In vitro meat

[Somi]

Hi everyone,

Forgive me if this has been discussed before as I usually read Steve's blog but less often post in the forums.

The question I'd like to ask is whether you would be willing to consume "in vitro meat", instead of slaughtered animal meat? (if you don't know about it, you can find out here: In vitro meat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I personally have tried veganism in the past, but have given it up because I'm unconvinced of all the health and ethical reasons that are given for why one may want to practice veganism and since I train with weights and do fitness modelling I found that I experienced noticeably more catabolism during that period. I even fought with many of my sportive friends who really tried to help me through my diet as I was going to compete, but I stuck with veganism because I wanted to experiment with it.

While, ethically, I remain agnostic about argues against eating meat, I am, still, concerned about the environmental impact due to its production.

In vitro meat, seems to be the answer to this, but I think the main reason why there is less enthusiasm for its mass-production is the fact that many people may reject it.

So please share your ideas

Cheers all

[aggie]

most interesting...since i wholly am sympathetic to what i consider very strong ethical reasons for not consuming meat. i have never achieved a vegan status...did not do any meat including fish for 11 yrs and then had a protein problem...but even when i eat fish i have tremendous guilt. i support peta and the message they are getting out there...every other aspect aside in vitro meat might be a feasible alternative for health reasons because i know carneteine is only found in red meat. if most people did know what occurred in slaughterhouses of all types...they might rethink

[funchy]

It would remove the horrible cruelty out of the equation but it doesn't remove the fact meat is a wonderful breeding ground for pathogens. I associate meat with pathogens, death, decomposition, putrefaction.

The moment the animal dies, its tissue die, and lysosomes and enzymes in the cells are allowed to run willy-nilly. Natural systems that hold bacteria in check stop, so bacteria begin multiplying like crazy. This is what we call putrefaction in a dead body. In other words meat starts to spoil the moment the animal's heart stops beating. Refrigeration only slows the rotting. Cooking only kills most of the colonies of bacteria (plus parasites and viruses). Now it's just partially-sterilized partially-decomposed body tissue.. This is the real reason why we MUST cook meat to eat it, not for flavor or ease of chewing. Uncooked, it can kill us. We're not meant to eat it.

The people who do eat meat have managed to compartmentalize the concepts so they no longer associate butcher shop with cute baby calf or hamburger with body parts. I'll bet most will reject in vitro meat because it forces them to reconnect the idea this is body tissue, not some generic 'food' that appears on a Styrofoam tray in a grocery store.

Some will argue that meat is "natural" which is why they feel it's ok they eat meat, but laboratory meat is "unnatural" so it can't be any good. But I am not sure what is natural about locking an animal in a tiny cage in a dark shed, feeding it an unnatural diet, and keeping it alive with antibiotics?

Farmers will be outraged and will try to destroy any viable in-vitro meat industry because it forces them to change what they produce. Dairy and cattle councils will start negative PR campaigns against it, scaring consumers into thinking it's more dangerous that the arsenic, BGH, steroid filled products currently being sold. Those business groups will lobby to have it regulated or removed or they're scare consumers away from it. The meat industry is extremely powerful in the US and they have control over everything from FDA food pyramids to Farm Bill spending to the new federal law that makes protesting animal abuse a felony. Also expect to be sued (as in Oprah being sued for exposing BSE is in our food system) to shut up anyone who talks. The meat industry is such a completely dishonest and corrupt business.

In short: meat is not healthy, no matter how many millions of dollars the meat & dairy boards spend on telling me so in advertisements.

