Why Vegan?

[Athos09]

Hello,

I am new here and have only recently discovered this site. When I decided to visit the forums I went straight to the health section as I like to think myself very nutrition savvy. As I read through all of the posts, I noticed a lot of the posters were on a vegan/raw diets.

I am sure this topic has been posted a thousand times before. I am just here to ask: why?

[ginkgo]

A lot of it is opinion but here are the undisputed scientific facts. Americans do not get enough fiber. Fiber is needed for health to prevent colon cancer and other things. Dietary cholesterol can raise cholesterol. All plant foods have fiber. No animal foods have fiber. No plant foods have any cholesterol. All animal foods have cholesterol.

With animals they inject them with drugs like antibiotics and female growth hormones to fatten them up. See the article on protein and carbs on this page to see how people are getting too much protein that is causing cardiovascular problems and other health problems.

[aelle]

Do you mean: why are there so many vegans on this board? Probably because Steve is vegan and has blogged extensively on the topic.

Or do you mean: why do people choose to go vegan? I can only answer for myself, but I did so for the animals, for the planet and for humankind, in this order. The positive health impact is just a nice side effect for me.

[Dreamline]

Originally Posted by Athos09

Hello,

I am new here and have only recently discovered this site. When I decided to visit the forums I went straight to the health section as I like to think myself very nutrition savvy. As I read through all of the posts, I noticed a lot of the posters were on a vegan/raw diets.

I am sure this topic has been posted a thousand times before. I am just here to ask: why?

Because one self-appointed guru or another said to eat that way.

I listened to a particular one called Harvey Diamond with Fit For Life: Living Health. An older system called Natural Hygiene is the basis for the FFL diet. The reason I started as a vegan, this was in 1992, was because I had intractible heartburn. (I think it's called GERD now, a real live "disease" ever since there were perscription drugs to help with it.) What Harvey said made sense to anyone who has taken even the most basic chemistry class. If you take an acid and mix it with an alkaline, they neutralize each other. Well, when you eat meat, which requires a highly acidic digestive environment, and have it with rice, potatoes, pasta and/or corn, all of which require an alkaline environment, the juices are neutralized and no digestion takes place. So your body responds to this calamity with MORE acid and then more alkaline, more acid and more alkaline...ad nauseum. And you get heartburn.

I tried Fit For Life and had no heartburn ever again after three days. None. They recommended vegan, and I was allergic to dairy anyway, so I did it, though you can do FFL and still eat meat. They tell you what to do to avoid the heartburn.

A month later, I had lost 18 lbs sort of by accident. I only realized when my clothes started falling off. So I stuck with it for about 8 years. Lost 71 lbs, felt great, it helped with some of my food allergies.

So that is why, for me. Now, I follow a more low carb, moderate protein diet which is more sustainable for my metabolic type.

Jennifer

[Herbivore]

Why Vegan?

I thought I address that in every one of my arguments. It's the original way of eating, intended by nature. And plant food contains everything we need, but hardly anything that takes a toll on the body. Some animals only started eating other animals(and not just the meat) when food was scarce.

Because one self-appointed guru or another said to eat that way.

I've been vegan longer than Steve. I'm here to converse with others who take a smart approach to health.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by Herbivore

I thought I address that in every one of my arguments. It's the original way of eating, intended by nature. And plant food contains everything we need, but hardly anything that takes a toll on the body. Some animals only started eating other animals(and not just the meat) when food was scarce.



I've been vegan longer than Steve. I'm here to converse with others who take a smart approach to health.

You keep saying that, yet you have NO PROOF that it was the original way of eating. And even if it was, we'd be so far removed from it that our bodies are no longer able to process veggies in that matter. Even then, almost everyone ate meat, even at a low percentages, while vegans and vegetarians eat ZERO meat. But, luckily, we weren't ever like that.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

You keep saying that, yet you have NO PROOF that it was the original way of eating. And even if it was, we'd be so far removed from it that our bodies are no longer able to process veggies in that matter. Even then, almost everyone ate meat, even at a low percentages, while vegans and vegetarians eat ZERO meat. But, luckily, we weren't ever like that.

Jamesbiz, please stay on topic. This thread is for the vegans here to explain why they eat this way, I think it's not meant to be a ferocious discussion about whether they are right or not. We already have these arguments in other threads. Could we make this one about understanding for a change?

[munish]

It is mainly because of mental clarity reason.

