Some questions about martial arts

[oldbiker]

Hello all,
I am a guy who’s not strong and not weak. And what I mean by that is that I can’t stand a fight, but at the same time I have a body with an average strength, if I may say so.
Now I’m 20, and turning 21 in Feb. 2010. Is it late to start training?
Also, I’ve been doing research on jujustu, karate, and other styles and I’m confused. I know that jujutsu is best for ground fighting and karate is best for striking. But to be clear my number one concern is to gain self confidence and the ability to defence my self against strong pple.
What opinions do you have guyz? What’s the style that would best fit my needs (gain confidence, self defence...)?
Is jujutsu particularly practical?
Can I start training in two styles at the same time?
Is training in mma is useful or should I train in pure styles?
Appreciate your help.

[joelr]

Karate is AWFUL for striking. If you want to be able to strike for real you have to train in a sport where people actually compete so they have to learn the crucial aspects of standup - protecting your face, putting your hips into strikes, footwork, drilling basics forever, combinations etc... Most Karate matches are just "point sparring".
Boxing, Mui Tai, and American or Chinese (San Chow)kickboxing. Those are the most popular competitive striking sports. In class you'll spend most of the time hitting pads and light sparring. Drilling basics over and over.

Grappling is very helpful but not always practical. MMA will cover everything you need. Good schools have specialized instructors in each discipline as well as someone who knows how to put it all together.
Forget about age. One of my instructors started in his early 40's and was competing about 6 years after that in San Chow matches at Mohegan Sun in Conn.

[emeadow]

Most schools will let you come do a trial, at least for one class, sometimes up to two weeks. You might try a few and see what fits.

Even if you find a 'style' tou like, you may not like the teaching techniques, school structure, or the type of instructors/students. I did Tang Soo Do for a number of years as a teenager into my early 20's, and when I tried to get back into it later in another state, I found I did not like any of the schools nearby that taught similar styles. It wasn't the style itself, but the way the schools operated. Some were so orientated to get money for belt tests and moving you up far quicker then was even close to appropriate. Some were focused on young children, and most of the adult students ended up doing a lot of teaching, not my personal interest for training.

So maybe find some local places that do MMA, Kickboxing, Jujitsu, Krav Maga, ect, and try them out, get a feel for what a class is like and what you want out of a school. Ask about contracts, prices, equipment you need to buy, ect.

You will enjoy whatever style you pick far more if you like the environment and people you work out with. You may be rolling around on the floor with those folks several times a week, always something to keep in mind

[scorpio1980]

I believe Ninjitsu to be the greatest of all martial arts. The fighting style is mainly jujitsu, but thats only half the training. Half the time you are learning climbing skills, hiding skills, espionage, weaponry of all types, and how to survive in any situation. You also learn meditation if you aren't aware, and how to produce different types of energy depending on what the situation calls for. Most martial arts have limitations, but ninjitsu builds like a lego system, and you don't learn something new until you master what you are learning first. 21 IS YOUNG! I'm 28, and i'm still a kid in my eyes. You are as young as you believe. I know 50 year olds who could kick a 18 year old ass, because they don't limit themselves with an arbitrary number that is called age. I don't celebrate birthdays for this reason, I hope one day for someone to ask me my age, and be able to smile, and say I don't know.

[JSB]

Krav Maga would fit your requirements.

[ginkgo]

Did I imagine it or did you ask if it is late for you to start? Did anyone answer you on that and I missed it (except joelr). It is never too late while you are alive. Dead people cannot learn martial arts. There is no law that says that a teacher can only teach one style. So you can ask the teacher before joining. The jiu jitsu is good if it ends up on the ground or if you are grappling.

It is better to break the leg or disable a person with one shot. First do what is illegal in those matches mentioned above. Why is it illegal? Cause it can maim or kill. I can instantly teach you to fight like Mike Tyson. After his opponent head butted him (illegal in boxing), he bit him.

So if you are that close, you can bite. Also it is good to scratch the eyes out. Note this is not legal in those matches above. If you kick the side of the knee inward and downward, it breaks. A strike to the throat can kill someone. Make sure to check out kenpo karate. If you are worrying about hurting someone, there is a saying: "It is better to be judged by 12 people than to be carried by 6 people.

