Experiences with Doctors

[Dreamline]

Even though Random tried to narrow this down by moving it from the vaccination thread, there are still about 17 different topics being discussed. All worthy of their own thread.

Let me just say this one thing because I think, being in the medical field for nearly 30 years has given me an interesting perspective.

The most damaged, screwed up part of the medical field in America is the patient himself.

That's not to say insurance, FDA, Big Pharma, managed care, HMO, fraud and neglect do not contribute. But the patient is the enemy to good healthcare in America.



Jennifer

[okogba64]

Its wonderful learning from other people's experiences. Out here in my country, Nigeria,it is usual for a doctor to go go ahead to make a prescription without a word of explanation to the patient. In fact it seems the patient does not matter or at best since the doctor 'knows all' and the patient is 'ignorant' he(patient) should be grateful the doctor as much as attends to him. This of course streams from the colonial experience of shabby treatment to the 'natives' which later day inigenous professionals inherited.

This attitude has succeeded in pishing many out of the orthodox meds back to the native medical practitioners, because atleast the native doctor will show empathy with the patient and prescribe things the patient will easily align with.

I see no big deal in a doctor explain to a patient the illness he'she is affected diagnosed even if it be a terminal disease. It is the person's life, you know.

[aggie]

you are right...it is every patient's right...they even have documents galore explaining rights and privacy...pt needs to be intellectually curious and learn about their healthcare.

this is not to say it is not the doctor's responsibility to explain...but if questions are not asked...there is no explanation...i personally see this every day. and if less time answering questions makes rooms for more patients, they move on.

i have seen doctors order a myriad of tests on patients based on the latest article or seminar...doesn't mean they are not valid...they can be life changing and saving ( i speak from personal experience...but i am in the field, so i am more aware)...and if it is new and still considered experimental by the insurance company and they get a big bill from the lab...

the are angry and say they don't know what was ordered and why....and they are correct...what ever they came in for originally...the doctor added on, upped the level of the office visit and the pt was none the wiser.

definitely a 2 way street.

that is where some of us working for the healthcare providers come in ...to put salve on the wound, make the doctor look good, and explain to the patient what the doctor didn't...and guess who is making the big coins....:rolleyes

[sepiagal]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

The most damaged, screwed up part of the medical field in America is the patient himself.

That's not to say insurance, FDA, Big Pharma, managed care, HMO, fraud and neglect do not contribute. But the patient is the enemy to good healthcare in America.

Jennifer

Your statement is a generalization. You don't explain or substantiate or even provide examples. I wonder if you can even support your opinion about how the most damaged, screwed up part of the medical field is the patient.

That is an imappropriate attitude from a healthcare worker. Patients are patients because they need medical care, and they don't need to be generalized about or referrred to as the worst part of the HC system.

It sounds like you want to call the patient diseased instead of seeing their health problem as diseased.

Not all patients are the same. If you can't see this then YOU are PART of the problem because you can't see the diversity among patients.

How are you qualified to make statements about all patients? Its impossible for you to have seen all patients in America. But your statement is not qualified with "most patients are..." but "the patient" which means ALL patients.

How exactly is the patient the enemy to good healthcare in America? Your statement (opinion, really) implies that ALL patients are the enemy and that is absolutely not true. There are good patients and bad patients just like their are good HC workers and bad ones.

Someone posted about how the medical profession resorts to blaming the patient as a cop out basically. And if that doesn't work then they (doctors) claim the problem is all in their (patients) head.

Proof that this type of behavior happens is this response calling the patient the enemy of good HC in USA.

It seems to me SOME healthcare workers are incapable of seeing patients as individuals. And that means the care provided by those HC workers is not individualized. One size does not fit all when it comes to healthcare treatment.

It doctors and HC workers don't see the patient as an individual then they are just treating the HC problem. I think HC should be about treating the person, not just the disease.

[Dreamline]

Originally Posted by sepiagal

Your statement is a generalization. You don't explain or substantiate or even provide examples. I wonder if you can even support your opinion about how the most damaged, screwed up part of the medical field is the patient.

You are right. I'm just not a fan of excessive long posts. I tend to wait to see what people would like me to explain before I take up feet of forum space. But you have asked, I will answer.

That is an imappropriate attitude from a healthcare worker. Patients are patients because they need medical care, and they don't need to be generalized about or referrred to as the worst part of the HC system.

Before you rant, you should think about it. Yesterday for example, my coworker and I were returning to my office from the cafeteria. I had my salad and she had her soup. We walked by a man in a scooter, not more than 50 years old, with one of his legs amputated below the knee, the other looking pretty bandaged up and a smell that can only mean gangrene. Obviously a diabetic with severe complications. Next to him, on the lobby sofa, was a large container of those jelly candies with the crystal sugar coating. We both looked at him with that surprised look only a shocked and disgusted healthcare practioner can muster and he shot us back a "**** you! No one tells me how to eat!" attitude that was pretty much the writing on the wall for this guy. He can't work. He is sucking the system (in it's current state) for all it's worth judging by all the care he has, and continues to have, not even attempting to take care of himself. My father 800 miles away could be this same man. I could literally fill the server on this site with examples from my 30 years. I am an extraordinarily compassionate person in the context of my job but no matter how you try to help people, ultimately they are responsible for helping themselves first and that doesn't happen nearly often enough.

