31 Day Challenge-- No Food, Just Water-- Fasting

[ginkgo]

Apparently I did something unconsciously without knowing about it. I started this fast on the same exact day that I started my 22 day fast 3 years ago. That is very strange indeed! I am on my 20th day and in the evening, it will be 3 weeks.

Please note that when I started fasting years ago, due to a very impure diet I would have terrible cleansing symptoms while fasting. It would feel like I was being poisoned. When I was in elementary school, I would eat lunch in a deli restaurant and would get either a cheese steak sandwich, a cheeseburger or a Texas Tommy. The latter is a hot dog with cheese and bacon.

[greentara]

Originally Posted by Smartass

Oh and I heard it from my father who had known or saw someone on tv..I'm not really sure..that had done alot of fasting in life and died at the age of 50 something. My father said the fasting exhausted his heart.

I guess it's my daddy's word against your doctor huh?
Thank you for updating my facts here..

You 'heard' huh? And he saw it on the TV. Yet this lady has shown all this proven research and you still chose to judge and question her? Get some information that explains factual stories. Do you know how many people die from things that are unrelated to their current circumstances? If a man is shot in the head and he has a heart attack 2 minutes before that - unrelated. What did he die from?

It really is a shame how many ppeople are more interested in spending time posting sabotaging, uneducated, stupid posts than actually going and reading, facts, (documented trails - see notes from shelton).

The irony is - so many people here telling her to do this and that, that she is risking this and that, when really - YOU ARE WRONG and you don't know what you are talking about. Get information, and then stop and think for a moment before you pass your opinion to another. Some acts of selfless-ness starts with the ego. Think about your motives before you start shooting your mouth off. And I am not just speaking to the person I quoted either.

[ginkgo]

I have been to too busy writing on Greentara's 40 fast, to put much on this thread. My body never did this well on a fast before. The same with my mental outlook. Many people are afraid of fasting and have all sorts of strange ideas about it.

It is because people who do not know about fasting, imagine the worst. FEAR is False Expectations Appearing Real.

[Smartass]

Originally Posted by greentara

You 'heard' huh? And he saw it on the TV. Yet this lady has shown all this proven research and you still chose to judge and question her? Get some information that explains factual stories. Do you know how many people die from things that are unrelated to their current circumstances? If a man is shot in the head and he has a heart attack 2 minutes before that - unrelated. What did he die from?

It really is a shame how many ppeople are more interested in spending time posting sabotaging, uneducated, stupid posts than actually going and reading, facts, (documented trails - see notes from shelton).

The irony is - so many people here telling her to do this and that, that she is risking this and that, when really - YOU ARE WRONG and you don't know what you are talking about. Get information, and then stop and think for a moment before you pass your opinion to another. Some acts of selfless-ness starts with the ego. Think about your motives before you start shooting your mouth off. And I am not just speaking to the person I quoted either.

Yeah maybe you misinterpreted my post. When I said:

I guess it's my daddy's word against your doctor huh?
Thank you for updating my facts here..

I meant that Ginkgo convinced me of his point. I posted it without giving it much thought because I was curious about what other people think about it. And I never tried to tell her to do anything. After reading your recent thread on fasting. I didn't expect a post like that from you. For a yoga practitioner, you are very emotionally unstable.

Seriously, you have an attitude problem. Arrogant wanker.

I'm sorry for all this on your thread ginkgo.

[ginkgo]

It is the 24th day of my fast and I never did a fast this long (longest 22 days) and never did this well on a fast. Many years ago I did an 11 day fast and during it I was obsessed with food and reading all the menus of local restaurants and was planning to eat at all of them.

So during fast I would be obsessed with food even though when I am not fasting I put very little energy into eating. But I could care less about food now. I am saving at least $12 a day from fasting.

So I saw that Kinkos office supply store has a 19" flat LCD monitor for $95. Since I make my living from the internet, I will buy it and replace my smaller CRT monitor. That thing is so bulky that the back of it (the rear end) is longer than the size of screen. So that is a just one benefit of my fast-- the monitor. And I will be able to enjoy this benefit for many years.

Do monitors ever burn out (not including defects)? I guess I will never know since this bulky CRT monitor will be history even though it works perfectly. Before the fast I ate at a Chinese vegetarian restaurant where all the meat is fake. With tip, it cost me $15 for that one meal.

But it was great. It is curry hot pot and there is a lot of sauce that this stuff sits in so no need to worry about a lack of sauce. It contains fried fake duck, fake pork, cooked potatoes cut into the shape of french fries but they are not fried, bean curd, tofu sticks, Chinese cabbage, eggplant, string beans and walnuts. But their curry sauce makes it taste incredible. I used to eat it every week for many years.

[ginkgo]

I am on the 26th day of my fast. I went to buy that monitor today and there were no more in stock. So I bought the floor model for $89, but they put the wrong power cord in the box. So I have to go back tomorrow and get the right one. Of course to be on the safe side I could have checked.

If I buy a floor model again I will check it. The guy went in the back to see if he could give me a better deal than $89 but he said that it was already under cost. They sold many at $130 and it was on sale for $30 less.

I think that I save more money than I first thought since I buy some very expensive healthy foods. A health food store sells 2 ounces of dried noni fruit for $15.

[ginkgo]

I still have a week left on my fast and my weight is down to 95 pounds. I decided that I should not let it go below 90 pounds. So I might need to break my fast early. Some people mentioned true hunger and how that is time to break a fast. But another sign to break the fast is if the coating on the tongue clears. Ideally they happen together but sometimes one comes before the other.

True hunger with coating still there means that the person needs food but still has toxins left. A tongue clearing without true hunger means the body has no more toxins to clean out, but it can still go without food safely.

[Kasha]

Gingko congratulations, and best of luck on your fasting journey.

In the last two weeks I did 2 water fasts of 3 and 2 days respectively. I'm currently preparing for my next water fast to commence tonight, after a cleansing meal of lettuce, tomato, cucumber and parsley.