The mind is the most dangerous weapon. With it you can learn to use weapons around you. Note that I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice. Here is how to learn the deadly things for free. Ask a school what people are not allowed to do in a match. Then ask why they are not allowed. Learn from the Three Stooges. You cannot poke someone in the eye (in a match) because it may blind them. The practice of martial arts is what brings you the self-confidence. I am only telling you what can save your life.

This article tells why psychologists say that learning martial arts can make you extremely happy. Enlightenment The concluding section tells about me coming in second in a karate tournament. I know this neighbor that I could recognize as being a much happier person than the ordinary person. When her parents visited her, I learned that she had been learning karate since age 6 and was a black belt at age 13.

The ability to defend yourself and self-confidence are not proportional. A police officer is great at defending himself by shooting someone, but may have little self-confidence. That is why several of them may beat the hell out of unarmed person. Chuck Norris did tang soo do. His tears are a cure for cancer. Too bad that he never cries. Watch the Billy Jack movies. He learned hapkido. Watch earlier Steven Segal (when he was thin) movies. He learned aikido. Bruce Lee learned a certain gung fu strike that if he punched someone in the abdomen, he could rupture organs. Although it takes training like building strong wrists. He could generate lot of striking power with a punch only 1 inch away from an opponent. He would strike a telephone book on someone's chest and send them flying.

[CLKFTW]

Go with MMA. A good MMA gym will teach you everything: stand-up striking, ground game (ground & pound, BJJ submissions), and grappling. That's all you need in a clean fight.

If you want to learn one thing at a time, I would suggest Muay Thai for striking, and BJJ for groundgame. Just keep in mind that almost all street fights will end up going to the ground.

I was over 20 when I started Muay Thai. I tried Karate before that, but didn't like it because of all the katas (sequences) we need to memorize. Muay Thai is simple and effective.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by oldbiker

Hello all,
I am a guy who’s not strong and not weak. And what I mean by that is that I can’t stand a fight, but at the same time I have a body with an average strength, if I may say so.
Now I’m 20, and turning 21 in Feb. 2010. Is it late to start training?
Also, I’ve been doing research on jujustu, karate, and other styles and I’m confused. I know that jujutsu is best for ground fighting and karate is best for striking. But to be clear my number one concern is to gain self confidence and the ability to defence my self against strong pple.
What opinions do you have guyz? What’s the style that would best fit my needs (gain confidence, self defence...)?
Is jujutsu particularly practical?
Can I start training in two styles at the same time?
Is training in mma is useful or should I train in pure styles?
Appreciate your help.

It's never too late to start training. You could start training in two styles, but it would like 1.5x as hard(I was just playing video games ).

[ginkgo]

One guy says that all street fights end up on the ground. Yes, but only for this one guy. Best One Punch Knockout Ever*Video

[newmark]

I've met people who have taken up martial arts in their 30's and become quite successful. I met one man who began aikido when he was 56, and by the time he was 65 he was healthy and could fight well for his age.

This has been discussed before here on the forums. Choosing a good local teacher is more important than choosing the best style. There isn't one. There are many styles because there are many different kinds of people with different bodies and minds.

Try out several local clubs and choose the one with the best teacher and atmosphere.

[oldbiker]

Thank you all guyz for your advice
What is the style that you can benefit from fast. I mean that you can start using it's techniques in real situations in a matter of few months?

[loic]

Hi.

If you train as an amateur (ie less than 15-20 hours a week) any martial art will be impractical to defend yourself. Just, please, forget this. And if you think differently, I wont go to great length to convince you. I have had this debate before, and can't really be bothered.

If defense is a concern however, some schools have good teachers that can teach you the proper mindset to defend yourself: detect a situation, defuse it, flee, if not possible, give all you have.

I would recommend going for krav maga, or penchak silat, or any reality based system. You will learn the dirty tricks, the mindset etc. This can help you to detect and flee a dangerous situation, which is the most important.

Now, in this day and age, does it really matter?
What are the odds of you getting into a fight? Is it sane to train like a madman, injuring your body in the process, in the unlikely event of a fight? I don't think so, but then again, I don't know where you live.

Why don't you pick a martial art that you like practicing, without thinking about defense?

Just practicing, being fitter than most, knowing your body better than most, will boost your confidence.

Choose something that you like doing, and stick to it.