Multiply this by millions of people that expect the entire American medical system to support them despite the fact that they remain obese, unhealthy fast food/crap eating fools, abuse themselves in a myriad of ways, drugs, alcohol, sloth and expect their MDs to cure them no matter what they do to themselves, using, of course, all of the juicy expensive tests and treatments available in a first world country, and then sue them if they can't.

It sounds like you want to call the patient diseased instead of seeing their health problem as diseased.

If you know the reason for your unhealthy state is what you are doing to yourself, day and night, choice by choice, and you choose to ignore that until you are in a state of acute danger and then expect to be somehow magically cured, you are probably mentally ill to some degree.

Not all patients are the same. If you can't see this then YOU are PART of the problem because you can't see the diversity among patients.

I don't know how you can assume to even make this statement.

How are you qualified to make statements about all patients? Its impossible for you to have seen all patients in America. But your statement is not qualified with "most patients are..." but "the patient" which means ALL patients.

I'm qualified. Trust me.

How exactly is the patient the enemy to good healthcare in America? Your statement (opinion, really) implies that ALL patients are the enemy and that is absolutely not true. There are good patients and bad patients just like their are good HC workers and bad ones.

Now you are nitpicking my words and refusing to consider I may be right. I would think it would be obvious that ALL patients are not the enemy. So I won't discuss this comment.

Someone posted about how the medical profession resorts to blaming the patient as a cop out basically. And if that doesn't work then they (doctors) claim the problem is all in their (patients) head.

Blaming the patient as a cop out? You go to the MD because your knees are killing you. He tells you that you are 70lbs overweight, and pre-diabetic with early signs of cardiac disease, high blood pressure and a stroke risk. That you need to lose weight and have a workout schedule that is reasonable and low impact. The next year you go to him and you are now 90lbs overweight, blew off the personal trainer and now need brutally expensive knee replacements and the extensive (expensive) physical therapy involved with learning how to walk again and are now unemployable and on disability. Your surgery is now a massively huge high risk surgery with your medical history. Who copped out?

It seems to me SOME healthcare workers are incapable of seeing patients as individuals. And that means the care provided by those HC workers is not individualized. One size does not fit all when it comes to healthcare treatment.

You sound bitter about something. Hopefully you are in perfect health because with that attitude, you will not be a person who relates well with their healthcare workers.

It doctors and HC workers don't see the patient as an individual then they are just treating the HC problem. I think HC should be about treating the person, not just the disease.

We do see them as individuals. Individuals who, by and large, ignore we what tell them to do and would much rather have a prescription to fix what they have done to themselves. They dismiss that we are serious when we say they are in grave danger, they wouldn't give up shoving garbage in their pie hole if their life depended on it (It does...) and act like it would kill them to get off the sofa and go for a brisk walk or lift some weights or attend an aerobics class or swim some laps. The problem is, someday soon, it WILL kill them just getting off their couch.

Now my president is stuck with an impossible scenario: Fixing healthcare which includes the impossible task of fixing the minds of people that behave like they couldn't care less about their health and yet expect "healthcare" to cure all their woes BUT DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT!

I'm right in my assertion. It will become obvious once healthcare reform passes because people, especially healthier people, are definitely going to start noticing how much money they are shelling out to support the healthcare losers who ignore all medical advice and live like gluttons.

Fair warning: It's going to become at best extremely frowned upon to be blatantly unhealthy in the coming years. At worst, a humilation nightmare as people get bolder about making their disgust known.

My people and me will be here to, as usual, clean up the messes you all have made of yourselves. We do it because we care. Not because we love the interminable stress we have to live with everyday, the low pay, the harsh hours or the disruptions to our personal lives. Because we truly do care about you humans.

We just wish you cared about yourselves half as much.

Jennifer

[liamona]

I see valid points in both of your arguments.

But looking back on my own experiences with doctors, I wonder why the ones I saw for my chronic UTI problems never asked me about diet, or questioned giving me antibiotics over and over again?

I've worked for a couple of excellent doctors. I got along great with them. One of them was an extremely warm, caring person. But I thought it really chilling that when she gave me a routine check-up I needed for school, her professional demeanor instantly snapped on, and I felt like a bug under a microscope. I wonder why most doctors can't keep their warm feelings and excellent diagnostic abilities going at the same time?

[sepiagal]

If a person is overweight you don't know why they are that way. I think some people turn to junk food for various reasons that are not within their control, like depression (craving carbs to boost serotonin), nutritional problems effecting blood sugar, undiagnosed food allergies can make a person crave the foods they are allergic to, thyroid issues, economic reasons, and lack of time and access to fruits and vegetables (poor neighborhoods do not always have fresh fruits and vegetables).

And why is it that health ins doesn't provide prerventative care to someone who is likely to develop diabetes? Do doctors also focus on prevention? No, they don't. So a person only gets help after they have diabetes. Preventative care does not exist in our health care system but it is the patients responsibility to take on the preventative measures themselves. Again its the patients fault, according to you.