I'm not sure how long I'll do this next fast for. I found that the short fasts had me feeling quite sad after breaking them, as if I wanted to go longer but stopped because of fear. I'll research now on symptoms of a potassium imbalance. I did a pre-fast diet this week very high in vegetables, tahini and almonds - so I think my level of minerals are high and will carry me through the fast for at least 10 days. We'll see.

Again, best of luck :-)

[c1rca]

31 days is an impressive fast for sure, I doubt I could go without food that long in my life ever- I do have a question though, if I were to say, fast for a single (7 day) week, what are the chances that I would have any negative effects? The only thing I worry about is that I have a horrible and unbalanced diet and pretty much always have, and I'm also on a statin for my high cholesterol- I don't know how a fast would affect any of that.

Cheers, if you make the last week, awesome, and if you break the fast before that, still awesome!

Oh cool, you're from Philadelphia- I'm from Glen Mills, a suburb about 17 minutes away.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by c1rca

31 days is an impressive fast for sure, I doubt I could go without food that long in my life ever- I do have a question though, if I were to say, fast for a single (7 day) week, what are the chances that I would have any negative effects? The only thing I worry about is that I have a horrible and unbalanced diet and pretty much always have, and I'm also on a statin for my high cholesterol- I don't know how a fast would affect any of that.

Cheers, if you make the last week, awesome, and if you break the fast before that, still awesome!

Oh cool, you're from Philadelphia- I'm from Glen Mills, a suburb about 17 minutes away.

I know where Glen Mills is. It is near Media. Thanks for the support. Sorry, you are not supposed to fast if you are on any medications, unless a doctor is supervising your fast. The worse your diet, the more chances like feeling that you are sick or poisoned while fasting. I went through a lot of that. Many times I had to break the fast since the cleansing symptoms were so strong.

If you can stop taking the medication, then you can fast. One MD has lots and lots of bad things to say about statin drugs. Even though they lower the numbers, they do not do a thing for your cardiovascular health. Then they have lots of negative effects. If you were to murder your doctor and I were on the jury at your trial, I would find you not guilty. You can use a natural supplement called red rice yeast and it works as good and is much cheaper.

The there are herbs that lower cholesterol naturally with no side effects. They actually clean the arteries. Do a search for the red rice yeast and see what you find.

Drug dealers would not exist if people did not want drugs. That is what they say. So you go to the doctor and say "Look I know I need to eat much healthier than I do and need to exercise more to live a long and healthy life. But I do not feel like doing it. So give me a drug so I can eat the worst foods possible for my arteries like lots of bacon (fried and very fatty) and not exercise and still be healthy."

But it does not really work. A pill cannot replace a good diet and exercise. I was in a store and the owner was frying up bacon. They were 95 pure fat. I said "look at that piece there. It is all fat and no lean meat." She said that there is a tiny piece of lean meat in the center that I cannot see from several feet away!

Now baked and broiled potatoes are good for you. But french fries are deep fried and and are very unhealthy for you. So bacon alone is bad for you, but then it is fried and it makes it horrible for your arteries even though it tastes great.

So try to improve your diet. When someone is fasting under Joel Fuhrman, M.D. for cardiovascular problems he keeps telling them that they will need to go on a vegan diet after the fast. My site below about losing tells many easy ways to improve health like drinking green tea instead of coffee, water or soft drinks and many other easy things.

Green or white tea helps helps cardiovascular health. A side effect is that it protects you against cancer. I drink green and white tea. Trader Joes has something even better. It is white tea with pomegranate, hibiscus and lemon grass. All organic. They call it "antioxidant powerhouse."

Also see how berries are the best foods for cardiovascular health and read how they are proven to lower cholesterol on link below. Unlike drugs, they are good for your health. They are in season now.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Kasha

Gingko congratulations, and best of luck on your fasting journey.

In the last two weeks I did 2 water fasts of 3 and 2 days respectively. I'm currently preparing for my next water fast to commence tonight, after a cleansing meal of lettuce, tomato, cucumber and parsley.

I'm not sure how long I'll do this next fast for. I found that the short fasts had me feeling quite sad after breaking them, as if I wanted to go longer but stopped because of fear. I'll research now on symptoms of a potassium imbalance. I did a pre-fast diet this week very high in vegetables, tahini and almonds - so I think my level of minerals are high and will carry me through the fast for at least 10 days. We'll see.

Again, best of luck :-)

I have done lots and lots of fasts for only a few days. Patricia Bragg fasts one day every week and 3 days at the beginning of every month.

I bought my 19 inch LCD flat screen monitor today. It makes a huge difference. I think the other one was making me blind with the tiny print. My fast saved me more than enough to get it. Since there were none in stock I bought the floor model for $85, but also paid $14 for a 2 year warranty since it was a floor model. It was already on sale at $95 but many bought it when it was selling for $130.

[c1rca]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I know where Glen Mills is. It is near Media. Thanks for the support. Sorry, you are not supposed to fast if you are on any medications, unless a doctor is supervising your fast. The worse your diet, the more chances like feeling that you are sick or poisoned while fasting. I went through a lot of that. Many times I had to break the fast since the cleansing symptoms were so strong.

Sounds... Fun, but still probably good for you in the long run... Yeah. I didn't want to go on the statin anyway, but because I didn't lose a certain number of points of LDL cholesterol in 2 weeks (seems short doesnt it?) He told me it was 'in my best interest'.

If you can stop taking the medication, then you can fast. One MD has lots and lots of bad things to say about statin drugs. Even though they lower the numbers, they do not do a thing for your cardiovascular health. Then they have lots of negative effects. If you were to murder your doctor and I were on the jury at your trial, I would find you not guilty. You can use a natural supplement called red rice yeast and it works as good and is much cheaper.

I've heard of red rice yeast, never knew what it did though. as for the statin i've never had more aches since I started taking it and it has somewhat messed with my sleep.