Originally Posted by Athos09

Hello,

I am new here and have only recently discovered this site. When I decided to visit the forums I went straight to the health section as I like to think myself very nutrition savvy. As I read through all of the posts, I noticed a lot of the posters were on a vegan/raw diets.

I am sure this topic has been posted a thousand times before. I am just here to ask: why?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Athos09

why?

Hi Athos,

here are my reasons, I'll try to keep it short.

Why vegan?

- Mainly for ethical reasons. I feel that we don't have the right to use other animals as if they were objects. What we currently do with them for me is exactly like slavery and concentration camps in one. I believe that some day it will be forbidden and that "It's just an animal" will be considered just as barbarous as we now think about "It's just a n*gger".

- For environmental reasons. You'll find plenty of data about how many more resources are needed and how much more waste is created when "producing" meat compared to plant based foods. I believe the negative impact of a vegan diet on the environment to be much lower than of one based on animal products.

- For political reasons. I think it's a shame that so much soy, corn etc. is produced in so-called third-world countries to feed cattle, just so that we rich guys in the western world can eat meat every day, instead of this land being used to grow stuff that would prevent the people there from starving.

- Instinct. When I see another animal, I would never think "Mmmm, I'd like to eat you". But I do think this way when I see a cherry tree full of cherries. Enough said for me!

- Health reasons, but not really. I believe a vegan diet can be healthier than a meat-based one, but I also consider grains and sugar to be much unhealthier than for example meat, so vegan does not equate healthy in my eyes.

Why raw?

- Mainly for health reasons. I've been very sick in the past and experimented with lots of different diets. A 100% raw, vegan diet with no grains is the healthiest I ever tried out. I noticed huge health benefits when switching to raw.

- To boost my psychic abilities.

- And more generally because I just feel intuitively drawn to doing it.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Jamesbiz, please stay on topic. This thread is for the vegans here to explain why they eat this way, I think it's not meant to be a ferocious discussion about whether they are right or not. We already have these arguments in other threads. Could we make this one about understanding for a change?

He's spouting false facts, and I'm trying stop those false facts from being spread, and you are telling ME to stay on topic? You want me to understand what exactly? I don't want someone becoming a vegan just because of "facts" that he has not supported.

[Dreamline]

His facts are real if you completely ignore the entire science of paleontology and anthropolgy.

Jennifer

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by aelle

Do you mean: why are there so many vegans on this board? Probably because Steve is vegan and has blogged extensively on the topic.

Or do you mean: why do people choose to go vegan? I can only answer for myself, but I did so for the animals, for the planet and for humankind, in this order. The positive health impact is just a nice side effect for me.

I think that the vegan movement is not helped by people saying that they like animals more than people. Also without a planet, animals would have no where to live. You placed the order of importance 1. animals 2. planet 3. humans.

I can understand this. People have hurt you but animals have not. But there are people not animals reading this forum. It would be good to say if animals were reading this forum.

I am not saying that you should lie. No! This is how you feel. But it will not help the vegan movement to tell the people reading this forum that you care more for a rat or a snake then you do for them. I like snakes. I am just suggesting that maybe some things at certain places should be kept to oneself.

I am a vegan and went to a meeting for many vegan groups in Philadelphia. They were discussing strategies and had found that saying things like the following were the best at getting people interested in becoming vegan:

By not eating meat, you do more to help the ecology of the planet and protect against global warming than doing anything else including switching to a hybrid car. In a groundbreaking 2006 report, the United Nations (U.N.) said that raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases (carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide) than all the cars and trucks in the world combined.

I do not know you but I love you because you are a vegan. But I think that humans have the greatest potential for good on this planet. Humans have a divine soul. In the movie, The Return of Superman (2 Jews created Superman), Jor-El (Supermans father) says that he feels that the humans on earth have a great potential and this is why "I have sent them, you, my only son", to be with them and help show them what they can be.

[aelle]

sigh, gingko... these are the reasons I chose a very specific part of my life. Not the values that dictate my whole existence. I went to a specific engineering school because I liked maths and science, so that I could learn marketable skills and because its syllabus would give me plenty of opportunities to grow. Does that mean I value maths more than anything else in my life? No...

[kattsand]

Originally Posted by Herbivore

It's the original way of eating, intended by nature.

Ok, you don't know much about the world do you?. If you would live in let's say Sweden for an example in the forest in some hut or something 500 years ago without your microwave, freezer and exotic imported fruits and stuff you would probably survive the summer and then die when winter comes.