Changing eating habits AFTER a person has developed diabetes is harder than before I think.

QUOTE
We walked by a man in a scooter, not more than 50 years old, with one of his legs amputated below the knee, the other looking pretty bandaged up and a smell that can only mean gangrene. Obviously a diabetic with severe complications....

You demonstrate a lack of boundaries.

QUOTE
You sound bitter about something. Hopefully you are in perfect health because with that attitude, you will not be a person who relates well with their healthcare workers.

If you think I'm bitter then show me what words of mine make me seem bitter. You think you know me just like you think you know someone you pass in the hallway or someone who isn't gettting any preventative care. That is not appropriate behavior. You need to limit your comments to my words because you DO NOT KNOW ME.

You need to show healthy boudaries here and with people who may need health care. It is not humanly possible to know another person's attitude. Anyone with healthy boundaries would know that. Your argument is that patients have "an attitude" about not being willing to take care of themselves. That argument is invalid because it assumes you can read minds. You assume you know another person's attitude about their health but you're out of line assuming that you know their thought processes. Not to mention diagnosing someone you pass in a hall as a diabetic.

Nutrition is not part of most doctors recommendations, advice, and expertise. That's a fact. If a person wanted help with deficiencies they have to go to a holistic doctor. Deficiencies can cause problems with blood sugar control problems, for one thing. Nutrition would be part of a preventative care program if that existed in our HC system.

All those people who have tried diet after diet without lasting success couldn't have a sub-clinical or undiagnosed thyroid problem.

I think overweight people may be nutritionally deficient. And if they didn't start out with deficiencies (unlikely, I think) they developed them because of their diet. So I see anyone with a weight problem (too heavy or too thin) as needing nutrtional help, professional nutritonal help. And that means tests to diagnose and treat deficencies. And not that useless pyramid nonsense and advice to eat at least 5 servings of F&V/day. Proper testing for deficiencies does not happen. Why is that? No preventative care. Poor eating habits are blamed on the patient; and deficiencies, depression, genetic mutations, thyroid issues, etc, are not considered.

The food industry doesn't make it easy for people to eat healthy with added sugar, trans fats, chemical additives, frankenfoods, added sodium, MSG, etc. Even salad bars and prakaged salad mixes have chemicals added. Eating healthy is a highly complex task. MSG is supposed to effect leptin causing some people to gain weight.

[jamesbiz]

Boy is this thread so freaken full of making excuses for other people....


Thank you for telling it like it is Jennifer. Maybe this is a good thing after all, and the shame might actually make people healthy so the initial investment might pay off in the end? lol Ah, I just don't know anymore...

[sepiagal]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

Boy is this thread so freaken full of making excuses for other people....


Thank you for telling it like it is Jennifer. Maybe this is a good thing after all, and the shame might actually make people healthy so the initial investment might pay off in the end? lol Ah, I just don't know anymore...

What other people? What excuses? There are possible explanations why people are overweight besides their own gluttony or laziness.

And so what if a patient didn't cut their calories down and didn't lose weight? Is it reasonable to think that patient should not expect the same qaulity of care or same attitude from HC workers as a more health conscious person?

Who decided that HC workers get to cop an attitude with non-compliant paients? Treating patients like uncooperative two year olds doesn't motivate them b/c it isn't objective behavior. That kind of behavior is about jidgmental attitudes. Any HC worker who can't keep their attitude in check shouldn't be dealing with patients. That kind of behavior is unprofessional.

I wouldn't pay for someone allowed to motoivate me with the stick instead of the carrot. Will we have that kind of behavior to look forward to if and when we get some type of universal HC?

If you don't keep your car clean should you expect less quality service when you bring it in for repairs?

If you don't train your dog should you expect your vet to be rough in handling your dog when you bring him in for treatment?

If you don't keep you property clear and clean of debri should you expect to not get regular municipal garbage collection.

That kind of behavior is about being judgmental so service providers have an excuse for their shoddy service and performance.

Is that what you meant about excuses for other people?

Should our HC system be about making patients accountable to workers getting paid so they can cop an attitude and judge those they are supposed to be helping and treating? Because that's about giving other people excuses to do a poor job.

To a certain extent you may get less attention or service if you don't look well kept; your mechanic may be less careful if your car is a mess. That is the reality of life. But should we just accept this behavior as part of our institutionalized healthcare system? The existence of this behavior is one thing but allowing it is another thing.

Why treat smokers, they don't deserve healthcare.

Where is the line that constitutes being a fat lazy slob unworthy of basic common courtesy from HC workers? Why do we treat drug addicts and alcoholics? They don't deserve our help, we should throw them in jail.

We might also pull the plug on elderly people too frail to care for themselves; they should have taken better care of themselves throughout their lifetime.

