Ever tried a paleo diet...

[Dreamline]

That "starving" response makes me wonder what your blood type is.

Maybe at the beginning of this diet you will be assaulted with messages from your body where it literally fears you are starving it because it is no longer getting it's sugar fix. That is more of an addiction response like withdrawal. But later, you should completely lose the sensation of hunger pangs and even may have to remind yourself to eat.

I've gone whole days where I have literally forgotten to eat. As good as I feel on it, I could probably fast for three days without any ill effects in energy as long as I had water.

Jennifer

[ericabiz]

Hi Dreamline,

Not sure what my blood type is...can you believe I got a blood test and they didn't type me? *grumble*! Maybe I'll ask my parents and see if they remember.

So far I've made it through the day with the following menu:

Breakfast: cooked shrimp
Lunch: Pulled pork; carrots with ranch dressing
Snack: Tilapia filet (this was not very good; I think because it was prev. frozen; will try getting from the counter at the store and grilling myself next time)
Snack #2 (since the tilapia filet was bad): Canned tuna with mayo, garlic powder
I also had a spoonful of peanut butter while I was waiting for the tilapia to cook since I crashed hard and needed a pick me up! Will try to substitute this out with something better later.
Dinner: 2 uncured turkey hot dogs with organic ketchup and Dijon mustard (yeah, this is on the "avoid" list, but I needed something I could cook easily -- will substitute later on in the game when I better understand how to cook)

Also chewed a few pieces of sugarfree gum throughout the day to stave off carb cravings.

I have some corn on the cob, carrots, and lettuce in the fridge; I may make these later if I get hungry.

Not too bad for the first stab at it; some hits and misses for sure, but here's the important thing: I didn't crash and take a nap in the middle of the afternoon, despite not having taken any of my blood sugar regulating supplements. This is a big difference and is enough to warrant cutting down on carbs substantially, if not entirely!

The worst I felt was after eating the tuna; this was at my normal downtime around 3:30PM, so I went outside and took a short walk and felt much better.

-Erica

[Excellent Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Beuford

Excellent lodestar, those aren't the only raw foods. And those foods were rarely seen over 10000 years ago.

That's correct;they were rarley "seen" by hunter gatherer because there was no agrarian refining process yet. that includes the "art of cooking"

Originally Posted by Beuford

Try eating a raw orange.

all season long...

Originally Posted by Beuford

Then try eating raw beef. Perhaps you can adapt to tolerate raw meat, but the human body can only take so much, it's not the best option.

Well, i never said that meat should be 65%+ of the diet or whatever,not me. Paleo man, on a good hunting day/week, ate that much I'm sure, but my guess is that those lucky streaks were few and far between.Hunting has too many variables, it seems to me,and consistency, diet-wise,only came with the advent on agrarian society.

Before that, life was HARD, and nothing if not unpredictable. that variation itself however is what the human genome thrives on--- periodic fasting, light steady work one day, running for shelter from preds the next.
that's Pleo to me---nothing is static; not diet, not exercise...constant variation. but the background principle IS constant: if you can't catch it or pick it, AS IS,(no refining to make palpable--ie wheat /corn/soy/rice products) you're better off without it, health wise

[Beuford]

All I was originally trying to say is that there doesn't have to be so much emphasis on meat to be paleo

[Dreamline]

Beuford is probably right. But I think they ate way less than three meals a day. They may have not even eaten everyday. Ketosis is their saving grace. It means that if they had body fat, they were using it as fuel. If they were eating fat, it was used as fuel. It also energizes the muscles and puts down hunger like water on fire.

So a true modern paleo will follow Excellent's advice. Forget three meals a day. Forget eating the same things all the time. Strenuous workouts like running, swimming, hard yard work, etc. Fast periodically. Vary your meats and proteins. Forget grains, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, rice, bread, past and most fruits. Get a lot of sun and outdoor time. Drink plenty of water and nothing but water.

It's definitely not for everyone. I don't personally know many people, other than myself and my mom, who could do this diet and not whine like babies away from the warm teat.

Jennifer

[liamona]

Originally Posted by ericabiz

Not too bad for the first stab at it; some hits and misses for sure, but here's the important thing: I didn't crash and take a nap in the middle of the afternoon, despite not having taken any of my blood sugar regulating supplements. This is a big difference and is enough to warrant cutting down on carbs substantially, if not entirely!

That's great Erica! Hang in there.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

It's definitely not for everyone. I don't personally know many people, other than myself and my mom, who could do this diet and not whine like babies away from the warm teat.

*Chuckle* Especially those who think a bowl of cereal constitutes a meal!

