The Raw Guru Wars

[Andrew Michaels]

At times, the clash between the the "raw gurus" - a term I dislike, btw - and between the followers of the raw gurus, can get quite heated.

One says one thing. Another another thing. People get pissed. Forum members get banned. It goes on and on.

I've recently come up with my litmus test for raw gurus - what I apply to them before I'll really listen to their message beyond a superficial level.

I've posted it on my website, and I'd like to hear your thoughts as well.

What additional criteria do you apply, and what in my list do you think is misplaced?

Peace,
Andrew

[Gabo]

I absolutely love your website, Andrew!

I started my raw food trial about 20 days ago, and began doing all the wrong things I could do on a raw diet. I ate lots of oils, lots of nuts and seeds, and chocolate. I noticed at about day 15 that I felt absolutely the same on my raw diet as I did on my previous vegetarian diet, and reflected at the time that raw simply wasn't worth the trouble. I figured I would finish my 30 days and be done with it.

Then a couple days ago someone linked your website from a post on these forums, and I have been reading it like a madman! Tomorrow I'm going to go shopping and buy tons of fruits (which are my favorite food anyway!) and then stick to all fruit for the rest of my trial, with a big salad at dinnertime.

I'm reading your post right now (as well as lots of others you linked to), and I realized my problem is that I haven't been eating enough fruit so I end up hungry and binge on fats. Thanks a bunch for your great website, and for reigniting my interest in raw food!

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Gabo

I absolutely love your website, Andrew! Thanks a bunch for your great website, and for reigniting my interest in raw food!

Nuts and seeds are hard fruits but many are not cooked but not raw due to the shelling process. Raw nuts and seeds are viable, meaning they can sprout. Thousands of Americans are fruitarians where they eat nothing other than fruit.

Plants get rid of their fruit so eating fruit will never harm a plant. One vegetarian says that she is a vegetarian because she loves animals and hates vegetables (she hates them so much that she kills them).

[ginkgo]

I just went to the website. It has some good advice. it says that any salt is too much salt. The body does not need salt, but needs sodium and most foods contain sodium especially celery.

Man has been around for 3 million years but skeletons of people over 10,000 years old have no salt in them so that is when people started eating it. That is when the takers came into existence. Before that there were only leavers (from the Daniel Quinn books).

Salt is not a food so it cannot be raw either. It is a rock. There are no raw rocks. Foods are created by plants and animals consume foods. Getting sodium from salt is like getting iron from iron ore or getting copper from copper ore.

If you consume 4 ounces (the weight of a quarter pounder) of salt at once, you will die. But it is the same with any of the above rocks. The iron and copper in foods is very different than the iron and copper in rocks.

The chlorophyll in a plant is the plant's blood. In fact a molecule of chlorophyll is the same as a molecule of your blood except that the chlorophyll has a iron atom at its center and your blood has a copper atom at its center.

According to the bible, it was about 10,000 years ago that people stopped living for hundreds of years. The AMA is trying to make salt a controlled substance by the FDA so there is a limit to how much they can add to foods.

The site mentions going to a college textbook on nutrition to find out about where to get protein. Here is what they say about protein. Protein deficiency is raw in the world and non-existent in this part of the world (North America).

Note that people that starve to death are not eating enough food which has fats, carbs and protein. The American Dietetic Association says that vegans eat twice the protein that they need. The above site has good information about salt. Salt is biblical. Before they killed Jesus (see Passion of the Christ), they tortured Him causing lots of deep cuts in His skin. Then they rubbed salt into the wounds to make it hurt much more.

[Andrew Michaels]

I'm very happy that my site was a help to you. Best of luck on the rest of your trial.

Originally Posted by Gabo

I absolutely love your website, Andrew!

I started my raw food trial about 20 days ago, and began doing all the wrong things I could do on a raw diet. I ate lots of oils, lots of nuts and seeds, and chocolate. I noticed at about day 15 that I felt absolutely the same on my raw diet as I did on my previous vegetarian diet, and reflected at the time that raw simply wasn't worth the trouble. I figured I would finish my 30 days and be done with it.

Then a couple days ago someone linked your website from a post on these forums, and I have been reading it like a madman! Tomorrow I'm going to go shopping and buy tons of fruits (which are my favorite food anyway!) and then stick to all fruit for the rest of my trial, with a big salad at dinnertime.

I'm reading your post right now (as well as lots of others you linked to), and I realized my problem is that I haven't been eating enough fruit so I end up hungry and binge on fats. Thanks a bunch for your great website, and for reigniting my interest in raw food!

[liamona]

I liked your blog post—I had no idea there were so many different raw gurus!

What do you think of Ani Phyo? I'd heard about her briefly, but then I met someone over the 4th of July weekend who is a Phyo devotee.