[aggie]

funchy, thank you soooo much for articulating so well what most meat eaters don't know or don't want to know...you are absolutely correct...i have long believed the beef industry was right up there with pharmaceutical companies, corrupt politicians, and the upper echelons of the medical profession....we are not encouraged to live healthy lives....to eat healthily...aside from the meat issue...look at how much a cheap heart attack on a plate that you can feed your family from a fast food chain as opposed to organic healthy fruit, vegetables, soy protein substitutes, unsugared cereals, etc. etc.....i often told people if you could lnot look at the whole meat issue from a compassionate stand point...try the health standpoint, at least. our teeth are not meant for eating meat, contrary to what people say about the canines and our intestines would be very short like those of a lion or a tiger so it could pass very quickly instead of putrifying for 72 hours before being passed out of the body. i read somewhere if the average meat eater had to go out hunt, run down, kill, skin and cut up their own meat meal...very few would do it...that is how "natural" it is....

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by aggie

funchy, thank you soooo much for articulating so well what most meat eaters don't know or don't want to know...you are absolutely correct...i have long believed the beef industry was right up there with pharmaceutical companies, corrupt politicians, and the upper echelons of the medical profession....we are not encouraged to live healthy lives....to eat healthily...aside from the meat issue...look at how much a cheap heart attack on a plate that you can feed your family from a fast food chain as opposed to organic healthy fruit, vegetables, soy protein substitutes, unsugared cereals, etc. etc.....i often told people if you could lnot look at the whole meat issue from a compassionate stand point...try the health standpoint, at least. our teeth are not meant for eating meat, contrary to what people say about the canines and our intestines would be very short like those of a lion or a tiger so it could pass very quickly instead of putrifying for 72 hours before being passed out of the body. i read somewhere if the average meat eater had to go out hunt, run down, kill, skin and cut up their own meat meal...very few would do it...that is how "natural" it is....

I don't eat the poisoned meat from factory farms. I just love how vegans always make meat to be the culprit to bad health, when it's really, fast food, too much sugar, soy foods, trans fats, and the chemicals that man puts in foods. If meat is so bad, then how come all the long lived people consume it? Where are your vegan tribes? Actually our teeth are made for both meat, and plants, thats why we are called omnivoires, just like our closest relatives, the apes. I don't have to kill my meat, but I would if needed.

[Somi]

Interesting ideas so far, but may I slightly push the thread back to the original question?!

I'm sure there have been many discussion of meat vs no meat (vegan) diets on the board. My question, however, was whether you would eat in vitro meat, instead of slaughtered meat.

I know funchy answered to some of those. I get back to those, also, when there are a few more openions on in vitro meat.

[aggie]

i have never cared for meat...even as a child...i would hide it under my plate...or at the very least it had to burned beyond recognition....my moral values came later in life...i am not really sure, unless i needed to for health reasons eat in vitro meat...and not all vegetarians or vegans eat the unhealthy fast food sugar laden diets hinted at...not eating meat is more of a lifestyle concept to me based on moral and health issues. as i said unfortunately for our society...we are not really always encouraged to be health concious...that would put a lot of people out of work...that is why fast food and sugary processed foods are so cheap and readily available...a lot of it gets down to laziness too....not wanting to go thru the trouble of serious shopping, choices and preparation or exercise!...please don't lump us into some pathetic tribe...if you want meat so bad...by all means if you have to kill it to eat it do so!...even if our teeth are technically made for both plants and meat...what about our intestines and the amount of time meat stays there? in my heart society would evolve towards a healthier non meat diet that could provide the nutrients we need...without getting into a whole big deal and digressing too much...if one believes there was a garden of eden...we were not eating the animals...we were co existing. in my head i know people are going to love their meat...but it would be nice to at least provide it humanely!

[scorpio1980]