[agnostic]

Hi Beuford! Thanks for your questions. Yes, I even think we ate more than 80% meat (in terms of calories) in paleo times. Meat was THE calories source of early man.
Yes, other carnivores don't become more intelligent by meat-eating. The reason we did was that our intelligence was our main weapon. We have no fangs and no claws and we are not that fast. We were monkeys (well, apes) in the beginning. Our evolutionary niche was the savannah, not a tropic rainforest. An there the most calorie-dense food which is around all the time is the other animals that run around. Since based on our physiology alone we would suck as hunters, we developed the advantage of higher intelligence to make up for it by creating weapons and speech basically. This way, we became a highly successful hunting species. The mechanism for the feedback-loop is that with meat being eaten as calorie-dense food, our guts were shrinking and required less energy to extract calories and nutrients from food, which left more energy for a hungry brain. Our brain/bodyweight ratio is several times bigger than in other apes. The availability of lots of animal fat and protein gave us the required energy to feed this brain. I'd say that we are the smartest carnivore because we lack all the other weapons other carnivores possess. Intelligence is basically all we have.
Also, most plant foods we have today, all the fruits and veggies we have are available throughout the year unlike in nature where some of them appear in some places some of the time. Also, almost all the plantfood we have has been genetically altered to match our needs. Be it simply breeding to radiation treatment to chemical treatment. All the plant foods we eat today are deliberately bred for higher calories and lower toxins. They never existed in the times we evolved in (and until recently nobody cared about genetically modifying our foods). So plant food was (and still is) mostly toxic (except our genetically modified plant foods, which are most of the stuff we eat today, like corn, grains, rice, fruit, salads, veggies). Sure, the animals are being bred, too, based on consumer demand, for increased milk and meat production with fat content based on the breed of the animal.
But I consider it clear that humans evolved mostly on meat. All the changes we have gone through from being monkeys make sense in this light and don't make sense if we had been keeping on eating mostly fruits and veggies as many other monkeys do. The key difference is intelligence. And I can't see how this would have evolved to the highest degree on earth in an animal without an evolutionary pressure. And it is pretty clear among anthropologists today that man was mainly a hunter, not a gatherer.

The only vitamin I can be thought of to be deficient in by eating meat by current standards is Vitamin C. However, I need less Vitamin C, because the amounts I do eat do not compete with carbohydrates on their way into my cells and are thus used and not flushed out. Basically, I need less Vitamin C. Otherwise I would have died of scurvy by now. They have tested this in a scientific study where two people were eating only (cooked) meat for an entire year. The idea was that they would develop deficiency diseases, but the study concluded that "The only dramatic part of the study was the surprisingly undramatic nature of the fundings" and "vitamin deficiencies did not appear".

I do eat some plant food every now and again. But health benefits of low-carb (high-meat) diets are actually quite well-documented if you are willing to look for them. I am open to the possibility that we may be evolved to be omivores, eating both high-veggie/fruit AND meat, which is called the paleo diet by Loren Cordain,(but it just doesn't look like that to me now) - however I doubt that we ever were evolved to eat zero animal food.

Again, thanks for your comments. And thanks for being considerate despite your disagreement. It's seldom on the internet.

Originally Posted by Beuford

First sentence, so you think we ate more than 50% meat in paleo times? I would have thought 5%, maybe 10%, only more when plants and their fruit weren't available. Insects obviously would have been included, as I doubt they were too picky about them being on their plants.

I don't understand your reason behind more meat leading to a bigger and smarter brain. Why aren't carnivores smarter than us then? If you think it is because the protein and calories in meat, well there are more than enough protein and calories in plants too... and fat.

And as someone else said, about fruit and plants making you hungry a few hours later and meat making you last longer and being able to skip for days even, plants are complex carbohydrate rich unlike meat and take longer to break down(which is why we have the herbivore length of a digestive system) and so the energy in plants lasts longer than the energy in meat.

If you only eat meat, you'll be deficient in some vitamins.

So having given my thoughts I just want to say that I'm not against anyone, just their opinions. I'm not here to make enemies or force my opinion on anyone, just to share it and discuss it.

[agnostic]

Originally Posted by liamona

Don't mention him around here, because he's regarded as some random guy who went camping with Eskimos.

Hm. ...

Okay.

Originally Posted by liamona

Thanks for the link to the Zerocarbage.com (great name!) site. I'd never heard of it before. I hope more people will realize that "Controlling insulin is the key to stopping the progress of premature aging and chronic disease."

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by liamona

Good Calories, Bad Calories is a great book! I wonder if it's out in paperback yet?

Yup. I have it as a paperback.

