Meat lovers and omnivores

[Amadeus]

The China Study finds that even if you don't eat a lot of meat and diary, removing the portions that you do will help your health.

Think about the corporate interests when it comes to selling meat and diary products. There are huge profits centers to selling dairy and even meat. However, do you think there is a lot of profit in selling an apple or a carrot stick? You can can't really add any "value" to these products. Fruits and vegetables are what they are. So they want to sell you cereal with loads of sugar and unnatural crap, because it is profitable for them.

[thadroe]

Originally Posted by november

And, who says ppl aren't accepting the consequences of their choices? There is the underlying assumption that if someone eats meat, he or she is somehow irresponsible. That is not something that can proven as truth, so why even worry about it?

I probably worded that poorly. My thoughts were more in the direction of knowing the consequences. I say that because many people don't understand just how much your diet impacts your health. It obviously has a HUGE impact.

As I said before, whether a person eats meat or not, they are kidding themselves if they think they can maintain good health without keeping it down to a minimum and eating mostly fruits and vegetables.

Thad

[november]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

The China Study finds that even if you don't eat a lot of meat and diary, removing the portions that you do will help your health.

Like I said, saying something will help your health if you remove it does not necessarily (and inherently) mean that it is bad.

However, do you think there is a lot of profit in selling an apple or a carrot stick? You can can't really add any "value" to these products. Fruits and vegetables are what they are.

If this were true, there wouldn't be GMOs and RoundUp Ready. The fact is that food is a profitable industry, if you can get in on the chemical side, no matter what food items you're peddling.

As I said before, whether a person eats meat or not, they are kidding themselves if they think they can maintain good health without keeping it down to a minimum and eating mostly fruits and vegetables.

The problem with statements like this is that "good health" is subjective. If you use more objective language, you might be able to convince more ppl to think of things the way you think of them.

It is difficult to put ppl down ("they are kidding themselves") and build them up (do this...it is healthier for you) at the same time. Things cancel out.

[Amadeus]

Have you even read the China study? The findings are not subjective at all? There are more mortality rates based on chardiovascular disease in countries that have higher amounts of fat. The US and England are at the top of the list. Countries that have less mortality rates based on cardiovascular disease are in Asia where they don't eat as much high fat meat. They eat a lot of fish and rice. You can't say that it is genes either because they showed that Asians have the same mortality if they live in our environment.

No, corporations do not make a gross amount of profit on whole foods like fruits and vegetables because the fixed costs are too high. However, if you can utilize eggs and diary to make "fake food" you can make a killing.

[escapee]

I would really like my old dad to remove his smoking habit (3 packs per day) because it's bad for him and the family ( as per the scientific evidence and statistic ). Why would my old dad pay for something that harms his body? i have no clue .. But i do know this , never underestimate the "force" of money and marketing in combination by the big big corporation .

One of these days , we may find ourselve eating highly addictive food as bad as nuclear device because the corporate sponsored media portrays it as healthy and cool ! ( a bit of exaggeration here )

Fortunately , my old dad is taking plenty of tea + garlic & traditional herbs daily and that sort of balance back the damage that's done .

[thadroe]

Like I said, saying something will help your health if you remove it does not necessarily (and inherently) mean that it is bad.

So would you say that about smoking? That it's not inherently bad?

Don't take that question the wrong way. I just want to get a better understanding your point of view. I haven't taken a lot of time to read and absorb the subjective reality/objective reality posts so I may be missing what you're trying to say.

Thad

[Wreck]

I eat animal carcass. I feel like I'm at an AA meeting... Heck, if God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

Seriously though, I don't see how anyone can deny the problems with eating high amounts of saturated fats. The only time I know of people can get away with it without negative side effects are if they're in ketosis. And even then, there are no long term studies of keto diets. (FYI, proponents of the Atkins/keto diets like to use the Inuits' high fat diets as examples. However, the Inuits' diet consists mostly of unsaturated fats high in Omega 3s, not the saturated fats of fowl and red meat.)

