Bodybuilding (and/or Vegeterian/Vegan)

[Hsiang-Lin]

Hi everyone! Very excited to be here. Has been looking forward to the opening of this forum for many days.

Who here is into bodybuilding? I just got into it this year and I've also been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for about a week now (although I've had vegan meals and try to limit dairy and egg products when possible).

It hasn't been a tough change for me and like some people, I haven't experienced a drastic boost in clarity although I certainly feel much better morally.

Bodybuilding and being vegeterian/vegan sounds so contradictory, but I want to see what other people's views are and I'm excited to be pursuing this path as it is a path rarely taken. Pump up!

[moltar]

I do both, not for very long though. Working out since March 2006, and (almost) vegan since July 2006. I think it's a bit harder, but I haven't seen any proof of that yet. You just need to consume more protein. I like Nutribiotic rice protein.

The reason I said almost is because I also eat fish (salmon, tuna) and honey.

[Hsiang-Lin]

Yeah, I still eat a lot of eggs and cheese as I haven't learned sufficient information to replace the protein from these two sources. I do eat a lot of nuts and broccoli and drink a lot of soy milk to give myself an added boost in protein.

I started bodybuilding around April 2006. I started on a regimen summer and it's only now in the Fall that I really started on a whole body workout schedule. I used to be mostly a runner and swimmer, but I find bodybuilding much more rewarding because of the results you can see in the mirror. I also love the feeling of the pump! (maybe not as much as Arnold lol)

I also run and swim during the week to balance my lifting days. Bodybuilding is indeed a lifestyle. And what a great one it is!

[Vinny]

I just started at the gym. They have a swimming pool, basketball gym, all kinds of things. And I stop eating meat. This is going to be very fun experience!

[tobyhede]

I was lacto-ovo vegetarian and weight-trained for about 10 years.

Never really had any problems. Depending on your dietary restriction and your traning load, you may benefit from a good whey protein supplement - this is milk-based, obviously. Eggs and milk are great as well.

Vegan is harder - I was vegan for a little while and found it a challenge to get enough protein to really see any gains.

[Ben]

I'm not vegan and I wouldn't consider myself a bodybuilder (althougth I do use free weights), but I was interested in this subject myself awhile back and I found out about Mike Mahler. He's a vegan bodybuilder who is into kettlebell training. You can read about his diet here. There are some interesting tips, like consuming healthy fats.

[Milo Riano]

I used to be a gym rat and could bench press a max of 240 lbs 6 reps despite being only 5' 5'' tall. My leg press were at 300lbs, etc.

I tried being a vegetarian during my gym rat days but I got so weak, tired and my muscles doesn't seem to get back to its normal strenght. It took my muscles very long to recover.

Obviously it doesn't work for me. Anyone here could sustain a strong body despite being vegetarian?

Seriously, I doubt that would work unless you just run an hour on a threadmill and do some light weights after.

[Hsiang-Lin]

Very interesting, thanks for the article!

Reading that just makes me more inspired to continue bodybuilding and being vegeterian (maybe one day vegan ).

Bring it on!

[moltar]

I was interested in this subject myself awhile back and I found out about Mike Mahler.

That's an awesome article, thanks a lot. I was looking for someone like this to model/learn from.

Anyone here could sustain a strong body despite being vegetarian?

My results aren't anywhere near yours, but I do see constant progress in my lifting abilities. I keep log of everything I do.

[Wreck]

Beans and rice, oatmeal, eggs and dairy (especially whey) will get you a long way. But true bodybuilding takes lots and lots of protein. I'm certainly no expert and not going to say it can't be done, but I've not yet seen anyone with an impressive physique that didn't eat meat.

However, you should be able to maintain a fairly muscular and very lean physique like the pretty-boy models.

[Brendon Colby]

I also found this site. There are a few body builders on there who compete. They even have some vegan nutrition programs for body building. I'm very interested in building a muscular physique on a vegan diet.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Milo Riano

I used to be a gym rat and could bench press a max of 240 lbs 6 reps despite being only 5' 5'' tall. My leg press were at 300lbs, etc.

I tried being a vegetarian during my gym rat days but I got so weak, tired and my muscles doesn't seem to get back to its normal strenght. It took my muscles very long to recover.

Obviously it doesn't work for me. Anyone here could sustain a strong body despite being vegetarian?

Seriously, I doubt that would work unless you just run an hour on a threadmill and do some light weights after.

Yeah come to think of it. I don't know of any veggie bodybuilders.

Actually all the veggies that I've met have been pretty skinny. I'm not saying there aren't any exceptions. But the ones I've verified as veggies have been skinny.

[Wreck]

From Brendon's link, in the image galleries, Ben Schosha is the biggest I've seen. And I'm assuming that if he's veggie, he's also natural. Too bad he doesn't have a shot of his wheels posted.

[Brendon Colby]

Originally Posted by Wreck

From Brendon's link, in the image galleries, Ben Schosha is the biggest I've seen. And I'm assuming that if he's veggie, he's also natural. Too bad he doesn't have a shot of his wheels posted.