The there are herbs that lower cholesterol naturally with no side effects. They actually clean the arteries. Do a search for the red rice yeast and see what you find.

Drug dealers would not exist if people did not want drugs. That is what they say. So you go to the doctor and say "Look I know I need to eat much healthier than I do and need to exercise more to live a long and healthy life. But I do not feel like doing it. So give me a drug so I can eat the worst foods possible for my arteries like lots of bacon (fried and very fatty) and not exercise and still be healthy."

But it does not really work. A pill cannot replace a good diet and exercise. I was in a store and the owner was frying up bacon. They were 95 pure fat. I said "look at that piece there. It is all fat and no lean meat." She said that there is a tiny piece of lean meat in the center that I cannot see from several feet away!

Now baked and broiled potatoes are good for you. But french fries are deep fried and and are very unhealthy for you. So bacon alone is bad for you, but then it is fried and it makes it horrible for your arteries even though it tastes great.

So try to improve your diet. When someone is fasting under Joel Fuhrman, M.D. for cardiovascular problems he keeps telling them that they will need to go on a vegan diet after the fast. My site below about losing tells many easy ways to improve health like drinking green tea instead of coffee, water or soft drinks and many other easy things.

Exactly, seeing as I'm currently following a vegetarian diet (after sitting eating a bag of beef jerky, reading the back label and something about post mortum stuff. among other things), I don't think that I need the statin but rather that the doc was rather trigger happy in prescribing it. I'm an avid fan of green and white teas.

Green or white tea helps helps cardiovascular health. A side effect is that it protects you against cancer. I drink green and white tea. Trader Joes has something even better. It is white tea with pomegranate, hibiscus and lemon grass. All organic. They call it "antioxidant powerhouse."

Also see how berries are the best foods for cardiovascular health and read how they are proven to lower cholesterol on link below. Unlike drugs, they are good for your health. They are in season now.

I suppose I'll be going to trader joes than and stocking up on delicious berries!

[I PLAY COMPUTER GAMES]

Hmm I've done a couple 2-3 day fasts before. Don't think I ever did try fasting to completion. This thread definately makes me wanna try it some time, or atleast go for something longer. Aside from not getting to eat, fasting always felt like a much needed vacation from my normal life, in some weird way

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by c1rca

Sounds... Fun, but still probably good for you in the long run... Yeah. I didn't want to go on the statin anyway, but because I didn't lose a certain number of points of LDL cholesterol in 2 weeks (seems short doesnt it?) He told me it was 'in my best interest'.

I don't think that I need the statin but rather that the doc was rather trigger happy in prescribing it.

See this site: statin drugs. Here are some excerpts from it: "Hypercholesterolemia is the health issue of the 21st century. It is actually an invented disease, a "problem" that emerged when health professionals learned how to measure cholesterol levels in the blood."

"Doctors who treat this new disease must first convince their patients that they are sick and need to take one or more expensive drugs for the rest of their lives, drugs that require regular checkups and blood tests."

"The most common side effect [of Statin drugs] is muscle pain and weakness, a condition called rhabdomyolysis, most likely due to the depletion of Co-Q10, a nutrient that supports muscle function."

"The damage is often irreversible. People who take large doses for a long time may be left with permanent nerve damage, even after they stop taking the drug."

"We are currently in the midst of a congestive heart failure epidemic in the United States--while the incidence of heart attack has declined slightly, an increase in the number heart failure cases has outpaced these gains. Deaths attributed to heart failure more than doubled from 1989 to 1997.13 (Statins were first given pre-market approval in 1987.) Interference with production of Co-Q10 by statin drugs is the most likely explanation. The heart is a muscle and it cannot work when deprived of Co-Q10."

"Statin drugs are very expensive--a course of statins for a year costs between $900 and $1400. They constitute the mostly widely sold pharmaceutical drug, accounting for 6.5 percent of market share and 12.5 billion dollars in revenue for the industry. Your insurance company may pay most of that cost, but consumers always ultimately pay with higher insurance premiums. Payment for statin drugs poses a huge burden for Medicare, so much so that funds may not be available for truly lifesaving medical measures."

[ginkgo]

So this is 28 days of fasting and that is 4 weeks. I could explain why I feel that this long fast has handled the cause of my high blood pressure but it is kind of complex and talks about intermittant claudication which is narrowed arteries in the legs that can cause excruciating pain while walking.

But this is not a medical forum. Due to a 30 and 40 day fast, I will now stress on my wepage that people do a long fast under professional supervision. On the 30 day fast, the guy was not drinking water for 18 hours and would drink over a gallon of water a day. The woman on the 40 day fast is consuming salt. All of the above are dangerous practices during a fast. Fasting has never been this easy for me before so my body must be getting better at it.

[Amandaaa]

gingko- Just wanted to let you know that I clicked on two of the links in your sig, and neither of them would work for me! It just said: "No available server to handle this request."



Not sure if that happens for everyone...but I just wanted to give you a head's up.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Amandaaa

gingko- Just wanted to let you know that I clicked on two of the links in your sig, and neither of them would work for me! It just said: "No available server to handle this request."



Not sure if that happens for everyone...but I just wanted to give you a head's up.

Thanks for telling me. I used to have a service that would check on the server that my website is on but lost that service when my email provider went under. This server has many thousands of clients and sometimes they are over loaded. Try it again.

During those times I get the same thing but try it again and then get thru and then again do not get to it.

In fact I just heard that Twitter was down for 4 hours today and their 6 million users did not like it.

[ginkgo]

Yesterday I completed 31 days and broke my fast with watermelon and oranges like suggested. It is hard to tell since it was gradual but I think that I look 10 years younger. That is what I estimated but I feel 15 years younger.

I saved much more money than I expected but always underestimate how much I will spend on food. When gas prices were high, they raised the cost of food. But when gas prices went down, they did not lower the cost of food.