[jak3b]

Forget about fighting.If you come at it from a fear based perspective you wont last anyway.Good "fighters" get killed all the time in a "street" situation.Im not talking about the kids beating each other up(Very funny vid btw,someone should have knocked the screamer out.)But like getting robbed at gunpoint,Being at the wrong place at the wrong time etc.If you want to be a good ring fighter than by all means,do MMA,Gracey Jujitsu,boxing,Muy Thai,Sanda,But even at a high level this will not make you any "safer".The traditional martial arts styles will, over time,maybe alot of time,help you become healthier,calmer,feeling more inner peace,have a better outlook on life all around.What happens then is that you dont find your self in situations where fighting skills are nessesary,your life flows in a positive direction,your thinking is positive people react to you in positive ways.Tommy Hearns was asked about fighting on the street growing up in Detroit,he said he always ran away!.Safer that way.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by oldbiker

Thank you all guyz for your advice
What is the style that you can benefit from fast. I mean that you can start using it's techniques in real situations in a matter of few months?

With MMA you'll get the basics of boxing and ground work, or more importantly how to avoid getting taken down. Those are the 2 most important. With boxing you'll know how to protect your face, center your weight and keep AWAY from your opponent by circling away. Also how to fully extend your arm for a quick snappy jab (while staying centered/balanced) which is good for keeping people away from you. If you get rushed they will walk into a strike or it will be easy to go low, scoop their legs and use a quick takedown, then quickly GET UP and run or at least get back into fighting stance.
Boxing isn't just punching people. It's excellent defense. When my old instructor didn't want to get hit I could NEVER hit him. But if an untrained person does corner you, you will be amazed at how many openings he is leaving to get hit or dumped on his back, once you have some basics. Even guys who came to the gym who were well trained in things like karate, tae quon do, whatever, really stunk at striking (no hips, balance, extention, head movement, face protection etc...) during real sparring with gloves, facepads etc.. Although kickboxing isn't part of this advice the traditional martial arts guys I saw were really stretchy and quick with the kicks but usually telegraphed them and had NO power - they don't use their hips at all. When the fighter kickboxer guys from Maui tai and Sanda kick the pads it sounds like a baseball bat. Very efficient energy transfer. But forget about kicking for self defense.

With basic boxing it is likely no one will get seriously hurt.
Of course in a street fight with a stranger it's usually best to just get away from the scene if you can. But with boxing you can comfortably back away with your guard still up if need be. If you see a weapon, run.

[oldbiker]

Hi.

If you train as an amateur (ie less than 15-20 hours a week) any martial art will be impractical to defend yourself. Just, please, forget this. And if you think differently, I wont go to great length to convince you. I have had this debate before, and can't really be bothered.

If defense is a concern however, some schools have good teachers that can teach you the proper mindset to defend yourself: detect a situation, defuse it, flee, if not possible, give all you have.

I would recommend going for krav maga, or penchak silat, or any reality based system. You will learn the dirty tricks, the mindset etc. This can help you to detect and flee a dangerous situation, which is the most important.

Now, in this day and age, does it really matter?
What are the odds of you getting into a fight? Is it sane to train like a madman, injuring your body in the process, in the unlikely event of a fight? I don't think so, but then again, I don't know where you live.

Why don't you pick a martial art that you like practicing, without thinking about defense?

Just practicing, being fitter than most, knowing your body better than most, will boost your confidence.

Choose something that you like doing, and stick to it.

This really made me feel frustrated. Then what's the point of learning martial arts at all?
I live in a relatively safe environment. And I don't want to train to be able to defense my self in a street fight with strangers, but I want to have confidence and the ability to fight back in any case of emergency. In general, I want to be confident and strong. I've had a lot of problems in the past. I want to change my self image.
Can you explain a bit more why you don't think learning a martial art would help me?

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by oldbiker

Hello all,
I am a guy who’s not strong and not weak. And what I mean by that is that I can’t stand a fight, but at the same time I have a body with an average strength, if I may say so.
Now I’m 20, and turning 21 in Feb. 2010. Is it late to start training?
Also, I’ve been doing research on jujustu, karate, and other styles and I’m confused. I know that jujutsu is best for ground fighting and karate is best for striking. But to be clear my number one concern is to gain self confidence and the ability to defence my self against strong pple.
What opinions do you have guyz? What’s the style that would best fit my needs (gain confidence, self defence...)?
Is jujutsu particularly practical?
Can I start training in two styles at the same time?
Is training in mma is useful or should I train in pure styles?
Appreciate your help.