I don't think of it in terms of "meat is bad," but in terms of "excessive meat is bad." Heck, my portions are too big all around. As with everything else, temperance is a virtue.

[thadroe]

I eat animal carcass. I feel like I'm at an AA meeting... Heck, if God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

LOL....too funny!

[MartialDev]

Originally Posted by goodstyles

Huh? It doesn't concern him? Now I am intrigued...

What sort of development is being stunted by needing to ask this?

Here's the problem: if you don't have the sensitivity to feel the effects of this type of decision, then you will unknowingly undo any benefits by the actions you never thought to ask about. I hope this is clear enough; I'll address it at length on my blog, eventually.

[dorothy hanna]

Hi All,
I'm basically all over the map, anymore. I eat what I want. I even drink Coca-Cola. I quit bothering myself about it all.
I went for years,and only ate very healthy things, and I was vegan for 10 months, and I had the worst gas problem ever. I couldn't even stay in the room with myself. I do eat a gluten-free diet though, as I'm gluten intolerant, so, If it's gluten-free, I'll eat it.

[Paul Park]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

The China Study finds that even if you don't eat a lot of meat and diary, removing the portions that you do will help your health.

Think about the corporate interests when it comes to selling meat and diary products. There are huge profits centers to selling dairy and even meat. However, do you think there is a lot of profit in selling an apple or a carrot stick? You can can't really add any "value" to these products. Fruits and vegetables are what they are. So they want to sell you cereal with loads of sugar and unnatural crap, because it is profitable for them.

I was near vegan for a long time, but now I eat whole, home grown foods, including meat, as naturally grown or raised as possible (but I don't obsess about the naturally grown part). I more or less follow the diet recommended by the research of Dr. Weston Price. On the Weston Price website, there is a review of the book The China Study.

Thumbs Down Book Review: The China Study: Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, and Long-Term Health

I certainly have not done the research necessary to confirm or negate the conclusions of The China Study or of the review, but this review shows me that the conclusions made in the book may not be as cut and dried as they would appear.

[Andy]

Alright, this thread has inspired me. Starting today I'm going to go meat-less for a week, maybe two weeks and see how it goes from there. Does skim milk count? I'll be keeping that in.

[Dharma]

I'm inspired to have a bacon sandwich!

[escapee]

Andy , you can also get more inspiration by reading the story of a Vegan trible, do consider B12 supplement should you decide to go for long term

The vegan tribe

We reached the ancient juniper trees by noon and hugged the trees to soak in their energy. After spending several hours in this picturesque place, it was time to visit some of the elderly Aryans. We shared a meal that consisted of jo (barley) roti baked in an earthern oven, lettuce leaves, roasted potato, spring onion, boiled cauliflower and wild mint. Women cooked in an open hearth, burning fallen twig collected from the trees in their courtyard. There is a strict taboo against tree felling. The simple meal was fresh and extremely tasty. The following week the trek continued into the villages of Baldes, Samit, Garkun, Darchik and Hanu. The few thousand Brok-pa Aryans have over 5,000 years lived in these hostile terrain at 15,000 ft altitude, subsisting on a vegan diet.

Music and dance are a way of life for them. Both men and women wear colourful costume, decorating their hair with flowers, and are full of joi de vivre. They live in harmony with nature, and are cheerful and stress-free despite living in small rock shelters. They trek long distances.

Almond, apricot and walnut form part of the diet along with endless cups of black tea fortified with barley flour.

The weather in September is pleasantly cold, though temperatures in January can plummet to -20 degrees Celsius. There are an unusually large number of Aryans above 70 years. Many are active even at 90.

Their striking features include blue eyes, aristocratic noses, fair complexion and flawless skin. They appear ethnically distinct from Ladakhis or Kashmiris. They do not marry outsiders and restrict their contact with the outside world, seemingly happy in their isolated existence. Married women braid their hair, which gives them a resemblance to Greeks. One of the women photographed at Dah could have easily been mistaken for a German tourist. She was blonde and had high cheekbones, rotund face and unmistakable German features.

[andrew]

I'm not one to bring up a 4 year old thread...

