Low carb diet = no fruit?

[Manomanman]

So I found a diet that I decided to start on - the high protein, high monosaturated fat, low carb (esp. white carb) diet. It should include lots of veggies. No sweet drinks.

The one component I don't get is fruit: is it okay to eat fruit on this kind of diet? If so, how much? Fruits are fairly calorie-dense (70-90 per banana?), but they also contain a lot of fiber and vitamins. I'm wondering if eating fruit in moderation would be okay, ESPECIALLY for breakfest. I am a complete zombie in the morning until I get some fruit and raw nuts down my throat.

I'm assuming that juicing fruit would be off limits?

[DummyChef]

try to eat the fruits that have less sugar

[ginkgo]

If you are young, then you will survive. If you are not young, then you may die soon like Dr Atkins did. Excess protein is why Americans have so many cardiovascular problems including hypertension (high blood pressure). Read the article on protein on Health Related Articles.

Excess fat and carbs are turned to bodyfat. Excess protein needs to be destroyed and the by-products attack your arteries and cause an acid system causing osteoporosis and cancer. This is a great diet for depressed people who want to die since suicide is illegal, but eating this way is legal. 40% of Americans over age 40 have hypertension.

[Dreamline]

Dr Atkins died from complications of a subdural hematoma from falling on an icy sidewalk.

That being said, I wouldn't touch a low carb diet unless I was blood type O. In that case, it's ideal. Otherwise, there can be complications. Fairly serious ones.

As far as fruits, technically they are not low carb. There are some that are relatively lower in carbs but a banana has like 30 grams of carbs and that is more than a day's worth if you are on Atkins.

You didn't say if you are choosing this diet for general health purposes, like I use it for, or for weight loss.

But cutting out the white carbs is beneficial to everyone, though corn is good for blood type A and brown rice is good for everyone.

Jennifer

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Excess protein is why Americans have so many cardiovascular problems including hypertension (high blood pressure).

I'm not adding any extra protein to my diet from meat. I'm replacing white carbs with legumes, and I'm adding in extra nuts and vegetables over what I currently eat. I'm cutting out all sugar-based drinks as well.

I'll probably have to go nuts on the fruit (regardless of its sweetness), in order to maintain my sanity. I've decided not to juice it, just eat it to get the fiber. I think the extra fiber is key.

This is primarily for weight-loss, and I'm seeing if it improves my health (my health is pretty damn good atm).

I don't believe in vegetarianism or veganism.

[WhiteCrow]

Hey man, you are on the right track. Fruits are way overrated. If you go low carb, get all your carb from green veggies. They do way more for your health than fruits. A few more pointers:

- You go high monounsaturated, but please do not neglect the other fatty acids. Funny enough, in the absence of carbs, SATURATED fats become pretty healthy. Especially when you are weightlifting and trying to lose weight.

- Make sure you get enough fiber. I prefer eating broccoli for this. It contains also some stuff that helps you fight xenoestrogens (crap) in your system.

- Make one day a week high carb, and stuff yourself with fruit and carbs. This replenishes your glycogen stores and increases leptin levels, the hormone that says to your body that you are not starving and that it is okay to burn fat.

Happy fatburning!

[Susanna77]

I'm currently reading about The Zone diet by Dr. Barry Sears which seems very balanced so far and no where near the Atkins in terms of restrictions. Fruit is allowed on this one.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by WhiteCrow

- Make one day a week high carb, and stuff yourself with fruit and carbs. This replenishes your glycogen stores and increases leptin levels, the hormone that says to your body that you are not starving and that it is okay to burn fat.

Yes, I forgot to add that this was part of it. I've set aside Saturday to go batshit on the carbs.

Do you guys think brown rice and quinoa are okay? And if so, in what portions and how many days a week?

[funchy]

Just say No to fad diets.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Dr Atkins died from complications of a subdural hematoma from falling on an icy sidewalk.

Jennifer

That was in 2003. He had a serious heart condition (cardiomyopathy) since 2000 and had a heart attack (cardiac arrest) in 2002. When he fell, he was overweight. Technically he had a BMI of 27 when he fell. Over 24.9 is overweight. The Medical Examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension. Hypertension is one cause of cardiomyopathy. He was a cardiologist (heart doctor). He died at age 49, but had a serious heart condition since age 46.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Susanna77

I'm currently reading about The Zone diet by Dr. Barry Sears which seems very balanced so far and no where near the Atkins in terms of restrictions. Fruit is allowed on this one.