I do not have time for eating. I got a lot done while on that fasting. Someone earlier was asking about a coated tongue. That is the only way I know of telling that your body is in a fasting mode. Everyone should look at their tongue daily to see how it is normally. Then make sure to look at it during a fast or juice fast.

How come people on the 40 day and 30 day fast do not mention that they are saving money and time? How come they do not look at their tongue or mention. Also normally I have a lot of testosterone with a strong sex drive. After about a week of fasting, it disappears and I become gender neutral temporarily since my body is using that energy to reverse my aging process. Peace!

[Dhaval Raja]

Congrats!!! It's an incredible achievement. I also finished an 8 day fast recently and it was fun. I would go for a 31 day fast someday. Shouldn't the goverment investing millions for research on such topics?
Try solar gazing now

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Dhaval Raja

Congrats!!! It's an incredible achievement. I also finished an 8 day fast recently and it was fun. I would go for a 31 day fast someday. Shouldn't the goverment investing millions for research on such topics?
Try solar gazing now

I read about solar gazing. I live in the 6th biggest city in America. Don't you have to be somewhere where you can see the sun at its lowest point? This part of the country is the opposite of the mid-west with all their plains. Around here there are lots of high trees.

Now one and half hours away they have the beach. There you can see the sun at its lowest point by looking at the ocean if that is where it is at sunrise or sunset. The government is controlled by politicians. The governor of Illinois try to sell a Senate seat. The governor of NY resigned for paying hookers to have sex with him, which is legal in Nevada and the governor of NJ resigned for being gay. That is the ones that we know of. There are only 50 governors in America. I read what Governor Palin said but still have no idea why she resigned.

[WaterFasting]

hey there, im 20, weighed 189.5Lbs monday morning, 5' 10" and ate my last meal on sunday night, it is my 3rd day of water fasting, i havent taken any enema's, or dranken anything but bottled water,

i hear you should take enemas and you shouldn't, i heard you should add salt to your water, adn you shouldnt, i hear you should replenish your ions in your body, and you shouldnt lol.

i want to do this for a minimum of 21 days, im looking to loose all the fat i have 20-30lbs? and keep it off, by dramatically changing my diet, exercising regularly afterwards, and ending it properly!

im just wondering when you hit day 22? if you had Done Anything but drink bottle water?? i mean anything .

i also had my blood pressure tested today for free in a pharmacy.


est 1
systolic = 130
diastolic= 072
pulse= 074

test 2 1 min later?

systolic = 143
diastolic= 073
pulse= 075


test 3 5 mins sitting peacefully
systolic = 134
diastolic= 066
pulse= 080

i dont understand my inconsistancy of my tests? lol


any answers or help you provide will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Brandon.

[ginkgo]

Go Phillies!

Welcome to this forum. It looked liked you jumped right in. The inconsistency with the BP tests is normal. Compared to weight the BP tests are approximate. Now if you took your weight 3 times in a row with different numbers then that is a problem. It would violate the laws of physics.

I read Dr Shelton's book on fasting and he was the expert of his time with tens of thousands of fasts, he did. He fasted Dr Furman M.D. who is now the fasting expert of this time with tens of thousands of fasts, he has done. I read his book on fasting and others.

Of course any drunk can post info on a forum and then people listen to them. See this webpage: Amazon.com: Fasting and Eating for Health: A Medical Doctor's Program for Conquering Disease (9780312187194): Joel Fuhrman, Neal D. Barnard: Books

It has 5 different MDs with testimonials on this fasting book by Fuhrman. So this information comes from that book and it is the same as Dr Cott's (MD) book on fasting (see below). Here is my page on fasting. A water fast means pure water and nothing else. Bottled water is water in a bottle. You should be using distilled or R/O water not spring water. The former are pure water. The site above has a link to a page all about pure water so read that.

Don't add anything to your water. A pinch of something will not hurt you but Dr Fuhrnan would kick you out of his fasting center if you want to do that nonsense. Many crazy people try to fast and he does not want them. He is not a psychiatrist like Dr Cott is (see webpage).

They do not do enemas but they will not hurt you. So on the above fast I did not take an enema but after 4 days of fasting I could feel this stuff in there and I wanted to get it out so I took a few enemas in a row to get it out. That was all I needed with enemas.

So again a water fast means pure water (not spring water with minerals in it) and nothing else. An enema is up to you. Some say that enemas help the cleansing of the body, but the rest the colon gets during a fast is better than anything.

You will be saving lots of money on food by just drinking pure water. So invest $10 in yourself and buy Fuhrman's book on Fasting. He is on youtube with an introduction by Dr Oz who has his own TV show now after being on Oprah many times.

While waiting for it you can see my webpage on fasting that is free. Dr Shelton did tens of thousands of fasts but on the first 6,000 he gave evryone an enema. It did not hurt anyone but he learned that they were not needed. They are a 'luxury' but can be messy.

Also I do not mind giving one to myself if I need it but I do not want to do it on others which he was doing with those people. Here is something I figured out. It is not in any books or anywhere on the internet. The colon is always contracting (peristalsis) just like the heart. That is common medical knowledge. During the water fast, it stops contracting for days and gets a complete rest and a total vacation. There is no way to do that with the heart.

On this forum you can see 2 [look it up] people who announced their 40 day fasts. They both did that nonsense of adding stuff to their water fasts. Both of them abandoned their threads of a 40 day fast after several days and were never heard from again. Crazy people should not fast unless under expert care. Since you asked about putting salt into the water and want to lose weight see my thread about the math of salt making you fat. Salt is biblical. In Passion of the Christ, you can see them putting the salts into the cuts (wounds) of Jesus to make the pain much worse. Some health experts would say that they should have used sea salt and then it would not make the pain worse. Sea salt is at least 96% salt.

[MightySunTzu]

Greetings Ginkgo,

Very fine thread here with a lot of good information. As one example among several, I knew that fasting was great for making a permanant impact on high blood pressure, but i didn't know the specifics behind it.