Originally Posted by liamona

Interesting point, but I want to mention that lard is only about 38 to 43% saturated fat. It's 47–50% monounsaturated fat like what's touted as "good" in olives.

Yeah, I know. But there is a lot of (allegedly bad) saturated fat in there still. There's a new book by Uffe Ravnskov called "Saturated Fat and Cholesterol are good for you". I just had to buy it.

Originally Posted by liamona

Have you heard of the Russian writer Konstatin Monastyrsky, who wrote Fiber Menace? He had severe digestive problems, and whenever he went to the doctor about it he was advised to drink more water and eat more fiber. He even went vegetarian for a while (and shows you his before and after pictures after doing so, and the subsequent weight gain):

Konstantin Monastyrsky: Biography

After dramatically improving his health problems on a low carb diet, he is adamantly against fiber (can you tell? *g*), and he makes some compelling arguments to eliminate it from the diet. I'm still going through his site page by page, because there's so much information to be gleaned.

Yes, I've read his book. I didn't know about his website, though. Thanks.

[Sivodna]

Originally Posted by scorpio1980

Wow so your saying the 2% of the vegan population is right, and that 98% of the worlds population is wrong?

Argumentum ad populum.
Just pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Forget grains, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, rice, bread, past and most fruits.

Forget most fruits! Geddouttaahaay!

[emeadow]

Curious, what do folks tend to spend a month on food when leaning on the higher meat lower carb diets? I function SO much better on a lower carb, higher meat and fats regime. I have been doing some degree of this for several years, and when my carbs are under about 30-40 grams a day, I am probably at my best. (my 30 day raw veggie/fruit trial, and past attempts to include higher veggie content really has just not worked for my body type)

The one area I struggle more then anything is my food bill. I have gotten it down a bit in the last year by being more conscious of my purchases (sales, bulk, ect), but its still pretty far up there as compared to someone eating say SAD. I lean on organic or local sources, so I am not shopping for the lowest option, I try and look at the best option for my environment and my health first, and THEN look at price, which is probably what drives my bill up. I don't buy many processed items, mostly all fresh. I do better when I plan my meals out for a week or two in advance.....thats for sure.

Any tips on cutting costs? I consider food a very worthwhile investment in my budget. I would say if I pay serious attention, I average about $650-$750 a month to feed two people and 3 cats (this includes household items like personal care products, and also raw meat for 3 cats for a month, so not just food). This amount varies depending on what meat we have in the freezer, what sales I find, but thats a good estimate I think. We also do not eat out very often, we take food to work, so this covers 95-98% of food intake.

Just curious....interesting discussion running here.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by agnostic

Hm. ...

Okay.

LOL. Just do a forum search on his name, and see what comes up.

Yeah, I know. But there is a lot of (allegedly bad) saturated fat in there still. There's a new book by Uffe Ravnskov called "Saturated Fat and Cholesterol are good for you". I just had to buy it. .

Thanks for letting me know about this book! I had no idea Ravnskov had a new one out.

[c1rca]

The thing with most diets is that they all seem to be 'one size fits all', I can't function on a strict vegan diet, or a low carb diet and fall into the middle ground. Depending on the day I might eat more vegetables and fruits than meat, but on another I may forgo carbs of any kind because my body is telling me that I NEED the protein from the meat and the extra energy provided by the fat.

As for the raw vs. cooked meat thing, I've never personally tried any raw meat, but that's because you never know how long some of the stuff at the grocery store's been out for.

[Airana]

The worst thing about the modern day diet is our ingestion of grains, especially those containing gluten. Medical research has now linked an intolerance to gluten to approximately 200 diseases and/or medical conditions. Many people are unwittingly intolerant of gluten and go to their doctors when they discover they've become diabetic, or have developed asthma. Doctors are only interested in drug therapy. They will never look to your diet, except perhaps with fat ingestion in heart disease. To list just a few, gluten is linked to asthma, acne, diabetes, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's, Addison's Disease, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, edema, lymphoma, fibromyalgia, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, etc etc etc. I have known of people who were bedridden with MS, going on a gluten and dairy free diet and curing themselves of MS. As a suggestion, do a search in Google about gluten intolerance and associated medical conditions. GI affects the liver, can cause kidney disease and for some reason most doctors are either ignorant about GI or keeping it in the dark. After all, once the general population catches on, we won't need so many doctors, will we? I have cured my chronic fatigue by going gluten free. Sadly I am now 60 years of age and now know that all the medical conditions I have had all my life are a result of an undiagnosed gluten intolerance. I have changed my diet radically and am trying to progress to the Paleo Diet. I don't believe that anybody on the PD would have to eat huge amounts of meat. The human body only needs about 45 protein grams a day. It's all based on your weight. The info is on the web. I mostly eat fruit, vegetables, rice, fish, chicken and lean meats, plus a gluten free bread in small amounts. I hear you say: But that's so expensive! I would have to be on one of the lowest incomes there are, but my health is my wealth and without my health, I have nothing.