As far as I know, everyone on this site is all natural vegan. I could be mistaken though... And you're right - he's pretty big!

[Hsiang-Lin]

I know a Bill Pearl was an old champion who was lacto-ovo vegetarian.

Robert Cheeke is a vegan bodybuilder and although he has a more lean physique (I want to go for the big look), he is a very inspirational figure for vegan bodybuilding and I look up to him.

In the end, I still believe it's possible to become a big via a vegetarian/vegan diet. If my only goal was to get as big as possible, I would not even bother trying this diet. But I feel this diet has a lot of benefits and also it just makes me feel a lot better knowing I'm not contributing anymore to the harsh slaughter of animals. A little inconvenience in my eating is worth it for the torture and killings of these animals

I'm still quite small and definitely not as strong as some of you guys on here, but I have a lot of fuel still left in me to burn

[yeikow]

I have been going to the gym for several years, the last year and a half as a vegetarian and now vegan.

I do have a harder time gaining volume but the thing is I used to drink protein milkshakes before so that helped a lot. I get very hungry, I believe the reason why I don't increase my volume much is because I simply don't eat enough. I am getting back to the gym hardcore and am expecting nice results in the following weeks/months.

Vegans not being big? Well, think of Tony Robbins, he's MASSIVE and STRONG and certainly vegan.

[Lonewolf]

Hi, I'm a powerlifter of 14 years experience and I've tried every diet at one time or another. Each person reacts quite differently to training and diet and you really to experiment with everythign to understand how your body reacts. For me, I found lacto/ovo vegetarianism is fine for muscle growth, especially if you have skim milk-shakes around the clock. Veganism does not work at all for me - it feels like a contrived, artificial diet with few interesting taste sensations unless you put a lot of time into recipies and food preparation. When I was on a cutting diet recently I went full vegan for a week and did not lose any weight at all unlike Steve's experience. In fact I put on a little bit because the carbs attract water.
This is just what happens to me - I am at a very high level of training and have a high metabolism too. My honest advice is just to experiment for a while. The key to muscle growth is over-eating though - you must have a great excess of calories to force your body to develop.

[jpfieber]

I've been lifting for about 6 months and recently have considered going lacto/ovo vegetarian. I'm currently phasing red meat out of my diet, and if that goes well I'll then phase out chicken as well. I've also wondered how this change in diet will affect my workout results, so please continue with the great feedback!

[Lonewolf]

Eggs and milk will give you most nutrients except for creatine which is important. Also eat heaps of greens for iron, take a mulitvitamin and consider having meat maybe one meal a week just to ensure you are missing out on nothing. Drink 2 litres of skim milk every day and try the classic 20 rep squat routine if you want to get big.

[Cron]

Vegan Fitness :: Home

[Milo Riano]

Originally Posted by Brendon Colby

I also found this site. There are a few body builders on there who compete. They even have some vegan nutrition programs for body building. I'm very interested in building a muscular physique on a vegan diet.

Oh yeah, they are quite big for vegans but are they strong? There are gym programs that makes you bulk up fast but don't make you strong. While there are those that makes you very strong while you still look lean. The hardest is getting yourself big and strong.

My goal in hitting the gym is to be really strong which is something I believe would come in handy during emergency situations.

It would be very interesting if a vegan could be as strong and big as this guy JayCutler.com - The Official Website of 2006 Mr. Olympia Jay Cutler hehehe. just for kicks. The program on his site is what I used and when I went vegan I was dead tired that I felt I could not even walk my way to the parking lot after.

[Ibanez]

Different training will also influence the muscle fiber types in your body, type IIc, IIab, IIb, and so on and so forth.

It's a really bad idea to mimic any routine from a professional let alone a professional bodybuilder.

But even then there's the strength vs power debate. For instance an elite powerlifter will be strong and an elite olympic weightlifter will be powerful. What I mean by this is usually the pl will move huge weights but when it comes to general athleticism they are lacking. The olympic weightlifter will not be at the limit strength but will be at the top with regards to athleticism; meaning they will have better sprint times, higher verticals, change directions easier, etc.

As for vegetarian/veganism I think there was a worlds strongest man competitor that was vegetarian.

[Lonewolf]

I think what you are trying to describe is the difference between speed strength and limit strength; but really olympic weightlifters and powerlifters are closer together in their training than say bodybuilders. Powerlifters do many exercises for speed-strength involving bands, see Strength Online . As for strength without size, have a look at Exercise strength training kettlebell conditioning diet health ultimate fitness workout . Pavel has some interesting ideas, but at a certain point in training the only way to get stronger is to get bigger.

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

I think what you are trying to describe is the difference between speed strength and limit strength; but really olympic weightlifters and powerlifters are closer together in their training than say bodybuilders. Powerlifters do many exercises for speed-strength involving bands, see Strength Online . As for strength without size, have a look at Exercise strength training kettlebell conditioning diet health ultimate fitness workout . Pavel has some interesting ideas, but at a certain point in training the only way to get stronger is to get bigger.