I didn't see this thread when it emerged, but was looking back on peoples' experiences in anticipation of my next fast, so i didn't read it until now.

... But onto a different issue. I'm not sure if you were knowingly misrepresenting what i said... twice in your thread and once again in greentara's 40 day fast thread... or if you just read both my initial post and my clarification post and completely discombobulated in your brain what it clearly states. but this:

Originally Posted by ginkgo

One guy posted his 30 day fast. He would go without water for 18 hours no matter how thirsty he was and would drink over a gallon of water a day... If the guy above (MightySunTzu)...

... is completely untrue in two major areas as my own thread will attest: Beautiful Fast (posts 25 thru 29).

However, i am happy to report that you got the 18 hour figure right .

What i actually said was that i "dry-fasted" comfortably for 18-20 hours each day and then drank only to thirst in the 4-6 hour window that remained. Never did i drink over a gallon of water in a day, nor did i say any such thing. Rather, my thirst had consistently called for only 6-8 cups each day, an amount that would have been even less had i not been briskly walking 2 hours per day. Nevertheless, even during the 18-20 hours of abstinence, i was not thirsty and was thus "drinking only to thirst" even then.

The only one-time exception to this was when i experimentally dry fasted for a total of 40 hours. I say experimentally because i was exploring unchartered territory and once i felt thirst, i didn't know if i was going to reach a point where it was going to cease. So, comfortable with the research i had done that i wasn't going to harm myself, (which i seemingly didn't having emerged from this fast feeling sensationally good), i was feeling my way through it, willing to endure moderate but not extreme discomfort.

In the first 20 hours i had no thirst (and thus "drank only to thirst" within this period), but in the 2nd 20 hours the feeling of thirst came and persisted. After this experiment, i decided to definately drink when thirsty which brought me back to the 18-20 hours of un-thirsty dry-fasting each day.

If you have issue with unthirsty dry-fasting (which to me is the practical application of "drinking only to thirst"), that's great, and we can engage in friendly debate over it... but i would prefer that you stick to what i actually said when arguing against it.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by MightySunTzu

Greetings Ginkgo,

Very fine thread here with a lot of good information. As one example among several, I knew that fasting was great for making a permanant impact on high blood pressure, but i didn't know the specifics behind it.

I didn't see this thread when it emerged, but was looking back on peoples' experiences in anticipation of my next fast, so i didn't read it until now.

... But onto a different issue. I'm not sure if you were knowingly misrepresenting what i said... twice in your thread and once again in greentara's 40 day fast thread... or if you just read both my initial post and my clarification post and completely discombobulated in your brain what it clearly states. but this:



... is completely untrue in two major areas as my own thread will attest: Beautiful Fast (posts 25 thru 29).

However, i am happy to report that you got the 18 hour figure right .

What i actually said was that i "dry-fasted" comfortably for 18-20 hours each day and then drank only to thirst in the 4-6 hour window that remained. Never did i drink over a gallon of water in a day, nor did i say any such thing. Rather, my thirst had consistently called for only 6-8 cups each day, an amount that would have been even less had i not been briskly walking 2 hours per day. Nevertheless, even during the 18-20 hours of abstinence, i was not thirsty and was thus "drinking only to thirst" even then.

The only one-time exception to this was when i experimentally dry fasted for a total of 40 hours. I say experimentally because i was exploring unchartered territory and once i felt thirst, i didn't know if i was going to reach a point where it was going to cease. So, comfortable with the research i had done that i wasn't going to harm myself, (which i seemingly didn't having emerged from this fast feeling sensationally good), i was feeling my way through it, willing to endure moderate but not extreme discomfort.

In the first 20 hours i had no thirst (and thus "drank only to thirst" within this period), but in the 2nd 20 hours the feeling of thirst came and persisted. After this experiment, i decided to definately drink when thirsty which brought me back to the 18-20 hours of un-thirsty dry-fasting each day.

If you have issue with unthirsty dry-fasting (which to me is the practical application of "drinking only to thirst"), that's great, and we can engage in friendly debate over it... but i would prefer that you stick to what i actually said when arguing against it.

If you drank only when thirsty, then that is what all people are supposed to do whether they are fasting or not, just like the animals. There is no need to mention 18 hours in a row, unless you were trying to prove something. For example today I urinated when I needed to. But that is what everyone does. I do not count the hours between urinating and say that I did not urinate for 6 hours since I did not need to. Why would I say that. In fact during most of a fast you are dry fasting.

You do not time it and say I dry fasted for 4 hours and then drank water and dry fasted for 3 hours and drank water, then dry fasted for 2 hours etc. It sounds to me that you were trying to prove something. I guess that you are familiar with how Muslims do not drink anything during their fast. I think that I remember this correctly-- you are a Christian. Jesus was called the "Prince of Peace." Sun Tzu is the author of the book, The Art of War. You said "discombobulated in your brain." I guess that this is your way of saying that I made one mistake with the gallon of water daily.

You wrote Post #25--"I have read good things about "dry fasting", that it actually allows us to cleanse at an even faster rate than water fasting." Do you have a link or quote about this. Was it from Dr Shelton or a Muslim?

Was it that lady on the 40 day fast that said that she was drinking over a gallon of water a day? You said "What i have been doing in the past 3 days is drinking to thirst within a 4 hour window including the period of what has become usually 2 hours of morning exercise..." Doesn't this mean that the rest of the day you were not drinking to thirst?

You said "I actually "dry fasted" (no water) for about 18-20 hours per day for 3 days then launched into a 40 hour dry fast which was very difficult for me. 20 hours seems to be what my body is happy with and I can do this comfortably, with only minor feelings of thirst in this time." Above you said "In the first 20 hours i had no thirst." So this is a contradiction of what you said above. Drinking when you are thirsty is different than denyng yourself water when you are a little thirsty.

If you are suggesting that people dry fast, how about listing reasons and sources. On your next fast, do you intend to do more dry fasting for 20 hours. Who said that animals do not drink when fasting. Dr Shelton said they drink when they need it. During the fast you definitely need less water then when you are eating.