[Dreamline]

I agree re: grains, especially wheat. We will feel awfully stupid in 100 years when we realize how many of our most dreaded illnesses were due to our body's inability to metabolize wheat.

I also agree about people eating way too much protein. There may or may not be physical effects of such overindulging, that is debatable. But it's really a myth that we need so much. So much food in general.


Jennifer

[Sivodna]

Originally Posted by Airana

The worst thing about the modern day diet is our ingestion of grains, especially those containing gluten. Medical research has now linked an intolerance to gluten to approximately 200 diseases and/or medical conditions. Many people are unwittingly intolerant of gluten and go to their doctors when they discover they've become diabetic, or have developed asthma. Doctors are only interested in drug therapy. They will never look to your diet, except perhaps with fat ingestion in heart disease. To list just a few, gluten is linked to asthma, acne, diabetes, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's, Addison's Disease, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, edema, lymphoma, fibromyalgia, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, etc etc etc. I have known of people who were bedridden with MS, going on a gluten and dairy free diet and curing themselves of MS. As a suggestion, do a search in Google about gluten intolerance and associated medical conditions. GI affects the liver, can cause kidney disease and for some reason most doctors are either ignorant about GI or keeping it in the dark. After all, once the general population catches on, we won't need so many doctors, will we? I have cured my chronic fatigue by going gluten free. Sadly I am now 60 years of age and now know that all the medical conditions I have had all my life are a result of an undiagnosed gluten intolerance. I have changed my diet radically and am trying to progress to the Paleo Diet. I don't believe that anybody on the PD would have to eat huge amounts of meat. The human body only needs about 45 protein grams a day. It's all based on your weight. The info is on the web. I mostly eat fruit, vegetables, rice, fish, chicken and lean meats, plus a gluten free bread in small amounts. I hear you say: But that's so expensive! I would have to be on one of the lowest incomes there are, but my health is my wealth and without my health, I have nothing.

Hmm, that's really food for thought.
Interesting.

[Sivodna]

Originally Posted by RagsToRiches

I really like the idea of paleo - the reason I haven't already taken it up is purely expense (Nuts, Berries, Fish... very expensive)

R

I'm going to smugly throw a quote at you:

“Cheap food is an illusion. The real cost of the food is paid somewhere.” – Michael Pollan

[Dreamline]

Michael Pollan: genius.

Better food means you need less food. When your diet is jammed up with all kinds of "filler foods" like breads, pastas, corn, etc...you are basically eating A LOT to make up for less nutrient density.

When you eat incredibly healthy, nutrient dense foods, you need far less actual food.

But--and it's a big but--when I was a vegan, I had to eat all dern day to not waste away. Why? Insulin. Too many carbohydrates were basically killing me. I felt hungry. All the time.

When you eat lower carb, mod protein, mod fat, your body is getting dense nutrition also but you won't feel hungry. Sometimes I never feel a single hunger pang all week.

So you don't eat a steak. You eat part of a steak. You don't have a large chicken breast, you have half a chicken breast. It's cheaper too. But that's just a pleasant side effect.

Jennifer

[Sivodna]

"We will feel awfully stupid in 100 years when we realize how many of our most dreaded illnesses were due to our body's inability to metabolize wheat."


I'm gonna add that to my list of interesting/thought provoking quotations I've been collecting.

[Bleicke]

Low Carb, medium Protein, High Fat is the way to go.

Your body needs between .5 and 1g of protein per lbs of lean bodyweight, depending on your activity level. 1g /lbs is for EXTREME activity.

What happens to the protein not used by the body? That's right, it's metabolized into glucose.

So eating too much protein is actually as bad as eating sugar.

So keep protein to .5-1g/lbs of lean bodyweight, eat as little carbs as you can (no overdomesticated fruit) and eat lots of fat. Especially saturated animal fats. Butter, cream, lard.

You'll be surprised how full you get from fat, how CHEAP fat is and how all of your skin/hair/teeth problems go away. Not to mention your belly.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Bleicke

l. 1g /lbs is for EXTREME activity.

What happens to the protein not used by the body? That's right, it's metabolized into glucose.

Yeah, about 58%, if I remember correctly.

You'll be surprised how full you get from fat, how CHEAP fat is and how all of your skin/hair/teeth problems go away. Not to mention your belly.

No kidding!