But I just wanted to say that for the past 3 years or so I've been a vegetarian... well, pescetarian. I do eat seafood, but no more steak and A1 sauce! Whoops...

I just came across this old post of mine, and it's amazing to see how much I've grown, matured, and changed in the past 4 years. I'm a helluva lot healthier now than I was before, that's for sure. I think I attribute it to Steve's 30 day raw trial - I did my own 30 day trial for vegetarian, and adjusted accordingly.

I do have to say though, I'm getting cravings for meat lately, I think it's my body telling my I'm no getting some nutrients that I should be. My biggest learning is to listen to your body, not all things are right for everyone, and go as natural as possible, even if it's animal products - whatever nature intended.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Adam

I am very against processed food, especially high-starch and highly refined flour based foods, such as baked potatoes

Baked potatoes aren't processed food

Edit: Ha! I didn't notice it was a 4-year-old thread!

[SheldonCooper]

Originally Posted by andrew

Here's a thread for us that like the best of both worlds.

There's no way I could be a vegitarian. There's nothing better than a nice juicy steak and A1 sauce.

Okay, so what?

I hear people saying it's all bad etc, but what about the postives? I mean, will staying an omnivore REALLY stunt my development or cause me to be a less healthy person? All these threads about veagen etc, nothing on meat and veg. I mean, I think it's healthier eatting meat and natural foods, than to be a vegitarian and drink soda and junk food.

Nothing against those who are, but don't come in here trying to convert.

Not at all.

In fact, many vegetarians eventually switch back to ommivoreness.

Something to avoid is diets that have too much meat, but getting rid of animal products 100% has really not proven to be beneficial in fact, it may be the total opposite.

If you do not have any allergies preventing you from eating all sorts of food, you should be thankful of such gift and enjoy your life and try a lot of variety, always combine animal with vegetal products as it improves the taste of both. Also try insects and brains and all sort of stuff, who knows maybe you'll like it. Every 5, 7 or X days, have a meal that has no meat as it is fun every once in a while.

Life is too long to spend it eating only the same 10 dishes for the rest of it. I mean, there are hundreds of countries in the world and each has its own set of different recipes, there are a lot, and I mean millions of combinations possible.

Edit:

Edit: Ha! I didn't notice it was a 4-year-old thread!

Edit: The China Study is dubious at best. Way too much bias and bad research.
www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=385
www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6092

[lookcloser]

I was born and brought up a vegetarian so its no big deal for me to not eat meat. I am even repulsed by it because of how I was brought up, but giving up dairy products? IMPOSSIBLE...It seems that way at least.
Because in India we don't get dairy substitutes very easy and I don't think I can go about life without ice creams!

I am lookcloser and I LOVE milk products!

[lookcloser]

Originally Posted by andrew

I'm not one to bring up a 4 year old thread...

But I just wanted to say that for the past 3 years or so I've been a vegetarian... well, pescetarian. I do eat seafood, but no more steak and A1 sauce! Whoops...

I just came across this old post of mine, and it's amazing to see how much I've grown, matured, and changed in the past 4 years. I'm a helluva lot healthier now than I was before, that's for sure. I think I attribute it to Steve's 30 day raw trial - I did my own 30 day trial for vegetarian, and adjusted accordingly.

I do have to say though, I'm getting cravings for meat lately, I think it's my body telling my I'm no getting some nutrients that I should be. My biggest learning is to listen to your body, not all things are right for everyone, and go as natural as possible, even if it's animal products - whatever nature intended.

Wow that's awesome! That gives me a lot encouragement! So, thank you!
Hope you keep making awesome progress like this dude.

[SheldonCooper]

But I just wanted to say that for the past 3 years or so I've been a vegetarian... well, pescetarian. I do eat seafood, but no more steak and A1 sauce! Whoops.

If you eat seafood, please for the love of god make sure to call yourself a pescetarian and not a vegetarian. Your diet is much healthy than most meat eaters' and radical vegans , so when you show your health experience about your diet it would not be accurate to promote vegetarianism, what you do and makes you healthy is pescetarianism.