Or let's take the desert or savanna (where humans first came to). What variety of plants do you have there that you could survive on?

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by kattsand

Ok, you don't know much about the world do you?. If you would live in let's say Sweden for an example in the forest in some hut or something 500 years ago without your microwave, freezer and exotic imported fruits and stuff you would probably survive the summer and then die when winter comes.

Or let's take the desert or savanna (where humans first came to). What variety of plants do you have there that you could survive on?

I'd eat fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds.

I'm preeeetty sure other herbivorous animals live just fine in those conditions... At the most I'd eat insects maybe a small animal like a squirrel if I was starved.

[kattsand]

Originally Posted by Beuford

I'd eat fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds.

I'm preeeetty sure other herbivorous animals live just fine in those conditions... At the most I'd eat insects maybe a small animal like a squirrel if I was starved.

Those animals survive here because they can build huge fat reserves on plants and stuff and then live of it the whole winter. Humans can't do that (No gingko you can't go on a 4 month fast in the dead of winter and survive). And also they have thick fur. Or they just hibernate.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by Beuford

I'd eat fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds.

I'm preeeetty sure other herbivorous animals live just fine in those conditions... At the most I'd eat insects maybe a small animal like a squirrel if I was starved.

IF we were herbivorous animals, then yes, we'd live just fine in those conditions as well. We can't eat most of the plants herbivore animals can.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by Beuford

I'd eat fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds.

I'm preeeetty sure other herbivorous animals live just fine in those conditions... At the most I'd eat insects maybe a small animal like a squirrel if I was starved.

If you are an herbivorous animal like claim to be then why not just go to your back yard, and start eating grass. I'm sure it will save on the grocery bill. Oh wait, that's right humans can't process grass efficiently enough, nor eat enough to survive off of, because we aren't herbivorous.

[Joeschmoe]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

If you are an herbivorous animal like claim to be then why not just go to your back yard, and start eating grass. I'm sure it will save on the grocery bill. Oh wait, that's right humans can't process grass efficiently enough, nor eat enough to survive off of, because we aren't herbivorous.

Hey Straw man. how are you?

Your assumption is that Herbivorous=Grass eating. In fact there are a wide variety of herbivores. Some that can process cellulose, some that can't. It would be like me saying, "if you want to be a carnivore why don't you go take a bite out of a moose?" "Oh, well you can't do that because bla bla bla. Me saying that would be just as fallacious as your argument.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

Hey Straw man. how are you?

Your assumption is that Herbivorous=Grass eating. In fact there are a wide variety of herbivores. Some that can process cellulose, some that can't. It would be like me saying, "if you want to be a carnivore why don't you go take a bite out of a moose?" "Oh, well you can't do that because bla bla bla. Me saying that would be just as fallacious as your argument.

Actually carnivores can eat ANY meat. So his argument actually would work in that sense. And yes we can eat raw meat, and it's even easier then cooked. Just that mass production has made them unhealthy to eat raw, which is why we cook it. Unless you are referring to the fact that we can't literally take a bite out of a moose like carnivores?

Luckily humans aren't and do not want to be carnivores unlike humans wanting to be herbivores. No one has ever said (EVER) that humans are meant to only eat meat. People have said that humans are meant to only eat veggies tho. Burden of proof is on you now. Think up a new argument please.


and even then, most animal herbivores do and have always ingested bugs.

[KtotheB]

I initially became vegetarian over 15 years ago because of my love of animals. I now eat a mostly vegan raw diet, but it's more because of the way it makes me feel (great!). I just wrote about this recently: Raw Food Diet Benefits

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by KtotheB

I initially became vegetarian over 15 years ago because of my love of animals. I now eat a mostly vegan raw diet, but it's more because of the way it makes me feel (great!). I just wrote about this recently: Raw Food Diet Benefits

When I made a comment that a lot of people are vegans because of moral issues and not because of the health benefits, I got chewed out. Yet I see person after person saying that they did it for that exact same reason. Because they care about the animals in one for or another

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by Joeschmoe

Hey Straw man. how are you?

Your assumption is that Herbivorous=Grass eating. In fact there are a wide variety of herbivores. Some that can process cellulose, some that can't. It would be like me saying, "if you want to be a carnivore why don't you go take a bite out of a moose?" "Oh, well you can't do that because bla bla bla. Me saying that would be just as fallacious as your argument.