There is no such thing as an herbavoire animal, all animals eat insects on a regular basis, most do it on purpose, some just eat them when they are stuck on a leaf. Even that cow out in the field eats pounds of insects weekly, which means they are getting nutrients not found in the grass. No if you eat insects you are not 100% herbavoire. As for internal components it comes down to alot more than intestinal legnth. We as humans have to ferment leaves and plant matter to digest them, most of this happens in the large intestines, meaning bacteria is produced on a massive scale, and believe it or not meat from a healthy animal will not hurt you if eaten raw, I have eaten raw meat on a regular basis for years, and not once has it made me sick, but my sister got sick eating spinich that was infested with ecoli. I really don't mind people choosing to eat an all plant based diet, but it truely agrivates me to see people say my lifestyle choice of meat eating is not good for me. Tell the many cultures around the world who subsist on a 50% meat 50% plant diet that meat is bad, tell my 96 y/o grandpa, tell me, tell the scientist who have done major research in the field of nutrition, tell weston price his findings were bunk, tell every person I know who are in good shape in their 80's and 90's (my gramps has lots of friends), tell 99% of the worlds population that meat is bad, we will all shake our heads, move on, with a steak in one hand, and a carrot in the other. I will not down your lifestyle, and tell you it's not good for, but I expect the same. Meat does not kill, we are developed in a way to eat it. If you were in the woods say 10000 years ago in your current location during the winter could you really survive on just plant matter? I hardly believe so, and that one point alone means nature planned for this by nurishing some animals through things you can't survive off of such as tree leaves, and this animal turns it into fat, proteins, and everyother thing needed for life. Yes you can be vegan today, but do you use any supps, because I don't need to. Do you have to consume grains, because they are not natural for us, but instead they are eaten by animals that can eat them uncooked right off the ground or plant itself. Do you drink soy milk? Wow how natural do you think that is? All I have to say about soy milk is good luck with your thyroid, and hormones. Sickness does not come from meat, it comes from sick meat that were fed grains, and shot up with man made chemicals. We have eaten meat for aslong as man has been here, infact if we look back as a whole we ate more meat, and lard, and milk, and eggs 150 years ago than we do today, but we had no or extreemly low rates for heart disease, cancer, diebetes, or syndrom x. Now 1 in every 2 kids by the year 2025 is expected to have diebetes, right now we have 20 y/o having heart attacks, and kids dying of cancer. Meat doesn't explain this since the massive rise in disease doesn't correlate with the fall in consumption. Thier is something else driving disease, and yes I will agree meat is involved, but it's grain fed sick meat, please don't lump all meat in the same category. We also have transfats today, the milk is homoginized, everything is radiated with microwaves, and we put all sorts of man made flavorings, and perservatives in our foods. Some parents are even feeding their kids soy formula, thats just sick. We inhale car exhaust, work inside under florescent lights, and stress over things that didn't even exist 100 years ago. Nutrition is also only part of the big picture, most of our sickness comes from stress, about, work, family, or sickness, which leads us back to the lifestyle choices we make. We are meant to sustain ourselves with anything that nourishes us without harm, and that is any organic plant or animal product that isn't produced by man. If you never want to get disease, eat lots of produce, wild fish, organic meats, keep stress low, and sleep enough, and thats all you need. I don't have a limited diet, fad diets are limited, which is not how nature is set up.

[aggie]

no offense....but duh....i was not downing the life style...if people want to do meat raw or other...if they can be healthy...that is great...i said i knew in my head meat eating would continue...i just asked for it to be done humanely...you mention everything that is wrong with factory farming and what makes people unhealthy or sick...the hormones to make meat animals or milk producers to grow bigger faster...the cramped, filthy conditions chickens are kept in the cramped conditions a veal calf is kept in to atrophy the meat so they are pumped with antibiotcs....etc, etc....the beef industry...big business, the health care system, the pharmaceutical companies and yes animal activists and society that cares all need to get on the same page...we are by no means going in the right direction...meat eater or not...i said healthy organic food is way more expensive than the crap that is out there to eat cheaply...i could go on on...but you get the point...one thing however...what is so bad about soy milk...we are (except for surrogate animal mothers) the only species that suckles off another species....

[liamona]

Originally Posted by Somi

While, ethically, I remain agnostic about argues against eating meat, I am, still, concerned about the environmental impact due to its production.

In vitro meat, seems to be the answer to this, but I think the main reason why there is less enthusiasm for its mass-production is the fact that many people may reject it.

Do you have access to pasture-raised animals, like from farmers listed in EatWild.com? I'd rather eat these animals than something grown in a lab.