[Vasilisa]

Well, I came from a different country 7 years ago and I have a BIG change in my whole attitude towards my health and healthcare. First of all 7 years ago I didn't care much about my health. I was young and I knew if I don't feel good I will go to a doctor and run all test on my health almost for free and definitely they will find out what's wrong with me almost the same week. Though it lacks the same level of technology, nothing costs that much, you can afford basically any test you want.
Here I got sick once and had to go to an emergency room, wound up with a bill for 5000$, after my insurance paid and referral for the surgery. The doctor didn't give me any other options, except that surgery. I started folk methods :herbs and stuff, every time I came for the check-up, the doctor would scare me and try to persuade me to go for the surgery any way. Year after my problem is gone, though I didn't listen to the doctor.
And you know, I couldn't even discuss things I used to cure myself with a medical professional here, they would think I'm out of my mind.
My friend agreed to the same kind of surgery, woke up after it and found out the surgeon removed some of her healthy organs just in case.
And I have whole bunch of stories when doctors proscribe super-antibiotics or steroids to litlle kids, because they don't really know the diagnosis and don't want to run expensive tests, because of insurance, and prescribe something so strong that it will work any way. And if this doesn't work, they will prescribe something even stronger.
Whem my son is prescribed any kind of medication, ointment, anything - I do a research to find out what that stuff is. Because I don't trust the doctors any more.

[aggie]

welcome to the american healthcare way....

not true all of the time of course, but a lot of the time.

and this for people that HAVE insurance....heaven help the ones that do not...actually sometimes they end up better off because if they go to the emergency room and need the expensive tests or surgeries they can get it and the hospital has to eat the bill, or the taxpayers absorb it, or it is passed on in increased insurance premiums.

some doctors (again i speak from personal experience in my job) are learning more about preventative tests and measures...yes, they can get pretty good money for these things...but some insurance companies consider even some blood tests "experimental" and will not cover...so either the patient doesn't have it done, or he/she pays oop.

if people cannot explore preventative measures they get sick...then they get to pay for more expensive treatment (or society does) or the pharm cos. get to make new more expensive drugs...and round and round we go....

[Dreamline]

There are many things have will have to massively change if healthcare reform has even half a chance of working:

>Insurance companies will have to eventually be disbanded. A slow transitional plan will keep it from devisating our economy. They have been allowed to basically rape humanity for their own greed for decades. Their business model cannot be allowed to continue if we want to control spending AND have adequate care for all. They should exist for the benefit of humanity, not humanity existing for the benefit of their bottom line. Sorry if that's not the perfect capitalist ideal. We've been capitalized almost to death by them.

>Pharmaceuticals have to be looked upon as a last resort, not a first resort. Their business models have to change drastically as well. If you spend five billion dollars on creating a drug that has a marginal benefit to some people but side effects that will induce illnesses requiring excessive medical followup and even more pharmaceuticals to control, what exactly have you freaking helped with except to put more wealth into Big pharma and create a need for more Big pharma? Their business models are atrocious.

>The overall health of the American public has to exponentially increase. This is something only each individual American can control.

>Patients have to stop expecting miracles from medicine. Sometimes babies die in utero. Sometimes you cannot see a cancer on a mammogram. Sometimes a rare disease kills people. Sometimes a CAT scan is done a few days too early to tell if someone's aorta was about to burst. Sometimes you just weren't meant to be a parent. Suck it up. Adopt. Modern medicine is not the end-all, be-all patients make it out to be.

>Patients have to change their attitude about expecting fancy diagnostic tests for every ache and pain.

>Patients have to stop taking so many prescription drugs, for the love of Pete. They have to stop demanding drugs they've seen on TV from their MDs rather than letting their MDs diagnose them appropriately and prescribe as needed.

>Treat your MD as if he is a business partner. If he hasn't spent enough time with you, tell him you have further questions and would be happy to wait right here in your little paper gown until he has more time for you. If he is not as touchy feely, warm and cuddly as you seem to want, tell him you are concerned about his lack of bedside manner and will be expecting more warm and fuzzy, kissy poo poo crap when you come next time. (I prefer my science people scientific. I don't go to the doctor to get a nice warm high or have them blow smoke up my ass. If you look, you can find that kind of person, if that's what you think you need. But some of the best MDs have no personality whatsoever. But I know who I'd rather have taking care of me. The best one.)

>Patients have to stop litigating for everything they perceive as a medical error. MDs never signed up to be perfect and it's not their job to be psychic either. If MDs could counter-sue patients for misdiagnosing themselves, abusing themselves or failing to follow medical advice, they wouldn't have to shell out a dime, let alone hundreds of thousands in malpractice premiums. My MD's malpractice premiums cost more per year than I paid for my house. For each MD.

>Republicans have got to stop their childish anti-hype frenzy they are creating. They are fear-mongering you all so badly I can't believe we haven't asked for an inquiry. Creating scandal out of crumbs is what they are best at, as we have seen. Don't be a fool and buy into it. Keep your brain clear of propaganda so you can make the most lucid decisions possible in the times to come. This is important and your decisions should not be based on what Sean Hannity spews for the benefit of his own ratings.

>Lastly, people have got to get their heads out of their asses when it comes to people helping people. Universal healthcare is NOT the US turning socialist. If you count Medicare and Medicaid, we are almost 50% universal as it is. In a country as wealthy and prosperous as this, we should not have one of the lowest qualities of healthcare of all First World nations. It's dispicable that we allow the financial interests of insurers to be of more importance than your fellow human being's life. The fact that you can think of money while other people are dying from lack of a check up is not the behavior of the kind of society I ever wanted to be a part of. You?