Yeah in a sense. But weightlifters don't incorporate speed days, because in order to do the movements themselves you have to be speedy enough to descend underneath the barbell. It's surprising though, there are actual studies comparing olympic weightlifting to vertical jump programs and in the end the Olympic weightlifting group had a better vertical. Many people think about weightlifting and weight training in regards to muscle, but there are neural adaptations that are going on too that make weightlifting more suitable for sports and other endeavors.

[Lonewolf]

Well I'm not aware of any studies seeing how powerlifters go in other sports; though wrestlers, strongmen competitiors, hammer throwers etc, use powerlifting movements in their routines. Like all great athletes, the best powerlifters tend to be focused specialists rather than people into general fitness. I think weightlifting has its place, but heavy explosive movements with maximum flexion of the joints have a great potential to cause injury, especially to the knees and wrists.
All in all there is a general correlation between strength and athletic ability except when you get into endurance sports like marathon running which is the opposite.

[Wreck]

Originally Posted by Ibanez

It's surprising though, there are actual studies comparing olympic weightlifting to vertical jump programs and in the end the Olympic weightlifting group had a better vertical.

One of the body building forums had a thread where they were showing lifters jumping after they'd completed a good lift. Dang, were some of those cats JUMPING!

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Well I'm not aware of any studies seeing how powerlifters go in other sports; though wrestlers, strongmen competitiors, hammer throwers etc, use powerlifting movements in their routines. Like all great athletes, the best powerlifters tend to be focused specialists rather than people into general fitness. I think weightlifting has its place, but heavy explosive movements with maximum flexion of the joints have a great potential to cause injury, especially to the knees and wrists.
All in all there is a general correlation between strength and athletic ability except when you get into endurance sports like marathon running which is the opposite.

Nah, that's just guessing. I'm actually writing an article about the benefits of olympic weightlifting. I have a couple studies stating about the safety of the sport. The one study showed an injury rate of 1 per 168,000ish hrs compared to soccers 6 per 100hrs. I also have a study comparing olympic weightlifting to powerlifting for football training and the OL increased the vertical jump and decreased the 40 significantly more than the PL group.

People just think it terms of muscle, but really with OL you are training body to fire all the muscle fibers at one time.

One of the body building forums had a thread where they were showing lifters jumping after they'd completed a good lift. Dang, were some of those cats JUMPING!

Yeah, I've seen 40ish verticals a 53in box jump and other feats like that.

[Lonewolf]

Studies in exercise science are dubious at the best of times, because they generally use previously untrained college students as guinea pigs, so the results you get are how total beginners behave. Also the results tend to be very narrow and difficult to extrapolate to real situations. Youre ability to jump high on the spot in a study does not necessarily correlate to skill in football.
If you think that OL is relatively injury-free, just try doing it for a couple of months and get back to me (LOL!). The awkward joint angles, severe flexion and focus on single rep maximums take their toll.
The heavy compound movements in powerlifting also work the body as a whole and you will put on more size with heavy squats than any other exercise. Period. If you don't believe me, try it and measure yourself.

As an anecdote - I was never an athlete at school and came towards the end of most events, but I took up powerlifting in my early 20's and after about 3 years of that I joined the Army. We had a class of about 100 fit young cadets and we did a sprinting exercise one day, running about 300 metres. I came second, beating everyone by a very large margin except for the winner who had represented Australia in sprinting, had his own dedicated coach and had been trained in this specific area for years.

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Studies in exercise science are dubious at the best of times, because they generally use previously untrained college students as guinea pigs, so the results you get are how total beginners behave. Also the results tend to be very narrow and difficult to extrapolate to real situations. Youre ability to jump high on the spot in a study does not necessarily correlate to skill in football.

I think you are misunderstanding. Anyway, I'm not talking about football skill. I'm talking about athletic ability. There's a strong correlation with athletic ability and high vertical jumps and low 40m times.

If you think that OL is relatively injury-free, just try doing it for a couple of months and get back to me (LOL!). The awkward joint angles, severe flexion and focus on single rep maximums take their toll.

What are you talking about? Single reps are used to maintain technique but maximums isn't common in training. Awkward joint angles? How so?

[Lonewolf]

You are judged in olympic lifting by your ability to do a single rep max, so naturally that forms a significant part of training, though you don't have to do them at home if your wrists hurt too much!
OK - find a picture on the internet of a guy who has just finished the clean and is about to do the jerk. Check out the severe angle of his wrist to his forearm in order to have the bar resting on the front of his shoulders and chest.
Then, check out a picture of a guy in the bottom of the snatch position and note the angle of his knees which is well beyond parralell, with the hams touching the calves (considered absurdly dangerous in powerlifting, you never go below parrallel with heavy weights).
OL lifters use strong wrist straps and knee wraps to counter this, but seriously you need to be very well conditioned to complete lifts like that correctly and there will be plently of injuries throughout your career.