Dr Sears say that a high protein diet will help you lose weght but will also cause serious heart problems. That is why he has lower protein amount. Also he says that getting your protein from soy is a lot better for health than getting it from meat. He wrote The Soy Zone.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

If you are young, then you will survive. If you are not young, then you may die soon like Dr Atkins did. Excess protein is why Americans have so many cardiovascular problems including hypertension (high blood pressure). Read the article on protein on Health Related Articles.

Excess fat and carbs are turned to bodyfat. Excess protein needs to be destroyed and the by-products attack your arteries and cause an acid system causing osteoporosis and cancer. This is a great diet for depressed people who want to die since suicide is illegal, but eating this way is legal. 40% of Americans over age 40 have hypertension.

excess protein is not a problem; it is the excess meat that is the problem. in order to be healthy, one must have a balanced diet containing all the essential nutrients, which include the macronutrients--protein, good fats, and complex carbohydrates, and the micronutrients, such as magnesium, phytosterols, phosphorus, zinc, vitamin c, etc.

[scorpio1980]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

That was in 2003. He had a serious heart condition (cardiomyopathy) since 2000 and had a heart attack (cardiac arrest) in 2002. When he fell, he was overweight. Technically he had a BMI of 27 when he fell. Over 24.9 is overweight. The Medical Examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension. Hypertension is one cause of cardiomyopathy. He was a cardiologist (heart doctor). He died at age 49, but had a serious heart condition since age 46.

I don't know where you get your info, but Dr. Atkins was born in 1930, and died in 2003, making him 72 years old at death. Also the medical report released from the hospital where he was admitted after his fall states that he was 195lbs at 6'0'' tall. That is a bmi of 26.4, but who cares anyways BMI is a stupid way to measure health, it doesn't take into account muscle mass. I have a BMI of 26, which would mean i'm overweight slightly accourding to the bmi calculations, but i'm actually under 10% bodyfat, so BMI is pretty useless for the most part in determining a proper weight. I don't follow atkins diet, but I know it can be usefull if done properly. Too much protein is not good, but fat is an excellent macronutrient, the most important in my oppinion, so important that without it you can't use all your micronutrients, also so important it is used to develop our hormones, and the fact carbs happen to be the only thing we can live healthy without, or in limited supply. Again I don't support the diet, but I support the research, and logic behind much of Dr. Atkins ideas, and even though his diet has flaws I believe he was heading in the right direction.

[spongesuesquareskirt]

I love Dr. Atkins The anabolic diet (low carbs M-F w/ 1 or 2 carb up days) works great for some people. As soon as I eat too many carbs from any source, I feel like crap, so the low carb approach saved me from chronic fatigue and a whole host of other maladies. I also feel way better when I eat plenty of fats, including saturated fats.

However, many people do not handle low carb or high fat diets well at all and do better on vegetarian or low fat diets.

For fruit, you can have low glycemic ones in moderation. Just count rough carbs for the day and include them in your count. Carbs can be anywhere from 20-100 grams per day depending on how you feel. It usually takes at least a couple weeks to adjust to it.

Good low-sugar fruits are berries and melon.

You can also save your fruits for the carb up day. Another good time for higher carbs (like fruits) is right after you exercise.

Make sure to eat plenty of veggies - green ones are the best, but variety is always good.

Brown rice and quinoa are optional. They have a lot of carbs, so you can have a tiny bit per day and count their carb grams in your daily total, or you can save them for the carb up. It's good to vary the carb ups with a variety of carb foods. Some people respond better to healthy carbs while junk food actually speeds fat loss in others. Personally, I find a little alchohol like wine actually raises my metabolism when I have it on a carb day.

I eat things sweetened with Splenda or Stevia for cravings. There are tons of yummy healthy desserts you can make on your own. Some people can't handle artificial sweeteners, but I do OK with them, so I also use some products that have them.

Hope this answers some of your questions, but there's lots of good sites on the web with info, forums, vids, and recipes. Just Google "low carb" or "anabolic diet".

[Dreamline]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

That was in 2003. He had a serious heart condition (cardiomyopathy) since 2000 and had a heart attack (cardiac arrest) in 2002. When he fell, he was overweight. Technically he had a BMI of 27 when he fell. Over 24.9 is overweight. The Medical Examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension. Hypertension is one cause of cardiomyopathy. He was a cardiologist (heart doctor). He died at age 49, but had a serious heart condition since age 46.

Maybe we are talking about two different Robert Atkins....



Thursday, April 17, 2003 Posted: 1:48 PM EDT (1748 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Dr. Robert Atkins, creator of the high-protein, low-carbohydrate Atkins Diet, died Thursday after an accidental fall on April 8 left him comatose.

