal (or Thimerosal) is mercury that is put in vaccines and is linked to causing autism and/or Alzheimer's Syndrome.
FACT: Most singe-dose vaccines have no thiomersal and it is a different form of mercury that is almost harmless. According to the WHO, thiomersal is not a methyl mercury, which is the common mercury that causes evacs of schools or make people mad as a hatter. It is an ethyl mercury that is metabolized and removed from the body quicker than methyl mercury. These Autism and Alzheimer's Syndrome concerns are caused by people who hear 'mercury in vaccines'. Nobody has conclusive evidence that thiomersal causes neurological damage.
Thiomersal is used as an adjuvant that attracts white blood cells to the site of injection and enhance the chance of them taking the vaccine's antigen and, thus, producing antibodies against the proper agent. Without thiomersal, it would lessen the immunity probability, and using another adjuvant would be costly to produce and potentially less safe.

CONCERN: Formaldehyde, a carcinogen, is used in these vaccines.
FACT: Yes, but concentrations are way too low to cause any repercussions. Truth be told, we have formaldehyde in our blood (Dr. Jekyll would be proud ). About 2-3 milligrams per liter, to be precise. And in an average vaccine? Less than 100 micrograms per liter. That's less than four percent of the amount found in our arteries, so, I highly doubt a vaccine would rise levels to lethality before being metabolized.

CONCERN: Aluminum salts are also found as a common ingredient in vaccines.
FACT: Yes, but again, enough for our body to metabolize. Our kidneys can filter out the aluminum salts in vaccines. Even if the kidneys were faulty, it takes months of constant application to die. This is another adjuvant that helps out thiomersal.

CONCERN: In historic cases of massive vaccinations, people have died or gained complications because of vaccines.
FACT: Not all cases have ended in tragedy, and sometimes vaccines were not the cause of distress. For example, the Gulf War Anthrax vaccine was thought to be a cause of Gulf War Syndrome due to its use of squalene antibodies. However, the DoD reviewed the facts and found that squalene antibodies are safe. It's even produced in a lot of animals, including humans.

CONCERN: Vaccines are not effective.
FACT: They are. Scientifically and historically, vaccines are proven effective against viruses and diseases. A typical vaccination inserts antigens of the agent or a weakened version of the agent into the blood stream. White blood cells are attracted to the site of insertion, and, upon finding an antigen, attaches to it. The WBCs then develop a proper antibody and replicate massively. Any of the viral strains entering the body after the fact then are attacked and vanquished. Admittedly, sometimes the antibodies are rejected by the body. Renewals are required because sometimes the WBCs with the antigen become so rare that they are ineffective. This is caused by the lack of the specific disease entering the body and producing more antigens.
In studies of vaccinated children to unvaccinated people, the more people who are not vaccinated increases the risk of children with vaccinations. This proves that the more vaccinations handed out, the less anybody will contract the disease.
Historically, many bans or disuses of vaccines have led to a rise in the disease. Such as the smallpox vaccine in Stockholm during the 1870's;
people started to disapprove of vaccines and vaccine rates fell to 40%. But, a smallpox epidemic occurred and forced people to use vaccines to extinguish smallpox.

CONCERN: You are an idiot who does not understand the risks of vaccines!
FACT: OK, your opinion. But, I spent a lot of time writing this well-sourced thread.

So, there you have it. Anymore concerns or any mistakes that I had, post them and I will answer to the best of my ability.

[Brutha]

Scientifically and historically, vaccines are proven effective against viruses and diseases.

Could you point to studies that proved them to be effective (with the standard of evidence that other medicine needs)?

[st33med]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Could you point to studies that proved them to be effective (with the standard of evidence that other medicine needs)?

Fixed, I put up the population vaccination ratio. Is that what you meant?

[liamona]

No how about a real study, comparing vaccinated people against non-vaccinated? That'll be the day.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by liamona

No how about a real study, comparing vaccinated people against non-vaccinated? That'll be the day.

I think you know that that would be tough. Two groups of subjects, one not vaccinated and one vaccinated, are exposed to the deadly disease the vaccine prevents.

...Wanna participate?

[liamona]

Here's the complete list of horrors for your amusement:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-1.pdf

As for other vaccine excipients, don't forget all the animal ingredients, especially "bovine products" not tested for mad cow disease and pork gelatin. Oh, and the yummy MSG in FluMist, ProQuad, and Varivax.

I'd pay a doctor a thousand dollars to see him drink a vial!

[liamona]

Originally Posted by st33med

I think you know that that would be tough.

No, wouldn't that actually be SCIENCE at work? Can't have that, can we? LOL.

Two groups of subjects, one not vaccinated and one vaccinated, are exposed to the deadly disease the vaccine prevents.

...Wanna participate?

I haven't had a vaccine in over twenty years, and I'd be completely willing, as would all the other families I know who don't vaccinate and our kids. We've made our wishes known for years but hmmm, Big Pharma doesn't look up for the challenge of a real study.

[aggie]

ya know, there wasn't so much public tado about this until jenny mccarthy opened her mouth

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by liamona

No how about a real study, comparing vaccinated people against non-vaccinated? That'll be the day.

Probably has been done and not released for fear they will lose billions of dollars haha.