I've said my piece here. I know what I am talking about. I have seen it everday for three decades. But you all can argue about all this. I have to move on.

Thanks for the support, James.

Jennifer

[aggie]

jennifer, thank you.

as someone in the medical field i can attest that everything you have said hit all the points that people need to make themselves aware of and our government needs to address.

it is not about doctors playing god...we have gotten too used to abusing ourselves and expecting science to fix it.

it is about everyone that is able making themselves knowledgeable about their own personal health and the coverage they do or don't have. i they cannot for some reason such as elderly or impaired, then they need advocates.

as you touched on part of the problem is malpractice...most doctors, including surgeons do not even carry insurance anymore because of the cost and that creates a whole new field of problems that boils down to money.

someone with beaucoup bucks or celebrity may always be able to transcend the average healthcare system...but for the rest of us we need something uniform, affordable, that the average person can understand that can be conducive to a society that can make money off of something else besides the health of its citizens.

[sepiagal]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

>Pharmaceuticals have to be looked upon as a last resort, not a first resort.
>The overall health of the American public has to exponentially increase. This is something only each individual American can control.
>Patients have to stop expecting miracles from medicine.
>Patients have to change their attitude about expecting fancy diagnostic tests for every ache and pain.
>Patients have to stop taking so many prescription drugs, for the love of Pete.
>Patients have to stop litigating for everything they perceive as a medical error. MDs never signed up to be perfect and it's not their job to be psychic either.
If MDs could counter-sue patients for misdiagnosing themselves, abusing themselves or failing to follow medical advice, they wouldn't have to shell out a dime, let alone hundreds of thousands in malpractice premiums.
>Lastly, people have got to get their heads out of their asses when it comes to people helping people.
Jennifer

Who looks at drugs as their choice? Did you survey a large group of people on this subject? If so where are your facts and stats?

How do you know that only Americans can control the expontial increase in their healthcare? Do you have any research to support this.

Who expects miracles from medicine? How do you know that? Survey? Or just your assumption.

How do you know about other people's attitudes concerning fancy diagnostic testing?

How do you know it is the patient's fault they are taking too many meds? How can patients correct this situation? Should they not fill prescriptions from doctors? Should they tell doctors not to give them prescriptions? Should they reduce the number of meds they take?

How do you know that every little medical error is litigatded? What is your research? What grounds would MDs have to counter sue patients for not being more careful about their health? How are MDs harmed by patients' disregard for their own health? Do you understand the concept of liability? How are patients liable to MDs?

How do you know people have their head up their asses? Have you examined them and seen this condition?

Head up ass sounds like a mental state or attitude to me. How do you know the mental state or attitude of other people? Are you claiming to be an empath?

If you want to talk about attitudes, expectations, etc, speak for yourself. The only attitudes and expectations you know are your own. You jump to conclusions about complete strangers' attitudes and expectations because you make snap judgments about them.

Some people seem gullible enough to think you know what you're talking about with your assumptions even though you have no facts or statistics to support your opinions and judgments. Your work experience doesn't not make your opinions or snap judgments any more meaningful than anyone else's opinions. If your opinions were based on interaction with 50,000 people they would be still be just opinions.

There isn't any profession qualified to know the attitudes of others; so professional experience is irrelevant. Psychologists know enough not to claim to know a patients attitude; they would only assume to know another's attitude.

Your statements assume you know the collective attitudes and collective expectations of American patients based on your opinion and your opinion only. Most educated people rely on surveys and research - and not opinions - for that kind of group consensus.

You have no facts whatsoever. You have opinions on things that are none of your business; patients attitudes are not your concern as a HC worker just like customers' attitudes are not customer service reps' concern. You should focus on your own attitude and doing your job with professionalism and objectivity.

Its easy for people to judge others because that helps them avoid looking at their own faults, defects and weaknesses.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by sepiagal

You have no facts whatsoever. You have opinions on things that are none of your business; patients attitudes are not your concern as a HC worker just like customers' attitudes are not customer service reps' concern. You should focus on your own attitude and doing your job with professionalism and objectivity.

Its easy for people to judge others because that helps them avoid looking at their own faults, defects and weaknesses.

Besides that this whole post is a bit too much... this stood out for me.

Of course it is her business as a HC worker how the patient is behaving and what attitude they take!!

One of the most important things of feeling good in a job is to feel appriciated and feel like you make a difference. How can you feel like that if people constantly ignore your advice and keep coming back with the same problems that could be fixed very easily if they just did some effort themselves. And then to hear them complain about the doctors, HC workers etc... this has a direct corrolation into her work, and therefor it is her business.

Sales people the same. How long do you think a sales person will be successful if all (or even most) of there clients are negative, insulting, don't use the product right and come back to complain... I can tell you not very long.

Furthermore...

How do you know people have their head up their asses? Have you examined them and seen this condition?

Are you serious...? Never heard of a figure of speach...?