I've been in your shoes so here is my advice.

I would mix Jiu Jitsu with boxing and/or Muay Thai (a lot of schools offer all). 2 or 3 days a week JJ, with 2 or 3 striking sessions. You'll get in great shape in no-time and you'll know how to defend yourself for wherever a fight may go if you happen to get into one. Also, as you'll be in better shape and know how to fight, you'll be much more confident and much less likely to get into one.

Training in MMA is useful for the reason mentioned before. Plus it's a lot of fun.

By the way, most people have a preference for striking or grappling. Try out a few gyms in your area and see what you like best. Find that one that clicks with you.

If you train as an amateur (ie less than 15-20 hours a week) any martial art will be impractical to defend yourself. Just, please, forget this. And if you think differently, I wont go to great length to convince you. I have had this debate before, and can't really be bothered.

I have to disagree with this. If you take a guy and have him train 5 days a week (in a good style), 1 hr each day, he can get into really good shape in a short time. Put him against someone off the street and he should be able to dominate him or at the very least defend himself.

Now, in this day and age, does it really matter?
What are the odds of you getting into a fight?

Yes it does and it depends on where the person lives, his temperment, character, etc... Regardless of the fight aspect, there are the benefits of greater relaxtion, improved health, stronger body, stronger mind, and more.

[loic]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

I have to disagree with this. If you take a guy and have him train 5 days a week (in a good style), 1 hr each day, he can get into really good shape in a short time. Put him against someone off the street and he should be able to dominate him or at the very least defend himself.

Fear? Hidden weapons? cheap shots?

He is gonna be able to defend himself from amateurs. Drunk people, random angry guys.

Not again professional "predators".

[Nasir]

Originally Posted by oldbiker

Hello all,
I am a guy who’s not strong and not weak. And what I mean by that is that I can’t stand a fight, but at the same time I have a body with an average strength, if I may say so.
Now I’m 20, and turning 21 in Feb. 2010. Is it late to start training?
Also, I’ve been doing research on jujustu, karate, and other styles and I’m confused. I know that jujutsu is best for ground fighting and karate is best for striking. But to be clear my number one concern is to gain self confidence and the ability to defence my self against strong pple.
What opinions do you have guyz? What’s the style that would best fit my needs (gain confidence, self defence...)?
Is jujutsu particularly practical?
Can I start training in two styles at the same time?
Is training in mma is useful or should I train in pure styles?
Appreciate your help.

Hello Oldbiker,

I teach a mix of Kenpo Karate, Muay Thai, and Western Boxing. I have been training for over 15 years, and love to dabble in all types of martial arts. It's never too late to start training. I would start off with Muay Thai, Western Boxing, and Jujitsu. I would also look into Chin Na. You can train as many, or as few styles as you want to at any time. You can go to a school that teaches multiple styles, or a school that teaches one style. It's all up to you. In the end, it is a must to know both stand up and ground fighting; however, in a real situation it's always best to avoid the ground, if at all possible.

Yes, Karate strikes can be very powerful, if you know how & when to use them. Being able to mix Karate techniques with Western Boxing can also be very effective.

It's not about the style, styles do not matter. It's all about the amount of practice you put in (practice often & never practice half-heartedly), how well your instructor teaches, and if you are learning good quality techniques / mechanics. You should always be completely worn out after a good martial arts class (dripping sweat, hardly able to drink from your water bottle, because your arms are shaking). When you wake up the next day you should be very sore.

Here are some pointers for self defense:

1. Master your mind state: This will be the hardest skill to acquire & maintain. Instead of fighting using animal instincts, focus on the present moment, until your perception of time slows. Athletes call this state of mind "flow." Once you are in this state of flow, you will be able to handle situations with greater ease. You will also want to meditate on positive things daily, and foster a state of clam within. A proper mind state will be essential to avoiding, and dealing with trouble.

2. Once you have control of your mind state, and only after, invest in, practice with, and carry some of the following:

* Brass Knuckles
* Knives (Butterfly Knives, Throwing Knives, Etc.)
* Guns

Best wishes,
Nasir

[CLKFTW]

haha, funny vid. Thanks for posting. Hope the kid is ok and get smarter in the future.