I realize now that she's the first and only raw vegan I've ever met who isn't also an AR activist. She looked healthy, a bit on the chubby side (but then she was on the tail end of having lost 100 pounds in the last four years), and it was so nice to meet someone who is as obsessed about food as I am.

I went to the book store and almost bought one of Phyo's cookbooks. She sure makes raw dieting look extremely appealing (mainly because she's not afraid of dietary fat), especially for the summer. However, I don't know how realistic it would be for those living in extremely cold climates, or during cold winters.

[James81]

It's not just raw food gurus. It's all over the world of nutrition and health. Everybody has their own little plan and everybody is convinced that their plan is the only plan that is truly healthy.

Personally, i think it's all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. There is no "one" perfect health plan out there. There are plenty.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by "Andrew"

I've recently come up with my litmus test for raw gurus - what I apply to them before I'll really listen to their message beyond a superficial level.

What additional criteria do you apply, and what in my list do you think is misplaced?

I think anyone giving any health advice needs to be able to explain in reliable scientific terms WHY their approach is better. There is nothing wrong with competing theories. What is a problem is when it's all woo-woo with no connection on real world science. I do agree people need to make educated decisions and not just go with following the speaker with the most charisma.

I have to admit I don't like buzzwords like "super foods" because as soon as something gets that label, everyone rushes to buy it at any price.

I don't object to the word guru, as in someone with knowledge and insight. If we're going to pick on the raw gurus, to be fair we should also pick on all the other health-food gurus, the self help gurus, and any other guru out there. Are all "gurus" just slick salesmen? I don't know. I'd like to think they're generally sincere people who believe what they're saying.

I feel one of the big problems is that most people don't have the understanding of biology, basic chemistry, or basic nutrition to spot BS when they see it. This is a failure of our educational system and of a culture that doesn't seem to value education that much.

Raw food doesn't mean buying overpriced superfoods. It doesn't mean lying to people about what you really eat. It doesn't mean going raw jus to sell food products or an ebook. It's just a way of eating, and like any other way of eating there will be a few people trying to use it to gain $$$ or respect by pushing it.

I love the idea of raw -- it has its merits. If people replaced one SAD meal a day with a raw/wholefoods one, I bet they'd lose weight, feel better, and have less bathroom problems.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I just went to the website. It has some good advice. it says that any salt is too much salt. The body does not need salt, but needs sodium and most foods contain sodium especially celery.

Sorry, ginko, but I cannot agree with you on this topic.

The body DOES need sodium in small amounts. The mere act of absorbing digested food in the small intestine requires sodium to be present for the sodium co-transport proteins on the intestinal cells to pull in aminos and carbs. The nephrons in your kidneys also use sodium co-transport to move molecules in/out of the filtrate (which then becomes urine). If you could somehow magically delete all the salt in your body, you'd be dead.

I will agree our diets have excessive amounts, but that's not the same as saying we should never have any in the diet. It's impossible to keep all salt out of the diet. Plants and animals also depend on sodium to function, so therefore they contain it in their tissues.

Salt is not a food so it cannot be raw either. It is a rock. There are no raw rocks. Foods are created by plants and animals consume foods. Getting sodium from salt is like getting iron from iron ore or getting copper from copper ore.

Salt (NaCl) is a nutrient and no more evil than nutrients such as potassium, calcium, or magnesium.

The chlorophyll in a plant is the plant's blood. In fact a molecule of chlorophyll is the same as a molecule of your blood except that the chlorophyll has a iron atom at its center and your blood has a copper atom at its center.

Incorrect, sorry.

Chlorophyll is locked in chloroplasts in plants' green leaves & stems. It does NOT circulate like blood.

Blood is not simply "molecules". I think you mean the hemoglobin protein in red blood cells, with RBC being only one of 5 types of formed elements in the bloodstream.

The heme in hemoglobin (in the RBC) has IRON as its center. Free iron in the bloodstream (outside of the redblood cells or not bound to Transferrin) is toxic and encourages bacteria, possibly making someone go septic. In other words free iron (Fe++) doesn't just float around in blood.

Chlorophyll has MAGNESIUM at its center.

According to the bible, it was about 10,000 years ago that people stopped living for hundreds of years.

I don't use the Bible to get nutrition advice. Isn't this the same book that said women were the property of their husbands, slavery is normal, and homosexuals all go to hell?

The above site has good information about salt. Salt is biblical. Before they killed Jesus (see Passion of the Christ), they tortured Him causing lots of deep cuts in His skin. Then they rubbed salt into the wounds to make it hurt much more.

What does that have to do with Raw food or diet gurus... or even the nutritional value of salt? <confused>