Atkins, 72, was rushed to New York Weill Cornell Medical Center by his colleague, Dr. Keith Berkowitz, where surgeons removed a blood clot to relieve pressure in his brain on April 9.
Atkins slipped on an icy sidewalk outside his New York office.

"We are hoping for a miracle," Richard Rothstein, a spokesman for Atkins told CNN April 11, "but the chances for a meaningful recovery are slim.

Atkins' original 1972 book, "Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution," was contrary to the recommendations of most nutritional experts at the time. While many remain skeptical about the Atkins Diet, it has become increasingly popular since the 1992 publication of his book, "Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution." ......


____________________

I believe he was once hospitalized for cardiomyopathy caused by an infection. But I have followed him closely for decades since his first book came out and he was not known for having any heart disease, per se. This explains a lot:

How Did Atkins Die - Death Of Dr. Robert Atkins

Jennifer

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

Dr Sears say that a high protein diet will help you lose weght but will also cause serious heart problems. That is why he has lower protein amount. Also he says that getting your protein from soy is a lot better for health than getting it from meat. He wrote The Soy Zone.

I am reading the Anti-Inflammation Zone because I've already been tested for inflammation and got it. However, I am allergic to Soy.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

So I found a diet that I decided to start on - the high protein, high monosaturated fat, low carb (esp. white carb) diet. It should include lots of veggies. No sweet drinks.

The one component I don't get is fruit: is it okay to eat fruit on this kind of diet? If so, how much? Fruits are fairly calorie-dense (70-90 per banana?), but they also contain a lot of fiber and vitamins. I'm wondering if eating fruit in moderation would be okay, ESPECIALLY for breakfest. I am a complete zombie in the morning until I get some fruit and raw nuts down my throat.

I'm assuming that juicing fruit would be off limits?

The reason why fruits are a no no on low carb diets is because of the fructose sugar in fruits. You have glucose and you have fructose. After an intense workout, you need to restore your muscle glycogen. Glucose can replenish up to 400 grams of glycogen. Fructose however cannot replenish muscle glycogen. It can only replenish liver glycogen, and this only holds about 40 grams. Since it was not used for energy in the workout,if not burnt as calories, fructose will be stored as adipose tissue (fat) This is why pro bodybuilders stay away from fruit

[Strawberry]

Before ditching the fruit, you may want to consider that fruit has phytonutrients that aid in burning fat by increasing the efficiency of metabolic-regulating glands. Phytonutrients found in fruit are phenols, limonoids, anthocyanins, cartenoids, and resveratrol. You can do your own research on what each of these do and in which fruits that are found. It may change your tune on eliminating entire food groups.

Orecle and Manomanman, you may wish to read this article. You will find it very helpful in attaining your diet and excercise goals: Fruits of your labor: many bodybuilders overlook fruit, one of the best food groups for muscle growth | Flex | Find Articles at BNET

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by funchy

Just say No to fad diets.

I second this

[joelr]

Fructose or fruit sugar is a slower absorbing sugar which makes it almost a complex carb but if you are going for maximum weight loss it should be avoided. You can get all the micro-nutrients from green veges, it won't hurt you to take a limited break from fruit.

Think of it like this - the idea is to get your body to turn into a fat burning machine. If you have sugar in you your body will burn that before it burns fat. You can trick your body into burning fat constantly by staying away from all sugar, even small amounts like the 12 grams in a glass of milk. Watch out for "health foods" like yogurt which has from 12-30 grams. For carbs stick to complex sources like brown rice and oatmeal.
At the ending phase of my diet I drop the carbs low eating only veges and a complex carb like a bowl of plain oatmeal with only 1-2 of the 6 daily meals.
This works really well and I lose 3-4 lbs weekly.

This is the bodybuilding diet. If you can't withstand carbs that low it's ok to include complex carbs with 4-5 of the 6 daily meals. I find once I lose a bunch of weight my motivation goes crazy high and I can tolerate the 50ish grams of carbs or even less. To get the last remaining fat off my lower abs and obliques the last week or 2 I have some no carb days. Not Akins however! The protein sources still remain fat free and the only fat intake is from flaxseed, primrose, olive oils and almonds. Super low carb is not needed unless your trying to get shredded.


Soy protein is low on the BV - biological value scale at around 70%.
Egg whites are 100% and whey is 110%.

[alexplatups]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

So I found a diet that I decided to start on - the high protein, high monosaturated fat, low carb (esp. white carb) diet. It should include lots of veggies. No sweet drinks.