[Indy107]

Wow. What a thread. Many varied viewpoints here. Jennifer, loved your reply.

Here's my last experience with a doc. It had been several years since I got my last physical. I am healthy, had cut out all sweets, sodas, etc. Was walking 3 miles to work every day, and was mostly on a vegetarian diet. I'm not a poster boy for perfect health by any means, but I was trying to be aware of what I was eating and trying to get exercise. I'm slightly overweight, but not obese. And I have had no chronic health problems ever. I was trying to do my part on my own as I hate seeing doctors and taking pills.

So I get a letter from my insurance company. If you don't get a physical within x number of days, we will drop your coverage? I thought "What the..." I'm healthy! Why do I need a physical! All they are going to do is make me wait an hour or more in a waiting room, spend 2 minutes poking and prodding me, and then find something they can prescribe a pill for. What happened? I spent an hour or more in the waiting room, then the doc (whom I've had for 10 yrs now) came in and poked and prodded me in places that have no business getting poked and prodded, then sent me on my way to blood tests. Results? "Your cholesterol is a little high, we have a pill for that". "It's been a while since your last Tetanus shot, we can take care of that".

Exactly what I expected. I said no thank you - I'm fine - if I need you - I'll call. And I left. Haven't been back since.

Fast forward to this last weekend. I went out of town to a wedding on my wife's side of the family. My brother in law's daughter got married. I am the black sheep of the family when I go up there because I'm a vegetarian and I "spend too much time on the Internet". I say that because whenever I try and say anything about health - I start an argument - and noone will ever listen. "I read too much". "You can't believe everything you read on the Internet".

My wife's parents are in their 70's, not healthy at all, take a pill for anything and everything, and constantly gripe about "fill in the blank". They eat like crap, every meal is centered around meat, and their idea of a vegetable is a can of green beans. And they love their sweets, cakes, pies, cobblers, ice cream. My wife's brother and his family are the same way. The reception dinner was all about BBQ meat and cases of beer. There's a lot of stress and bickering in that family, and his wife's side of the family is no different. They all eat like crap, don't take care of themselves, and Surprise, surprise they are usually obese and sick. And to top it all off, my brother in law just came down with a strange case of Guilliam Beret syndrome.

Coincidence? Say what you will, but I believe WE could do a lot for ourselves by just being aware. We KNOW too much of anything is bad for you. Especially when it's too much alcohol, too much sugar, tons of meat and very few fresh vegetables, and the stress! Cut the stress! They are living examples to me. If we could all just learn a tiny bit about nutrition and how our body's work, we would not need the doctors, pills, insurance companies, etc. as often as we do.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Based on the recent replies, the overall message from this thread seems to be the same. The majority of experiences with doctors seem to be negative, or at the very least not positive. There is disagreement over who is to blame (the doctors, the patients, the insurance companies, the media, the government, etc), but there seems little debate about there doctor visits being mostly negative experiences.

This thread has reaffirmed what I previously believed. It has also made it obvious to me that, like many other topics, there is no simple solution. While it seems that for the most part we can agree that doctor visits are negative experiences, we can't agree on the reason for that, nor the solution. I wasn't looking for a solution to come from this discussion, though, so that is ok.

I am actually surprised that there aren't more positive experiences discussed here. I expected most to be negative, but thought it would be a little more in balance than what we've seen so far.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

Based on the recent replies, the overall message from this thread seems to be the same. The majority of experiences with doctors seem to be negative, or at the very least not positive. There is disagreement over who is to blame (the doctors, the patients, the insurance companies, the media, the government, etc), but there seems little debate about there doctor visits being mostly negative experiences.

This thread has reaffirmed what I previously believed. It has also made it obvious to me that, like many other topics, there is no simple solution. While it seems that for the most part we can agree that doctor visits are negative experiences, we can't agree on the reason for that, nor the solution. I wasn't looking for a solution to come from this discussion, though, so that is ok.

I am actually surprised that there aren't more positive experiences discussed here. I expected most to be negative, but thought it would be a little more in balance than what we've seen so far.

You expected most to be negative, and that's what you sought out to find. Seek out and you shall find! People are natural complainers. If you go into something with negativity, all you will get out of it is negativity. All you'll see on here is negative experiences, because that's what sticks in peoples minds the strongest. If something good happens, you really don't think about it very much. The same experience can be bad for someone, while great for another. Since when is human perception the number one " say all, know all, go to guy" for what is real and what isn't? Tell me you don't trust human perception, let alone OTHER peoples perceptions? We've all been conditioned to think the way we think. If all your friends and family ever talked about is how bad doctors are, then doctors will be bad to you. Reverse the situation, and you get the same results. You did NOT come on here, and you did NOT post this thread looking for positive experiences. You might as well have made the title " please post your negative experiences with doctors" so that at least only the people you want will actually click on your thread in the first place.

That's the human condition. We love to complain and we love to hear other peoples complaints. Makes us feel better about our own complaints. Never ending cycle which feeds off of it self. What do you remember more, your best date or your worse? What experiences in your life do you concentrate more? When something bad happens, we can't help but to explore it to death. Then to blame others for it, and then to complain to others so that you can reaffirm your initial blame, because it's really " never our fault". That much thought and concentration pretty much is like pouring concrete on those experiences. The positive ones will just bounce right off like they never even happened.