You said "However, in the 40 hour "fast within a fast", i was pretty thirsty the entire 2nd half." After this you said you took 2 days to rehydrate. So it sounds like you got dehydrated. Do you think that your dry fasting, may have caused you to have true hunger before your body was finished cleansing.

Here is what Dr Shelton says on page 298 of The Science and Fine Art of Fasting (First edition 1934, Second printing 1993)-- under "Water Drinking During the Fast"-- "Drink when thirsty. Do not drink when not thirsty." Note that recently they said on the news that they do not know who originally said to drink 8- 10 glasses of water a day but doctors found that you should drink when thirsty.

Page 299 "Starving dogs usually drink but little, as if warned by instinct not to drink more than they have to." "That dogs that are given no water while they fast die sooner than those who get moderate amounts [not huge amounts] of water, should come as no surprise." This section on drinking water covers 5 pages. He likes to tell about what other doctors in the past favored.

This is good that this is out in the open for people wondering about drinking water during the fast. So I am agreeing with Dr Shelton-- drink when thirsty. What is your current view on drinking water while fasting?

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Amandaaa

gingko- Just wanted to let you know that I clicked on two of the links in your sig, and neither of them would work for me! It just said: "No available server to handle this request."



Not sure if that happens for everyone...but I just wanted to give you a head's up.

It is good to check back at another time since all servers have problem sometimes like on this forum, Yahoo and Twitter. Sometimes I get that and try again immediatly and then get through. The use of the internet is constanly increasing.

[MightySunTzu]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

You do not time it and say I dry fasted for 4 hours and then drank water and dry fasted for 3 hours and drank water, then dry fasted for 2 hours etc. It sounds to me that you were trying to prove something.

I know you want to believe that i was trying to prove something, when in fact i was wanting only to drink when actually thirsty. If i felt the tiniest hint of thirst and couldn't distinguish whether it was emotional or physical, i would let it go until the thirst was more pronounced and consistent than the slightest hint. The tiniest hints of thirst would always go away on their own demonstrating that they were not true thirst which will persist until water is taken. Sometimes this would arise as early as 18 hours, other times it was 20. Perhaps where we are having a hard time joining hands on this and singing "we are the world" together is our idea of what actual thirst is.

I can not emphasise enough how comfortable it was for me to dry fast for 18-20 hours each day. It was not something i viewed as a great accomplishment of any kind. It was no amazing feat of iron will. If i proved anything to myself it is that i can do something that is exceedingly easy. Last time i checked, they weren't passing out trophies for that.

What needs to be understood here is that we become substantially less thirsty in a fast than we do while eating. For somebody to stop eating abruptly and go 18 hours without food or water would be very difficult. I would say that the Muslim way of having no food or water from sunrise to sunset during the month of Ramaddan would be pretty tough. This is because they eat and drink during the other hours and do not settle comfortably into a water fast. Once we have been fasting for a certain number of days, many internal transitions have taken place which makes this a very comfortable thing to do, at least it was for me. It is not unlike how easy it becomes to resist food. In contrast to the Muslim daily fast, after a few days of continual fasting, resisting water from sunrise to sunset would become very comfortable and easy, especially if the faster drank before sunrise. .

Originally Posted by ginkgo

You said "discombobulated in your brain." I guess that this is your way of saying that I made one mistake with the gallon of water daily.

Indeed so. I'm going to believe that it was not intentional

Originally Posted by ginkgo

You wrote Post #25--"I have read good things about "dry fasting", that it actually allows us to cleanse at an even faster rate than water fasting." Do you have a link or quote about this.

This is an excellent point. Sources would be good. Alas, what i read which convinced me is not likely to convince anybody else. I will try to stir something up, but it will take some time. The information on this is rather sparce.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Was it from Dr Shelton or a Muslim?

Would it be of no value to you coming from a Muslim? Muslims dry fast for about 12 hours per day. One of the sources i am drawing upon ("Fonty") has gone 7 days and i am pretty sure somewhere he said it was comfortable for him. I know, i know. 3 days and we are supposed to be dead right? I am convinced that there was something different in his body's ability to draw upon its water reserves in a way that mine was not. As a sample, this is one thread on dry fasting which Fonty was a part of:

Re: Dry Fasting at Fasting: Water Fast Only Support Forum
and another: Re: dry fasting... at Fasting: Water Fast Only Support Forum
and a thread on dry fasting with some good information:
Dry fast at Fasting: General Fasting Support. Here Fonty mentions a book he read by an Austrian Doctor in the early 1900s who was a strong advocate of the dry fast.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Was it that lady on the 40 day fast that said that she was drinking over a gallon of water a day?

Could be. Olivia who did 3 consecutive 40 day fasts on youtube? In any case, it certainly was not me .

Originally Posted by ginkgo

You said "I actually "dry fasted" (no water) for about 18-20 hours per day for 3 days then launched into a 40 hour dry fast which was very difficult for me. 20 hours seems to be what my body is happy with and I can do this comfortably, with only minor feelings of thirst in this time." Above you said "In the first 20 hours i had no thirst." So this is a contradiction of what you said above. Drinking when you are thirsty is different than denyng yourself water when you are a little thirsty.

I distinguish between feeling the tiniest hint of thirst, which always goes away... and is thus, arguably, not real thirst at all... and actually being thirsty, something which persists. The actual thirst consistently arrived for me after 18-20 hours. Until this time i was quite comfortable without any water.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

On your next fast, do you intend to do more dry fasting for 20 hours.

Or until actual thirst, yes. If that comes in 12 hours, i will drink in 12 hours. If it comes in 24 hours, i will wait until then. But consistently in the last fast it took 18-20 to reach that place.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Who said that animals do not drink when fasting. Dr Shelton said they drink when they need it.