I don't want to be a carnivoire, I'm an omnivoire. And I could take a bite out of a moose as soon as I killed it. No my assumption is I want to see you live in the woods in the dead of winter, and eat only plant food. Not only could an omnivoire live in the woods during the dead of winter, and survive, we could thrive. I actually have. I also find it funny that if humans are herbavoires, why are only 2% of the population vegan? It seems to me that if we were suited for a plant only diet that more people would do it. Although if you had to support yourself on plants only it becomes really hard when they die because of winter, you have no grocery store to shop at, and no body to bring you food. You will eigther die, or eat a damn animal. I tried a vegan diet, and I became sickly, and felt terrible, so don't tell me it makes me healthy, because it did the opposite, and I'll never listen to one of these "gurus" ever again.

[harmonysr]

I don't usually like to put labels on my eating habits, but if I were to, it'd be "almost completely vegan."

I eat almost exclusively vegetables, grains, and fruits because that is what intuitively feels best to my body and which gives me the most energy. Everyone is different, and that is what works for me. Dairy makes me violently sick so I avoid it at all costs. I really don't like the taste of meat or eggs straight, so I don't eat that.

In the past, I've experimented with raw and fruitarian diets - they didn't make me feel well, long term, so I do not eat that way.

Overall, I eat what makes me feel good, and don't want food to add excessive stress to my life. This is why I don't do labels - the restriction cause tension and worry. If someone kindly made a dessert for me, I'll enjoy it without worrying if there is any gelatin or something in it, instead appreciating their generosity. I try to enjoy life, and I eat the way I do because it positively impacts my lifestyle.

[Herbivore]

Ok, you don't know much about the world do you?

It seems I know things you don't, and therefore, aren't thinking of. I will explain:

1. Humans, being hairless, are tropical animals. Having studied Astronomy(and all the other sciences in the '80s) I know how the Earth moves in relation to the Sun. From the tropic of Capricorn and tropic of Cancer(23.5 degrees south and north = the Tropics) it is always summer. Fruit and veggies are always in season.

2. Humans were only able to migrate to Sweden by being able to make clothing and build shelter.

It seems to me that if we were suited for a plant only diet that more people would do it.

Are you thinking before you type? About 2% don't drink alcohol. Are Women suited for holes in their ears? Modern humans do everything they can invent to go against their nature: Smoking, flying, Pill to sleep/ alarm clocks to wake up.........everything. That's why people need more pills for all their problems-from living un-naturally.

I haven't taken meds in 9 years. I'll bet 98% of the population can't say that.

[jamesbiz]

I haven't taken meds in 6 years and I LOVE meat. And actually in that time, I ate almost no veggies at all. For about 4 months out of those 6 years I was on the adkins diet so I ate about 4 steaks a day, and 4 chicken breasts, as well as fish, etc etc.








next? Eating meat is not the issue for everyone's problems. Eating unhealthy tho is.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by Herbivore

It seems I know things you don't, and therefore, aren't thinking of. I will explain:

1. Humans, being hairless, are tropical animals. Having studied Astronomy(and all the other sciences in the '80s) I know how the Earth moves in relation to the Sun. Within the tropic of Capricorn(23 degrees north and south = the Tropics) it is always summer. Fruit and veggies are always in season.

2. Humans were only able to migrate to Sweden by being able to make clothing and build shelter.


Are you thinking before you type? About 2% don't drink alcohol. Are Women suited for holes in their ears? Modern humans do everything they can invent to go against their nature: Smoking, flying, Pill to sleep/ alarm clocks to wake up.........everything. That's why people need more pills for all their problems-from living un-naturally.

I haven't taken meds in 9 years. I'll bet 98% of the population can't say that.

Actually the last study I looked at says 32% don't drink alcohol. Eating meat wasn't invented, it's something humans as well as other animals have done since the dawn of time. As for me I have never taken any pills, and eat meat daily, as a matter of fact for most of my life I ate little to no veggies. My great gramps is in his mid 90's eats bacon and eggs for breakfast, and some sort of meat at every meal, guess what he's healthy, and takes no medication. He gets grass fed, and wild meats, and thats the difference. Whole foods in balance is key, not some xtreme diet that restricts different types of foods. P.S. I'm not hairless!

[Herbivore]

So aside from details to be nitpicked(avoidance response), my points are taken??


Well I've tired of the red herrings, and straw mans and general run-around for this week.