To the OP, I just want to add that some confidence can be built from knowing that in a clean fight, you can kick somebody's ass. However, that's really not the best mentality to have. It's negative and most street fights don't stay clean - the best thing to do is avoid any street fights.

Personally, martial arts built my confidence by testing myself discipline. WHen you know that you can push yourself further than you thought possible, you start to feel that you can do anything if you put your mind into it and your confidence grows.

[joelr]

Originally Posted by oldbiker

This really made me feel frustrated. Then what's the point of learning martial arts at all?
I live in a relatively safe environment. And I don't want to train to be able to defense my self in a street fight with strangers, but I want to have confidence and the ability to fight back in any case of emergency. In general, I want to be confident and strong. I've had a lot of problems in the past. I want to change my self image.
Can you explain a bit more why you don't think learning a martial art would help me?

Kinda focusing on the negative here.

That video is a perfect example of why boxing is important. That dude had his hands way DOWN (Karate style). When sparring, my hands go down, I get punched.

[ultimate]

Its good to know a mixture of kicks, punches, grappling etc

I hear krav maga is good, kali, jeet kune do.

For self defence they will need to contain strikes to vulnerable areas, e.g. eye jabs, throat, groin kicks etc

these are not permitted in mma although mma is great for learning correct punching/kicking techniques etc and of course takedown defence.

whatever you learn it wants to be practical and to the point

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by loic

Fear? Hidden weapons? cheap shots?

He is gonna be able to defend himself from amateurs. Drunk people, random angry guys.

Not again professional "predators".

What is a professional predator?

[Alvin]

Hi oldbiker,

I've been doing martial arts since 1995, first in Wing Chun, then mainly Bujinkan Taijutsu, and now Tony Blauer's Personal Defense Readiness system, with dashes of Tai Chi, Tai Chi Sword and TKD thrown in.

Let me try to help you with my 2 cents. First of all, despite many claims to the contrary, it'll be more useful for you to distinguish that martial arts and self-defense are always not the same thing.

This is really important.

The Fine Line Between Martial Arts & Self-Defense

The simplest way to describe it would be that martial arts teach you the physical level of self-defense - they come in at the point when you're already in danger.

But violence doesn't happen in a vacuum; what were you doing before the fight happened? Did you choose to walk the dark alley shortcut at 2am despite your common sense? Were you verbally sparring with someone and letting your temper and mouth get the better of you? Did you notice that weird person loitering around the ATM but decided to go withdraw your money anyway?

That's the self-defense aspect that comes BEFORE the physical that, in my humble opinion, is much more useful to the ordinary civilian than physical martial arts skill. Hey, if you can avoid the fight just with your awareness and wits alone, why not? The point of all this is to get you home safe in the first place, isn't it?

Unfortunately, these skills have no relation to anything like a wrist lock or elbow strike, and most of the martial arts schools, at least the ones I know, don't teach them.

What Are Your Goals?

It sounds like I'm knocking martial arts, but I'm not. I'm a martial artist myself, and I still enjoy them very much. The most important question here is then what are you goals? What do you want to get out of martial arts training?

For example, if your main goal is to get fit and buff, then a martial art like Muay Thai or MMA would help you reach that goal faster than something like Tai Chi or Aikido.

If your main goal is to appreciate it as an art form, maybe something like wushu would satisfy you.

Do you see what I mean? It's not about which martial art you should train in, but what you want to get out of martial arts and then choosing accordingly.

Recommended

Personally, my main goal in taking up martial arts is self-defense, which is why my path has taken me down to systems like Tony Blauer's PDR. If you're also inclined that way, here are some links you might find useful.

Are Martial Arts Self-Defense?
Are Martial Arts Self-Defense?
Marc 'Animal' MacYoung's No Nonsense Self-Defense site may be wordy, but it's bar-none the best self-defense site I've ever found. A whole encyclopedia's worth of knowledge there, all had to be for free.

Fast Defense
FAST Defense - Confidence, Courage, Composure, Unity... - Home
I've never attended one of Fast Defense's courses, but I've heard they do good stuff.

Tony Blauer's PDR & SPEAR Systems
Tony Blauer Tactical Systems
What I personally train in for self-defense. My previous martial arts training have all benefited me in some way, and I'm sure I'll find them useful if it ever gets physical, but the PDR system has probably taught me more about useful self-defense than my years in MA (about 14 years now).