I've never had a negative doctor visit. Maybe you need to look into why you feel they are negative? Why is it not your fault? Go to another doctor the second you don't feel comfortable about it. No one forced you to stick with the ONE doctor.

Why don't you go to a forum where people talk about how they were cured by doctors? Not a forum which pretty much hates everything having to do with doctors, because doctors "hate" ' their new age, pill hating, fixing the problem before it occurs, beliefs? I can see why people on here wouldn't like them. I don't like a lot of things about doctors too, but that's because of my beliefs, and not because of them.

Then you'll be saying

" oh no, this is the opposite of what I thought. Why are there so many positive experiences?? I don't get it!. All doctors are bad, and that's my belief that I came on here to reaffirm. REAFFIRM PLEASE! "

Go to one of the forums I frequent, and everyone hates Obama. Be on this forum, and everyone loves him. Don't let bias cloud your judgment.

[Indy107]

I don't hate my doctor. I would just prefer not having to see him to begin with. And I believe that he, and probably many others, have been bought and paid for by the insurance companies and the pill companies. Which is why I try to take control over my own health. The healthier I am, the less I have to worry about him and his pills.

I have heard stories from co-workers that they have 'good doctors'. Doctors who actually care, and see us as people and not just another patient or another number. I'm glad for that. I just don't see it in my experience.

Amazing isn't it how "belief" plays into this? So many people who don't 'believe' they have any control? They 'believe' their problems are hereditary? Or they 'believe' that the FDA really cares about our nation's food supply, and that "they wouldn't sell it if it was bad for us". And to top it all off, they 'believe' that doctors know absolutely everything and have our best interests at heart? They are perfectly happy giving away all their power to someone else. They have no responsibility at all. It's always someone else's fault they get sick.

They simply don't realize the power that each one of us really have. And how much our attitudes, thoughts, and beliefs really matter.

[lifetimelearner]

wow interesting stuff going on here

I am a healthcare worker also -
and I have seen lots of stuff going on in the world of heathcare

I believe md's need to have more training in the area of alternative medicine and also nutrition
I have actually heard md's say that they had very little training in those areas esp nutrition

what it boils down to is education
we as individuals have to be knowledgeable about our bodies and how to take care of ourselves -we have to be our own advocates


and for those individuals with mental issues or low iq's -they need a good support system to help them with their decisions


parents teach your kids at home -do not rely on the school system
(we also teach by example )

I have talked with many older people that have said to me -
I should follow what he says (he being the md ) because that is the right thing to do
no it's not necessarily the right thing to do
but a lot of them grew up looking up to md's as if their word was handed down


anyway I could talk for hours but my point here is be educated folks

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by Indy107

Amazing isn't it how "belief" plays into this? So many people who don't 'believe' they have any control? They 'believe' their problems are hereditary? Or they 'believe' that the FDA really cares about our nation's food supply, and that "they wouldn't sell it if it was bad for us". And to top it all off, they 'believe' that doctors know absolutely everything and have our best interests at heart? They are perfectly happy giving away all their power to someone else. They have no responsibility at all. It's always someone else's fault they get sick.

They simply don't realize the power that each one of us really have. And how much our attitudes, thoughts, and beliefs really matter.

here here.

[lifetimelearner]

"They simply don't realize the power that each one of us really have. "-
posted by Indy107

yes and we have the power through education

[aggie]

jamesbiz, if your theory is correct, then all the right people are on the wrong forum...that way they have lots to complain about!

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

"They simply don't realize the power that each one of us really have. "-
posted by Indy107

yes and we have the power through education

The power is not through education, but how we use it. Doctors had education to you know. The smartest people aren't always the ones that have the most education. Truth is where power comes from. Once you can weed through the lies and discover the truth, then you'll be all powerful. If you get your power from the lies you've learned through education ( lol which honestly, have you met some of these college graduates these days?), then that is not power at all.

[aggie]

exactly, one could have all kinds of degrees and have absolutely zero ability to apply it clinically to whatever it is they do. need a little common sense and street smart with the book smart.

[lifetimelearner]

james we are on the same side here and I agree with you

so I will say -

education is powerful but has to be in the hands of those that know the truth

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

james we are on the same side here and I agree with you

so I will say -

education is powerful but has to be in the hands of those that know the truth

Not disagreeing with you by what I posted. It's all down to semantics.

[lifetimelearner]

and education doesn't necessarily have to come from books

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

Not disagreeing with you by what I posted. It's all down to semantics.

gotcha

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

You expected most to be negative, and that's what you sought out to find. Seek out and you shall find! People are natural complainers. If you go into something with negativity, all you will get out of it is negativity. All you'll see on here is negative experiences, because that's what sticks in peoples minds the strongest. If something good happens, you really don't think about it very much. The same experience can be bad for someone, while great for another. Since when is human perception the number one " say all, know all, go to guy" for what is real and what isn't? Tell me you don't trust human perception, let alone OTHER peoples perceptions? We've all been conditioned to think the way we think. If all your friends and family ever talked about is how bad doctors are, then doctors will be bad to you. Reverse the situation, and you get the same results. You did NOT come on here, and you did NOT post this thread looking for positive experiences. You might as well have made the title " please post your negative experiences with doctors" so that at least only the people you want will actually click on your thread in the first place.