The one component I don't get is fruit: is it okay to eat fruit on this kind of diet? If so, how much? Fruits are fairly calorie-dense (70-90 per banana?), but they also contain a lot of fiber and vitamins. I'm wondering if eating fruit in moderation would be okay, ESPECIALLY for breakfest. I am a complete zombie in the morning until I get some fruit and raw nuts down my throat.

I'm assuming that juicing fruit would be off limits?

first of all, what is the end result you want to achieve using this approach?
and where are you now in relation to this end result? for example if you
currently weigh 200 pounds and have 40% body fat and want to reach the
weight of 144 pounds with 20% body fat

second, to lose unwanted body fat, if this is your goal, all you need is to
burn more calories than you consume during the day, and obviously the
healthiest way to do it is to eat like a normal person, meaning to use a
balanced, moderate approach with about 50% of your daily calorie coming
from carbs (45% complex starchy/45% complex fibrous/10% fruit) with 30%
from lean protein or soya protein and 20% from good dietary fat (this can be
covered by eating salmon 3 times per week, walnuts and flaxseed oil)

then calculate your current TDEE taking into account your lean body mass
(for this you will have to have a body fat measurement done) and let's say
that your current daily maintenance calorie intake is 2500, divide these
calories into four meals, and eat them every four hours

that would be 625 calories per meal, and would come out to 78 grams of
carbs, 47 grams of lean protein and 14 grams of good dietary fat per meal

dietary fat is in many food sources so that means you would have to know
how many calories is in each food that you eat, and also the amount of
carbs, protein and fat in each food

plus instead of drinking beverages, it is to your advantage to drink water,
since it has no calories, and is the most important nutrient for your body
(our body is up to 70% water) this depends on your body fat, but still the
percentage of water in our body is higher than anything else, with protein
in the second place with about 20% of our weight

and last you have to use cardio and weight training regularly, cardio to burn
the highest possible amount of calories during the day, and weigh training
to maintain your current muscle, which will keep your metabolism elevated

and there is nothing wrong with fruit, it is a healthy food. During the weight
loss phase of a program it is not recommended to eat too much, since it is
a simple carb and is quickly absorbed into our bloodstream, but if you eat it
in the morning with lean protein and some complex carbs, they will slow down
the absorption and your insulin will remain steady

in the end, all you really need to create a lean, healthy body is to use
proper nutrition and exercise on a regular basis, and do not forget that the
reason human beings gain weight is because the body is simply too efficient
and does not need that many calories to sustain itself

and by the way our bodies are always burning both fats and carbs during
the day, the only difference is the amount it burns and the ratio in which
it burns it, this is very important to understand and I explain it on this page

How To Lose Weight Quickly, Fat Burning Facts, Create Your Ideal Weight

[Strawberry]

Originally Posted by alexplatups

plus instead of drinking beverages, it is to your advantage to drink water,
since it has no calories, and is the most important nutrient for your body
(our body is up to 70% water) this depends on your body fat, but still the
percentage of water in our body is higher than anything else, with protein
in the second place with about 20% of our weight

I stopped drinking juice and other sugary drinks because I figured that what my body was really craving was water and fruit.

Here's more about phytonutrients:

Fights inflammation, thus lowering cortisol levels (the stress hormone that leads to fat strorage around the belly area in particular)

increases liver's output of detoxifying enzymes by 244%

turns off fat storage genes and turns on those that cause fat-burn

boost satiety, so you tend to eat less and feel fuller

balances blood sugar

In my opinion, if fruits can do all of this, then who cares about the fructose. You'll burn it off anyway. Especially if you excercise.

The best fruits are:

All berries, cherries, grapes, kiwis, citruis fruits, all melons, avacados, apricots, mangoes, apples.

In addition, mangoes in particular can make you feel happier because they have tryptophan, an amino acid that gets turned into seratonin. That might just get you more motivated to excercise. I eat one mango a day and after a couple weeks of doing this, noticed a significnt difference in my mood. Try it.

[Manomanman]

What's the most nutrient-rich fruit that doesn't have a ton of fructose? I have to eat at least one fruit like this a day or I'll go completely insane. I'm a fruitaholic.

[andrew112]

Originally Posted by Manomanman

What's the most nutrient-rich fruit that doesn't have a ton of fructose? I have to eat at least one fruit like this a day or I'll go completely insane. I'm a fruitaholic.

well if you are a fruitaholic, then you are probably addicted to the glucose and fructose that the fruits contain; but if you want to know what the healthiest fruit is, which means the fruit that does not contain any sugars and is the most nutrient dense, then that fruit would be a lemon. lemons do not contain any sugars whatsoever, and they taste terrible, atleast when you first eat them. after a while, you might get used to them though. here is a word of caution though: do not eat more than one slice of a lemon a day; if you do, the enamel on your teeth will get scraped off.