I didn't say they do not drink throughout the entire duration of their fast, only that they dry fast, meaning that they do as i did, periodically throughout the fast. I am copying them, they're not copying me.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

During the fast you definitely need less water then when you are eating.

Most assuredly.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

You said "However, in the 40 hour "fast within a fast", i was pretty thirsty the entire 2nd half." After this you said you took 2 days to rehydrate. So it sounds like you got dehydrated.

This 40 hour venture was cautiously experimental. Before i went back to drinking to actual thirst, i satisfied the slightest hints of thirst for a couple days to be sure there was no deficiency. If i was in any way dehydrated, it was of an exceedingly minor nature. In any case, i believe we can view this 40 hour experiment as an example of why we should drink earlier if persistent thirst returns earlier. I resisted what i consider actual thirst for many hours, believing my internal reserves would (or might) rise up and meet the need. But when this didn't seem to happen, and thirst persisted, i drank.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Do you think that your dry fasting, may have caused you to have true hunger before your body was finished cleansing.

In one word, "No way". I ended up satisfying thirst every day with 6-8 cups of water. Could that possibly have been too little?

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Here is what Dr Shelton says on page 298 of The Science and Fine Art of Fasting (First edition 1934, Second printing 1993)-- under "Water Drinking During the Fast"-- "Drink when thirsty. Do not drink when not thirsty."

I agree with Dr. Shelton. Now is he talking about real thirst or the slightest hint of it that comes and goes on its own and can very comfortably be ignored?

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Note that recently they said on the news that they do not know who originally said to drink 8- 10 glasses of water a day but doctors found that you should drink when thirsty.

8-10 glasses is so arbitrary as to be comical. Does a 100 pound person need as much water as somebody that weighs 250? Does a sedentary person need as much as a distance runner? Do people in cold climates require as much water as those in the tropics? I believe what this is all about is that it is better as a lifestyle to be sure you have enough than to chance having too little. Often this means we will get a little more than we need, but that is not a tragedy.

When i am eating, i almost never drink water because i get such an ample supply through the fruits and vegetables i eat, including smoothies where i add enough aditional water to get the blender working. Otherwise, i would rather drink a nutritarian broth (from the juice of kale/collards/swiss chard and other vegetables) or tea so i can get additional nutrients in the same amount of space. I'll give you some credit with the tea. One of your posts drew my attention to it .

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Page 299 "Starving dogs usually drink but little, as if warned by instinct not to drink more than they have to."

Probably after going dry for 18-20 hours. I believe animals have good instincts and humans generally don't.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

This is good that this is out in the open for people wondering about drinking water during the fast. So I am agreeing with Dr Shelton-- drink when thirsty. What is your current view on drinking water while fasting?

Drink when thirsty... when actually thirsty. To achieve the most excellent fast, don't give in to the tiniest hints of thirst which will go away.

[Obay]

Congradulations on completing your 31 day fasting I am really happy for you.

I got some friends like this who go for 40 days, however they eat in the morning and at nights and keep everything else free.

One of my friends said he was about to die as his father is making him not eat.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by MightySunTzu

I know you want to believe that i was trying to prove something, when in fact i was wanting only to drink when actually thirsty. If i felt the tiniest hint of thirst and couldn't distinguish whether it was emotional or physical,
Drink when thirsty... when actually thirsty. To achieve the most excellent fast, don't give in to the tiniest hints of thirst which will go away.

As far as Muslims, people in religions tend to follow a dogma without thnking for themselves. It is not scientific at all since they do not consider anything else. For example in this Jewish religion, the people have Bar and Bat Mitvahs. I was not given a choice in this. Also they do not name babies after living people since it is considered bad luck. But this is only around 100 years old, not thousands of years old.

You do not call it a dry fast when you drink when thirsty. There is no need to watch the clock or time it if drinking when thirsty. Shelton never called it a dry fast if someone did not drink because they were not thirsty. I have not looked at the links yet. Some people think that drinking tons of water during the fast makes you cleanse faster. It does not. Now I quoted you saying the above about the dry fast. So do you believe that going without water, when you have a thirst, will cause you to cleanse faster? Yes or no. If I do go those sites they will talk about dry fasting as forcing yourself to go without water when you are thirsty. I feel that drinking more or less water than you need (as directed by thirst) will not accelerate cleansing. Do you agree with that? Yes or no.

Again you do not call it a dry fast when you are drinking when thirsty. Say someone is not hungry and they skip a meal so they have gone without food for 6 hours. They do not call it a fast? No! People do not say that they ate breakfast and then fasted for 3 hours and then ate lunch and fasted for 2 hours and then had a snack and then fasted for 3 hours and then had dinner.

People call it fasting when they continue without food even though they are hungry or want food (in the beginning). So dry fasting would be not drinking when you are thirsty. If you feel that people should drink when thirsty during a fast, that is not called dry fasting. There is then no need to confuse people by bringing up that term.

So let me repeat the question. Do you feel that people should just drink when thirsty during a fast which means that time does not enter into it at all? Or do you think that people should try to go without water for a certain length of time irregardless of thirst?

Your post was like a Rain Man routine. At the end of Rain Man they asked Raymond if he wanted to live at the center and he said yes or if he wanted to live with his brother and he said yes. They told him he cannot have both. But he insisted on both. So either you believe in drinking when thirsty or you believe in forcing yourself to drink less or more water than you actually have a thirst for.

[ginkgo]

I looked at the 3 links on dry fasting. They were not websites on fasting but were a forum like this one and they were just posts. Two of them from the same person. That forum also has a section about drinking urine and drinking urine while fasting. So have you checked them out and if you do, are you going to try to drink your urine during a fast?

I would still like to see a website, not a forum, where they suggest dry fasting or drinking urine. On forums, it is anonymous. Whereas on a website it usually has the real name of the author of the article. I do know there is a book about drinking urine by an author with an Arab name.

Actually there are websites on it and Wikipedia was saying that Mohammad had people drink camel's urine as medicine (see my thread on that).