I'm not sure why you think you know what I did come here looking to find. It is true that I had expectations based on my experiences, but my post was about hearing what other people have experienced. If all I wanted to do was go off of my own experiences, I wouldn't have asked others for theirs. I have my opinion on the doctor's I've visited, but I can't possibly have an opinion about all doctor's. The more experiences I hear from a wider variety of people, the better informed I will be to form an overall opinion.

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

That's the human condition. We love to complain and we love to hear other peoples complaints. Makes us feel better about our own complaints. Never ending cycle which feeds off of it self. What do you remember more, your best date or your worse? What experiences in your life do you concentrate more? When something bad happens, we can't help but to explore it to death. Then to blame others for it, and then to complain to others so that you can reaffirm your initial blame, because it's really " never our fault". That much thought and concentration pretty much is like pouring concrete on those experiences. The positive ones will just bounce right off like they never even happened.

When I was asked about my experiences with doctors I started by talking about the one doctor with whom I have had a positive experience. That doctor stands out in my mind because it is unlike the majority of other experiences with doctors. I purposely chose to not bring my own experiences into the thread until asked, because I wanted to hear other's experiences and not cloud the topic by starting off with my negative experiences.

It sounds like you tend to concentrate on the negative experiences, and believe that most others do as well. I find that interesting. I am the opposite. Which life experiences do I remember most? The good ones. The bad ones do stick out in my mind prominently for a short time, but in the long run it is the good experiences I remember. Life is too short to waste time thinking about the bad things that have happened in the past.

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

I've never had a negative doctor visit. Maybe you need to look into why you feel they are negative? Why is it not your fault? Go to another doctor the second you don't feel comfortable about it. No one forced you to stick with the ONE doctor.

It is great that you've never had a negative doctor visit. Have you had ones that you would consider positive? Visits that really stand out in your mind, and make you want to recommend that doctor to others or tell others what a good experience it was? I think that most doctor's visits are "normal", not really negative or positive. I also think that what we consider "normal" may be considered negative in other areas of our life. For example, if your mechanic had you bring your car in weekly to run a variety of tests, changed out several parts and never really found out the root cause of the issue that would be considered a negative experience by most. When a doctor does something similar, however, it is considered "normal".

As for trying out more than one doctor, you have a point there. I think that it is a patient's responsibility to not continue to visit a doctor you aren't happy with. As someone mentioned earlier, patients need to "fire" bad doctors. Unforutnately, most people can't shop around to find the best doctor, since not all doctor's accept all insurance. In the town I life, for example, I had the option of a clinic with 5 doctors on staff and then 1 other doctor who had his own practice. I tried the clinic at first, and did not like the doctor (or the clinic itself for that matter), so tried the other doctor. I have never had any negative experiences with my current doctor (been seeing him for 8 years), so have stayed with him. I wouldn't call my doctor visits positive; they are what most would consider "normal" I think. I admit that I am settling for a doctor that is "acceptable", rather than shopping around for a more positive experience. I certainly could visit doctor's in other nearby towns until I found one I was happier with. If I ever have a negative experience with my doctor I will do that. As long as my visits are "normal", then I will stick with this doctor, rather than driving to the next town. I take responsibility for that choice. If I begin having bad experiences with this doctor, but stick with him for some reason I will also accept the responsibility for that situation.

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

Why don't you go to a forum where people talk about how they were cured by doctors? Not a forum which pretty much hates everything having to do with doctors, because doctors "hate" ' their new age, pill hating, fixing the problem before it occurs, beliefs? I can see why people on here wouldn't like them. I don't like a lot of things about doctors too, but that's because of my beliefs, and not because of them.

Then you'll be saying

" oh no, this is the opposite of what I thought. Why are there so many positive experiences?? I don't get it!. All doctors are bad, and that's my belief that I came on here to reaffirm. REAFFIRM PLEASE! "

Go to one of the forums I frequent, and everyone hates Obama. Be on this forum, and everyone loves him. Don't let bias cloud your judgment.

I don't think that simply being cured by a doctor is the same as having a positive experience. Certainly anyone who is sick is glad to be cured, but that is what we expect from a doctor, that is why we hired him. Back to the mechanic analogy, when I have a problem with my car I take it to the mechanic with the expectation that the problem will be solved. If it gets fixed with no problems I consider it a "normal' experience, since they performed the task I hired them to do. I wouldn't consider the experience positive, unless they went above and beyond in terms of service, solved a problem that several other mechanics were unable to solve, or found a better or cheaper way of solving the issue, etc.

Would you mind sharing links to some of the forums you frequent? I'd be interested in checking them out and seeing some other opinions. I don't think that everyone who visits this site is a doctor hater, as you seem to believe, but it can't hurt to hear experiences from a wider variety of people.