[alexplatups]

TOTAL *SUGARS* *FRUCTOSE* *GLUCOSE* these quantities in grams

Pear (1 medium) 16 11 5
Watermelon (1 wedge) 18 12 6
Apple (1 medium) 14 9 5
Cantaloupe (1/2 melon) 22 12 10
Grapes (1 cup) 24 13 11
Strawberries (2 cups) 14 8 6
Raspberries (2 cups) 10 6 4
Pineapple (1 cup diced) 13 7 6
Honeydew melon (1 wedge) 13 7 6
Orange (1 medium) 12 6 6
Banana (1 medium) 18 9 9
Blueberries (1 cup) 14 7 7
Nectarine (1 medium) 10 5 5
Kiwi fruit (2 medium) 12 6 6
Cherries (1 cup) 14 6 8
Peach (1 medium) 8 3 5

[Manomanman]

Interesting info alex. Given this information, I wonder which would be best for fat loss?

[joelr]

Alex is advising 50% carbs which works on paper but in real life I think that would take a lot longer to lose weight. It took him 2 years to lose ~100 lbs which is great. With the lower carb, 6 small meals diet it takes about 6 months to drop 100 lbs. I used to do it every year.

The other poster is right about the fruit craving, it is a sugar thing. When you get off sugar those cravings go away.
It comes down to how fast you want to lose weight and how much you want to sacrifice. I understand that most people would rather lose weight a bit slower and still get to enjoy eating some sugar and never have to feel the low carb feeling.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by andrew112

excess protein is not a problem; it is the excess meat that is the problem. in order to be healthy, one must have a balanced diet containing all the essential nutrients, which include the macronutrients--protein, good fats, and complex carbohydrates, and the micronutrients, such as magnesium, phytosterols, phosphorus, zinc, vitamin c, etc.

The article says that the average American diet with all that meat has 5 times the protein needed. It also tells how the American Dietetic Association says that vegans eat twice the needed protein.

[ginkgo]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Maybe we are talking about two different Robert Atkins....



Thursday, April 17, 2003 Posted: 1:48 PM EDT (1748 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Dr. Robert Atkins, creator of the high-protein, low-carbohydrate Atkins Diet, died Thursday after an accidental fall on April 8 left him comatose.

Atkins, 72, was rushed to New York Weill Cornell Medical Center by his colleague, Dr. Keith Berkowitz, where surgeons removed a blood clot to relieve pressure in his brain on April 9.
Atkins slipped on an icy sidewalk outside his New York office.

"We are hoping for a miracle," Richard Rothstein, a spokesman for Atkins told CNN April 11, "but the chances for a meaningful recovery are slim.

Atkins' original 1972 book, "Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution," was contrary to the recommendations of most nutritional experts at the time. While many remain skeptical about the Atkins Diet, it has become increasingly popular since the 1992 publication of his book, "Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution." ......


____________________

I believe he was once hospitalized for cardiomyopathy caused by an infection. But I have followed him closely for decades since his first book came out and he was not known for having any heart disease, per se. This explains a lot:

How Did Atkins Die - Death Of Dr. Robert Atkins

Jennifer

I must have got the age probably from the birth date of the actor but all the other info was from that article. I had to compute the BMI myself. That article says "Cardiomyopathy makes it more likely that a person will have a cardiac arrest (heart stopping), which happened to him two years later." " The Medical Examiner's report had a hand-written note that Atkins had a history of myocardial infarction (heart attack), congestive heart failure, and hypertension..."

[Dreamline]

Oh well, I guess it depends on who you believe. And who's agenda you prefer.

But the author and inventor of the diet notwithstanding, people thrive on this diet. Now that the faddish aspects of it have passed, the people left doing it are the people that should be on it. Why? Because they are the ones who feel better eating this way, not worse.

People go off their diabetes medicine when they live this way. They lose weight (without surgery) when no other diet has ever worked. Their cholesterol goes down. They build muscle faster. They have more energy. Their arthritis disappears.

But it's not for everyone. In fact, unlike most of Atkin's people, I believe it can be dangerous for some people. Especially those that choose the unhealthier "bacon and eggs and cheese" version. But those people would choose the worst foods on a vegetarian diet too. Because they just don't make good choices.

It's difficult for some people to accept when they have their pet favorite diet but there is no one diet that is right for every person.

Jennifer