[MightySunTzu]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I looked at the 3 links on dry fasting. They were not websites on fasting but were a forum like this one and they were just posts. Two of them from the same person.

Well it is as i said. The literature on this subject is sparce and I haven't taken the time to locate some of the sources i have seen. As i stated in a previous post, what convinced me would not likely convince anybody else. As a separate issue I posted the forum links of which Fonty was a part as an example of somebody who went 7 days without food or water and emerged from the experience with positive results. I don't expect you or anybody else to believe a word Fonty says. What matters to me personally in making my own decision is that i do. Nevertheless, i proceed with caution.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

That forum also has a section about drinking urine and drinking urine while fasting. So have you checked them out and if you do, are you going to try to drink your urine during a fast?

All kinds of strange things out there. If you can explain to me what this has to do with dry fasting, i would be most appreciative. In any case, my plan is to leave all the urine drinking to you.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I would still like to see a website, not a forum, where they suggest dry fasting or drinking urine.

This is a reasonable wish. If i locate something compelling and authoritative, i will post it.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Actually there are websites on it and Wikipedia was saying that Mohammad had people drink camel's urine as medicine (see my thread on that).

You really should try that and tell me how it goes.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

You do not call it a dry fast when you drink when thirsty. There is no need to watch the clock or time it if drinking when thirsty. Shelton never called it a dry fast if someone did not drink because they were not thirsty.

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time with this. When everything has to be either black or white, it can be quite difficult to grasp something that is gray. It seems that "the slightest hint of thirst which goes away" and "actual thirst which persists" are in every way, indistinguishable to you. This being the case, i can see how nothing i have said makes an ounce of sense to you. Again, i apologize for the trouble you are having.

Regarding "dry fasting", you seem to take great pleasure in the mincing of words. Nevertheless and in any case, to me a "dry fast" consists of resisting the first hint of thirst and awaiting actual, persisting thirst before drinking. I really don't know how i can make this any more clear for you.

By the way, beware of how you quote others. If you crop a sentence before the point of that sentence has been completed, turning it into an incomplete thought, it could be a form of misrepresentation. If you take two sentences from two entirely different quotes and place them together as one, unseparated, it also could be a form of misrepresentation. It is known as "taking something out of context". Of course it goes without saying that completely misquoting another, something else you have done to me in this thread is clearly a form of misrepresentation.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

So do you believe that going without water, when you have a thirst, will cause you to cleanse faster? Yes or no.

Yes or no. Hmm. I feel so pinned down. If i resist the first hint of thirst and wait for the real thing, yes with all my heart i believe i will cleanse faster. Drinking any more water than is actually needed will slow the rate of detoxification.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

If I do go [to] those sites they will talk about dry fasting as forcing yourself to go without water when you are thirsty.

The main idea of what i have gleaned from whatever literature i have seen on the subject is that one should drink when actual thirst arises, but that the first hint of thirst is not usually actual thirst. What i have seen offers practical tips on how to watch for the onset of dehydration and discusses how one should drink at the slightest preliminary hint of this. If you think you can dig deep and find it within yourself to quote it accurately without truncating sentences or otherwise altering the meaning of what is actually written, i would be interested to see what you are referring to.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I feel that drinking more or less water than you need (as directed by thirst) will not accelerate cleansing. Do you agree with that? Yes or no.

Again with the yes or no . I agree that drinking more water than we need will slow the cleansing process. I agree, yes, that drinking only the amount we NEED will enable us to cleanse at the fastest possible rate. Now here is the all important question, the primary theme of this discussion as i see it and the primary question which begs to be answered. Do we need water at the first hint of thirst, a thirst which will go away on its own, or do we need water only once the thirst persists? As far as i can discern, we are in near total agreement except for the level of persistence attached to the thirst.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

So let me repeat the question. Do you feel that people should just drink when thirsty during a fast which means that time does not enter into it at all? Or do you think that people should try to go without water for a certain length of time irregardless of thirst?

People should drink when actual persisting thirst arises. Time is merely coincidental. By coincidence what i consider to be actual thirst had consistently returned for me after about 18-20 hours in my previous fast. Why 18-20 hours do you think? Since i drank to thirst in the morning, walked briskly for 2 hours and drank to thirst again, then made it through the remainder of the day until bedtime without actual thirst, i was able to sleep for about 8 free hours and then drink again upon awakening at which time i perceived actual thirst again. In essence i would go 10-12 waking hours without actual thirst, then sleep 8 more. Any thirst i perceived within these 10-12 hours was both mild and unpersisting. I was thus able to very comfortably resist any slight hints of thirst until awakening the next morning.

When i say that in my next fast i expect to be dry fasting for 18-20 hours of each day (most likely after about the first 4-5 days), this is based upon my own experience with many days of not reaching a persisting thirst until the 18 or 20 hours had gone by. I am quite sure it will be different for everybody and that it could possibly be different for me next time around. With Fonty, actual thirst arises around the 7 day mark . If actual thirst returned for me sooner, i would drink sooner and would recommend the same to anybody. If actual thirst returned later i would drink later and would recommend the same. Until actual thirst returns i will trust my internal reserves to provide what is needed. What i need you to understand is that i am distinguishing between "the slightest hint of thirst which goes away" and "actual thirst which persists". If only you could embrace that these are two different things, our long debate complete with misquotes, misrepresentations and camel pee diversions could potentially be ended .

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Your post was like a Rain Man routine. At the end of Rain Man they asked Raymond if he wanted to live at the center and he said yes or if he wanted to live with his brother and he said yes. They told him he cannot have both. But he insisted on both. So either you believe in drinking when thirsty or you believe in forcing yourself to drink less or more water than you actually have a thirst for.

Boy, that would be a great analogy if only "drinking at the slightest hint of thirst" and "drinking upon an actual persisting thirst" were one and the same and could not effectively and successfully be chosen between. I am sorry you are unable to see that these are two different things. I do hope one day it will sink in.