[st33med]

Nigeria, polio, measles, diphtheria (2001 onward)

In the early 2000s, conservative religious leaders in northern Nigeria, suspicious of Western medicine, advised their followers to not have their children vaccinated with oral polio vaccine. The boycott was endorsed by the governor of Kano State, and immunization was suspended for several months. Subsequently, polio reappeared in a dozen formerly polio-free neighbors of Nigeria, and genetic tests showed the virus was the same one that originated in northern Nigeria: Nigeria had become a net exporter of polio virus to its African neighbors. People in the northern states were also reported to be wary of other vaccinations, and Nigeria reported over 20,000 measles cases and nearly 600 deaths from measles from January through March 2005.[24] In 2006 Nigeria accounted for over half of all new polio cases worldwide.[25] Outbreaks continued thereafter; for example, at least 200 children died in a late-2007 measles outbreak in Borno State.[26]

--Wikipedia

That's happening TODAY. No vaccines for polio, and what do you know, the disease came back.

[liamona]

Yeah, Nigeria. I'm not anywhere near there, but thanks for the info.

[ginkgo]

st33med said "So, in this thread, I am posting facts about these concerns."

The above are opinions, not facts. Facts are not disputed. Andrew Weil, MD and Mercola MD disagree with the above opinions. It is a fact that Senator Ted Kennedy is dead. Now I do not know this for sure, but it is not disputed. Weil and Mercola are not disputing that Kennedy is dead.

The above sounds like the Christian saying that it is a fact that if you do not accept Jesus, then you are going to hell or a Muslim saying that it is a fact that Allah is God and Mohammed is His messenger.

Here is a thread that shows that the opinions of Weil, MD, Steve and Erin Pavlina disagree with your opinions that you say are facts. They do back up their opinions with facts.
This is a Great Article About Vaccinations

Please note that Ron Paul who ran for president is an M.D. "This article tells all about the vaccination con. Ron Paul 2012

It says: From his book ‘Health and Healing’ Dr Andrew Weil best answers it with this statement:

"Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunisations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available – the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water. "

Here is the CDC's Vaccines and Immunizations web site for their opinions.

You (st33med) said "Meh, as a kid in an AP Biology class...."
What is "meh?"
Urban dictionary:1. "Meh is a word you use when you arent ok, but you arent too bad either and you dont really wanna talk about it cus you aint in the mood lol!
person A: "hey dude! u ok?"
person B: (feelin a bit pi**ed off but not at his/her worst and aint in the mood for going into detail!) "Meh!"
person A: "Oh its like that is it?"
3. a sound often times made when over tired, and very slaphappy.

random outburst.
::At 4:00 am, when one is super tired:: "MEH!"

Originally Posted by Indiana View Post
Could you tell me some of these diseases/vaccinations?

It seems unbelievable that they would continue to be administered if there was a higher death rate from the vaccine than the disease (unless the vaccine is preventing a death-causing illness in most people).

Steve Pavlina said "Polio for starters. After 1979 there hasn't been a single case of polio caused by the virus in the USA other than from people getting polio from the vaccine itself... or people coming into the country who were already infected. These days you're more likely to contract polio from the vaccine than from the wild virus."

[st33med]

You do realize Dr Andrew Weils has reversed his decision against vaccines?
Safe from Smallpox?

And, I might add one of the definitions of fact:
Fact (noun): a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened ("He supported his argument with an impressive array of facts")

[WelfarestateChild]

Admit it st33med. You took it, and now your trying to justify it

[st33med]

Originally Posted by WelfarestateChild

Admit it st33med. You took it, and now your trying to justify it

Yeah, been thinking this is a waste of breath. :|

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by st33med

You do realize Dr Andrew Weils has reversed his decision against vaccines?
Safe from Smallpox?

And, I might add one of the definitions of fact:
Fact (noun): a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened ("He supported his argument with an impressive array of facts")

Well then you are dealing with what is verified information. That is subject to opinion. Verify:
1. To prove the truth of by presentation of evidence or testimony; substantiate.
2. To determine or test the truth or accuracy of, as by comparison, investigation, or reference: experiments that verified the hypothesis. See synonyms at confirm.
3. Law.
1. To affirm formally or under oath.
2. To append a verification to (a pleading); conclude with a verification.

So I like my definition of fact as something that is not disputed. Maybe someday it will be proven that 2 + 2 does not equal 4. But for now, it is not disputed, so it is a fact for now.

You gave your opinion of what Weil said in that article. He never said that he is reversing his opinion and why.

Instead of you just throwing your opinions and interpretations of what others mean, why not give exact quotes. Here is an exact, word for word quote, of what Weil said in the article you mentioned.

"Given the risks and discomforts, unnecessarily exposing the whole population to the smallpox vaccine doesn't make sense in the absence of a confirmed bioterrorist threat.

Andrew Weil, M.D."

He also says in that article "The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that for every one million people who receive the vaccine for the first time, between 14 and 52 will develop life-threatening side effects such as encephalitis. One or two of every million people vaccinated will die." Compare this to how you started this thread. You said "I am quite tired of the supposed dangers of vaccination."

[stanmrak]

Regarding participant st33md: I suspect the "md" stands for medical doctor... maybe he/she will confirm this. If so, realize that he/she has undergone many years of training/programming and is not about to change his/her viewpoints easily. We just need to let congress know that we want freedom of choice, that's all. Ron Paul for President!

[Brutha]

I think you know that that would be tough. Two groups of subjects, one not vaccinated and one vaccinated, are exposed to the deadly disease the vaccine prevents.

That would be evidence based medince. No cancer treatment that might safe lifes get's approved without a study that proves that it works.

If vaccines aren't evidence based medicine it's misleading to claim that they are science.

For childs between 3 and 5 probiotics could reduce flu by 72% in a controlled study.
Giving Vitamin D also reduces flu in a controlled study.

Why should flu vaccines not need to show their effectiveness in controlled studies, but you are speaking for them instead of speaking for evidence based medicine like probiotics and vitamin D?

Nobody has conclusive evidence that thiomersal causes neurological damage.

I don't think that the burden of proof is with those people who claim that it does neurological damage.